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Tuesday, June 12, 2012

T.J. Simers: Dodgers’ Stan Kasten spins it his way, leaves your head spinning

Simers’ spin quantum number is now greater than the Plaschke constant.

Maybe Kasten is an acquired taste. Maybe he will turn out to be what the Dodgers need to make an economic go of it after being left bankrupt. Maybe first impressions are not his strength.

But right now, what a blowhard.

“I have two rules for broadcasters and the media,” he says. “These are my rules: If it’s personal or not true, then I’m going to have a problem, OK? And there are issues I don’t want to talk about and that’s my right.”

That sounds like three rules.

...“You should always count on me accentuating the positive; you should always count on that,” he says. “You should always count on me defending everything we do and every person who works for me and when we make mistakes I’ll try to own up to it, but I’ll always be accentuating the positive. That’s what I do.”

We all know people who talk a lot and say nothing. For the most part we try to avoid them.

Repoz Posted: June 12, 2012 at 05:54 AM | 211 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dodgers

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   1. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: June 12, 2012 at 07:29 AM (#4154451)
We all know people who talk a lot and say nothing. For the most part we try to avoid them.


Yes we do, TJ, and yet, here we are. Stuck with your pointless blathering, yet again.
   2. philistine Posted: June 12, 2012 at 07:44 AM (#4154456)
No, you don't, Bring Me, because here you are again making your inane kneejerk comments about someone you find pointless.

Simers' writing isn't pointless. He is highlighting the emptiness of Kasten's and, later, Magic Johnson's, comments. Simers gives examples and explains what is wrong with what Kasten is doing. Did any other LA writer comment on Kasten's stupidity? You want this sort of thing to go unchallenged:

We fell short in other ways," Kasten says.

When asked to explain what that means, he says, "It means what it means."

And what does that mean?

"Just leave it at that," says Kasten.
   3. Greg (U)K Posted: June 12, 2012 at 08:03 AM (#4154458)
Interesting development of the word "blowhard". Simers appears to be using it along the lines of someone who talks a lot without saying anything. 19th century use is more along the lines of boastfulness.

I wonder if this is the product of a conflation of "blowhard" and "blowing hot air" (which I assume has unrelated origins?...I can't seem to nail it down)

Language fascinating is!
   4. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: June 12, 2012 at 08:07 AM (#4154462)
He is highlighting the emptiness of Kasten's and, later, Magic Johnson's, comments.


There are exactly two sentences about Magic Johnson in the piece, one of which was composed by Johnson himself. That's some great "highlighting", TJ.

Oh, and Johnson's big sin? Saying something nice about Jaime Jarrin on Jaime Jarrin Tribute Night. Because that's really the time for brutal honesty and hard-hitting investigative journalism about the quality of the team's broadcasts.

You want this sort of thing to go unchallenged:


If it means that I never have to read another of Simers's lame grandpa jokes or his stupid backwards-ass logic again? Yes, yes, a thousand times yes!

Kasten was being evasive during an interview by a trolling ####-stirrer? Oh, my stars and garters! Fetch the smelling salts, Mabel!
   5. Lassus Posted: June 12, 2012 at 08:12 AM (#4154463)
I'm starting to wonder if philistine is Simers' sockpuppet.

I do think Kasten and Johnson should be challenged, but Simers' body of work in the past decade makes it impossible to think he's the person to be doing it.
   6. philistine Posted: June 12, 2012 at 08:17 AM (#4154464)
Interesting development of the word "blowhard".

I take his use of blowhard to refer to the type of person who says:
"I'm like this and this is the way I am. You'll just have to accept me because I don't plan to change. So forgive me when I only look at the positive side of things, but I'm a positive guy."

Kasten reveals a sort of empty posturing and unquestioning belief in his self to be a certain way, which he is putting a positive spin on and apparently apologizing for, while actually boasting about, it. In that sense blowhard kind of covers the blustering side of the meaning of boastful.

Kasten is also consciously laying a trap for anyone who might criticize him (hey, I may be overpositive, but don't we all want the best for the Dodgers - we don't need your negative comments round here) and, of course, at the same time unwittingly revealing a completely different character trait altogether. This is kind of blowhard-ish, more than just blowing hot air.
   7. Greg (U)K Posted: June 12, 2012 at 08:24 AM (#4154466)
#6 I didn't mean it as a criticism of Simers exactly. I think his use of blowhard is the conventionally understood meaning of the word. I just find it interesting how language moves over time.

