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Wednesday, January 16, 2013

Those Goddamn Sandy Hook Truthers Got Their Hooks In Denard Span

If you don’t know what a Sandy Hook Truther is, take a moment to read Max Read of Gawker’s illuminating look into their strange world. Basically, they are people who believe that the Sandy Hook shooting was actually some kind of elaborate hoax perpretrated by the government, because everything is an elaborate hoax perpetrated by the government in the eyes of these crazies. YouTube videos alleging such a hoax have been popping up all over the internet, poisoning the minds of people like Washington Nationals center fielder Denard Span.

Pay no attention, Span.

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: January 16, 2013 at 10:49 PM | 369 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: denard span, gun control, nationals, sandy hook, truthers, twins

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   101. Bourbon Samurai in Asia Posted: January 17, 2013 at 02:02 PM (#4349181)
I think people should really respect the Jim's wishes and not discuss political matters outside of the OT-P thread.

There's also no real reason for this article to be posted, given those guidelines.


I thought it was ok as long as such articles are marked OTP? This probably should have been, but it was also quite obvious what this thread was going to be. If articles like this are approved, the discussion is going to go political.

If there was some article that was about Span's position in the lineup and people brought this into it, then that might be innapropriate
   102. Nasty Nate Posted: January 17, 2013 at 02:08 PM (#4349185)
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you
   103. valuearbitrageur Posted: January 17, 2013 at 02:15 PM (#4349192)
And the best part is these idiots are armed to the teeth with automatic weapons so when the finally lose their very tenuous grip on reality, the can take a shopping center worth of people down with them.


You can't kill a shopping center worth of people with an automatic weapon.

Not until we have effective gun control at least, otherwise there will always be a few wackos carrying their own guns shooting back and slowing you down.
   104. dr. scott Posted: January 17, 2013 at 02:18 PM (#4349194)
It would surprise me to find out that the secret of the conspiracy was kept for 30+ years, and there isn't any real tangible evidence that was discovered before then.
(And I don't mean confessions by people who can provide zero proof.)


Lance was able to do it for 20 years, though noone started asking questions till 1999, so really 13 years. The problem is the people who know rarely have proof, just experience that can be refuted. So there is at least one example of being able to keep things "quiet enough" for over 10 years... and if he had stayed retired, my guess is the people saying he cheated would have remain marginalized.
   105. The Good Face Posted: January 17, 2013 at 02:23 PM (#4349198)
Did you read Black Hawk Down? There's a reason the Delta Force, and all the other SF gravitate to M-14s and variants, and those weapons have made a major comeback in the wars of the last decade. Both kill, but full calibre rifles disable faster. That's why they hunt deer with .30 cal.


I've read Black Hawk Down; there's nothing there that justifies such a massive and expensive change in US military equipment. It's anecdotal stories from justifiably overwhelmed men in incredibly stressful conditions.

Delta Force and other SF operators are highly trained elite forces and they largely are permitted to select their own equipment already. Most soldiers are NOT Delta Force; they don't have the aptitude or the training, and they don't undertake the same sort of missions. What makes sense for Delta doesn't necessarily make sense for non-elite infantry.

You're right about heavier rifles and ammo (thought this is severely mitigated by the fact that most US infantry is motorized or mechanized), but you are dead wrong about accuracy. An M-14/M-1A1 is more accurate to far longer distances than an M-16.


Yeah, .308/7.62 is more accurate at longer ranges, which is why it's used for sniper rifles. But it's harder to teach somebody to shoot accurately with .308 as opposed to .223, and .308 is less accurate when used in burst fire or full auto modes; there's a lot of recoil there, even with correspondingly heavier rifles. So while .308 is technically the more accurate cartridge on paper, in practice, most people shoot better with .223 unless we're talking strictly bolt-action or semi-automatic rifles, and even then the weight and felt recoil tend to eliminate any advantage inherent in the cartridge for the average shooter.
   106. Rants Mulliniks Posted: January 17, 2013 at 02:25 PM (#4349200)
...and if Bonds used steroids or HGH, he's kept it under wraps for at least as long as Armstrong did. The idea that conspiracies don't exist is naive and juvenile. That doesn't mean all of the ones we hear about do exist, of course, but keeping secrets isn't nearly so hard when threats of death and harming one's family come into play. Please let's not pretend that these threats only exist in movies.
   107. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 17, 2013 at 02:25 PM (#4349201)
But it's harder to teach somebody to shoot accurately with .308 as opposed to .223, and .308 is less accurate when used in burst fire or full auto modes; there's a lot of recoil there, even with correspondingly heavier rifles. So while .308 is technically the more accurate cartridge on paper, in practice, most people shoot better with .223 unless we're talking strictly bolt-action or semi-automatic rifles, and even then the weight and felt recoil tend to eliminate any advantage inherent in the cartridge for the average shooter.

Disagree. They taught conscripts to shoot accurately with .30 cal rifles for something like 80 years. They shouldn't be fired on burst or full-auto. I'd issue semi-auto only. I've never heard of any accuracy problems with Garands in WW2 or Korea.

Delta Force and other SF operators are highly trained elite forces and they largely are permitted to select their own equipment already. Most soldiers are NOT Delta Force; they don't have the aptitude or the training, and they don't undertake the same sort of missions. What makes sense for Delta doesn't necessarily make sense for non-elite infantry.

Given the small size of our military (in terms of actual foot soldiers), and the fact that it's 100% long-service professionals, they all should be elite infantry.
   108. Lassus Posted: January 17, 2013 at 02:39 PM (#4349212)
BTW, nice to see you back, Arva.
   109. The Good Face Posted: January 17, 2013 at 02:50 PM (#4349227)
Disagree. They taught conscripts to shoot accurately with .30 cal rifles for something like 80 years. They shouldn't be fired on burst or full-auto. I'd issue semi-auto only. I've never heard of any accuracy problems with Garands in WW2 or Korea.


It's not a case of not being able to do so, it's a case of it being easier and more efficient to do it the way we're doing it now. FWIW, I've done a good bit of shooting with Iraq/Afghanistan vets, and they generally like and prefer the .223 over the .308. The beauty of the .223 is that it's a decent all around cartridge. Perhaps it's not ideal for any given purpose, but it's adequate for virtually all purposes. In those situations where it's not adequte (dedicated sniper teams, elite SF operators, etc.), we give those soldiers the special gear they need. It's a cromulent system that gets the job done.

