Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Friday, April 11, 2014

Tigers Great Denny McLain: Joe Nathan’s Dead Arm Is ‘Ridiculous,’ ‘Excuse’

The Wicker Sham.

Denny McLain threw for well over 300 innings twice in his MLB career, so it should come as no surprise that the Tigers’ legendary right-hander has no remorse for current closer Joe Nathan and his dead arm.

McLain joined Fred Heumann on Mad Dog in the Morning Thursday and ripped into Nathan.

“What the hell is a dead arm? Can you tell me please?” asked McLain, baseball’s last 30-game winner.

“Get a shot of cortisone, put a little dirt on it, Joe, kick yourself in the ass and get out there. I am tired of excuses. Everybody’s got an excuse in this game today. Get dressed, go play. They’re paying you tens of millions of dollars to play the game and you want to come up with a dead arm?”

...McLain called Nathan’s dead arm “ridiculous.”

“Let’s step up, let’s be a man, let’s retire from the game because our arm is tired and let’s find another guy who can pitch, if your arm is dead,” he said. “That’d be the right thing to do, wouldn’t it? Just walk away from the game, leave $30 million on the table and go home? Wouldn’t that be the right thing to do if you can’t help us?”

Repoz Posted: April 11, 2014 at 03:42 PM | 53 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: history

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq. Posted: April 11, 2014 at 03:50 PM (#4684626)
“Get a shot of cortisone, put a little dirt on it, Joe, kick yourself in the ass and get out there. I am tired of excuses. Everybody’s got an excuse in this game today. Get dressed, go play. They’re paying you tens of millions of dollars to play the game and you want to come up with a dead arm?”


Note: Denny McLain pitched 300+ innings two years in a row, then suffered from arm injuries made worse by cortisone shots and was never close to good again.
   2. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: April 11, 2014 at 03:59 PM (#4684641)
Too bad that cortisone doesn't do much good when a mobster steps on your foot and breaks your toes.
   3. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: April 11, 2014 at 04:01 PM (#4684643)
I wonder how much money Denny had riding on Nathan's performance.
   4. cardsfanboy Posted: April 11, 2014 at 04:03 PM (#4684644)
Nathan is already an outlier in that he's a closer who has put 8 seasons with 30 saves and better than an era+ of 150. (Rivera did it 14 times, Wagner 9 times, Hoffman 6 times. (Papelbon has done it 5 times, he's the only active player at 5 or 4--there are 5 who have done it 5 times, and 9 who have done it 4 times) Basically relievers don't put together more than 5 very good seasons as a closer. Closers "destroy" their arms, even if they are still able to go out and pitch, they do not maintain effectiveness for a long career.

It's ridiculous to think "rub a little dirt on it" will fix the problem.
   5. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: April 11, 2014 at 04:07 PM (#4684651)
Is he the biggest idiot ever?
   6. Select Storage Device Posted: April 11, 2014 at 04:08 PM (#4684654)
"Joe Nathan rubs some dirt on it and gets back out there. Is accused of cheating."
   7. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: April 11, 2014 at 04:11 PM (#4684658)
Is he the biggest idiot ever?


Well, apparently he's lost a lot of weight.
   8. Pat Rapper's Delight Posted: April 11, 2014 at 04:12 PM (#4684660)
Is he the biggest idiot ever?

By volume? Maybe so.
   9. Kiko Sakata Posted: April 11, 2014 at 04:12 PM (#4684661)
Is he the biggest idiot ever?


Based on Denny McLain's biography, he's at least in the conversation.
   10. Nasty Nate Posted: April 11, 2014 at 04:35 PM (#4684682)
I thought there was a 2,000 inning minimum requirement to make these types of comments.
   11. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 11, 2014 at 04:42 PM (#4684686)
“That’d be the right thing to do, wouldn’t it?

Moral judgments from a thief that stole the pensions of ordinary working class Americans just because he could? Who gives McLain a platform for such hypocrisy?
   12. Srul Itza Posted: April 11, 2014 at 04:43 PM (#4684688)
"Tigers Great Denny McLain"

Really?

How about "Convicted Felon Denny McLain"?

How about "Noted Embezzler Denny McLain"?

How about "30 Game winner, Two Time Loser Denny McLain"?

