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Wednesday, August 15, 2012

Tigers’ Justin Verlander, Max Scherzer could make strikeout history

Lolich/Coleman were both 7.4 SO/9 while due to a severe, oxy-gagging Nicholsonian game change…Verlander is 8.9 and Scherzer’s at 11.3.

Justin Verlander and Max Scherzer could become the best single-season strikeout duo in Tigers history.

Verlander and Scherzer rank first and second in the American League in strikeouts. If each maintains his current pace, they could strike out at least 240 apiece. According to research done through Baseball-Reference.com, the Tigers have never had two pitchers fan at least 240 hitters in the same season.

The closest they came was in 1971, when Mickey Lolich struck out 308 and Joe Coleman 236. But that was before the DH. Lolich struck out pitchers 37 times in ‘71, and Coleman did so 33 times. (What’s astounding about Lolich’s 1971 season is his innings total: 376. That’s the most for a nonknuckleball pitcher since the pre-1920 Dead Ball Era.)

Verlander leads the AL with 174 strikeouts. Scherzer has 168. Scherzer might pass Verlander when he starts this afternoon against the Twins; if so, Verlander might go back past Scherzer when he pitches against Baltimore on Friday night. This back-and-forth exchange of the league’s strikeout lead could continue to season’s end.

According to Baseball-Reference.com, the last pair of teammates to have 240 strikeouts in the same season were right-handers Kerry Wood and Mark Prior of the 2003 Cubs. Wood led the NL with 266 strikeouts, and Prior had 245.

 

Repoz Posted: August 15, 2012 at 09:57 AM | 23 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: history, tigers

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   1. Random Transaction Generator Posted: August 15, 2012 at 10:43 AM (#4208652)
What does Frank Tanana have to do with it?

For single seasons, From 1901 to 2012, (requiring SO>=240), sorted by greatest number of players matching criteria
                                                                                    
Rk    Year Lg                            Tm         #                       Pitchers
1     2003 NL                  Chicago Cubs         2        Mark Prior / Kerry Wood
2     2002 NL          Arizona Diamondbacks         2 Randy Johnson / Curt Schilling
3     2001 NL          Arizona Diamondbacks         2 Randy Johnson / Curt Schilling
4     1976 AL             California Angels         2      Nolan Ryan / Frank Tanana
5     1973 AL             California Angels         2       Nolan Ryan / Bill Singer
6     1968 AL             Cleveland Indians         2      Sam McDowell / Luis Tiant
7     1963 NL           Los Angeles Dodgers         2    Don Drysdale / Sandy Koufax


Complete list
   2. Rants Mulliniks Posted: August 15, 2012 at 10:48 AM (#4208656)
Scherzer is puzzling to me. I don't know how you can K that many guys, maintain a reasonable walk rate, and still suck.
   3. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: August 15, 2012 at 10:55 AM (#4208658)
Also Scherzer's stats get BETTER when there are runners on base than when the bases are empty. And better still with RISP.

?!?
   4. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 15, 2012 at 11:01 AM (#4208661)
Scherzer is puzzling to me. I don't know how you can K that many guys, maintain a reasonable walk rate, and still suck.


I've wondered this for a while also. I guess his HR, BB, and hits rates are all just a wee bit too high.
   5. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: August 15, 2012 at 11:10 AM (#4208668)
Looking back at the early 70s Tigers, the roster construction looks like it's from a completely alien era possibly centuries in the past. Year after year Lolich and Coleman combined to start over half the Tigers' games. In 1972 Lolich, Coleman and Tom Timmermann started 48 of the first 59 games, and those 59 games included four double-headers.

Most relievers averaged 2 innings per appearance. I don't know how to find snapshots of what the 25-man roster looked like on a given day, but how many pitchers do we think Billy Martin had on his roster? 8?

Particularly in the 1973 season, there was a platoon at almost every position. Only the team's three worst hitters played a full season of games (3B Aurelio Rodriguez, SS Ed Brinkman, CF Mickey Stanley). I was marveling at this a few days ago when Au-Rod was determined to be the worst hitter ever to lead his team in RBIs.
   6. RMc's desperate, often sordid world Posted: August 15, 2012 at 11:14 AM (#4208671)
Justin Verlander and Max Scherzer could become the best single-season strikeout duo in Tigers history.