Given the small size of our military (in terms of actual foot soldiers), and the fact that it's 100% long-service professionals, they all should be elite infantry.


Given that we've sent National Guard units on multiple overseas combat deployments over the past decade, I don't think that's feasible.
   110. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: January 17, 2013 at 02:50 PM (#4349228)
No small arms generate enough energy to reliably "stop" another human being from a physics perspective


Wasn't there a Mythbusters episode debunking the whole "knock the bad guy over backwards with a bullet" thing?

how big and manly your cartridge is


Heh.
   111. Ron J2 Posted: January 17, 2013 at 02:57 PM (#4349235)
#110 Episodes 25 and 38 (a revisit). Even a .50 won't knock a target backwards. (with a shout out to Newton's 3rd law)
   112. Rants Mulliniks Posted: January 17, 2013 at 03:00 PM (#4349240)
Even a .50 won't knock a target backwards.


I've seen some sniper spotter scope videos from Afghanistan that would refute that. These guys will literally sent flying.
   113. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: January 17, 2013 at 03:15 PM (#4349252)
A large portion of the American society is seeing their economic status deteriorate. At the same time, family ties are disintegrating among the non-affluent (>40% of children born to single mothers) so there is less of a support network to compensate. And the elites of both parties don't give a damn.


None of this is new, or even all that recent. So I just want to know why the understandable anxiety to irrational delusion transition has taken so long to catch up.

A conspiracy doesn't have to mean the whole gov't knew. Just more than one person working together.


But the conspiracy theories we're talking about require a lot more than that. The Lincoln assassination was an actual conspiracy to bring down the federal government of the United States and reverse the outcome of the Civil War, but the actual conspiracy is easily distinguished from the bizarre theories about a much broader conspiracy.
   114. Ron J2 Posted: January 17, 2013 at 03:15 PM (#4349254)
#112 They specifically tested the .50. I know people don't want to believe it, but it's not knocking them back/down. You might blown out a supporting limb and have somebody fall. Or they might react out of shock (but the smaller, higher velocity rounds are better at inducing shock)
   115. Tippecanoe Posted: January 17, 2013 at 03:35 PM (#4349271)
Assuming a pure inelastic collision, using the SI definition of one grain = 0.065 grams, and with Snapper's cited velocity of approximately 800 meters/sec, the .30 caliber would stop an 80 kg man traveling toward the shooter at 0.12 meters/sec (0.43 km/hour) or slower. Similarly, if the 80 kg man is standing still, his backward velocity after impact is around 0.43 km/hr.

The .50 caliber has about 4 times the mass of the .30 caliber (721 gr per google search result), so the post-impact velocity of the 80 kg man should be about 1.7 km/hr assuming the round is traveling at a similar velocity.

   116. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: January 17, 2013 at 03:46 PM (#4349279)
1.7 km/hr isn't exactly flying into the air and doing a backflip. And it's anything but an inelastic collision.
   117. base ball chick Posted: January 17, 2013 at 03:50 PM (#4349283)
i'm still not getting the sandy hook thing

are they saying that nobody was killed except adam lanza's mother? even her?
OR that there are no dead kids at all and they have simply disappeared with their entire families not having a problem with this?

i have heard the one about AIDS virus being invented to kill gays and Blacks. i want to know how come it kills Whites and Asians too?

i have heard the one about White people inventing sickle cell to kill Black people, too. which would mean fooling with DNA before anyone knew what DNA is. which i would like to know how they did it

i have heard all the ones about how bush created katrina/refused to allow any help/forced the LA gov n NOLA mayor to deal with it all by their lonesome so as they could kill more Black people

conspiracy theorists - well, the explanation really is a whole lot of blather that The Satan Is Out There
and
The End Of The World As I Like It Is Here
   118. GregD Posted: January 17, 2013 at 03:59 PM (#4349285)
OR that there are no dead kids at all and they have simply disappeared with their entire families not having a problem with this?
The families are all actors, bbc! They don't have kids! It's all a skit. Why can't you see the truth?

The whole thing is even stupider than other conspiracy theories.
   119. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: January 17, 2013 at 03:59 PM (#4349286)
are they saying that nobody was killed except adam lanza's mother? even her?
OR that there are no dead kids at all and they have simply disappeared with their entire families not having a problem with this?


The whole thing was staged so that Obama could take away your guns. The "families" got no problem with it because they're all actors.

i have heard the one about AIDS virus being invented to kill gays and Blacks. i want to know how come it kills Whites and Asians too?


Government conspiracy Biotech was still in its infancy; they didn't know how to make a virus that would only kill gays and Blacks. Who knew that the gays and Blacks would mess up the plan by having sex with Whites and Asians?
   120. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: January 17, 2013 at 04:08 PM (#4349293)
None of this is new, or even all that recent. So I just want to know why the understandable anxiety to irrational delusion transition has taken so long to catch up.


I'm not breaking ground but the internet has obviously made it easier to spread these conspiracy theories/communicate with others to reinforce your belief. Obviously internet has been around a while now, and I feel like conspiracy theories are spreading more in the last couple of years than they had in the past so that can't explain everything.

Maybe it's the same as it always has been and I may be blinded by personal experience here.

   121. DA Baracus Posted: January 17, 2013 at 04:08 PM (#4349294)
i have heard the one about AIDS virus being invented to kill gays and Blacks. i want to know how come it kills Whites and Asians too?

i have heard the one about White people inventing sickle cell to kill Black people, too. which would mean fooling with DNA before anyone knew what DNA is. which i would like to know how they did it

i have heard all the ones about how bush created katrina/refused to allow any help/forced the LA gov n NOLA mayor to deal with it all by their lonesome so as they could kill more Black people


Sandy Hook was just Obama's way of striking back. It's so simple it must be true. Occam's Razor.
   122. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: January 17, 2013 at 04:13 PM (#4349301)
Are there any good MLB-centered conspiracy theories? The NBA has a few, but does anyone think MLB is fixed in any way?
   123. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: January 17, 2013 at 04:17 PM (#4349309)
I'm not breaking ground but the internet has obviously made it easier to spread these conspiracy theories/communicate with others to reinforce your belief. Obviously internet has been around a while now, and I feel like conspiracy theories are spreading more in the last couple of years than they had in the past so that can't explain everything.


