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Friday, May 09, 2008

tHom Brenneman and Chris Welch May or May Not Be Child Pornographers

Oh, hello. What’s that? You want me to back up my claim that tHom Brenneman and Chris Welch may or may not be child pornographers? Why should I? tHom and Chris weren’t forced to back up their completely ludicrous implication Monday night on a live baseball broadcast that Cub stud catcher Geovany Soto has used performance-enhancing drugs.

THOM: You look at his career numbers, I’m talking about his minor league numbers, he just came to the majors for the first time this season. And you wonder, you know, where did all of this offense all of a sudden come from Geovany Soto?…You look at his minor league numbers, .260 one year, .269, .242, .271, .253…he had never hit more than nine home runs in a minor league season..NINE, until last year when he hit TWENTY-SIX in Triple-A Iowa and hit .353. Now all of a sudden, in his first full-year in the major leagues, granted it’s only a month and a week, but he’s hitting almost .340 and leads the Cubs in runs batted in with 24.

CHRIS: I don’t mean this in a bad way, but before steroid testing, you see a blip in the radar like that you say, well..

THOM: Right…

CHRIS: …one of the possibilities might be he’s juicing, but obviously that’s not the case anymore, everyone’s tested. And you know that doesn’t happen very much with baseball players because usually, whether it’s at the minor league level or the major league level, by the time you’re 28 or so…I’m not sure how old Soto is…he’s only 25, you reach a certain plateau of productivity. You pretty much stay within range. Maybe now that he’s getting closer to the prime of his career…around…he’s 25, so it’ll be a couple years until he’s in that…but maybe he’s reaching a new plateau.

THOM: Well another guy that was similar to that was Sammy Sosa…now people can accuse Sosa of “did he do this or did he do that”. To my knowledge he’s never been tested in a positive way for any kind of steroids, whether people believe or not he did is an entirely different question.

But the point being, that Sosa was one of those guys coming up through the White Sox organization who never hit many home runs, then all of a sudden got to the big leagues and started knocking the cover off the ball.

More demoronic Brenneman antics here…at The Cub Reporter.

Repoz Posted: May 09, 2008 at 10:19 AM | 40 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: announcers, media, television

Reader Comments and Retorts

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Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. CFiJ Posted: May 09, 2008 at 11:49 AM (#2774400)
What are non-Cubs fans impressions about the Cubs announcers? I only got to see Kasper and Brenly for part of 2005. My recollection of Chip Caray and Steve Stone was they were rather "self-absorbed" - focusing on how great the Cubs were when they were going good, and how bad they were when they sucked. Which might be certainly be annoying, but probably not as much as the above crap. I don't recall them ever dwelling on the other team very much, much less being critical. But I suspect my ear is biased.
   2. andrewberg Posted: May 09, 2008 at 11:54 AM (#2774404)
They didn't accuse Soto of using PEDs, they simply said he is just as likely to be on the juice as Sammy Sosa. Oh, wait...
   3. They paved Misirlou, put up a parking lot Posted: May 09, 2008 at 12:03 PM (#2774409)
THOM: Well another guy that was similar to that was Sammy Sosa…now people can accuse Sosa of “did he do this or did he do that”. To my knowledge he’s never been tested in a positive way for any kind of steroids, whether people believe or not he did is an entirely different question.

But the point being, that Sosa was one of those guys coming up through the White Sox organization who never hit many home runs, then all of a sudden got to the big leagues and started knocking the cover off the ball.


Minor quibble, Sosa came up through the Rangers organization, not the Sox.

Second, how many homers is a skinny 18 year old from the DR supposed to hit? Sammy hit 11 in 519 ABs in A ball, 9 in 507 in A+, 7 in 273 in AA, and then was in the majors more or less for good. His teenage minor league HR rate is about the same as Miguel Cabrera's
   4. AROM Posted: May 09, 2008 at 12:05 PM (#2774410)
Soto rules. My favorite fantasy pick of 2008. Two years ago I thought I could wait on catcher eligible Josh Willingham till the end of the auction, found out I wasn't the only one, and got outbid. This year I made sure to get Soto early.
   5. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: May 09, 2008 at 12:18 PM (#2774413)
TB (love the initials) did the same thing with Bill Hall. To his credit Ned Yost took those remarks to task to the press before next day's game and before the third game in the series Thom somewhat backtracked saying on the air that his comments had been misconstrued. It wasn't a bigger deal only because as with Soto the knucklehead had couched things "just so". But you would have to have been dumb as a dead man to not understand what was being suggested.