It would also be nice if they could, you know, win a game occasionally. In the Tigers last 18 games, they have one victory apiece.

Scherzer is puzzling to me. I don't know how you can K that many guys, maintain a reasonable walk rate, and still suck.

Having a .363 BAbip doesn't help.
   7. RMc's desperate, often sordid world Posted: August 15, 2012 at 04:17 PM (#4209027)
...and today, Scherzer shuts out the Twins for seven innings. 4 hits, 2 BB, 10 K.
   8. jack the seal clubber (on the sidelines of life) Posted: August 15, 2012 at 04:30 PM (#4209041)
Justin Verlander and Max Scherzer could become the best single-season strikeout duo in Tigers history.

It would also be nice if they could, you know, win a game occasionally. In the Tigers last 18 games, they have one victory apiece.


I still consider this to be one of the most puzzling statistics in baseball history:

324-292 .526

Understanding that wins and losses can be arbitrary..how did he wind up not doing better than this? 222 CGs, 61 SO, 5,714K....still don't get it.
   9. They paved Misirlou, put up a parking lot Posted: August 15, 2012 at 04:33 PM (#4209047)
Understanding that wins and losses can be arbitrary..how did he wind up not doing better than this? 222 CGs, 61 SO, 5,714K....still don't get it.


2795.
   10. jack the seal clubber (on the sidelines of life) Posted: August 15, 2012 at 04:40 PM (#4209055)
He was crazy wild early in his career (204 walks in 1977!). But those numbers leveled off..75-80 was the norm his last fifteen years..Still very strange. Just about every hitter named him as the one pitcher they didn't want to face..Koufax was 165-87 (probably the other guy that got mentioned as much as the least favorite pitcher to face..) Granted Koufax pitched for better teams.

I have a hard time seeing Scherzer as ever being an ace due to his Jekyll/Hyde routine.
   11. SoSH U at work Posted: August 15, 2012 at 04:50 PM (#4209062)
He was crazy wild early in his career (204 walks in 1977!). But those numbers leveled off..75-80 was the norm his last fifteen years..Still very strange.


He didn't pitch for very good teams for the bulk of his career (more specific, he didn't pitch for terribly good offensive teams, since Nolan's W-L record wasn't going to benefit because he happened to be teammates with Seaver, Tanana and peak Mike Scott). And his ERA+ was only 112, so it's not as if he was spectacular at run prevention.

His W-L record looks a little lower than what we might expect, based on everything we know about Nolan and the teams he played for, but I don't think it's terribly out of line.
   12. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: August 15, 2012 at 04:58 PM (#4209067)
I still consider this to be one of the most puzzling statistics in baseball history:

324-292 .526

Understanding that wins and losses can be arbitrary..how did he wind up not doing better than this? 222 CGs, 61 SO, 5,714K....still don't get it.
Ryan had a 112 ERA+ for his career. 12% better than average. .526 is 13% better than an average (.500) winning percentage. That doesn't seem implausible.
   13. Alex meets the threshold for granular review Posted: August 15, 2012 at 04:59 PM (#4209068)
One of my favorite stats: Nolan Ryan had 7 no-hitters, which is more than the number of games in which he pitched 9 innings and didn't walk anybody.
   14. They paved Misirlou, put up a parking lot Posted: August 15, 2012 at 05:02 PM (#4209071)
One of my favorite stats: Nolan Ryan had 7 no-hitters, which is more than the number of games in which he pitched 9 innings and didn't walk anybody.


Cool. I was at one of them, 10 innings with 0 walks actually.
   15. Cooper Nielson Posted: August 15, 2012 at 10:36 PM (#4209385)
Also Scherzer's stats get BETTER when there are runners on base than when the bases are empty. And better still with RISP.

In his quotes after today's game, Scherzer mentioned he had to "bear down" (or something like that) after walking the first two batters in the second inning. He then struck out the side and went on to have one of his best starts of the year.