The Web is 20 years old, but our use of it has changed radically in the last few years. Friendster only started in 2002. Facebook had a pretty limited user group through 2006, and both it and Twitter only blew up in 2008. Facebook and Twitter have become so ubiquitous that we tend to forget that it's a very new world we live in. People are connected and in constant communication in ways that they weren't only a few years ago.

(I should say that I don't know if conspiracy theories are spreading faster than they once did, but I agree that it certainly feels like they are.)

   124. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: January 17, 2013 at 04:18 PM (#4349310)
Are there any good MLB-centered conspiracy theories?


The 2004 playoffs were a hoax acted out on a sound stage at a secret Air Force Base in Nevada.
   125. Morty Causa Posted: January 17, 2013 at 04:21 PM (#4349313)
There are always those who think the ball has been juiced in some way. It's the kneejerk first out of the chute explanation for any increase in offense. Tony Kubek on the game of the week would start every season of his broadcasting with statements to that effect. He did that the whole time he was broadcasted the game of the week. It never seemed to have occurred to him that if the ball were juiced a little more each succeeding year, after a while it would really be obvious--like in hitters hitting for phenomenal averages and distances.
   126. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: January 17, 2013 at 04:23 PM (#4349315)
Are there any good MLB-centered conspiracy theories? The NBA has a few, but does anyone think MLB is fixed in any way?


My father-in-law is convinced that the umpires are directed by Selig and Fox to fix postseason games that could end a series early. I watched game 4 of the World Series with him, and he cited every call that went against the Giants as further evidence of the plan. He also thinks the union arranges for certain teams to win or lose in the postseason. This is mainly a reference to the Tigers. The union keeps them losing in the postseason so that Mike Illitch will keep pouring more and more money into salaries. At this point I should mention that my father-in-law is both crazy and extremely alcoholic, which might have something to do with this theories.

EDIT: Oh yeah, MLB is also bribing the town council of St. Petersburg to arrange for a new stadium in an area baseball wants. This might actually be true.
   127. formerly dp Posted: January 17, 2013 at 04:27 PM (#4349318)
At this point I should mention that my father-in-law is both crazy and extremely alcoholic, which might have something to do with this theories.
On the plus side, he does sound like a fun guy to watch a game with.
   128. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: January 17, 2013 at 04:27 PM (#4349319)
Oh yeah, MLB is also bribing the town council of St. Petersburg to arrange for a new stadium in an area baseball wants. This might actually be true.


Bribing Florida politicians? Unpossible.
   129. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: January 17, 2013 at 04:32 PM (#4349323)
There are always those who think the ball has been juiced in some way. Tony Kubek on the game of the week would start every season of his broadcasting with statements to that effect. He did that the whole time he was broadcasted the game of the week. It never seemed to have occurred to him that if the ball were juiced a little more each succeeding year, after a while it would really be obvious--like in hitters hitting for phenomenal averages and distances.


I feel like I've given consideration to the ball being juiced. Guess I'm a truther in my own right.
   130. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: January 17, 2013 at 04:36 PM (#4349327)
On the plus side, he does sound like a fun guy to watch a game with.


Unfortunately, there is nothing fun about a 72-year-old alcoholic.
   131. Morty Causa Posted: January 17, 2013 at 04:38 PM (#4349329)
Yeah, but is it your immediate default explanation all the time, whether there has been any increase in offense or not?
   132. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: January 17, 2013 at 04:41 PM (#4349330)
I thought I remember hearing one about Ryne Sandberg's retirement and comeback, but I can't recall what it was.

Then there's how Ripken's streak was kept alive by purposely shutting down the Camden Yards generator to delay a game because Ripken was distraught over catching his wife with Kevin Costner.

   133. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: January 17, 2013 at 04:44 PM (#4349332)
Then there's how Ripken's streak was kept alive by purposely shutting down the Camden Yards generator to delay a game because Ripken was distraught over catching his wife with Kevin Costner.


He wasn't distraught. He hurt his hand beating the sh!t out of Costner. And they didn't just shut down a generator, they staged a train derailment!
   134. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: January 17, 2013 at 04:44 PM (#4349333)
I thought I remember hearing one about Ryne Sandberg's retirement and comeback, but I can't recall what it was.


Coming off the wrist injury, Sandberg was ineffective. Plus the strike was looming. Plus his marriage was breaking up due to his wife sleeping with everybody in the clubhouse except Yosh Kawano.

The Ripken one I heard, thouhg the story I heard was that they got into a fight and Ripken was too beat up to play.
   135. Tripon Posted: January 17, 2013 at 04:46 PM (#4349335)
There's a conspricy afoot here. Its held by the BTF illumanti to get rid of the quoteblock button. DON'T FALL FOR IT.
   136. Pat Rapper's Delight Posted: January 17, 2013 at 04:48 PM (#4349337)
does anyone think MLB is fixed in any way?

John Kruk is half-way there.
   137. DA Baracus Posted: January 17, 2013 at 04:49 PM (#4349338)
Then there's how Ripken's streak was kept alive by purposely shutting down the Camden Yards generator to delay a game because Ripken was distraught over catching his wife with Kevin Costner.


I heard a version where the delay was because he was getting treatment after breaking his hand punching Costner and he DHed for a few games while it healed, despite the fact that he never DHed that year.
   138. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: January 17, 2013 at 04:51 PM (#4349339)
despite the fact that he never DHed that year.


Well, that just proves it. Why else would they cover it up?
   139. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 17, 2013 at 04:51 PM (#4349340)
But the conspiracy theories we're talking about require a lot more than that. The Lincoln assassination was an actual conspiracy to bring down the federal government of the United States and reverse the outcome of the Civil War, but the actual conspiracy is easily distinguished from the bizarre theories about a much broader conspiracy.

The craziest ones, sure.

But, the idea that Oswald was the patsy for a small group of rogue CIA operatives only requires a handful of people to know, in the sense they can prove it. The idea that the Chicago mob was involved in the RFK assanination, could involve 2 or 3 mob bosses and a couple of hit men.

