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Monday, June 29, 2009

THT: Jaffe: The 10 worst lineups ever no-hit

Includes sweet Schneck/dreck drop.

2. Bill Stoneman vs. the New York Mets, October 2, 1972.

Remember how the 1981 Jays had the worst batting average of any team in the last 37 years? Well, the 1972 Mets were the team from 37 years ago with an even worse batting average: .225. Here’s their lineup on Bill Stoneman’s big day:
Name	          Avg
Barnes, 2B	0.236
Fregosi, 3B	0.232
Milner, LF	0.238
Kranepool, 1B   0.269
Sudakis, C	0.143
Schneck, CF	0.187
Hahn, RF	0.162
Martinez, T, SS	0.224
McAndrew, P	0.047
  
What dreck.

Please note that not only does Ed Kranepool possess the above lineup’s best batting average, but he has a lead of over 30 points on anyone else. That should never happen. I don’t care if Kranepool is the Mets’ franchise all-time leader in career games played, at-bats, plate appearances, doubles, hits, singles, and total bases, there’s still no excuse for having a lineup where no one’s within 30 points of him.

Repoz Posted: June 29, 2009 at 01:19 PM | 41 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
Tags: history, sabermetrics

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1. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: June 29, 2009 at 01:57 PM (#3236487)

I don't know what is more surprising - Delino DeShields hitting third and DHing for a team that got no-hit, or the fact that Eric Milton apparently tossed a no-hitter once.

2. Designated Sitter (GGC) Posted: June 29, 2009 at 02:03 PM (#3236495)

Nick Maddox! As fate would have it, I was just reading about him yesterday. He was a stud; fathering nine children, including a son at 46.

3. Van Lingle Mungo Jerry Posted: June 29, 2009 at 02:21 PM (#3236509)

I suppose it's too much to hope that the Mets' 1972 right fielder named Hahn (BA: .162) and the White Sox' 1910 right fielder named Hahn (BA: .113) were related. Checking ... nope. Oh well, it was nice imagining a grandfather/grandson combo of such multigenerational ineptitude.

4. Dr Love Posted: June 29, 2009 at 02:23 PM (#3236512)

The Nomo one was opening day, so you can excuse that lineup order and construction a bit. DeSheilds, Anderson and Bordick were fine hitters in previous years, they all fell of a cliff in 2001.

5. esseff Posted: June 29, 2009 at 02:33 PM (#3236518)

And the Stoneman no-hitter came in October, as the Mets were playing out the string. That Mets team outperformed its pythagorean projection by a whopping 11 games. And John Milner was a useful offensive player, despite the BA.

6. Smiling Joe Hesketh Posted: June 29, 2009 at 02:41 PM (#3236525)

I was hoping for a Trent Durrington mention. Jaffe did not let me down.

7. Crispix Attacks Posted: June 29, 2009 at 02:45 PM (#3236532)

Good article!

I think a horrible lineup including a horrible DH is even more horrible than a horrible lineup including a pitcher. For example, the notorious Angels lineup selected by Joe Maddon for Milton's no-hitter had a 33-year-old Steve Decker at DH.

Looks like the other two DHs on this list were Delino DeShields shortly before his retirement, and a 24-year-old Willie Upshaw in the midst of his third straight sub-.630 OPS season.

8. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: June 29, 2009 at 02:45 PM (#3236534)

9. The District Attorney Posted: June 29, 2009 at 02:51 PM (#3236542)

Let me give my reflexive response to hearing the name "Steve Decker": Bill James really loved him as a prospect. That is all, carry on

10. RJ in TO Posted: June 29, 2009 at 02:55 PM (#3236545)

I was sure that the Barker game was going to be on the list - the 1981 Jays are still the worst hitting team I can remember. How bad does a team's offense have to be to have a 0.349 winning percentage when you've got an above average pitching staff?

11. Harveys Wallbangers

Posted: June 29, 2009 at 02:56 PM (#3236546)

DA:

I think that was around Decker having hit .390 in half a season in the minors and to that point in his career hitting at every stop. He was way old for his league but as Bill pointed out, .390 is .390.

Decker got a late start and never really grabbed hold of a job. But you see those minor league career splits and you have to think the guy could have played in the big leagues.

Oh well......

12. esseff Posted: June 29, 2009 at 03:00 PM (#3236549)

Let me give my reflexive response to hearing the name "Steve Decker": Bill James really loved him as a prospect. That is all, carry on

And Decker several times caught for Bud Black. Talk about a toolsy battery.

13. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: June 29, 2009 at 03:03 PM (#3236555)

The Nomo one was opening day, so you can excuse that lineup order and construction a bit.

Actually, Game 2, though your point remains on lineup construction. However, Chris could have cheated and put Feller's 1940 no-hitter at the top, since all of the White Sox exited the game with batting averages of .000.

14. Dr Love Posted: June 29, 2009 at 03:05 PM (#3236558)

Actually, Game 2

That's what I get for not looking it up. For some reason I remember it being opening day, now it's not as cool.

15. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: June 29, 2009 at 03:05 PM (#3236559)

I really liked Decker too. What's odd in that game is that Decker is DHing, while Todd Greene, who was really a DH, was catching.

16. Mike Webber Posted: June 29, 2009 at 03:08 PM (#3236563)

I thought this one would make the list, May 19, 2008 KC at BOS, but I think it would only make a DH era type list. Its hard to compete with those deadball era teams. The last two batters though were hitting .103 and .169, pretty poor.

17. Dan The Mediocre Posted: June 29, 2009 at 03:09 PM (#3236565)

I don't know what is more surprising - Delino DeShields hitting third and DHing for a team that got no-hit, or the fact that Eric Milton apparently tossed a no-hitter once.

How about no Cubs teams being the hitting team on this list?

18. Mike Webber Posted: June 29, 2009 at 03:13 PM (#3236567)

How about no Cubs teams being the hitting team on this list?

Maybe that is because Jaffe is a Cubs fan.

19. Clemenza Posted: June 29, 2009 at 03:17 PM (#3236571)

I think the story behind the Angles lineup in the Milton game is that the game had to be played at something like 11 am because the Gophers had a game in the dome that evening. So the Angles trotted out the B-squad because the A-squad had just finished a game 12-13 hours earlier. B-reference says noon but is that eastern time? I'm pretty sure it was a morning start.

A-ha! Thank you NY Times...

The depleted lineup was mostly the result of an early-morning start at the Metrodome. The first pitch came at 11:06 A.M. Central Daylight Time because workers needed time to get the field ready for a night college football game between Minnesota and Louisiana-Monroe.

In a related story I'm not going to miss the Dome.

20. Kiko Sakata

Posted: June 29, 2009 at 04:03 PM (#3236605)

How about no Cubs teams being the hitting team on this list

I thought I read somewhere (maybe the SABR-L e-mail list?) the Cubs are in position to set the major-league record for most consecutive games without being no-hit later this season (in August, maybe). I think Sandy Koufax was the last guy to no-hit them.

21. Dag Nabbit apealing [sic] his own check swing Posted: June 29, 2009 at 04:12 PM (#3236613)

How about no Cubs teams being the hitting team on this list?

Maybe that is because Jaffe is a Cubs fan.

Nah. What helped them was going over 40 years without being no-hit. In fact, since winning their last world title over a century ago, they've only been no-hit four times.

That's the Cubs: consistently terrible but rarely historically so. For all their futility, they've only topped 98 losses in a season twice.

22. SandyRiver Posted: June 29, 2009 at 04:47 PM (#3236663)

This actually is in reference to the linked article on the best line-ups having been no-hit, as I didn't see that one earlier:
It was a bit surprising not to see Don Larsen on the list, as the Dodgers were still a pretty good hitting team. Their .258 was only 4th in the NL that year, but they had a solid 1-7 lineup (Campy at #8 hit only .219) and 4 HOF on the field. Maybe postseason doesn't qualify?

23. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 29, 2009 at 05:00 PM (#3236679)

The Orioles could have had several entries on the list.

24. Dag Nabbit apealing [sic] his own check swing Posted: June 29, 2009 at 05:33 PM (#3236709)

#22

Actually, when I began compiling last year's column, I assumed that the Larsen game would make it, but it wasn't quite good enough. These articles are primarily based on batting average (whatever its faults, it does a good job showing a person's abilty to get a hit). Yeah, they had four HoFers, but two hit under .260 and all four were under .300. It was a great offense, but much of their value lay in walks (led the NL), and homers (second in the league). In terms of hit-getting, they were good but nothing outstanding. The lineup's best hitter was Jim Giliam at .300. It was considered, but found wanting.

25. Jeff K. Posted: June 29, 2009 at 05:44 PM (#3236721)

Steve Decker! I have some autographs from a Captains/Drillers game from back in that era (don't know why I picked that game to get autos), Royce Clayton's is on his minor-league card, as are a couple of other guys. I bought a ball to use for the visitors and assorted other whatnots. The two most prominent names on the ball both in size (they dwarf the others) and sadly in caliber of player, are Decker, who for some reason ended up there, and DJ Dozier.

26. Delorians Posted: June 29, 2009 at 05:48 PM (#3236729)

Wouldn't a more interesting article (and achievement) be the (ten) best lineups ever no-hit?

27. Tom Nawrocki Posted: June 29, 2009 at 05:49 PM (#3236730)

What's odd in that game is that Decker is DHing, while Todd Greene, who was really a DH, was catching.

Actually, Todd Greene was in leftfield. Someone named "Hemphill" was catching.

Coincidentally, there was an article in the Denver Post this weekend in which Brad Hawpe gave Todd Greene tons of credit for teaching him how to be a big leaguer when he first came up. Greene is apparently seen as future managerial material.

28. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: June 29, 2009 at 05:54 PM (#3236733)

Wouldn't a more interesting article (and achievement) be the (ten) best lineups ever no-hit?

Read the FA. Chris did that exact compilation last year.

29. Dag Nabbit apealing [sic] his own check swing Posted: June 29, 2009 at 05:59 PM (#3236744)

Wouldn't a more interesting article (and achievement) be the (ten) best lineups ever no-hit?

This article begins by noting I already wrote an article on the best lineups ever no-hit last year. That's the article #22 referred to.

EDITED to add: Er, what post #28 said.

30. adamadkins Posted: June 29, 2009 at 06:01 PM (#3236748)

Did anyone else notice how bad last night's Mets lineup was? 7 of 9 batters had sub-.800 OPS'. Injuries man, they are a ##### sometimes.

31. BringBackTimTeufel Posted: June 29, 2009 at 06:15 PM (#3236770)

No love for the April 16, 1940, Chicago White Sox? By God, they were all hitting .000!

32. SuperGrover Posted: June 29, 2009 at 06:26 PM (#3236786)

I don't know what is more surprising - Delino DeShields hitting third and DHing for a team that got no-hit, or the fact that Eric Milton apparently tossed a no-hitter once.

To be fair, the number posted by DeShields was his AL number only as he was released by Baltimore and picked up by the Cubs midway through the season. He actually hit quite well for the Cubs (.276/.380/.405).

33. Shredder Posted: June 29, 2009 at 06:26 PM (#3236791)

The day of the Milton no-hitter was the same day I saw my only game at Tiger Stadium. I remember seeing the "highlights" at the Spectadium in Troy after the game with buddha and a couple law school friends.

34. Roy Hobbs of WIFFLE Ball Posted: June 29, 2009 at 06:51 PM (#3236838)

Hey, I think I could probably throw a three- or four-hitter against that Mets lineup.

Mainly because they are all in their 60s now.

35. Roy Hobbs of WIFFLE Ball Posted: June 29, 2009 at 06:55 PM (#3236845)

3. Juan Marichal vs. the Houston Astros, June 15, 1963.
The 1963 Astros hit .220 as a team; which is the second-worst figure by any NL team in the last 100 seasons.

The Astros didn't exist until 1965. Marichal no-hit the Houston Colt .45s.

36. Walt Davis Posted: June 29, 2009 at 08:23 PM (#3236970)

Nobody's noticed yet (I don't think) but Steve Decker was catching for the Rox when they got no-hit by Nomo.

I understand it was ruled out on the mere technicality of not being a no-hitter :-) but Kerry Wood's 20 K game against the Astros should be on the best lineups list anyway! Bagwell, Biggio, Bell and Alou all hit over 300 that year and even Ausmus pulled off a 269. (Everett was not in the lineup).

That's still the highest game score ever and the Astros that year led the NL in scoring and were 2nd in BA with a 280 team average. Fair enough, they did have the 4th most Ks (if not for that one game, they might have finished 6th).

37. Walt Davis Posted: June 29, 2009 at 08:32 PM (#3236979)

And does Ken Holtzman have the best double? He no-hit the division-winning Braves in 69 (Alou, Carty and Aaron were the high BA hitters, the Braves were 3rd overall in the NL with a 258 BA ... those were the days!). And he no-hit an impressive sounding but not actually particularly good Reds lineup in 71 (Perez, May, Bench, McRae, Foster sounds nasty even though it wasn't particularly).

38. Steve Sparks Flying Everywhere Posted: June 29, 2009 at 08:48 PM (#3236995)

The 1999 Angels were a nighmare. It started when Mo Vaughn fell into the dugout and basically ended when we got no-hit.

In the middle we saw an outfield prospect named Mike Colangelo get carted off the field in his major league debut after he crashed into another player.

Chan Ho Park karate kicked Tim Belcher.

Omar Olivares, Ken Hill, Tim Belcher and Steve Sparks make a total of 92 starts.

And Charlie O'Brien hit .097 while using a salmon colored bat.

I'm surprised I'm still a baseball fan after watching that ****show

39. Andere Richtingen

Posted: June 29, 2009 at 09:55 PM (#3237046)

That's the Cubs: consistently terrible but rarely historically so. For all their futility, they've only topped 98 losses in a season twice

But the no no-hit stretch is still remarkable, considering that Cubs teams have generally been poor offensively. Of course, they play in Wrigley Field, in the day.

Cool article, by the way. You are good at coming up with neat ideas like this.

40. Dag Nabbit apealing [sic] his own check swing Posted: June 29, 2009 at 11:10 PM (#3237135)

Cool article, by the way. You are good at coming up with neat ideas like this.

Thanks.

41. Santanaland Diaries Posted: June 29, 2009 at 11:18 PM (#3237154)

Just wanted to give a quick Bravo! for the ending line Chris. Well done sir.

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THT: Jaffe: The 10 worst lineups ever no-hit

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