   13. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: April 11, 2014 at 05:11 PM (#4684718)
Nathan has looked pretty terrible out there. He's already blown two saves and came darn close to blowing the game last Saturday in which he let inherited runners score. I've always liked Nathan, but if thus far is any indication, the Tigers' fans were premature in celebrating the team's acquisition of a "real" closer after all these years.
   14. Howie Menckel Posted: April 11, 2014 at 05:53 PM (#4684764)
from age 21, McLain pitched 220, 264, 235, 336, and 325 innings in five seasons, winning 108 games and two Cy Young Awards plus an MVP.
then only 91 ineffective innings in 1970 - but a lot of that was the half-season suspension for gambling, and then two other suspensions later in the season.

in 1971, managed to go 10-22 with a 77 ERA+ in 217 IP with the Senators - he missed the last three weeks of July with a sore arm, and it's worth noting that McLain was ######## about MGR Ted Williams using 5 starters in the rotation, not 4.

then McLain's MLB career ends at age 28 in 1972 with a crappy 20 games with Oakland and Atlanta.

I can't say that I agree with him, but I wouldn't be surprised if he talked himself into the idea that everything was fine until they wouldn't let him pitch in the first half of 1970. then he got "babied" in 1971, and that was it.

can't believe Denny made it to age 70, btw

   15. cmd600 Posted: April 11, 2014 at 06:46 PM (#4684793)
"Tigers Great Denny McLain"


If you don't introduce him as such, he doesn't come on your radio show, then Joey the landscaper from Farmington Hills has nothing to call in and tell you you're an idiot about, and then the local window company doesn't put ads on because no one listens. It's a vicious cycle to keep talk radio alive.
   16. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: April 11, 2014 at 06:55 PM (#4684801)
No, in the Detroit market Hansons Windows (1-800-HANSONS) will advertise on anything. Same thing with Sam Bernstein Law Firm with their trademarked "Disability Express" (1-800-CALL-SAM).
   17. KT's Pot Arb Posted: April 11, 2014 at 06:59 PM (#4684804)
there no better expert on pitchers stealing money than Denny McLain.
   18. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: April 11, 2014 at 07:54 PM (#4684834)
Is he seriously pretending not to know what "dead arm" means? Most every pitcher experiences it every spring.
   19. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: April 11, 2014 at 10:39 PM (#4684878)
Who is Denny McLain to judge others? (Of course, I am now judging him, but whatever...)
   20. Greg K Posted: April 12, 2014 at 01:13 AM (#4684929)
Nathan is already an outlier in that he's a closer who has put 8 seasons with 30 saves and better than an era+ of 150. (Rivera did it 14 times, Wagner 9 times, Hoffman 6 times. (Papelbon has done it 5 times, he's the only active player at 5 or 4--there are 5 who have done it 5 times, and 9 who have done it 4 times) Basically relievers don't put together more than 5 very good seasons as a closer. Closers "destroy" their arms, even if they are still able to go out and pitch, they do not maintain effectiveness for a long career.

My fun trivia: not a great start to his Tigers career but Joe Nathan has a chance to save 40 games with 3 different clubs. As far as I know only two others have achieved that. Who are they?
   21. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: April 12, 2014 at 01:24 AM (#4684930)
“What the hell is a dead arm? Can you tell me please?” asked McLain

It's like a dead soul, except sometimes it gets better.
   22. Tom Nawrocki Posted: April 12, 2014 at 01:39 AM (#4684936)
My fun trivia: not a great start to his Tigers career but Joe Nathan has a chance to save 40 games with 3 different clubs. As far as I know only two others have achieved that. Who are they?


Rollie Fingers and Randy Myers?
   23. Dan Posted: April 12, 2014 at 02:08 AM (#4684943)
One has to be Lee Smith
   24. Dan Posted: April 12, 2014 at 02:44 AM (#4684945)
Is the other Billy Wagner?
   25. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: April 12, 2014 at 04:06 AM (#4684953)
Keith Foulke?
   26. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: April 12, 2014 at 04:11 AM (#4684954)
John Wetteland?
   27. Bhaakon Posted: April 12, 2014 at 04:11 AM (#4684955)
It's got to be someone unexpected, like Armando Benitez or Joe Table.
   28. ajnrules Posted: April 12, 2014 at 05:36 AM (#4684957)
Francisco Cordero, maybe?
   29. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: April 12, 2014 at 06:11 AM (#4684958)
Jeff Reardon? Jose Mesa? Randy Myers?
   30. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: April 12, 2014 at 07:11 AM (#4684959)
Hoyt Wilhelm and Rollie Fingers.
   31. Barnaby Jones Posted: April 12, 2014 at 07:15 AM (#4684960)
Looking around randomly, I actually found 4 guys, not 2. One of them is still active and could make it 4 teams this year.
   32. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: April 12, 2014 at 07:38 AM (#4684963)
The record is 30 teams. Didn't last year teach us that Mariano Rivera belongs to every fan in every city?
   33. Barnaby Jones Posted: April 12, 2014 at 07:50 AM (#4684967)
That's why every team retired his number.
   34. Greg K Posted: April 12, 2014 at 08:12 AM (#4684971)
I have to admit, I didn't do a thorough search when I looked into it a couple months ago.