Apologies if I've stepped into some kind of Simers battleground.
   8. philistine Posted: June 12, 2012 at 08:30 AM (#4154470)
#7 I didnt take it to be a criticism. I was merely engaging in the interesting debate that you opened on the meaning of blowhard. Apologies if my reply appeared in any way defensive. It was not intended as such. I took the meaning as used by TJ to mean a blustering pompous person.
   9. philistine Posted: June 12, 2012 at 08:40 AM (#4154472)
I do think Kasten and Johnson should be challenged, but Simers' body of work in the past decade makes it impossible to think he's the person to be doing it.

Unless you are either his sockpuppet, or are intelligent enough to read and understand what he is actually saying. I would say the exact opposite and declare that it is impossible to think he would do anything other than challenge that sort of comment. And even if his previous work were as empty and spiteful as many here would claim, to forbid him from being able to change and and write any future work of merit or purpose is something I would not have expected from a poster like you Lassus.
   10. Greg (U)K Posted: June 12, 2012 at 08:46 AM (#4154473)
#7 I didnt take it to be a criticism. I was merely engaging in the interesting debate that you opened on the meaning of blowhard. Apologies if my reply appeared in any way defensive. It was not intended as such. I took the meaning as used by TJ to mean a blustering pompous person.

No worries. I don't know much about Simers, but I do vaguely recall he is controversial in these parts so I perhaps jumped the gun on assuming I was getting dragged into that. I would be curious if anyone knows where the idiom about blowing hot air comes from. For some reason I like to think it has something to do with the advent of balloon travel.

I guess I can see how Kastens as described by Simers could fit a sort of hybrid role. He's patting himself on the back for being so positive about everything. Passive-Agressively presenting himself as a great guy.
   11. Dan Posted: June 12, 2012 at 08:47 AM (#4154475)
Since this is a Dodgers thread: Dodgers sign Ethier to a 5 year/85M extension with a vesting 6th year.

source
   12. Dan The Mediocre Posted: June 12, 2012 at 09:03 AM (#4154476)
Unless you are either his sockpuppet, or are intelligent enough to read and understand what he is actually saying. I would say the exact opposite and declare that it is impossible to think he would do anything other than challenge that sort of comment. And even if his previous work were as empty and spiteful as many here would claim, to forbid him from being able to change and and write any future work of merit or purpose is something I would not have expected from a poster like you Lassus.


Unless you are either his sockpuppet or don't remember much of the things Simers has written, I don't see how you can think anyone is going to want to have an actual conversation with him. He does little but troll and whine. I guess Kasten should have been thinking of the fact that Simers is on a deadline and said things he could easily criticize instead of trying to be a noncontroversial leader of a local sports team.

Since this is a Dodgers thread: Dodgers sign Ethier to a 5 year/85M extension with a vesting 6th year.


Sounds about right assuming his performance doesn't crash soon.
   13. Lassus Posted: June 12, 2012 at 09:06 AM (#4154477)
And even if his previous work were as empty and spiteful as many here would claim, to forbid him from being able to change and and write any future work of merit or purpose is something I would not have expected from a poster like you Lassus.

It appears one of us has the sockpuppet definition wrong, and as far as I know it's me, but that's neither here nor there.

I'm not forbidding him from change in the slightest. I'm saying that after reading him for the past ten years, the grain of salt that now comes with his work is a massive boulder I don't care to deal with. Boy Who Cried Wolf syndrome - even if he's dead right and brilliantly fair and insightful here, it's basically too late.
   14. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: June 12, 2012 at 09:07 AM (#4154479)
And even if his previous work were as empty and spiteful as many here would claim, to forbid him from being able to change and and write any future work of merit or purpose is something I would not have expected from a poster like you Lassus.


I guess it's not impossible that Simers might have a road-to-Damascus moment and decide to put in the work to become a good writer, but you'd have to think that if he were capable of doing good work, he'd have done some by now. If only by chance.
   15. fra paolo Posted: June 12, 2012 at 09:30 AM (#4154492)
I don't know much about Simers, but I do know that Nationals' fans were often entertained by Chris Needham's Kasten-speak translator on the Capitol Punishment blog.

This could be a case of the unspeakable in pursuit of the unbearable. Or something like that.
   16. philistine Posted: June 12, 2012 at 09:39 AM (#4154500)
You want this sort of thing to go unchallenged

Kasten was being evasive during an interview by a trolling ####-stirrer? Oh, my stars and garters! Fetch the smelling salts, Mabel!

Why not just say: 'Yes, I want this sort of thing to go unchallenged!" You should go on to say that I also want anyone who challenges this to be lambasted as a pointless troll.

