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Tuesday, May 13, 2008

THT: Treder: Daddy Wags

Buy Your Wags at The Hardball Rag…as Steve Treder looks back at Leon Wagner.

Deployed in a strict platoon role (fewer than 10 percent of his 241 plate appearances were against left-handed pitching) in left field by the Giants for the rest of the season, Wagner hit a blistering .317 with 13 homers. But the impression he made as a defender was less positive. Here was the summary report on Wagner in that year’s Dell Sports Baseball annual: “Raw, crude and deficient afield but has such tremendous power that he’s sure to get further examination.”

Along with ragged defense, the “raw and crude” impression may have been a function of Wagner’s approach at the plate, which featured an exaggerated high front-leg kick, á la Mel Ott or Sadaharu Oh. Such a hitting style always has been extremely unusual. I’d like to be able to give younger fans who never saw Wagner play a comparison to a modern-day hitter with a similar approach, but I can’t think of one, and in an informal poll of the THT staff, no one else can either. Both Darryl Strawberry and Kirby Puckett (not all that modern-day anymore, I know, I know) had big kicks, but not as big as Wagner’s. It was a singular style, to be sure.

Repoz Posted: May 13, 2008 at 12:03 PM | 41 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory) Posted: May 13, 2008 at 12:53 PM (#2778728)
Thanks, Steve. It is interesting to hear about a guy who found happiness in his minor league experiences as a black man.
   2. Toolsy McClutch Posted: May 13, 2008 at 04:50 PM (#2778934)
Yeah Steve, that really was nice. I had never even heard of him I think.

Odd, I just watched the forgettable "Resurrecting the Champ" last night.
   3. The cushions are crowded for Edmundo Posted: May 13, 2008 at 05:07 PM (#2778969)
Very nice, Steve.
He kind of looks like he could be Esther Rolle's brother.
   4. Alex_Lewis Posted: May 13, 2008 at 05:13 PM (#2778977)
Always one of my favorite, old time players. Another guy to add to the list of players I'm sad I'll never get to see. I've alwyas had a soft spot for all-hit, no-glove outfields... Esepcially ones with a personality. Seems to go hand in hand, doesn't it.

I'd also give quite a bit to go back in time and sit in on one of those Orlando Cepeda, Daddy Wags and others burn sesh.
   5. Steve Treder Posted: May 13, 2008 at 05:24 PM (#2778991)
I've alwyas had a soft spot for all-hit, no-glove outfields... Esepcially ones with a personality. Seems to go hand in hand, doesn't it.

Agreed.

I always liked the way Roy Blount Jr. put it:

Speaking of bad fielding and baserunning, surely ineptitude is funnier in baseball than in other sports. Bad defense in football or basketball is tragic, shameful, dismal. In baseball it is Dick Stuart earning the nicknames “Dr. Strangelove,” “Stonefinger,” or “Ancient Mariner” (who stoppeth one in three).

It is Curt Blefary becoming known as “Clank,” and Ray Jablonski and Lou “The Mad Russian” Novikoff winning a warm spot in every heart because they persisted, without letting it weaken their characters, in being so awful afield. If a man has a good heart and can hit, bad fielding, at least in retrospect and at a safe distance, can come to seem almost a sign of grace, like a bear’s inability to reason.
   6. esseff Posted: May 13, 2008 at 05:27 PM (#2778995)
Leon Wagner hit the first home run in the history of Candlestick Park. But he was playing for the Cardinals at the time.
   7. The cushions are crowded for Edmundo Posted: May 13, 2008 at 05:28 PM (#2778996)
In my lifetime, Greg Luzinski and Pat Burrell are fine LFs to add to the collection, along with Dick Allen in the 3B slot.
   8. Steve Treder Posted: May 13, 2008 at 05:34 PM (#2779003)
In my lifetime, Greg Luzinski and Pat Burrell are fine LFs to add to the collection, along with Dick Allen in the 3B slot.