I had Reardon and Francisco Cordero.

I see I missed Jose Mesa, and...ah Valverde!
   35. Barnaby Jones Posted: April 12, 2014 at 08:28 AM (#4684972)
And Wetteland.
   36. Dan Posted: April 12, 2014 at 08:42 AM (#4684974)
Am I missing something? Lee Smith has 180 SV w/CHC, 160 SV w/STL, 58 SV w/BOS, and even almost 40 @ 37 w/CAL and 30 w/BAL. Billy Wagner has 225 w/HOU, 101 w/NYM, 59 w/HOU and almost 40 @ 37 w/ATL

I guess the asker of the question just missed a bunch of guys and 40 saves w/3+ clubs isn't really all that rare?
   37. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: April 12, 2014 at 08:48 AM (#4684976)
Yeah, yeah, fair enough, but apart from Reardon and Cordero and Mesa and Valverde and Wetteland, what have the Romans ever done for us?
   38. bobm Posted: April 12, 2014 at 08:56 AM (#4684978)
Rafael Soriano
   39. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: April 12, 2014 at 08:58 AM (#4684979)
I guess the asker of the question just missed a bunch of guys and 40 saves w/3+ clubs isn't really all that rare?


I thought he was talking about single seasons of 40 saves. Smith and Wagner didn't do that.
   40. bobm Posted: April 12, 2014 at 08:58 AM (#4684980)
I guess the asker of the question just missed a bunch of guys and 40 saves w/3+ clubs isn't really all that rare?

I took it to mean 40+ saves in a single season for each of 3 teams, just like McLain won 30 in a single season.
   41. Dan Posted: April 12, 2014 at 09:13 AM (#4684982)
Ohhhh. That makes more sense then. Didn't read it that way.

Looks like Wagner just misses on that one, 40 save seasons in Houston and the Mets and then 37 in Atlanta.
   42. asinwreck Posted: April 12, 2014 at 10:05 AM (#4684991)
can't believe Denny made it to age 70, btw

Indeed, that has been a disappointment.
   43. RMc's desperate, often sordid world Posted: April 12, 2014 at 10:08 AM (#4684992)
Kwik-kwiz: Who was the very last batter Denny McLain faced in the major leagues?
   44. Jim Wisinski Posted: April 12, 2014 at 12:26 PM (#4685033)
Kwik-kwiz: Who was the very last batter Denny McLain faced in the major leagues?


That's one of those situations where you wish a vortex had opened on the infield and swallowed them both
   45. Mess with the Meat, you get the Wad! Posted: April 12, 2014 at 01:29 PM (#4685050)
Steve garvey? Chris truby?
   46. Srul Itza Posted: April 12, 2014 at 02:02 PM (#4685067)
Two ex-cons to be. Figures.
   47. DanG Posted: April 13, 2014 at 01:22 AM (#4685281)
Most wins, single season since McLain's big year

Rk           Player  W  L ERA+  WAR    IP Year  Tm
1         Bob Welch 27  6  125  3.0 238.0 1990 OAK
2     Steve Carlton 27 10  182 12.1 346.1 1972 PHI
3       Steve Stone 25  7  123  4.0 250.2 1980 BAL
4        Ron Guidry 25  3  208  9.6 273.2 1978 NYY
5    Catfish Hunter 25 12  134  6.9 318.1 1974 OAK
6    Fergie Jenkins 25 12  126  7.7 328.1 1974 TEX
7     Mickey Lolich 25 14  124  8.6 376.0 1971 DET
8        Tom Seaver 25  7  165  7.2 273.1 1969 NYM 

Past 20 years

Rk             Player  W L ERA+  WAR    IP Year  Tm
1    Justin Verlander 24 5  172  8.4 251.0 2011 DET
2       Randy Johnson 24 5  195 10.9 260.0 2002 ARI
3         John Smoltz 24 8  149  7.3 253.2 1996 ATL
4      Curt Schilling 23 7  140  8.7 259.1 2002 ARI
5          Barry Zito 23 5  158  7.2 229.1 2002 OAK
6      Pedro Martinez 23 4  243  9.7 213.1 1999 BOS 
   48. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: April 13, 2014 at 01:48 AM (#4685286)
Oh, how disappointing. Randy Johnson was once the sole owner of a weird and pointless anomaly: he'd been the only pitcher in the history of baseball to have a 24-5 record. But no, that dirty bastard Verlander just had to destroy Unit's singular glory. Which makes him the most detestable sunuvabitch since David Aardsma.
   49. Jeltzandini Posted: April 13, 2014 at 12:41 PM (#4685383)
Tigers’ legendary right-hander has no remorse for current closer Joe Nathan and his dead arm.


