It’s become increasingly apparent in the last few days that the Dodgers have more problems than their lowly station in the standings, or as Derek Lowe put it, “The tension here is getting to the point where we have two different teams in [the clubhouse].”........
“The last two or three weeks we haven’t been on the same page as a team, and you can see what happens when that’s not the case.”
The Dodgers’ collapse down the stretch, Lowe said, “wasn’t because of a string of bad luck; it’s just not a lot of people pulling together in here.”
Luis Gonzalez, who has done everything he can to remain positive knowing this will be his final week in a Dodgers uniform, refused to bite his tongue Sunday, taking offense to Loney’s rebuke.
“Look at the back of his bubble-gum card, and all those numbers compiled over the years, which tell you how consistent [Kent] has been,” Gonzalez said, “and consistency is what gets you respect in this game.”
Lowe also said:
“What about next season? I’m going to be 35 . . . that’s a little unsettling for some guys who are under contract here. Do they already know the team they’re going to field is not going to be competitive next year?”
Wow…first Kent, now Gonzo & Lowe….look at all these veterans popping off. Hey…..it works for me if the Management & Veterans and the LA press pound the crap out of all their talented young players who have been PRODUCING.
ShoeGrit
Posted: September 24, 2007 at 06:25 PM |
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1. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: September 24, 2007 at 07:32 PM (#2540338)Let's see, September...
Lowe: 4 starts 7.08 ERA (5.51 since the all star break)
L-Gone: .245/.351/.449 in September, (.243/.309/.361 since the all star break)
Furcal: .210/.231/.258 in September
Kent .319/.373/.464 in September
Nomah: .333/.371/.485 in Sepetmber (greatly reduced PT)
Loney: .395/.441/.721 in September
Kemp: .358/.386/.507 in September
Or they need to bring back LoDuca to restore Dodger pride & clubhouse stability next year.
Lowe: 4 starts 7.08 ERA (5.51 since the all star break)
L-Gone: .245/.351/.449 in September, (.243/.309/.361 since the all star break)
Furcal: .210/.231/.258 in September
Kent .319/.373/.464 in September
Nomah: .333/.371/.485 in Sepetmber (greatly reduced PT)
Loney: .395/.441/.721 in September
Kemp: .358/.386/.507 in September
Let's see...
Lowe: White
L-Gone: Kind of White
Furcal: Hispanic
Kent: White
Nomah: Kind of White
Loney: Black
Kemp: Black
There. I said it.
Lowe: White
L-Gone: Kind of White
Furcal: Hispanic
Kent: White
Nomah: Kind of White
Loney: Black
Kemp: Black
Yeah, I noticed this, too, but I actually think it's management's fault. This discontent started last off season when the Dodgers blocked better players with veteran "goodness". I would not be surprised if there was a little Lastings Milledge effect going here, too, but I think this is more "office politics" than race related.
Part of being a real leader is knowing when to circle the wagons & throw the dudes w/out any tenure under the train.
I'll keep saying this hoping that it gets into the aether and finds it's way to Billy Beane's mind: Kemp to Oakland. Make it happen, Billy, make it happen!
Kemp AND Hu to Oakland ;)
Wow...I thought Loney was white all along.
Renteria for Kemp - get on the phone, Johnny boy.
Seriously, what would it take to get this done? Would Blanton be enough? I actually would hate to trade Cupcakes as he looks like he might be Livan Hernandez level indestructible and a pretty good pitcher to boot, but it would be worth it to get young and athletic at CF and SS. Besides, the Dodgers have Furcal and Pierre! What do they need these pesky rookies for?
Has Furcal said anything?
Loney: Black
What?
Kemp: Black
What?
I had no idea either of them was black. I should watch more Dodgers games.
Not that I know. I think he was being lumped in as part of the veterans who suck theme.
How is Kemp's defense in CF?
Good question. I've heard it's good but I haven't seen much of him, admittedly. If he's just average, I'd take it.
A lot of this has to fall on Little, I think, as Shooty said.
This appears to be Lowe, Gonzalez, and Kent making asses of themselves. The racial politics of summoning your two best young players, who happen to black, into the manager's office to tell them to respect the older players, who happen to be mainly white, even though it was the older players who ripped on the team first, and even though the young players have been great down the stretch... well, it smacks of completely incompetent management. Hell, even if both groups were completely integrated, it would smack of incompetent management.
