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Friday, December 07, 2018

Tim Tebow will get major-league promotion if he deserves it, Mets GM Brodie Van Wagenen says

NEW YORK — Celebrity outfielder Tim Tebow is still a Met, and general manager Brodie Van Wagenen and chief operating officer Jeff Wilpon talked him up during their appearance on WFAN Wednesday.

“We need him at Syracuse,” said Wilpon, referencing the Mets-owned Triple-A affiliate. “He’s a great person.”

As Van Wagenen put it: “One step away.”

So, how on Earth did a guy with so little judgment in terms of talent ever get a job as an agent, much less be a success as one?

QLE Posted: December 07, 2018 at 06:25 AM | 45 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: brodie van wagenen, mets being mets, tim tebow

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   1. Hank Gillette Posted: December 08, 2018 at 01:00 AM (#5795262)
I have no doubt that he will get a major-league promotion if he deserves it. The fear is that he will get one when he doesn’t deserve it.
   2. Adam Starblind Posted: December 08, 2018 at 09:14 AM (#5795278)
I'm not sure how you interpret this statement as reflecting a lack of judgment. It's 100% platitude.
   3. Howie Menckel Posted: December 08, 2018 at 10:43 AM (#5795290)
he had a .734 OPS in AA last year on a team with a .716 OPS, and now is headed to AAA.

if he gets off to a good start and a couple of Mets OFs get hurt and he spends 10 days in MLB, the world won't come to an end. I can't speak for BBTF's fate, however.
   4. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 08, 2018 at 10:48 AM (#5795291)
I have no doubt that he will get a major-league promotion if he deserves it

Translation: How many Tebow jerseys can we sell in September?
   5. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: December 08, 2018 at 10:55 AM (#5795294)
Notice what he doesn't say: "Tim Tebow will not get a major-league promotion unless he deserves it."
   6. cardsfanboy Posted: December 08, 2018 at 11:17 AM (#5795299)
Notice what he doesn't say: "Tim Tebow will not get a major-league promotion unless he deserves it."


ehh, a guy 25th on the roster that is probably about replacement level getting promoted over others because of publicity, happens pretty often. Mitch Harris for the Cardinals and Jim Morris for the Rangers are both notable examples in relatively recent memory and I'm pretty positive I'm forgetting several others over the past decade.
   7. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: December 08, 2018 at 11:35 AM (#5795305)
Fine. The actual quote is less than meaningless though. There isn't the least bit of doubt that Tebow wouldn't be promoted if his play merited it. Kris Bryant he is not.
   8. bbmck Posted: December 08, 2018 at 12:11 PM (#5795312)
NEW YORK — Outfielder Matt den Dekker is a Met, and general manager Brodie Van Wagenen and chief operating officer Jeff Wilpon talked him up during their appearance on WFAN Wednesday.
“We need him at Las Vegas,” said Wilpon, referencing the Mets-owned Triple-A affiliate. “He’s a great person.”
As Van Wagenen put it: “One step away.”

Vegas has a team .803 OPS, Matt has .825 OPS on the season, gets called up to the Mets in July and has .095 OPS while going hitless in 8 games and 21 PA. Somehow an average AAA OF gets called up and struggles, if the same thing happens in 2019 heads will explode.
   9. cardsfanboy Posted: December 08, 2018 at 12:13 PM (#5795313)
Kris Bryant he is not


Correct, which is why if there is any reason to promote him, they might as well do it. It's not going to ever cost them more money, it's only issue is a spot on the 40 man roster that might have to be worked around, beyond that though, promote if he isn't any noticeably worse than any other option, and especially if some of the other options are going to accumulate real ml playing time that might affect their future salaries from the team viewpoint.
   10. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 08, 2018 at 12:48 PM (#5795326)
Talking up a team's minor league players is part of a GM's job. This is the 1st year of the Mets Syracuse connection (they bought the team), so touting the players there should be expected. Why folks see more than that here is a mystery.
   11. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: December 08, 2018 at 12:59 PM (#5795333)

Tebow has been a surprisingly cromulent minor leaguer. I assume they won’t promote him unless/until it looks like the team won’t compete this year, and at that point I wouldn’t have much of a problem with it. It makes more sense than having Mike Glavine on the MLB roster to please Tom.

Brodie was Tebow’s agent so I’m sure he’s still going to try to say nice things about the guy.
   12. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 08, 2018 at 01:03 PM (#5795336)
Talking up a team's minor league players is part of a GM's job. This is the 1st year of the Mets Syracuse connection (they bought the team), so touting the players there should be expected. Why folks see more than that here is a mystery.