It's very possible this is purely a mental thing. He's obviously got the talent to be a successful pitcher, maybe it's just a matter of getting him to take every single batter seriously.
   16. Howie Menckel Posted: August 15, 2012 at 11:24 PM (#4209398)
"Looking back at the early 70s Tigers, the roster construction looks like it's from a completely alien era possibly centuries in the past."

several interesting teams, especially AL, from this time

The 1970 Orioles used only 12 pitchers all season (including 4 Fred Beene appearances).

Only 6 men got starts: McNally 40, Cuellar 40, Palmer 39, Phoebus 21, Hardin 19, MLopez 3
top 3 SPs with 899 of the team's 1479 IP that year.

   17. They paved Misirlou, put up a parking lot Posted: August 15, 2012 at 11:57 PM (#4209412)
The 1970 Orioles used only 12 pitchers all season (including 4 Fred Beene appearances).

Only 6 men got starts: McNally 40, Cuellar 40, Palmer 39, Phoebus 21, Hardin 19, MLopez 3
top 3 SPs with 899 of the team's 1479 IP that year.


The 1971 White Sox were pretty similar. Only 11 pitchers with more than 6 IP. 2 pitchers started half their games, 3 started 116. Top 3 pitched 848 of 1450 innings.
   18. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: August 16, 2012 at 12:06 AM (#4209415)
One of my favorite stats: Nolan Ryan had 7 no-hitters, which is more than the number of games in which he pitched 9 innings and didn't walk anybody.


If I'm not mistaken, it was awfully deep into Nolan's career before he accomplished the latter feat for the first time.

   19. Voros McCracken of Pinkus Posted: August 16, 2012 at 12:08 AM (#4209417)
I have a hard time seeing Scherzer as ever being an ace due to his Jekyll/Hyde routine.

Which one is the blue one and which one is brown?
   20. Dan Posted: August 16, 2012 at 12:41 AM (#4209429)
If Nolan Ryan came up today, how many starts would he have gotten before being pigeonholed as a setup guy/future closer? Seems like a guy with that kind of fastball and only really one secondary pitch would be instantly made into a short reliever after posting one 5+ BB/9 season, if not even earlier.
   21. Random Transaction Generator Posted: August 16, 2012 at 12:52 AM (#4209431)
One of my favorite stats: Nolan Ryan had 7 no-hitters, which is more than the number of games in which he pitched 9 innings and didn't walk anybody.


If I'm not mistaken, it was awfully deep into Nolan's career before he accomplished the latter feat for the first time.


He did it 5 times, and the earliest was June 12, 1983, which was game number 493 (of 807) for him.
He had already thrown 5 no-hitters by that time.

   22. God Posted: August 16, 2012 at 05:58 AM (#4209460)
One of the main reasons Nolan Ryan got less run support than you'd expect was Nolan Ryan's batting. Just as one of the reason Nolan Ryan gave up more runs than you might expect was because of Nolan Ryan's fielding.
   23. DanG Posted: August 16, 2012 at 09:51 AM (#4209521)
Tiger teams with multiple pitchers having 174+ SO:

Rk   Year Lg             Tm                                 #Matching
1    2012 AL Detroit Tigers         2 Max Scherzer Justin Verlander
2    2011 AL Detroit Tigers         2 Max Scherzer 
Justin Verlander
3    2010 AL Detroit Tigers         2 Max Scherzer 
Justin Verlander
4    1974 AL Detroit Tigers         2     Joe Coleman 
Mickey Lolich
5    1973 AL Detroit Tigers         2     Joe Coleman 
Mickey Lolich
6    1972 AL Detroit Tigers         2     Joe Coleman 
Mickey Lolich
7    1971 AL Detroit Tigers         2     Joe Coleman 
Mickey Lolich
8    1969 AL Detroit Tigers         2    Mickey Lolich 
Denny McLain
9    1968 AL Detroit Tigers         2    Mickey Lolich 
Denny McLain
10   1967 AL Detroit Tigers         2     Mickey Lolich 
Earl Wilson
11   1965 AL Detroit Tigers         2    Mickey Lolich 
Denny McLain 

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