There are conspiracy theories that don't require more than a dozen people to have real evidence of what happened. If any of these conspiracy theories are real, they have been widely discussed. They leaked in the sense that people know, or think they know what happened. They just haven't been proven.
   140. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: January 17, 2013 at 04:53 PM (#4349342)
Not only was Shoeless Joe Jackson innocent, he didn't play in the 1919 World Series.
   141. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: January 17, 2013 at 04:54 PM (#4349343)
I've never heard this before, but Google says some people think Curt Schilling put red paint on his sock during the "Bloody Sock Game" to have an excuse in case he pitched poorly.

There are theories about the ball being juiced for the 1987 season when there were weird HR totals.

Also, I seem to remember seeing a show where MLB was using its satellites to spy on people, but rather than know the terrifying truth, people just wanted to see Mark McGwire swat dingers.*

*-It was The Simpsons.
   142. Walt Davis Posted: January 17, 2013 at 04:59 PM (#4349351)
...and if Bonds used steroids or HGH, he's kept it under wraps for at least as long as Armstrong did.

Huh?

BALCO was raided in 2003, Bonds was shortly exposed as a client. BALCO was an incorporated entity, not a secret. Bonds had a reporter spend time with him and document his workout regimen.

At the grand jury and the crim trials of Conte, etc. it was established that BALCO had produced the cream and the clear. At the grand jury it was established that Bonds used cream and clear substances provided to him by Anderson. Bonds kept nothing "under wraps" and there's not a lot of doubt that Bonds used substances containing steroids (there is a slim possibility what Anderson gave him was not the real stuff). This has been in the public realm for, what, 7 years now?

The question is whether Bonds knowingly used steroids and therefore lied to the grand jury. On that we have Conte's testimony that he never told Bonds and we have other athletes that said they weren't told (and some that were if I recall) and we had Anderson sitting in jail for quite a long time for refusing to testify. That's not a complicated conspiracy unless you think Bonds was manipulating the testimony of Conte and several players and that not only Anderson but Marion Jones and others went to jail to protect Bonds.

Armstrong kept almost nothing "under wraps". Rumors abounded from the start. Andreu came forward in 2006. The Armstrong conspiracy held for, what, 7 years?

And in both cases the key element was nothing to do with complicated conspiracy or secret plots but rather friendship -- Anderson-Bonds and Andreu-Armstrong -- and not wanting to kill the golden goose. Anderson chose not to testify at all, Andreu only after being subpoenaed.
   143. Morty Causa Posted: January 17, 2013 at 04:59 PM (#4349352)
Mickey Mantle was a health food fadist who never drank anything stronger than a can or two now and then of Crab Juice. Okay, Mountain Dew, if there wasn't any Crab Juice. Although there was some monsterism associated with the MD.
   144. Tripon Posted: January 17, 2013 at 05:01 PM (#4349356)
The woman who wrote the Dear Abby columns was not actually named Abby. Wait, that's true!?
   145. The Chronicles of Reddick Posted: January 17, 2013 at 05:01 PM (#4349357)
Besides the famous NY Giants story about someone being in the scoreboard with binoculars to steal signs, wasnt there a theory that the Metrodome used to turn on the air conditioning when the visiting team was at bat?

There is also the story of the Ripken HR in the All-Star game being a fat pitch on purpose.
   146. Random Transaction Generator Posted: January 17, 2013 at 05:04 PM (#4349358)
I've never heard this before, but Google says some people think Curt Schilling put red paint on his sock during the "Bloody Sock Game" to have an excuse in case he pitched poorly.


That's the one I've heard a lot about.

Of course, if BBTF pools their money, maybe we can buy it and have it tested!
   147. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: January 17, 2013 at 05:04 PM (#4349360)
Bleacher Report once ran a story touching on a theory that Jim Joyce blew the call at the end of Armando Galarraga's semi-perfect game because of a league mandate that there be no more perfect games. Supposedly the spate of perfect games was widely attributed to the umpires and leading to calls for instant replay, which Selig didn't want. So Joyce blew the call on purpose, to avoid instant replay. I never heard of the theory outside of Bleacher Report, but it is wonderfully counterintuitive and I hope that someone out there believes it.

The all-time greatest stupid conspiracy is the one in Holy Blood, Holy Grail (and the basis for the Da Vinci Code) that alleges that the Merovingians were the descendants of Jesus and Mary Magdalene, and that there has been a secret conspiracy to place the surviving Merovingian heirs on all of the thrones of Europe. You may recall that the last Merovingian monarch was deposed in 751 by Charlemagne's father, Pepin the Short. So not only does this conspiracy necessarily involve a lot of people, it was somehow kept secret for the 1,231 years between 751 and the publication of the book in 1982.

EDIT: Honorable mention goes to the various theories that some or all of the the Middle Ages didn't exist and were faked by a Pope or someone similar, which only makes the Merovingian conspiracy that much more impressive. (Because the Merovingians, being Medieval, didn't exist. However a good chunk of those years between 751 and 1982 also didn't exist, which mitigates this difficulty somewhat.)
   148. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: January 17, 2013 at 05:07 PM (#4349363)
A large portion of the American society is seeing their economic status deteriorate. At the same time, family ties are disintegrating among the non-affluent (>40% of children born to single mothers) so there is less of a support network to compensate. And the elites of both parties don't give a damn.


None of this is new, or even all that recent. So I just want to know why the understandable anxiety to irrational delusion transition has taken so long to catch up.

The thing is, the sort of semi-mass paranoia and "truthseeking" we've seen lately is a recurring part of American history. As creepy as much of the racial and religious rhetoric of the loony right wing may be today, consider this: In the late 1930's, the openly anti-Semitic Catholic priest Charles Coughlin commanded a far bigger radio audience than Rush Limbaugh does today. And in the early 1920's, Henry Ford was both selling and giving out copies of The International Jew right there in his automobile showrooms. Among the conspiracy theories that set of 4 books promoted was that the Jews had taken over and were destroying baseball.

And IMO the main reason that we think that the paranoia is at some sort of all-time peak today is that it's so easy for anyone to get a platform and have it picked up and spread by like-minded wingnuts all across the country, where it gets magnified not only by sympathizers, but by people who re-post their rants for condemnation and / or mockery and entertainment. Add to that the infinitely greater political sophistication of right wing groups like the NRA and the crackpot religious types, and you wind up with an entire political party being dominated by some very strange people.
   149. Nasty Nate Posted: January 17, 2013 at 05:09 PM (#4349365)
People think there was a conspiracy to not offer a contract to Bonds after his last season.
   150. DA Baracus Posted: January 17, 2013 at 05:13 PM (#4349368)
Bleacher Report once ran a story touching on a theory that Jim Joyce blew the call at the end of Armando Galarraga's semi-perfect game because of a league mandate that there be no more perfect games.