And Grady Little is their skipper? Wow. Who knew.
Yes, nothing personal, I actually think Furcal has a greater shot at being productive in the 2008/09 than Lowe or L-Gone... but he's not helping right now.
I'd normally say that's overly harsh, but based upon L-Gone's own reported comments the past 2 years...
As would I. While I like Blanton and believe that he is underrated, 2 good young players at positions where the A's have black holes would great.
Actually the more I read and think about it, it sounds worse, Milton Bradley has his issues, but remember his attack on Kent? Most people simply dismissed it as Bradley misinterpreting Kent's overall boorishness into something more sinister-
but, while Kent is regarded (by black and white) as an anti-social ass- has he ever called out a white teammate?
Without a doubt. The LA Times sports' staff appears to be pulling the strings.
I'm surprised about Lowe. Kent is just being himself. Gonzo has been losing playing time - with his defense, he has to strongly outhit Ethier or Kemp to be as good as they are now. He has to realize that he'll have to play elsewhere next year.
I think Kent will be better than Abreu next season - but if Kent really is unhappy I'm sure the Dodgers can find somebody to take him. That would still leave the Dodgers with Furcal, Pierre and (unfortunately) Nomar as veteran presences, along with various pitchers.
Pity that Colletti wouldn't go that route, though.
Now Gonzo has burned another bridge, and given his age and declining production, I honestly can't imagine which team out there will give him another decent major league contract next year. He should sign up to be a part-time left fielder for the Orioles, that'll serve him right.
If you're the Dodgers though, what do you do? They should say bye to Gone-zo, trade Kent, and just hope to placate the rest of the "proven veterans" on the team for next year. Not sure what Lowe would have to say about that, or Schmidt, or Penny, for that matter, or even Loiaza (not that anyone cares what Loiaza says). If McCourt wanted to be truly ballsy, he'd trade every single malcontent in that clubhouse over the age of 30; he could get quite a bit for Kent and Lowe this offseason.
I always liked the guy well enough, but seeing him say something dumb doesn't surprise me.
Yep. In fact, the reason he and Bonds had their famous dugout fight was because Kent was calling out David Bell and Bonds was sticking up for Bell.
I thought that the clubhouse was a (relative) strength of Little's; at least in Boston. You just didn't want the guy in a chessmatch.
This year. Well, sorta. The club has options for 2008 and 2009.
If you're the Dodgers though, what do you do?
Well, they could just decline Kent's option, and there's no reason not to just let Gonzo walk. As for placating the other veterans, screw that. Colletti should be responding to every one of these hatchet jobs by calmly but persistently pointing out just who is playing well and who is playing like crap. The stats make it clear that the old guys are really just pissed because they suck. Except for Kent. He's just pissed because he's always pissed.
Cot's says they picked up Grady's 2008 option in March 2007.
No GM in a team "owned"* by Frank McCourt would ever slag the slackers for fear of firing. In case you haven't noticed, the McCourts are mighty quick to axe anyone who appears to be a fount of bad news, regardless of the accuracy of that point.
*"Owned" in quotes because the capital involved mostly remains an asset of the banks that loaned it to him, and/or News Corp.
Why? He's a Grade-A jerk.
iirc, it was picked up automatically once he hit a certain amount of playing time this season.
But he'd be tradeable - he's still a good player, and a contender with a hole at second would probably be glad that they got him - for one year.
And that would save money for another established vet - say, ARod at third base.
Well it's not just that, most veteran athletes really believe that their experience, their veteran presence, means something, that it has tangible benefits in the W-L column. So a veteran hitting .275 is regarded (by himself and by the vast majority of his peers) as contributing more than a rookie hitting .275 (or even .290).
The veteran makes fewer mistakes (or so they believe), he always knows how many outs, where to position himself, how to anticipate what the opponent will do, the veteran won't choke when the count is 0-2 with 2 outs in the 9th. When the veteran loafs he has good reason (a tight hammy he doesn't want to strain etc. etc.)
The veteran has earned respect simply by being trough many seasons.
They believe all of this. And for some players some of it may even be true too, of course Lowe, Kent and L-Gone are going out of their way to demonstrate that it's not true for them.