- Rico Carty
- Jack Cust
- Cliff Johnson
- Gates Brown
- Willie Aikens
- Mike Epstein
- Steve Balboni
   9. The Good Face Posted: May 13, 2008 at 05:38 PM (#2779006)
-Kevin Reimer
-Lonnie Smith!
   10. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory) Posted: May 13, 2008 at 05:39 PM (#2779010)
- Pedro Guerrero
- Ron Kittle
- Bee Bee Richard
- Jorge Orta
- Frank Thomas
   11. Steve Treder Posted: May 13, 2008 at 05:39 PM (#2779011)
-Kevin Reimer
-Lonnie Smith!


Oh, yes!
   12. Steve Treder Posted: May 13, 2008 at 05:40 PM (#2779014)
And, by all means: Jim Ray Hart
   13. OCF Posted: May 13, 2008 at 06:05 PM (#2779044)
You've almost got a whole team, with reserves, there. Cliff Johnson was a catcher, more or less. You've got plenty of 1B and LF/RF listed. Pedro Guerrero and Dick Allen played 3B. So did Jim Ray Hart. Now who played CF? Well there was Pete Incaviglia, although he only got 37 games out there. But where are we going to find the 2B and SS?
   14. The cushions are crowded for Edmundo Posted: May 13, 2008 at 06:08 PM (#2779049)
- Frank Thomas
Both of 'em
   15. The cushions are crowded for Edmundo Posted: May 13, 2008 at 06:10 PM (#2779051)
Orta had 689 games at 2B including an AS selection (DNP). I hardly saw him but he had a bad rep at the time, FWIW.
   16. Steve Treder Posted: May 13, 2008 at 06:10 PM (#2779052)
But where are we going to find the 2B and SS?

You sure couldn't go wrong with Todd Walker and Hanley Ramirez.
   17. Steve Treder Posted: May 13, 2008 at 06:11 PM (#2779053)
Oh, and CF?

Gene Richards. Duh.
   18. Crispix Attacks Posted: May 13, 2008 at 06:11 PM (#2779054)
Yeah Steve, that really was nice. I had never even heard of him I think.

I had heard of him but only in the context of "Daddy Wags". Not remembering his real name. Mike Wagliarulo, right?
   19. The Most Interesting Man In The World Posted: May 13, 2008 at 06:11 PM (#2779055)
Could we stick Cory Snyder at short? It's a bit of a stretch, but that's the first name to come off the top of my head?
   20. Steve Treder Posted: May 13, 2008 at 07:35 PM (#2779118)
Could we stick Cory Snyder at short? It's a bit of a stretch, but that's the first name to come off the top of my head?

Snyder was for sure an -- interesting shortstop.

But I think we really should limit ourselves to guys who played at least one season with that as their primary position.

Alan Bannister would be a good choice, except he really wasn't all that imposing as a hitter. How about Hubie Brooks?
   21. Danny Posted: May 13, 2008 at 07:44 PM (#2779124)
Candy Maldonado?
   22. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: May 13, 2008 at 07:45 PM (#2779126)
"But where are we going to find the 2B and SS?"

As previously noted, Orta makes a fine 2B, and if I had my druthers I'd probably put Jose Offerman at SS.
   23. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: May 13, 2008 at 07:48 PM (#2779128)
You are looking for an all hit, no glove shortstops? How does Derek Jeter get ignored?

For 2B, how about Ron Gant? Played there in 1988.
   24. Repoz Posted: May 13, 2008 at 07:56 PM (#2779140)
No team is complete without...

Ron Blomberg
Rich McKinney
Raffy Ramirez
Billy Butler
Butch Hobson
   25. Crispix Attacks Posted: May 13, 2008 at 07:59 PM (#2779145)
And then, of course, Jeremy Giambi at DH.
   26. aleskel Posted: May 13, 2008 at 08:08 PM (#2779149)
for the love of god, people, Hank Greenberg!
   27. Hack Wilson Posted: May 13, 2008 at 08:15 PM (#2779160)
Wes Covington
   28. Alex_Lewis Posted: May 13, 2008 at 08:21 PM (#2779167)
Russ Davis.

Every visitng outfielder who played at the Stick.