I'm not sure this is serious, but it is Bleacher Report so you never know.

Then there's this: an ARod conspiracy theory.
   151. Every Inge Counts Posted: January 17, 2013 at 05:15 PM (#4349371)
Wasn't there a New England Patriots won a Super Bowl after 9/11 "conspiracy"?
   152. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: January 17, 2013 at 05:15 PM (#4349372)
People think there was a conspiracy to not offer a contract to Bonds after his last season.

Including about 90% of the people on BTF, who were quick to dismiss any alternate explanations for not offering him a contract.
   153. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: January 17, 2013 at 05:16 PM (#4349373)
Besides the famous NY Giants story about someone being in the scoreboard with binoculars to steal signs, wasnt there a theory that the Metrodome used to turn on the air conditioning when the visiting team was at bat?


I've heard the one about the Metrodome. I seem to remember the Seahawks were supposedly getting a boost from doors being opened or closed affecting the A/C wind patterns at the Kingdome for field goal attempts.
   154. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: January 17, 2013 at 05:23 PM (#4349381)

Wasn't there a New England Patriots won a Super Bowl after 9/11 "conspiracy"?


Or "the Yankees have to win the 2001 championship for 9/11"
   155. DA Baracus Posted: January 17, 2013 at 05:26 PM (#4349385)
I think we can all agree that NBA draft lotteries are actually rigged.
   156. Random Transaction Generator Posted: January 17, 2013 at 05:26 PM (#4349387)
Wasn't there a New England Patriots won a Super Bowl after 9/11 "conspiracy"?


Until everything fell apart in the 9th inning, I might have bought the same theory about the Yankees in 2001.
   157. Random Transaction Generator Posted: January 17, 2013 at 05:27 PM (#4349388)
I think we can all agree that NBA draft lotteries are actually rigged.


Not nowadays. Maybe way way back in the day.
   158. AROM Posted: January 17, 2013 at 06:01 PM (#4349416)
"However a good chunk of those years between 751 and 1982 also didn't exist, which mitigates this difficulty somewhat.)"

Pretty far out there. But I could be convinced 1991 didn't exist. I was 21 yet have only the haziest memories of the year.
   159. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 17, 2013 at 06:05 PM (#4349419)
I think we can all agree that NBA draft lotteries are actually rigged.

Well, they fix the playoffs, so why wouldn't they fix the lottery?
   160. Tripon Posted: January 17, 2013 at 06:13 PM (#4349427)
There was an actual Saints conspricy to pay players to take other players out of the game.
   161. Greg K Posted: January 17, 2013 at 06:44 PM (#4349448)
Don't forget the conspiracy to signal pitches to Jose Bautista from the outfield seats.

Whatever happened with that?
   162. Greg K Posted: January 17, 2013 at 06:48 PM (#4349454)
I'm not fully convinced 2007 happened. I'm not even entirely sure where I was living that year.

The "missing medieval years" theory is probably one of my favourites. Just so breath-takingly bold and innovative. I mean, this Sandy Hook thing...you knew the second it was reported that the usual nutters were going to have their conspiracy-by-numbers humdrum. But I'd love to be a fly on the wall for the dawn of realization that 500 years didn't happen.
   163. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: January 17, 2013 at 06:52 PM (#4349457)
There was an actual Saints conspiracy to pay players to take other players out of the game.


Does this count as a proper conspiracy? It was just the team doing it and trying to keep it secret. If the league office knew about it and covered it up, if the Bengals were paying the Saints to injure members of the Steelers, or even if the groundskeepers somehow made the turf harder where the opposing players were likely to be tackled, then it becomes a proper conspiracy. Otherwise it's just a team being shifty.
   164. The Chronicles of Reddick Posted: January 17, 2013 at 06:57 PM (#4349460)
The Colorado Rockies humidor conspiracy was another one I can think of. I remember Lincecum getting mad about one of the baseballs he was given.


Also I think my short lived marriage was a conspiracy though I can't prove it.
   165. DA Baracus Posted: January 17, 2013 at 06:58 PM (#4349461)
Does this count as a proper conspiracy? It was just the team doing it and trying to keep it secret. If the league office knew about it and covered it up, if the Bengals were paying the Saints to injure members of the Steelers, or even if the groundskeepers somehow made the turf harder where the opposing players were likely to be tackled, then it becomes a proper conspiracy. Otherwise it's just a team being shifty.


Just like Obama was behind Sandy Hook to get public support for radical gun bans, Roger Goodell was behind the Saints Bounties to get public support for the radical safety measures he wants to enact.
   166. zonk Posted: January 17, 2013 at 07:06 PM (#4349468)
My boss thinks BTF is a conspiracy to deprive the shareholders of my vaunted productivity...
   167. phredbird Posted: January 17, 2013 at 09:54 PM (#4349560)
wasnt there a theory that the Metrodome used to turn on the air conditioning when the visiting team was at bat?


how do you think the cheating twins won the series in 87? cuz they were good?
   168. Jarrod HypnerotomachiaPoliphili(Teddy F. Ballgame) Posted: January 17, 2013 at 10:44 PM (#4349578)
People think there was a conspiracy to not offer a contract to Bonds after his last season.

Including about 90% of the people on BTF, who were quick to dismiss any alternate explanations for not offering him a contract.


Collusion does not equal conspiracy.
   169. Squash Posted: January 18, 2013 at 12:25 AM (#4349626)
The thing is, the sort of semi-mass paranoia and "truthseeking" we've seen lately is a recurring part of American history.

Not even just American, there is a long history of European secret societies and such - the Illuminati, the Freemasons trying to take over the world, the Knights Templar going underground and running the world's banking system, the Protocols of Zion/the Jews who are controlling the world, there are a few plague-related ones as I recall (probably the Jews too), etc. Here is America we have all of those, Area 51 and the various UFO coverups and others. All of those are still around, in the case of the European ones, hundreds of years after they began. People have always believed this stuff (wanted to believe this stuff, for various reasons), but with mass media you can scream louder now and the echo chamber whips it into an even greater frenzy.