Why anyone ever saw the 29 year old Tebow's signing as anything more than a Michael Jordan style publicity stunt is an even bigger mystery.
   13. cardsfanboy Posted: December 08, 2018 at 01:12 PM (#5795338)
Why anyone ever saw the 29 year old Tebow's signing as anything more than a Michael Jordan style publicity stunt is an even bigger mystery.


Why not take a chance with anyone? If he manages to work himself up to a replacement level player that you can parlay into ticket sales and press without hurting the team in anyway, why wouldn't you do it?
   14. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 08, 2018 at 01:13 PM (#5795339)
Why anyone ever saw the 29 year old Tebow's signing as anything more than a Michael Jordan style publicity stunt is an even bigger mystery.

In fairness to Tebow, he's done better than many, here & elsewhere, expected. A lot better than Jordan. Still seems unlikely that he can shake off the rust and accelerate his learning curve enough to make it to MLB, but it's not like he's blocking anyone better. IIRC, the other outfielders on his team last year weren't all that great. There seems to be considerable unwarranted hostility to even letting Tebow try. Must be a lot of people still nursing football grudges,
   15. Howie Menckel Posted: December 08, 2018 at 01:16 PM (#5795342)
a bigger mystery is why anyone would compare Jordan - who posted an OPS a full 106 points below his team's average in AA - to Tebow, who was 18 points above his team (he's also 2 years younger than Jordan was).

Jordan had the lowest OPS on his entire team.

a lot of comments about Tebow seem cut-n-pasted from a couple of years ago, results be damned.

I don't see him making it in MLB, but being stuck in 2016 mode is not a good look for a 'thinking fan.'
   16. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 08, 2018 at 01:41 PM (#5795355)
All 3 of those above comments don't negate the fact that Tebow's signing was nothing but a publicity stunt. What he's done in AA compared to Jordan is irrelevant, and being 18 points better than your AA teammates doesn't exactly scream Major League prospect. He's got little power (14 HR in 210 games), no speed whatever (3 SB / 2 CS), and a career .244 BA.

No team would sign a 29 year old retired football player unless he were a celebrity. No team would sign any other former pro quarterback who hadn't played baseball since high school. No team would entertain promoting any 31 year old AA player with Tebow's numbers for even a millisecond.

CFB's got the only sensible response, which is this is all about ticket sales, and "not hurting the team" only could apply to a team like the September Mets, a team that likely couldn't be "hurt" any more than it already will be by September if it started a lineup of Miss America contestants.

------------------------------------------------------------------

a lot of comments about Tebow seem cut-n-pasted from a couple of years ago, results be damned.

"Results be damned" applies far more to your comment than mine, unless we're now in Bizarro World.

Hell, Joey Terdoslavich, who was Tebow's Binghamton teammate, put up an .840 OPS to Tebow's .734, with twice as many home runs in 10 fewer games. Are the Mets putting out publicity teasers about him?
   17. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: December 08, 2018 at 01:54 PM (#5795362)
My main takeaway from the Tebow saga is that if the 17-year-old Timmy had quit an inferior sport in order to focus on baseball, instead of the other way around, he might have had a legitimate MLB career. I also imagine him as a AAAA kind of guy who retires with 4 or so years of service time, and then because of his personality ends up with a long career in or around the game.

I think it's not accurate to compare this to the Jordan Experience because there's no Jerry Reinsdorf here, and no dead father or whispers about gambling issues.
   18. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 08, 2018 at 02:02 PM (#5795365)
Hell, Joey Terdoslavich, who was Tebow's Binghamton teammate, put up an .840 OPS to Tebow's .734, with twice as many home runs in 10 fewer games. Are the Mets putting out publicity teasers about him?

Did anyone ask about Terdoslavich? Quite likely that Mets official would have talked him up, possibly noting that he's but one step from MLB and could be promoted if he plays well. Even when minor leaguers have bad years, the usual public response is that the player may rebound. The only difference is that for most players such comments generate little or no news coverage, or mention at BBTF.
   19. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 08, 2018 at 02:03 PM (#5795367)
I think it's not accurate to compare this to the Jordan Experience because there's no Jerry Reinsdorf here, and no dead father or whispers about gambling issues.

That's a fair point if all you're saying is that Tebow is a better minor league player at 31 than Jordan was at 30. It's an irrelevant point if you're using it to say that either of those signings, or that teaser about Tebow possibly being called up "if he deserves it", are anything more than publicity stunts.
   20. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 08, 2018 at 02:07 PM (#5795371)
Hell, Joey Terdoslavich, who was Tebow's Binghamton teammate, put up an .840 OPS to Tebow's .734, with twice as many home runs in 10 fewer games. Are the Mets putting out publicity teasers about him?

