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Baseball Primer Newsblog— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand
Thursday, October 25, 2012
“I’m not upset about him or anything he says, but what bothers me is the perception of me and the other coaches is completely wrong,” he told ESPNBoston.com. “That bothers me because of what the coaches went through this year and what we dealt with. I did exactly what (general manager) Ben (Cherington) asked me to do. I’m not saying I did everything perfect because I didn’t and I know that.”
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1. ColonelTom Posted: October 25, 2012 at 11:27 AM (#4282931)Exactly, Valentine is the lowest, most vile manager ever by the fact he continues to throw everyone under the bus, Youk, Aviles, Papi, coaches and others. I am waiting for him to take a shot at Pedroia, Ellsbury, Salty all of the guys who played hard all of time. But having said all of that, the GM should have allowed this clown to bring in his own staff. The very fact that they were reporting the GM underminds everything Valentine does or says to the club. Clearly Valentine was in over his head and did not realize the beast Redsox Nation is but all of the fault goes to Luccino for not letting the GM hire who he wanted in the first place.
It's an absurd structure, warranting (though not mandating) the firing of Cherington.
1. Bogar doesn't say he's reporting to the GM, or bypassing Valentine; he says only he's doing his job as it's been relayed to him: "I did exactly what (general manager) Ben (Cherington) asked me to do." And if there's a problem in the lines of communication (not type, but line) then it appears Valentine is completely at fault. FTA:
2. "the only bad communication was between Bobby and everyone. He's the bench coach. His whole job is to communicate with the manager." FTA: (Aviles talking) We know what kind of manager Valentine is. To me, this whole article reads: Players would talk to Bogar, Bogar would relay communication to Valentine (what JJ1986 claims is "his whole job"), Valentine screams at everyone.
From everything I've read (admittedly, I'm not as close to the situation as Sox fans, especially Boston-area Sox fans, are), Valentine is a classic bully boss: He screams at or demeans everyone, acts like he's the only one who knows how anything works, won't take any advise from any of his workers, then when things go south he blames those same underlings. I've worked for guys like this, and it's a pleasure to see them leave.
That in itself is a disloyal comment, inappropriately revelatory of things that should be kept in-house. Being publicly critical of your boss isn't really the sharpest idea.
He shut you out because he didn't trust you -- that's probably also something you don't want to put into the public domain.
At this point, I don't think being critical of Bobby V is going to damage your reptuation around the sport, other than with the tiny nitwit brigade that somehow think the genius was done wrong in Boston.
Sad. Truly sad.
All managers want to be the smartest guy in the room (see TLR, Showalter), but it only works when you are winning, otherwise you become Capatain Queeg (even if the decisions you make are technically correct).
I don't think Valentine is necessarily a bully boss so much as he is really really bad at communicating. Compare it to the TJ Simers arguments we have 'round here from time to time. I think Valentine assumes people "get him" and when they don't he blames them. At some point when everyone else has a problem with you, it's highly likely that you are the problem.
It seems to me that very early on the trust between Valentine and the coaching staff completely broke down and a lot of bad things resulted. I think the majority of the blame for that goes to Valentine but I don't think it's a coincidence that the Sox seem ready to let the entire coaching staff walk away too. From what I read this year (and this piece doesn't help) I wouldn't touch Bogar with a ten foot pole. I think the best thing you can say about him is that he wasn't part of the problem but he damned sure didn't seem to be part of the solution either.
Sure it is; that's why Bogar's talking to the press to begin with. See TFA, wherein Bogar says exactly that: "Now, whenever I get called for another job, the first thing they ask is, 'So what's the deal with what happened between you and Bobby and why would he say you undermined him?' So I have to explain myself."
That indicates that Bobby V talking about Bogar was damaging his reputation - not Bogar publicly replying to Bobby V that is doing it.
I disagree; would you want someone with sharp knives and the demonstrated ability to use them as well as familiarity and comfort with leaking unflattering information as your #2? What it he doesn't like one of your decisions and nasty second-guessing comes out in the press later? Do you suspect this guy?
At this point, I don't think being critical of Bobby V is going to damage your reptuation around the sport, other than with the tiny nitwit brigade that somehow think the genius was done wrong in Boston.
It never helps you to air private dirt about former employers or colleagues in public. Even if you were 100% in the right, future employers and colleagues will trust you less, and worry you'll do the same to them.
Edit: coke to TVerik
It never helps you to air private dirt about former employers or colleagues in public. Even if you were 100% in the right, future employers and colleagues will trust you less, and worry you'll do the same to them.
Obviously it's never a good idea. But the point I'm making is that I don't think Bogar is really doing himself any damage here, because I suspect Bobby Valentine's name is mud throughout baseball circles as a result of his behavior over the past 12 months. Moreover, Bogar wasn't launching some pre-emptive strike, but merely responding to Bobby's latest bit of dung hurling.
None of this changes the fact that just about every damn member of the Sox coaching staff should be ashamed of how the 2012 season played out. That's what Bogar should be worried about in terms of his future, not because he defended himself against a laughingstock.
None of this changes the fact that just about every damn member of the Sox coaching staff should be ashamed of how the 2012 season played out. That's what Bogar should be worried about in terms of his future, not because he defended himself against a laughingstock.
I would agree that 90% of the damage to Bogar comes from being on the 2012 staff, vs. 10% for not issuing a more bland statement.
I don't think this is a situation like that, though. Valentine is using a "scorched earth" tactic that would make Sherman proud; if someone's to blame for the way this is playing out in the press, it sure isn't the coaches.
I dunno. I see Bogar defending himself against Valentine, and I see two players (one of whom is as close to being the face of the franchise as they have) backing Bogar up.
Again - we know what kind of guy Valentine is; I'm surprised he hasn't thrown the groundskeeper under the bus yet (maybe that's next week's interview...).
We all know he won't say a damn thing about the groundskeeper. That's the guy who knows where all the bodies are buried.
Bingo.
We all know what a shiitheel Valentine is. Valentine has already said a ton of things attacking his former players and coaches. If I'm Bogar and I want my credibility to remain intact, then responding to such attacks in a concise, clear form is the very first thing I do, because I damn well know people are going to believe me over Bobby ####### Valentine.
Bobby Valentine is pretty clearly a terrible human being. I wouldn't let such a horrible person shape public view of me through his public statements, you're ####### right I'd fire back immediately.
Oh and Mr. Henry, your Liverpool squad is also wallowing in mediocrity.
Don't Bogar the objective pipe
He was good with Vanilla Fudge, but then he went too far.
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