That being said I believe every NBA conspiracy there is.
   170. billyshears Posted: January 18, 2013 at 01:40 AM (#4349651)
Now that I think of it, the Middle Ages are complete bullshit. I don't know why I never realized that before.
   171. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: January 18, 2013 at 02:17 AM (#4349658)
The thing is, the sort of semi-mass paranoia and "truthseeking" we've seen lately is a recurring part of American history.

Not even just American, there is a long history of European secret societies and such


God, yes. I wasn't meaning at all to suggest that we have any sort of monopoly on paranoia and conspiracy theories. The Protocols of Zion alone has at last count been translated into several dozen languages that span every continent except possibly Antarctica.
   172. zenbitz Posted: January 18, 2013 at 02:36 AM (#4349660)
Some times I try to convince myself that low scoring games are due to home plate Umpires with hot dates (with Sarah Lee, typically).

I never did bother to calculate the weather normalized correlation coefficient for called balls and strikes across 2 teams playing a game, though.

Probably every other week there's a suggestion that one bad NFL call or another is point-spread related.
   173. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: January 18, 2013 at 09:18 AM (#4349700)
The woman who wrote the Dear Abby columns was not actually named Abby. Wait, that's true!?


As if that wasn't enough, it turns out that she wasn't a real deer, either!
   174. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: January 18, 2013 at 09:21 AM (#4349702)
If you guys want a real baseball conspiracy, in 1898 Philadelphia was caugh using a man with binoculars to steal signs, and a buried wire to transmit the signals to the third base coach, who would signal the batter.
   175. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: January 18, 2013 at 09:45 AM (#4349709)
i'm still not getting the sandy hook thing


Crazy people make the crazy. There's nothing else to get about the Sandy Hook Truthers. They are crazy people. Literally, detached from reality, crazy people. A good place to start with the new push for mental health scans around gun ownership in America would be to note that anyone crazy enough to believe that Newtown was a set-up is, by definition, too crazy to own guns.

People think there was a conspiracy to not offer a contract to Bonds after his last season.


Like the "way, way out there" idea that sports leagues might bribe local politicians for sweetheart stadium deals, the idea that Major League ownership and management might collude against a player or players is not really the realm of "conspiracy."

wasnt there a theory that the Metrodome used to turn on the air conditioning when the visiting team was at bat?


I'm pretty sure that one has been confirmed as true, too.
   176. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: January 18, 2013 at 09:46 AM (#4349710)
does anyone think MLB is fixed in any way?

John Kruk is half-way there.


My god, this is getting absolutely zero percent of the love that it should. This is friggin' brilliant!
   177. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: January 18, 2013 at 10:02 AM (#4349714)
My god, this is getting absolutely zero percent of the love that it should. This is friggin' brilliant!


I'll admit it - I laughed.
   178. Lassus Posted: January 18, 2013 at 10:02 AM (#4349715)
I would say the people who are 100% convinced that the NBA lottery is fixed are no less crazy than the Sandy Hook crazies.
   179. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 18, 2013 at 10:08 AM (#4349719)
I would say the people who are 100% convinced that the NBA lottery is fixed are no less crazy than the Sandy Hook crazies.

Are you saying you believe it's impossible that a multi-billion dollar American corporation would manipulate results and reporting to increase profits?

I'm not 100% convinced the NBA lottery is or isn't fixed (in some years at least) but after Enron, Madoff, Countrywide, Lehman, etc., etc., it would surprise you?
   180. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: January 18, 2013 at 10:27 AM (#4349732)
Are you saying you believe it's impossible that a multi-billion dollar American corporation would manipulate results and reporting to increase profits?


Considering; 1) an NBA "conspiracy" about referees being in the tank for some games was proven true recently, 2) a "conspiracy" about a famous professional cyclist buying off the anti-doping agency has recently proven true, 3) the NFL only reports maybe five players per year for using PEDs, and 4) we're in the middle of a huge "failure to report" story about a famous college athlete, and 5) general history of corporate behaviors, from the S&L scandals through Madoff right up to the on-going NRA meltdown, I can see no reason to assume the NBA is *not* gaming the lottery. No proof either way, but either belief is perfectly reasonable.
   181. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: January 18, 2013 at 10:34 AM (#4349744)
This conversation about conspiracies is kinda interesting in the wake of the Manti Teo story. On the one hand, I believe in Occam's Razor - the simplest explanation is most likely. Conspiracies are complicated, and humans have a tough time orchestrating complexity much less keeping it secret. Any explanation can have holes poked in it, but that doesn't make it false.

On the other hand, the sports media is coming under intense fire for not poking holes in a seemingly innocuous uplifting story about a dead girlfriend who apparently did not exist.
   182. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: January 18, 2013 at 10:36 AM (#4349747)
Philip K. Dick, my lord & master, believed, or at least posited, that we're all living in ... I dunno ... Rome 50 A.D. or something like that, & our entire environment is an illusion, I suppose created & perpetuated by VALIS.

Which would certainly explain away the Middle Ages, to say the least.
   183. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: January 18, 2013 at 11:32 AM (#4349828)
This conversation about conspiracies is kinda interesting in the wake of the Manti Teo story. On the one hand, I believe in Occam's Razor - the simplest explanation is most likely. Conspiracies are complicated, and humans have a tough time orchestrating complexity much less keeping it secret. Any explanation can have holes poked in it, but that doesn't make it false.

On the other hand, the sports media is coming under intense fire for not poking holes in a seemingly innocuous uplifting story about a dead girlfriend who apparently did not exist.


The only thing I can't understand about the Teo story is why anyone would treat it as anything other than a great big joke. Either Teo helped pull it off or he was actually a clueless victim, but either way, so what? The only real "scandal" here is that both Notre Dame and the sports media seem to find a hoax like this far more important a story than Lizzy Seeberg's suicide or Declan Sullivan's entirely preventable death.
   184. Eddo Posted: January 18, 2013 at 11:44 AM (#4349838)
The only thing I can't understand about the Teo story is why anyone would treat it as anything other than a great big joke. Either Teo helped pull it off or he was actually a clueless victim, but either way, so what? The only real "scandal" here is that both Notre Dame and the sports media seem to find a hoax like this far more important a story than Lizzy Seeberg's suicide or Declan Sullivan's entirely preventable death.

It's because it's so ####### weird. The prevailing sentiment is not, "Oh, how we've all been duped, woe is us," but "Can you believe all this?!"