Hall drives Reds fans AND their announcing teams crazy because he is perceived as a "nobody player" who "kills" the Reds. That and Cincy has a complex about Milwaukee in general as they routinely make disparaging comments about the city, the size of the citizens and anything else handy.

When I visit relatives in Cincy and turn on WLW the promos for upcoming games is always some guy in a deep, pro-wrestling ad style making some rude remark about the opposition and how the Reds will CRUSH THEM.

THe locals must like it. I have heard now for over five years.
   6. Spahn Insane Posted: May 09, 2008 at 12:58 PM (#2774432)
Personally, I think the Reds' very own Gabor Paul II Bako should be investigated, given his stats this year.
   7. Metman died today. Or yesterday maybe, Posted: May 09, 2008 at 01:25 PM (#2774455)
Thom Brenneman is the single biggest piece of #### associated with MLB. I cannot wish enough plagues and pestillence upon him.
   8. TDF, situational idiot Posted: May 09, 2008 at 01:29 PM (#2774458)
Wow. What a couple of asshats. Pretty damning stuff....

Except that Welsh says:
one of the possibilities might be he’s juicing, but obviously that’s not the case anymore, everyone’s tested.


But why let someone's actual words get in the way?
   9. AJMcCringleberry Posted: May 09, 2008 at 01:41 PM (#2774475)
might be he’s juicing, but obviously that’s not the case anymore, everyone’s tested

Well, I'm glad that's settled.
   10. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: May 09, 2008 at 01:47 PM (#2774479)
TDF:

Welsh is semi-reasonable. But Thom is a doof.
   11. Hack Wilson Posted: May 09, 2008 at 01:51 PM (#2774485)
I think Thom's (sp.?) putting Sosa in the Sox farm system instead of the Rangers' is likely
(a)another attempt at white-washing the corrupt Bush regime,
(b)considering the innuendo about Soto, an unfair attack on the City of Chicago,
(c)the ravings of a crack-addled moron,
(d)coverup of an Arlington, Texas child pornography business or
(e)all of the above
   12. Repoz Posted: May 09, 2008 at 01:55 PM (#2774489)
Thom Brenneman is top three worstest going...and how his old-man didn't pistol whip him with a four-by-two is ####### beyond me.

See how confuded I get from his auntics!
   13. Toolsy McClutch Posted: May 09, 2008 at 02:02 PM (#2774496)
A**hat is the insult of a 12yo. Crapping the sheets is all the way up to 15.

Pop culture is retarded sometimes.
   14. TDF, situational idiot Posted: May 09, 2008 at 02:13 PM (#2774506)
Welsh is semi-reasonable. But Thom is a doof.


I agree. I'm still disappointed that Welsh and Grande have been given the backseat since tHom and Brantley came to town.

But look at the progression here:

1. tHom - Soto's hitting like he never has before.
2. Welsh - Obviously it's not steroids, but it is unusual for someone to jump that much.
3. tHom - Just like Sosa, who "(t)o my knowledge never been tested in a positive way for any kind of steroids."

And from this, we get "tHom and Chris are saying Soto uses steroids".
   15. McCoy Posted: May 09, 2008 at 02:21 PM (#2774518)
Thom is gay, not that there is anything wrong with that.
   16. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: May 09, 2008 at 02:27 PM (#2774525)
TDF:

It "reads" one way. TB delivers it in a rather accusatory manner. I heard the same thing with Bill Hall. He didn't "say it". But he "said it".

Which, of course, makes TB even more of a distasteful individual. At least with Marty you hear the primal scream as he impales you with the knife. His son sort of saunters by and slips it between your ribs.
   17. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: May 09, 2008 at 02:34 PM (#2774538)
TDF, don't skip over this part:

one of the possibilities might be he’s juicing

Thats from chris.
   18. TDF, situational idiot Posted: May 09, 2008 at 04:02 PM (#2774629)
TDF, don't skip over this part:
one of the possibilities might be he’s juicing
Thats from chris.


Here's the whole sentence, without tHom's interruption:

I don’t mean this in a bad way, but before steroid testing, you see a blip in the radar like that you say, well…one of the possibilities might be he’s juicing, but obviously that’s not the case anymore, everyone’s tested.
   19. TDF, situational idiot Posted: May 09, 2008 at 04:20 PM (#2774655)
Hall drives Reds fans AND their announcing teams crazy because he is perceived as a "nobody player" who "kills" the Reds.


