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Friday, November 27, 2009

Tim Marchman: No, no, no pt. 2

Wrong Hoyt, Buster! Nah…it’s not an Axton answer song. It’s Marchman with an Edgar/Mattingly mosh.

Buster Olney is a terrific reporter, if not one who’s especially suited to ESPN’s multiplatformality and now-now-NOWism, but this, on Edgar Martinez, is out there:

  I think that Martinez’s candidacy is a lot like that of Don Mattingly: They were superlative players, but in the end, their greatness wasn’t sustained long enough.

He goes on to cite RBI stats that show… something, though I don’t know what.

Martinez’s candidacy isn’t anything like Mattingly’s. He had about a dozen great seasons; Mattingly had six if you’re being generous. Martinez had eight seasons in which he hit about as well as Mattingly did in his best. (Of course Mattingly was also a good defensive player.)

Martinez didn’t play the field, so there’s an argument to be made against his candidacy. I don’t really buy it—the lack of fielding value more keeps him from being classed among the 50 best everyday players of all time than from being classed as a Hall of Famer, I think—but there’s a debate to be had. There isn’t really a debate to be had between him and Mattingly. To tell the truth I doubt there would be one even if Mattingly hadn’t hurt his back. Sure, he had a nice run. So did Boog Powell.

Repoz Posted: November 27, 2009 at 03:47 AM | 11 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: hall of fame, history, mariners, sabermetrics

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   1. Anonymous Observer Posted: November 27, 2009 at 04:02 AM (#3397485)
If there's any Mariner whose Hall of Fame credentials needs to be discussed/debated, it's not Edgar Martinez. It's Ichiro. Have his credentials/chances been talked about here before?

AO
   2. Ray (RDP) Posted: November 27, 2009 at 04:47 AM (#3397495)
Martinez essentially defines my border for the HOF. Mattingly is... somewhere comfortably below that.
   3. Ray (RDP) Posted: November 27, 2009 at 04:56 AM (#3397498)
(This year's Hall ballot, by the way, seems guaranteed to provoke injustice what with Martinez, Barry Larkin and Tim Raines all unlikely to go in a year after Juan Gonzalez did. At least they won't meet the fate of Will Clark!)


Juan Gonzalez. Heh. Yes, basically Jim Rice, with a shorter career.
   4. Barnaby Jones Posted: November 27, 2009 at 05:19 AM (#3397502)
Olney is right. Both Mattingly and Martinez were great players for a set period of time, but who ultimately didn't sustain that greatness for a long enough period of time. That Martinez is a better candidate doesn't invalidate that general statement. I'm not sure what Marchman is whining about.
   5. Ray (RDP) Posted: November 27, 2009 at 05:43 AM (#3397507)
Buddy Ebsen: The problem is that Olney's statement (at least the one I read; I didn't read Olney's piece) implies that Mattingly and Martinez are equally valid candidates, when that is not the case.
   6. Jarrod HypnerotomachiaPoliphili(Teddy F. Ballgame) Posted: November 27, 2009 at 08:04 AM (#3397520)
Let's save a thread--who's more deserving of the HOF, Ichiro or Edgar?
   7. Harvey Berkman Posted: November 27, 2009 at 11:07 AM (#3397526)
Juan Gonzalez. Heh. Yes, basically Jim Rice, with a shorter career.


Let's save a thread--who's more feared, Juan Gone or Jim Rice?
   8. Dan The Mediocre Posted: November 27, 2009 at 03:06 PM (#3397563)
Olney is right. Both Mattingly and Martinez were great players for a set period of time, but who ultimately didn't sustain that greatness for a long enough period of time. That Martinez is a better candidate doesn't invalidate that general statement. I'm not sure what Marchman is whining about.


I have to disagree. Martinez is 38th in Adjusted Batting Wins, so he was easily good enough in his short career.
   9. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: November 27, 2009 at 03:08 PM (#3397564)
Let's save a thread--who's more feared, Juan Gone or Jim Rice?

Kevin Mitchell.
   10. Designated Sitter (GGC) Posted: November 27, 2009 at 04:37 PM (#3397605)
Maybe if you are a cat, Shooty. BTW, awesome lead-in. Where did Repoz get that brain of his? I want one like it.
   11. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: November 27, 2009 at 04:39 PM (#3397607)
Maybe if you are a cat, Shooty. BTW, awesome lead-in. Where did Repoz get that brain of his? I want one like it.

Hey, he had that year and a half when he was feared. I'm a peak voter when it comes to TEH FEAR.

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