Sports is entertainment. Daytime television is entertainment. The Te'o story is basically the two overlapping. And people are eating it up, as expected.
   185. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: January 18, 2013 at 11:45 AM (#4349839)
The only real "scandal" here is that both Notre Dame and the sports media seem to find a hoax like this far more important a story than Lizzy Seeberg's suicide or Declan Sullivan's entirely preventable death.


I agree that it has overshadowed a much more important story, but wasn't there a fund set up in Lennay's name with people donating money to it?
   186. bunyon Posted: January 18, 2013 at 11:45 AM (#4349840)
The thing is, the sort of semi-mass paranoia and "truthseeking" we've seen lately is a recurring part of American history.

Not even just American, there is a long history of European secret societies and such


I think it is because there is an element - just that - of truth in them. Socieities are divided into classes, with some socieities being more stratified than others. But there is always a "ruling" class and a "moneyed" class (and a lot of overlap between the two). I think, as a general rule, those two classes are continuously working to keep themselves in those classes and others out. I think those not in the two powerful classes know this. I don't think the attempt is done in large, detailed, complicated plans but, rather, as a nod and a wink between powerful people such that the trend of law and culture is toward the status quo. Not being able to find clear evidence of the conspiracy to keep them down, those in the lower classes (everyone not rich or powerful) gravitates toward these more outlandish conspiracies.
   187. bunyon Posted: January 18, 2013 at 11:50 AM (#4349846)
I also think the Middle Ages are crazy. Greg (and others) would it be so surprising to find out that the actual numeration of the years was off? How good are the records? I'm not talking about 500 years no existing but, rather, five years. Or a year. I know the calendar changed a number of times. Anyway, I'm not asking a conspiracy question but just one of record keeping. I would completely accept that it's an idiotic thought and that the records are really good.
   188. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 18, 2013 at 11:54 AM (#4349850)
I also think the Middle Ages are crazy. Greg (and others) would it be so surprising to find out that the actual numeration of the years was off? How good are the records? I'm not talking about 500 years no existing but, rather, five years. Or a year. I know the calendar changed a number of times. Anyway, I'm not asking a conspiracy question but just one of record keeping. I would completely accept that it's an idiotic thought and that the records are really good.

I doubt you could miss entire years. Multiple peoples across the globe were tracking time. The Chinese and Egyptians had advanced astronomy.

Events could certainly be mis-dated, but blocks of time missing; not possible IMHO.
   189. Nasty Nate Posted: January 18, 2013 at 12:05 PM (#4349857)
People think there was a conspiracy to not offer a contract to Bonds after his last season.



Like the "way, way out there" idea that sports leagues might bribe local politicians for sweetheart stadium deals, the idea that Major League ownership and management might collude against a player or players is not really the realm of "conspiracy."


Huh? Just labeling something a "conspiracy" does not imply that it was untrue or only believed in by paranoids. I made no claim whether or not Bonds was colluded against. If owners secretly got together and agreed that no one would sign Bonds, that by definition is a conspiracy. And if someone has a theory that this happened, that is by definition a conspiracy theory.

Owners and Lawmakers who have secret illegal arrangements in order to publicly fund stadiums are also engaging in conspiracies.
   190. Greg K Posted: January 18, 2013 at 12:09 PM (#4349861)
I also think the Middle Ages are crazy. Greg (and others) would it be so surprising to find out that the actual numeration of the years was off? How good are the records? I'm not talking about 500 years no existing but, rather, five years. Or a year. I know the calendar changed a number of times. Anyway, I'm not asking a conspiracy question but just one of record keeping. I would completely accept that it's an idiotic thought and that the records are really good.

I'd agree with snapper, "missing years" probably isn't likely, depending on what is meant by that. From the medieval period on (working backwards as it were) you do get into increasing difficulty dating events specifically, and even getting things in chronological order.

One of the more interesting papers I've heard, purely from a detective story perspective, was one on a particular crusade organized by a French nobleman in the 12th century (IIRC). The guy's assertion was that this was a purely "private" crusade (in that it did not have the support or encouragment of the Church), which goes against how it has been understand by historians so far. I don't remember the details, but the basis of that claim was an intense study of tracking the timing of news of a Christian defeat arriving from Turkey, dating the local stops on a provincial Papal tour, and pieceing together where relevant nobles, bishops, etc. were at given times during the relevant months. It was a very technical paper, but fascinating...especially for me coming from a field (the 17th century politics) where we usually know when everything happened to the day, if not in finer terms than that.
   191. The Chronicles of Reddick Posted: January 18, 2013 at 12:10 PM (#4349862)
The fact of the NBA being in the tank is easily provable by watching the games and seeing how fouls are called. The more recognition you have, the better your chances are that you will not get a foul called on you nor will you have any problem drawing one on a lesser known opponent. The NBA is a Q factor league.
   192. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: January 18, 2013 at 12:14 PM (#4349865)
By the time I started watching the NBA (1971ish), his career was pretty close to being over, but how did Wilt Chamberlain never foul out of a game? I know he was an incredible player who tended to be (quite often literally) head & shoulders above his opponents, particularly early in his career, but did he not play defense? Or played defense like a ballerina? Surely not. I mean, there's also such a thing as an offensive foul; clearly he went to the basket a whole hell of a lot, & surely every now & then the opposing center had position & created the opportunity for a charge.

After Wilt, what's the fewest number of games fouled out by a player with a career of, say, at least 10 seasons?
   193. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: January 18, 2013 at 12:15 PM (#4349866)
I doubt you could miss entire years. Multiple peoples across the globe were tracking time. The Chinese and Egyptians had advanced astronomy.


The Middle Ages weren't some sort of massive gap in known history or advancement of civilization. It's just a period of time where Europe didn't lead the way. We know the proper accounting of years and history during the Middle Ages, because Baghdad was the Rome/Istanbul of the era.

The fact that Muslims were the primary innovators and civilized folks, while Christians in Europe were mucking about in pig ####, doesn't mean that civilization ended. The "Middle Ages" saw the invention of calculus and physics, more or less. It just too "Christendom" a thousand years to catch up.
   194. bunyon Posted: January 18, 2013 at 12:21 PM (#4349871)
Sam, yes, I know all that stuff and put it badly. I wasn't thinking about it actually having been only 1000 years since Rome but, rather, could there be European gaps where big discoveries might be made?