Well, he is. Against the rest of baseball, he's a .255/.311/.442 hitter who steals bases at a 57% clip and drives in a run every 7.5 AB; vs. the Reds, he's better than Adam Dunn at the plate - .308/.374/.631, steals bases at a 71% rate, and drives in a run every 5 AB. And before you say "sample size", consider that he has more PA against the Reds than any other team, and his OPS is 200 or more points lower against every other division rival. He has hit better against Detroit, Anaheim, and Seattle, but in a total of 37 PA (hell, throw in Toronto, and make it an even 50 PA).

He has been deemed president of the "Annoying Little Sh!ts" at redreporter.
   20. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: May 09, 2008 at 04:27 PM (#2774659)
TDF has been deemed lifetime czar of "Annoying Little Sh!ts" at BTF.
   21. TDF, situational idiot Posted: May 09, 2008 at 04:51 PM (#2774685)
And that's the last personal attack I'll take around here.

Go #### yourself.
   22. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: May 09, 2008 at 05:04 PM (#2774696)
And now I picture a mound being charged and angry bodies flying out of dugouts and a half drunk announcer slurring the word "brouhaha"...
   23. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: May 09, 2008 at 05:28 PM (#2774722)
TDF:

That's all cute and everything, but last I checked the Reds were in the National League. So what Bill Hall does against the Reds counts.

Sorry. That's how it works.

I now have a better understanding as to the Cincinnati mentality of constantly needing to demean the opposition.
   24. Greg Pope thinks the Cubs are reeking havoc Posted: May 09, 2008 at 05:37 PM (#2774727)
That's all cute and everything, but last I checked the Reds were in the National League. So what Bill Hall does against the Reds counts.

Sorry. That's how it works.


Wait a second here. TDF didn't say that it didn't count. He said that Bill Hall is mediocre against everybody except the Reds, and showed the stats. What's the problem? In fact, you don't even need the "sample size" caveat. If Hall has really been that much better against the Reds, then the fans will be "driven crazy" by that kind of player. It's not a cutdown of Hall to point it out.
   25. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: May 09, 2008 at 05:43 PM (#2774732)
Greg:

Understood. But TDF's information is not new. Reds fans/Brewer fans know this stuff. Most of us just pass this off as being one of the quirks of the game. But in Reds territory, as TDF mentions with a well-known Reds blog, it goes beyond that.

The background element is the Reds announcing team AND the marketing team of WLW that present Hall as an offense before God for hitting well against the Reds.

It's tedious. And then add in what I mentioned earlier about one of the announcers all but accusing Bill of "juicing" and it gets beyond tedious.

It becomes odious.

I get it. Bill's a blah player.

EXCEPT.

And I will continue to enjoy the exceptions for Thommy boy's sake..........
   26. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: May 09, 2008 at 05:48 PM (#2774738)
And that's the last personal attack I'll take around here.

But you have no problem with personal attacks on MLB players?

What are you going to do to prevent personal attacks on yourself around here? I believe there is only one solution for that.
   27. Spahn Insane Posted: May 09, 2008 at 06:23 PM (#2774789)
1. tHom - Soto's hitting like he never has before.
2. Welsh - Obviously it's not steroids, but it is unusual for someone to jump that much.
3. tHom - Just like Sosa, who "(t)o my knowledge never been tested in a positive way for any kind of steroids."



Similarly, I'm sure they admire Soto for his having stopped beating his wife.
   28. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: May 09, 2008 at 06:33 PM (#2774802)
Similarly, I'm sure they admire Soto for his having stopped beating his wife.

You've nailed it. Bringing up steroids in the context of Soto's performance was bush league. It's one thing for jackasses in a bar to do it, but professional baseball announcers should know better. The only thing they didn't say was that Soto was an honorable man.
   29. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory) Posted: May 09, 2008 at 06:34 PM (#2774807)
#27's funny post reminds me of The Simpson's episode where Lisa said grace: "Lord, have mercy on my soul, and Mom's <u>soul</u>, and Dad's <u>soul</u>, and Maggie's <u>soul</u>." You keep saying "steroids" and eventually even the dumbest listener gets the idea.
   30. Bad Doctor Posted: May 09, 2008 at 07:13 PM (#2774851)
THOM: You look at his career numbers, I’m talking about his minor league numbers, he just came to the majors for the first time this season. And you wonder, you know, where did all of this pitching all of a sudden come from Edinson Volquez?…You look at his minor league numbers, 4.10 ERA one year, 3.71, 3.67…he had never hit more than a strikeout per inning in a minor league season.. until last year when he has a 1.41 ERA in Triple-A Oklahoma City and 66 Ks in 51 innings. Now all of a sudden, in his first full-year in the major leagues, granted it’s only a month and a week, but he’s got a 1.06 ERA and leads the Reds in strikeouts with 52.