Did anyone ask about Terdoslavich? Quite likely that Mets official would have talked him up, possibly noting that he's but one step from MLB and could be promoted if he plays well. Even when minor leaguers have bad years, the usual public response is that the player may rebound. The only difference is that such comments usually generate little or no news coverage.


Right, and "news coverage" is the only reason that the 29 year old Tebow was signed to begin with, in the hope of selling jerseys and goosing minor league attendance. It had nothing to do with any realistic assessment of his chances of actually making the Mets.

I suppose there's nothing wrong with signing a player for purely publicity reasons, either Eddie Gaedel or Tim Tebow. Just don't pretend it was anything else.
   21. Hank Gillette Posted: December 08, 2018 at 05:15 PM (#5795420)
There seems to be considerable unwarranted hostility to even letting Tebow try. Must be a lot of people still nursing football grudges,


I would be fine if he could actually play. My takeaway is that he showed he could compete at the NFL level (in certain circumstances), and could have stayed had he been willing to switch positions or make the effort to learn to throw a decent pass. Why give up on something that you are close to being good at to take an unlikely chance that you could learn to play ML baseball in your late 20s?
   22. Hank Gillette Posted: December 08, 2018 at 05:18 PM (#5795421)
I suppose there's nothing wrong with signing a player for purely publicity reasons, either Eddie Gaedel or Tim Tebow. Just don't pretend it was anything else.


Hey, Gaedel was a good on-base guy. It would have been interesting to see if pitchers could have adjusted to his six-inch strike zone once the novelty of his size wore off. Starting an away game with a man on first nearly every time would have to have been worth something.
   23. Howie Menckel Posted: December 08, 2018 at 05:43 PM (#5795425)
now Tebow is Eddie Gaedel.
that ditch keeps getting deeper.

why they signed him is one thing, what he is doing is another. he's not showing that he's a MLB player and he's not showing that he's nothing but a publicity stunt, at this point. what makes that so difficult to swallow?
   24. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 08, 2018 at 05:44 PM (#5795426)
Hey, Gaedel was a good on-base guy. It would have been interesting to see if pitchers could have adjusted to his six-inch strike zone once the novelty of his size wore off. Starting an away game with a man on first nearly every time would have to have been worth something.

The only problem is that that one advantage would've required that you use one of your 25 roster spots with a player who'd have to be removed for a pinch runner every time he got on base.
   25. Ziggy is done with Dominican discotheques Posted: December 08, 2018 at 06:15 PM (#5795430)
if it started a lineup of Miss America contestants.


Don't give Bill Veeck any ideas.
   26. Tom Nawrocki Posted: December 08, 2018 at 08:50 PM (#5795437)
Hell, Joey Terdoslavich, who was Tebow's Binghamton teammate, put up an .840 OPS to Tebow's .734, with twice as many home runs in 10 fewer games. Are the Mets putting out publicity teasers about him?


Terdoslavich is only a year younger than Tebow. Better get rid of him too lest anyone think he's a mere publicity stunt.
   27. Adam Starblind Posted: December 08, 2018 at 08:54 PM (#5795438)
This is supposed to be fun. Lighten up.
   28. jmp Posted: December 08, 2018 at 09:44 PM (#5795443)
Why would Jordan need to do a publicity stunt? What specific level of publicity was he trying to reach that he didn't already have?
   29. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 09, 2018 at 01:51 AM (#5795469)
Why would Jordan need to do a publicity stunt? What specific level of publicity was he trying to reach that he didn't already have?

It's wasn't Jordan or Tebow who needed (or I should say wanted) the publicity. It was the owners who signed them. I'm sure that both Jordan and Tebow were perfectly sincere in their quests to see if they had actual baseball skills. So are thousands of other equally talent-free ballplayers with no chance of ever actually being good enough to make the Major Leagues. You can't blame them for dreaming.
   30. jmp Posted: December 09, 2018 at 06:58 AM (#5795472)
It was the owners who signed them


Why would Reinsdorf want Jordan to quit playing for the Bulls so that he could ride a bus with Terry Francona?
   31. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: December 09, 2018 at 08:48 AM (#5795478)
This is supposed to be fun.


I think that if it actually were fun, people would be more OK with it.
   32. Adam Starblind Posted: December 09, 2018 at 09:06 AM (#5795479)
Plenty of casual fans get a modest kick out of the fact that Tim Tebow is playing minor league baseball for the Mets. They'd also buy tickets to see him debut in August when (errr...if) the team is 22 games behind the Braves.
   33. Greg K Posted: December 09, 2018 at 09:20 AM (#5795482)
I get being skeptical of Tebow when this whole thing started. I'm not sure I'd want my team wasting a minor league roster spot on a player with no on-field value whatsoever.