Plaschke & Simers on the A-Rod beat would make the baseball blogosphere explode in an orgy of joy and snark (and would probably turn A-Rod beneficially homicidal).
Huh, I missed that somehow. That sucks.
Kent was calling out David Bell
Hmm, Kent may have a good side after all.
Specifically, Kent was yelling at Bell trying to scapegoat him for a defensive mistake Kent himself made (he threw to the wrong base without making sure someone was there, and then was blaming Bell for not being there, if I remember correctly).
I'm pretty sure that News Corp is out of the picture - he sold the famous parking lot in Boston to pay off that debt.
He does have a mortgage on the team, of course - but since the Dodgers just broke their attendance record despite a major increase in ticket prices this past season, I don't think that's an issue. Frankly, the loans are at a low enough interest rate that it would be foolish to pay them off too quickly, rather than use any extra money for other investments - and in fact, McCourt has been putting a lot of money into the stadium (which is why the Dodgers are setting attendance records despite significantly higher average ticket prices).
Dictates his own playing time in the press
Threw hissy fit when asked to sit for one game
Bad Mouthed the d backs at Every possible turn
As far as I'm concerned, the problems the Dodgers have are 100% Ned Colletti's fault. He is the one who put together this flawed roster and stupidly blocked Kemp and Loney, and certainly was part of the decision to start Billingsley in the Pen. I mean, did they expect Loney and Kemp to arrive here without attitudes? I'm sure they have a role in this and their behavior has not been above reproach in the dugout or locker room. They just haven't been nearly as bad as these loudmouthed idiot "Proven Veterans" who despite all their years of experience, are simply exposed as petty and self centered.
I have not seen or heard a peep out of Nomar by the way. Has he been quiet all season?
The only problem with Nomar this season has been his play. He was willing from the moment he signed his contract to move to third to make room for Loney, and had no public problem at least with suddenly being moved in the middle of the year after being told repeatedly that they didn't want to move him in the middle of the year.
[Caveat: Not A Lawyer]
Here's the definition. It looks like first degree is done with the intent to kill, second degree involves a potentially deadly weapon, and third degree is perpetrated upon a police officer or public servant of any kind. Fourth degree is any assault that's not covered by one of the above.
Schmidt, Furcal, Kent, Lowe, Garciaparra, Penny, Pierre & Loaiza.
Their opening day payroll this year was listed as 108 million on Cotts, with approx another 15 million going to other players.
It will be interesting to see how much they spend in 2008.
Whoa, that's a lot for Neal Cotts. He's really only had one good year, and he doesn't even play for the Dodgers.
Fun story from when Lowe was with Boston. Me and my friends went to a Royals/Red Sox game in KC. It was raining enough that the people behind the Red Sox dugout left, but not enough to cause a rain delay, so we gladly took their seats. Throughout the game Lowe would be standing on the top step of the dugout, making him clearly visible to us and therefore fair game for heckling. We didn't know who he was at the time, so we just kept calling him Bret Saberhagen, knowing full well that he was not Bret Saberhagen (although this was around the time when Sabes was with the Sox). Being Royals fans, we were fully aware of the Royals sucktitude and made frequent tongue-in-cheek comments about how much trouble the Sox were in and how they were going to get pounded. Of course the Red Sox began pounding the Royals and we made a pitching change, bringing in the immortal Blake Stein. We shouted things along the lines of "You are screwed now!! Here comes Blake Stein!" The joke was obviously over Lowe's head because he responded with "OOOOO BLAKE STEIN!!" and then repeated it when Stein gave up a bases loaded double (or something like that) and turned around and threw sunflower seeds at us. He also proceeded to tell us that we only came out to the game for the fireworks (KC has fireworks Fridays) and called my friend "Fattycakes" (which is easily one of the best things I have ever heard at a baseball game). Since then I have always like Lowe, not becuase he is good or even likeable, just because that was one of the most fun games I have ever been to.
Loney clearly has some African ancestry, but is rather light-skinned. Both Loney and Kemp are lighter-skinned than several of the Latino players on the team. And Russell Martin's racial/ethnic background is ... ? I don't even know, looking at him. (Other than that we know he's Canadian.) Someone called Gonzo and Nomar "sort of white." Maybe Loney and Martin are "sort of black."