I totally plead guilty to making an assumption of Eurocentrism in my question.
   195. TDF, situational idiot Posted: January 18, 2013 at 12:23 PM (#4349873)
The only real "scandal" here is that both Notre Dame and the sports media seem to find a hoax like this far more important a story than Lizzy Seeberg's suicide or Declan Sullivan's entirely preventable death.

I agree that it has overshadowed a much more important story, but wasn't there a fund set up in Lennay's name with people donating money to it?
Oh, it's much, much better than that.

After the BCS Championship, a Notre Dame alum and 4 friends created a charity for the Leukemia & Lymphoma Society in memory of the 'dead girlfriend'. Notre Dame sent a film crew to do an interview with the guy, and posted the video on their website on Tuesday.

To recap, in order:
Notre Dame supposedly knew it was a hoax on December 28.
After the game on January 7, the charity was set up.
After that, Notre Dame interviewed and filmed the guy.
On January 15, 2 weeks after they said they knew the girl didn't exist, Notre Dame posted the video on their official website, evidently to elicit donations to the charity.

Edited because I can't subtract dates.
   196. Greg K Posted: January 18, 2013 at 12:27 PM (#4349879)
Sam, yes, I know all that stuff and put it badly. I wasn't thinking about it actually having been only 1000 years since Rome but, rather, could there be European gaps where big discoveries might be made?

That's how I read your question. For instance, maybe there was a King that reigned for a couple years in Denmark that's been forgotten? Or a year or two for which no one's found any source evidence of anything happening?

The other thing to keep in mind is that (depending on when you're talking about, the "Middle Ages" covers a very diverse period in European history), Europe wasn't all that "dark". And even when it was just a big pile of #### with barbarian thugs killing each other, you generally had the Church at least trying to keep a tab on things.
   197. TDF, situational idiot Posted: January 18, 2013 at 12:29 PM (#4349882)
The only real "scandal" here is that both Notre Dame and the sports media seem to find a hoax like this far more important a story than Lizzy Seeberg's suicide or Declan Sullivan's entirely preventable death.
No, the scandal is that no one in any of the media organizations took 5 seconds to look for the girl's obituary when she "died".

This is a big story because her life was a big story. If ESPN, NBC, and everyone else hadn't made such a big deal of Te'o "struggling" with the "twin tragedies" of losing his grandmother and "girlfriend", no one would have knows so much about her, and thus no one would now care that she doesn't exist.

   198. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: January 18, 2013 at 12:43 PM (#4349901)
Sam, yes, I know all that stuff and put it badly. I wasn't thinking about it actually having been only 1000 years since Rome but, rather, could there be European gaps where big discoveries might be made?


Understood, and somewhat stipulated. Certainly we know less, definitively, about the princes and kings of Middle Ages Europe than we do about the lineages of Roman emperors or the Caliphates. But it's not like we're reading the history of the era via Beowulf or the Irish epics.
   199. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: January 18, 2013 at 12:47 PM (#4349904)
As a kid I became obsessed with the kingdom of Strathclyde, which was one of the last or maybe the last surviving British (i.e., Celtic, along the lines of the Welsh) states outside of Wales. I saw it on a map somewhere and got interested, and was amazed with the lack of information we have about it. I just looked at the Wikipedia page about it, and the subsection on the end of the kingdom is a remarkable parade of statements of uncertainty. I'll quote it in full here:

If the kings of Alba imagined, as John of Fordun did, that they were rulers of Strathclyde, the death of Cuilén mac Iduilb and his brother Eochaid at the hands of Amdarch of Strathclyde in 971, said to be in revenge for the rape or abduction of his daughter, shows otherwise. A major source for confusion comes from the name of Amdarch's successor, Máel Coluim, now thought to be a son of the Domnall mac Eógain who died in Rome, but long confused with the later king of Scots Máel Coluim mac Cináeda. Máel Coluim appears to have been followed by Owen the Bald who is thought to have died at the battle of Carham in 1018. It seems likely that Owen had a successor, although his name is unknown.

Some time after 1018 and before 1054, the kingdom of Strathclyde appears to have been conquered by the Scots, most probably during the reign of Máel Coluim mac Cináeda who died in 1034. In 1054, the English king Edward the Confessor dispatched Earl Siward of Northumbria against the Scots, ruled by Mac Bethad mac Findláich (Macbeth), along with an otherwise unknown "Malcolm son of the king of the Cumbrians", in Strathclyde. The name Malcolm or Máel Coluim again caused confusion, some historians later supposing that this was the later king of Scots Máel Coluim mac Donnchada (Máel Coluim Cenn Mór). It is not known if Malcolm/Máel Coluim ever became "king of the Cumbrians", or, if so, for how long.

By the 1070s, if not earlier in the reign of Máel Coluim mac Donnchada, it appears that the Scots again controlled Strathclyde. It is certain that Strathclyde did indeed become an appanage, for it was granted by Alexander I to his brother David, later David I, in 1107.


"Said to be", "thought to be", "his name is unknown", "otherwise unknown", "again caused confusion", "not known if", "it appears that". That sums up a lot of Medieval history, especially early on and in the geographic fringes. We know some stuff, we can guess at some stuff, and there's stuff that is a blank of something very close to it.
   200. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: January 18, 2013 at 12:59 PM (#4349913)
The only real "scandal" here is that both Notre Dame and the sports media seem to find a hoax like this far more important a story than Lizzy Seeberg's suicide or Declan Sullivan's entirely preventable death.

No, the scandal is that no one in any of the media organizations took 5 seconds to look for the girl's obituary when she "died".


Sorry, but all I see there is example #8861 of the overall misdirection of Big Sports Media, as it tries to "reach out to people who aren't necessarily interested in sports". Call it the Oprahfication of sports or whatever you want, but when it blows up in their faces my only reaction is a big fat grin.

This is a big story because her life was a big story. If ESPN, NBC, and everyone else hadn't made such a big deal of Te'o "struggling" with the "twin tragedies" of losing his grandmother and "girlfriend", no one would have knows so much about her, and thus no one would now care that she doesn't exist.

Totally agree there. See my above paragraph. It's too bad we can't take about 80% of the "sports media" and re-direct them to a more useful line of employment, like scrubbing crack house toilets with a toothbrush.
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