Probably the only thing McLain actually shouldn't feel remorse for, unless he fell on Nathan's arm.
   50. BDC Posted: April 13, 2014 at 01:51 PM (#4685424)
the very last batter Denny McLain faced in the major leagues?

The last pitcher Pete Rose faced in the majors was Rich Gossage.
The last batter Gossage faced was Jose Canseco.

I was hoping this would turn into some kind of Holy Blood / Holy Grail of unpleasant baseball players, but the last pitcher Canseco faced was Eddie Guardado, by every account truly a heck of a nice guy.
   51. They paved Misirlou, put up a parking lot Posted: April 14, 2014 at 11:51 AM (#4685895)
Oh, how disappointing. Randy Johnson was once the sole owner of a weird and pointless anomaly: he'd been the only pitcher in the history of baseball to have a 24-5 record. But no, that dirty bastard Verlander just had to destroy Unit's singular glory. Which makes him the most detestable sunuvabitch since David Aardsma.


Before Barry Bonds in 1993, there had been 9 players to win back to back MVPs, and all 9 were distributed almost perfectly around the diamond: 1 each at P, C, 1B, 2B, SS, 3B, and RF. The only spoiler was 2 CF, but obviously one could put one at LF if one were making a team. Bonds made a true LF, but then there were 10 players.
   52. Howie Menckel Posted: April 14, 2014 at 12:48 PM (#4685934)

DH!
   53. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: April 14, 2014 at 12:54 PM (#4685936)
Before Barry Bonds in 1993, there had been 9 players to win back to back MVPs, and all 9 were distributed almost perfectly around the diamond: 1 each at P, C, 1B, 2B, SS, 3B, and RF. The only spoiler was 2 CF, but obviously one could put one at LF if one were making a team. Bonds made a true LF, but then there were 10 players.

and since then there has been 4 more back-to-backers, including Bonds' 4-peat

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Phil Birnbaum
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogESPN: Twins Sign "Out Of Nowhere" Prospect
(1 - 11:16pm, Jul 29)
Last: Davo Dozier

NewsblogOMNICHATTER 7-29-2014
(40 - 11:14pm, Jul 29)
Last: Roger McDowell spit on me!

NewsblogOTP - July 2014: Republicans Lose To Democrats For Sixth Straight Year In Congressional Baseball Game
(3555 - 11:14pm, Jul 29)
Last: Joe Kehoskie

NewsblogWhich Players Will Be Most Affected by the Hall of Fame’s New Rules?
(7 - 11:03pm, Jul 29)
Last: pthomas

NewsblogOT: The Soccer Thread July, 2014
(508 - 11:02pm, Jul 29)
Last: frannyzoo

Hall of MeritMost Meritorious Player: 1957 Discussion
(11 - 11:00pm, Jul 29)
Last: MrC

NewsblogFull Count » Tim Kurkjian on MFB: ‘I’m going to say that Jon Lester is not going to be traded’
(30 - 10:53pm, Jul 29)
Last: Nasty Nate

NewsblogMASN TV Contract Pits Selig vs Nationals vs Orioles
(20 - 10:51pm, Jul 29)
Last: Curse of the Andino

NewsblogSOE: Minor League Manhood - A first-hand account of masculine sports culture run amok.
(10 - 10:43pm, Jul 29)
Last: Der-K and the statistical werewolves.

NewsblogOT: Monthly NBA Thread- July 2014
(1014 - 10:07pm, Jul 29)
Last: robinred

NewsblogHoward: David Ortiz shaping up to become first steroid era Teflon slugger
(26 - 10:06pm, Jul 29)
Last: SoSHially Unacceptable

NewsblogTrader Jack? As Seattle's GM struggles to complete deals, some rival executives wonder | FOX Sports
(58 - 10:02pm, Jul 29)
Last: cardsfanboy

NewsblogValencia traded to Toronto
(12 - 9:52pm, Jul 29)
Last: Davo Dozier

NewsblogABC News: ‘Capital Games’: How Congress Saved the Baseball Hall of Fame
(46 - 9:38pm, Jul 29)
Last: Jose Can Still Seabiscuit

NewsblogBarney + cash to Dodgers for PTBNL
(28 - 8:56pm, Jul 29)
Last: Walt Davis

Page rendered in 0.3385 seconds
52 querie(s) executed