Bad fielding CF... Marvin "Break In" Bernard.
   29. The Most Interesting Man In The World Posted: May 13, 2008 at 09:35 PM (#2779244)
He might not strictly fit your parameter, Steve, but the fact that Roy Smalley was a Shortstop/DH for the 1985 Twins must have been indicative of something.

I think it would be hilarious if this team had a DH that was primarily known for his defense. Kind of like the players the Giants were using in that slot during the 2002 World Series. Why they didn't just put Damon Minor on the roster for that purpose is going to be a lifelong mystery.
   30. Zach Posted: May 13, 2008 at 10:04 PM (#2779255)
Mike Piazza at catcher.
   31. Steve Treder Posted: May 13, 2008 at 10:05 PM (#2779257)
Why they didn't just put Damon Minor on the roster for that purpose is going to be a lifelong mystery.

It was driving me nuts at the time, but apparently Minor was hurt.
   32. Devin has a deep burning passion for fuzzy socks Posted: May 13, 2008 at 10:07 PM (#2779259)
Nobody's mentioned the 30-30-30 man? HoJo's gotta go somewhere.
   33. Flynn Posted: May 13, 2008 at 10:09 PM (#2779262)
Kevin Mitchell played SS..just sayin'...so did HoJo for that matter. Of course this was intentional - Davey Johnson would usually do this when El Sid was on the mound or some other lefty strikeout/flyball guy was pitching, but still..
   34. The Most Interesting Man In The World Posted: May 13, 2008 at 10:09 PM (#2779263)
It was driving me nuts at the time, but apparently Minor was hurt.

Thanks for the clarification.
   35. Boots Day Posted: May 13, 2008 at 10:16 PM (#2779268)
How long did Joel Youngblood last at second base? He's gotta be a candidate for this team.
   36. Steve Treder Posted: May 13, 2008 at 10:49 PM (#2779312)
How long did Joel Youngblood last at second base? He's gotta be a candidate for this team.

As the next installment of Superdupersubs will explore, in Youngblood's tenure with the Giants he actually performed better at second base than at third base. And he wasn't exactly Bill Mazeroski.
   37. The cushions are crowded for Edmundo Posted: May 14, 2008 at 12:07 AM (#2779465)
How long did Joel Youngblood last at second base? He's gotta be a candidate for this team.
The only ML player to share my birth date. I'm glad to see he's under consideration for the Superdupersub team.
   38. Esoteric Posted: May 14, 2008 at 12:14 AM (#2779482)
As far as lovable outfield butchers, no modern list is complete with Seattle's Raul Ibanez. Adam Dunn would be another good nominee.
   39. OCF Posted: May 14, 2008 at 12:29 AM (#2779542)
You are looking for an all hit, no glove shortstops? How does Derek Jeter get ignored?

It's an aesthetic choice. It's not so much actual defensive results we're talking about but image, popular perception, and in some cases (Pedro Guerrero, for instance), that particular player's attitude towards defense. ("Please don't hit it to me.") It's about Luzinski or Bob Watson playing left field line and ceding control of left and center to Maddox or Cedeno.
   40. Toolsy McClutch Posted: May 14, 2008 at 12:42 AM (#2779578)
George Bell played some 2B, but I think only a handful of games once he got called up. Of course, putting him on the team allows you to name them the 'Purple Butts' or some such fun.
   41. Bruce Markusen Posted: May 14, 2008 at 10:38 PM (#2781010)
Let me take a whack at the all-hit, no-field team:

Catcher: Cliff Johnson (a good backup catcher and pinch-hitter, but stone hands and a popgun arm)
First Base: Dick Stuart (never actually saw him play, but some of those stories about him have to be true)
Second Base: Jorge Orta (an outfielder in middle infield clothing)
Shortstop: Alan Bannister (I believe he and Orta formed a double-play combination one year, brutally bad)
Third Base: Jim Ray Hart (bad range, bad hands, little interest in fielding)
Left Field: Greg Luzinski (played left field like "bull in a china shop")
Center Field: Willie Montanez (only played one season there, before mercifully moving to first base)
Right Field: Pedro Guerrero (it's hard to find a brutal right fielder, because it's a demanding position, but let's go with Pete)
Utility: Curt "Clank" Blefary (jack of all trades, master of errors)

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