Wait, I'm sorry, it's the Reds' announcers ... they'll eat their own at the drop of a hat.
   31. base ball chick Posted: May 09, 2008 at 07:34 PM (#2774877)
i listened to part of the astros game with the reds announcers.

marty is a vicious, hateful, spiteful ****
i mean until i heard him i was POSITIVE that hawk harrelson was the worst EVAH

i'm not exactly a fan of milo and his 2 moron sidekicks, but i sure nuff am grateful that at LEAST they ain't marty. or mark grace. or the philly guys (who hate each other like poison - i don't think the "jane you ignerint slut" talk they throwing was in fun)
   32. Sparkles Peterson Posted: May 09, 2008 at 07:53 PM (#2774897)
Except that Edinson Volquez has had a couple of dominating starts, after a minor league career which indicated he would be a good major league pitcher. Soto isn't a guy with a good start to the season, he's a guy who had no power coming into '07 (Career .109 ISO) who has been able to sustain a .400+ ISO and a top-tier HR/FB rate for a season and a quarter now. Something has changed suddenly for Soto, or we are in the midst of the statistical fluke of all time. It's something that deserves to be wondered over.

Basically, Cubs fans are jumping all over Brenneman on the presumption that he was implying steroid use, and Welch because they are too stupid to realize he said that isn't the reason.
   33. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: May 09, 2008 at 07:54 PM (#2774899)
But you have no problem with personal attacks on MLB players?


Where does TDF say that, BLB? He's saying they weren't attacks, at least by Welch. And based on Welch's full remarks, which you seem to be ignoring, they most certainly weren't an attack on Soto.

TB's remarks aren't as clear cut, and I'd agree with Harveys that the tone goes along way to determining what he meant. But Welch's remarks, as presented by TDF, don't accuse Soto of using.
   34. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: May 09, 2008 at 07:58 PM (#2774903)
But in Reds territory, as TDF mentions with a well-known Reds blog, it goes beyond that.

HW, I really think you're taking what's said about Hall by Reds fans and media the wrong way. It's more like "boy, Hall's really got our number" rather than "his OPS against the Reds affronts Him."

And I don't see Cincinnati's hatred for Milwaukee as you describe it. They've been division rivals for a relatively short period of time during which the Brewers haven't been great. If there's vitriol directed at any other Midwestern city it's towards St. Louis, with their numerous division titles and supposed "best fans in baseball."
   35. vortex of dissipation Posted: May 09, 2008 at 08:00 PM (#2774905)
I'm a diehard Reds fan, but the Reds' announcers constantly make me embarrassed to be one...
   36. SouthSideRyan Posted: May 09, 2008 at 08:06 PM (#2774912)
Basically, Cubs fans are jumping all over Brenneman on the presumption that he was implying steroid use, and Welch because they are too stupid to realize he said that isn't the reason.


#27 summed things up perfectly but Cardinals fans are too stupid to understand the reference.

Hey! This is fun!!
   37. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: May 09, 2008 at 08:08 PM (#2774914)
who has been able to sustain a .400+ ISO and a top-tier HR/FB rate for a season and a quarter now.

ISO is calculated by subtracting AVG from SLG. He had a 299 ISO at AAA last year, had a 278 in limited MLB time last year, and so far has a 300 in MLB this year. It is amazingly high, but no need to exaggerate.

Where does TDF say that, BLB?

He echoes a personal attack on Bill Hall from another web site. If he wasn't spreading personal attacks on Hall, I wouldn't have gotten cute and used it on him.

And based on Welch's full remarks, which you seem to be ignoring, they most certainly weren't an attack on Soto.

Whatever. Just by bringing up the "oh, we may have thought about steroids before, but obviously that is not true with testing nowadays" he is smearing him.

or what #27 said.
   38. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: May 09, 2008 at 08:11 PM (#2774916)
I'm not a Cubs fan! Take that back! I may be stupid, but a Cubs fan I have never been.
   39. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 09, 2008 at 08:23 PM (#2774930)
Here's the whole sentence, without tHom's interruption:

I don’t mean this in a bad way, but before steroid testing, you see a blip in the radar like that you say, well…one of the possibilities might be he’s juicing, but obviously that’s not the case anymore, everyone’s tested.
It's impossible to interpret that from the transcript. The "obviously that's not the case anymore" could be entirely legitimate, or it could have been something like, "Nobody in the NFL uses steroids, obviously, since everyone's tested" -- in other words, complete sarcasm.
   40. Sparkles Peterson Posted: May 09, 2008 at 08:49 PM (#2774957)
Mistake, I meant .400+ BABIP.

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