But the old guys (who used to be stars) versus young guys (who should have gotten more playing) doesn't cut cleanly across racial lines, what with the white Broxton and Billingsley and the black Pierre. (Not that Pierre seems to have said anything.)
His dad was a saxophonist who used to play in the Montreal subway stations to get money between gigs.
Interestingly, this column had less of Simers's usual brand of ugly personal snark. One suspects that like most cowards, he doesn't really want a confrontation and is backing off now that things are actually bad on the team. It's one thing to bait and antagonize players when things are generally okay, it's a little scarier to do so when people are legitimately pissed off.
A non-Simers and Plaschke article
Some of the guys that you see around that are young are a little cocky," said pitcher David Wells, at 44 the oldest Dodger, yet one of the few who has moved comfortably between both sides in a split clubhouse. "But you know what? They're going to get humbled. And when they do, they'll switch their attitude. It's not my place and time to tell people how to act. But I pay attention.David Wells - surprisingly a voice of reason.
Before a game on the last homestand, an attendant placed a trash can too close to Kemp's locker in the Dodgers' crowded clubhouse. But when the outfielder got up to move it, one veteran complained aloud -- but not to Kemp -- about how rookies today are different from those of the past.
Well, it's obvious that the rooks are being unreasonable </sarcasm>
Gonzalez, meanwhile, is batting 51 points lower in the second half than he did in the first, a slump that has resulted in more playing time for Ethier and Kemp. That's led to some grumbling from Gonzalez and this comment from Loney:
"Somebody comes up behind you and tries to take your job, you have two choices: You're going to give it up, or you're going to bust your [rear] to be the best," said Loney, who said he wasn't talking about anyone in particular.[
I don't know why Gonzo - who played terribly for nearly two months - would take offense. Obviously, he should be guaranteed a spot regardless of his performance. Especially since his veteran presence is significantly worse defensively than Kemp and Ethier.
The point of the article is that the rookies are probably less humble than was the case years ago - but the vets haven't actually performed at a level that justified them complaining about losing playing time to better performers.
BTW - I've said this before. Yes, the kids have made some mental mistakes - but so has Kent, despite his veteran awesomeness. Including being thrown out at third for the third out - repeatedly. And I say this as a big Kent fan.
I wouldn't be surprised, either, if they're funneling some money to these columnists.
Luis Gonzalez - 188 PA, 5 2B, 5 HR
Micah Owings - 31 PA, 4 2B, 4 HR
Get rid of Grady ASAP, install somebody with a brain and a sack, Buy-out/staple to bench Pierre/Nomar, trade Furcal, let Gonzo walk, and tell Kent to shut the F!@# up.
Juan Pierre on the bench wouldn't be entirely useless. His fielding is somewhat decent, and he can swipe a bag. Nomar is completely useless though. If I were Ned, I'd just buy-out Nomar, and staple Pierre to the bench.
Jeff Kent is too productive to get rid of. Derek Lowe is on his last year anyway, if somebody wants to give up somebody good for him, take it, but he'll only be there for one more year.
Furcal's been injured - it's not the same as those others. If there's not the collision in spring training giving him a nagging injury, he's likely one of the better shortstops in the league.
Gonzo was brought in on a one year contract - I don't see him back. Pierre, unfortunately, will be around for four more years. Nomar will be back too - although he might bounce back some.
At this stage I wouldn't mind Kent being traded, if he won't shut up.
Actually I think the current wave of "veteran nastiness" is a return to the old, pre-Marvin Miller player soldidarity era.
Many veterans despised rookies/minor leaguers- the rookies wanted their jobs, their livelihood. MLBers always made "good" money, not enough to retire for life as a rich man- but enough to be "comfortable". Rookies and minor leaguers brought up in ST were threats- rookies could take your job or your friend's job- career minor leaguers were for all but the superstars an uncomfortable "there but for the grace of god go I" reminder.
MLB Veterans had a vested interest in drawing a brightline distinction between themselves and EVERYONE else who played baseball- and generation after generation, interviews after interviews they played that up.
Oh, and when asked who he hung around with outside of the clubhouse, he explicitly mentioned Joe Beimel and Brad Penny, along with the other young guys. So at least some vets have bridged the gap. I wonder how much of that is marital status, though?
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