But are the minor leagues really full of guys who would do better than he has so far? I imagine there are plenty of Mets minor leaguers with less chance of ever contributing to a major league team.
   34. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 09, 2018 at 10:18 AM (#5795486)
It was the owners who signed them

Why would Reinsdorf want Jordan to quit playing for the Bulls so that he could ride a bus with Terry Francona?


In Reinsdorf's case he had no choice, since once Jordan decided to play baseball it was either sign Jordan for a White Sox affiliate or let some other team get the publicity. But obviously if he'd had his druthers Jordan would've stuck with basketball. The Mets had no such excuse.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Plenty of casual fans get a modest kick out of the fact that Tim Tebow is playing minor league baseball for the Mets. They'd also buy tickets to see him debut in August when (errr...if) the team is 22 games behind the Braves.

They'd probably buy even more tickets to see Eri Yoshida try to float her knuckle ball past Ronald Acuna.
   35. Howie Menckel Posted: December 09, 2018 at 10:53 AM (#5795487)
maybe ERROR can give us an OPS that Tebow must put up at AAA this year that would lead him to permit the Mets to recall him if a couple of OFs get injured. we know that .734 and just above team average doesn't past muster.

.834?
.934?
1.034?
1.134?

higher?
   36. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 09, 2018 at 11:13 AM (#5795489)
Well, Howie, an .834 in AAA would put Tebow exactly on the level of another red hot Mets prospect, Zach Borenstein, who BTW also had 25 home runs to Tebow's 6 in Binghamton.

Why wasn't Zach brought up this year? Was he considered too old at 27?
   37. eric Posted: December 09, 2018 at 11:15 AM (#5795490)
My concern is that the .734 OPS is a mirage. He had 103 Ks in 298 PAs last year in AA, with no power. That's a .417 babip by my calculation. I suspect that isn't sustainable, especially as he advances levels. I bet in AAA he bats below .220 with no power, but somehow manages a brief call-up anyways once the Mets' fate for the season is sealed. I'd probably take the under on a .650 AAA OPS for him.
   38. McCoy Posted: December 09, 2018 at 11:19 AM (#5795494)
Well, the PCL is an inflated offensive environment league and Vegas is no exception.
   39. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 09, 2018 at 11:29 AM (#5795497)
My concern is that the .734 OPS is a mirage. He had 103 Ks in 298 PAs last year in AA, with no power. That's a .417 babip by my calculation. I suspect that isn't sustainable, especially as he advances levels. I bet in AAA he bats below .220 with no power, but somehow manages a brief call-up anyways once the Mets' fate for the season is sealed. I'd probably take the under on a .650 AAA OPS for him.

Here's Howie's chance to cash in on his fandom.
   40. eric Posted: December 09, 2018 at 11:32 AM (#5795498)
Well, the PCL is an inflated offensive environment league and Vegas is no exception.


Yes, excellent points. Let me revise that: A .650 OPS in AA would be 90.7% of Binghamton's .716. Applying the same ratio to the Las Vegas team's .803 from last year yields a .729. Sticking to round numbers, I'll take the under on a .730 OPS for Tim in AAA. However, that makes the chances of his promotion much higher because the team can always point to his .250/.310/.400 line as "reasonable" even though he'd be well below average. I will not be giving everyone in this thread gobs of money if he does in fact manage a .730+ OPS in AAA. If not, though, I reserve the right to gloat.
   41. Howie Menckel Posted: December 09, 2018 at 11:33 AM (#5795499)
Tebow will be playing for the Mets' AAA team that is now based in Syracuse.

as for 37, that's a reasonable analysis and projection. it also has nothing to do with the question I asked in 35.
   42. McCoy Posted: December 09, 2018 at 11:35 AM (#5795500)
The PCL comment was for Andy.
   43. eric Posted: December 09, 2018 at 12:23 PM (#5795507)
Why can't you guys keep my facts straight??

Well, sign me back up for an under .650 OPS in AAA.
   44. Adam Starblind Posted: December 09, 2018 at 04:41 PM (#5795562)

They'd probably buy even more tickets to see Eri Yoshida try to float her knuckle ball past Ronald Acuna.


And she would be taking a bullpen spot away from who exactly? [smile emoticon]

   45. Adam Starblind Posted: December 09, 2018 at 04:53 PM (#5795563)
My concern is that the .734 OPS is a mirage. He had 103 Ks in 298 PAs last year in AA, with no power. That's a .417 babip by my calculation. I suspect that isn't sustainable, especially as he advances levels. I bet in AAA he bats below .220 with no power, but somehow manages a brief call-up anyways once the Mets' fate for the season is sealed. I'd probably take the under on a .650 AAA OPS for him.


I agree with all of this, by the way. Under no realistic circumstances do I want to see him in Flushing, with the caveat there only for the 1.000+ OPS floated in post 35.

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