Or as Simers says: "Now when you can't explain the small stuff, what happens when it comes time to comment on monumental decisions?"

I don't know much about Simers .... could be a case of the unspeakable...

No you don't know much about Simers but seem no less informed than most on here.
   17. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: June 12, 2012 at 09:50 AM (#4154506)
Why not just say: 'Yes, I want this sort of thing to go unchallenged!"


Because my way was more entertaining.

Simers has a reputation as a troll and a ####-stirrer. No serious person is going to engage with him on the issues. As such, he's not in a position to successfully "challenge" anyone about anything.

Or as Simers says: "Now when you can't explain the small stuff, what happens when it comes time to comment on monumental decisions?"


There's a difference between not being able to explain the small stuff and choosing not to explain the small stuff to a jackass. Even if Kasten doesn't have an answer to that question, Simers is never going to be able to demonstrate that fact, since nobody with an ounce of sense would willingly talk to TJ Simers about anything.

Simers likes to pretend that he doesn't understand how that dynamic works, but I refuse to believe that even he could be that stupid and self-absorbed.
   18. Cris E Posted: June 12, 2012 at 09:54 AM (#4154510)
There's a difference between a pointless smart-*ss response and an actual directed, logical and professionally delivered follow-up question. Simers isn't Chris Matthews here or anywhere else. His interviews are rambling, pointless and sarcastic, whereas a trip to Hardball is like going to work. The tone is different and Simers is rarely doing much more than farting around regardless of the cool PRESS card he keeps tucked in his hatband.

EDIT: There's a difference between my comment and Vlad's, but when you post without updating a thread the line can get blurred. What he said.
   19. Randy Jones Posted: June 12, 2012 at 09:58 AM (#4154519)
Let me just say that I agree with Vlad and Cris here. Simers is not worth wasting time on, for the people who he is "covering"(trolling) or for anyone considering reading his columns. He is a hack, but that is apparently what the LA Times looks for in sportswriters.
   20. philistine Posted: June 12, 2012 at 10:09 AM (#4154522)
His interviews are rambling, pointless and sarcastic

Bring Me was praising him for his concise economy of style earlier.

There are exactly two sentences about Magic Johnson in the piece, one of which was composed by Johnson himself. That's some great "highlighting", TJ.
   21. Stretch Posted: June 12, 2012 at 10:23 AM (#4154534)
I don't know much about Simers, but I do know that Nationals' fans were often entertained by Chris Needham's Kasten-speak translator on the Capitol Punishment blog.


I was truly hoping that Simers had used Needham for this piece.. oh well.
   22. fra paolo Posted: June 12, 2012 at 10:40 AM (#4154548)
I was truly hoping that Simers had used Needham for this piece.. oh well.

RTFA, I see Kasten up to his old tricks again. The Dodgers apparently couldn't offer something Soler wanted, but it definitely wasn't money, and Stan's not telling TJ.

And I predict he won't tell anyone.

He'll just make inscrutable comments, worthy of a Zen master.

Stan the Zen Man is full of unspoken wisdom, and his virtues may seem similarly obscure.
   23. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: June 12, 2012 at 10:41 AM (#4154550)
Bring Me was praising him for his concise economy of style earlier.

"There are exactly two sentences about Magic Johnson in the piece, one of which was composed by Johnson himself. That's some great 'highlighting', TJ."


Taking two sentences to say nothing of value isn't "economical". It's just two wasted sentences.
   24. TerpNats Posted: June 12, 2012 at 10:58 AM (#4154569)
Washington says, enjoy Stan, Los Angeles...and be thankful you already have good product on the field, because he really won't do much to improve things -- he'll just talk a lot.
   25. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: June 12, 2012 at 11:03 AM (#4154574)
RTFA, I see Kasten up to his old tricks again. The Dodgers apparently couldn't offer something Soler wanted, but it definitely wasn't money, and Stan's not telling TJ.

And I predict he won't tell anyone.


My guess is that it's the voidable arb years. Those suck a lot of the upside out of the deal, so the Dodgers wouldn't want to include them, and they're the sort of technical detail that'd be a nightmare to try and explain to a guy like Simers, who knows nothing about baseball. Or business.
   26. philistine Posted: June 12, 2012 at 11:08 AM (#4154581)
But why is it nothing of value? Johnson's phrase meant nothing and was insincere. What is the point of such empty tributes? To demonstrate insincerity is not pointless. Whereas pretending it isn't there is harmful.

It also made me wonder how Johnson would have reacted if some TV journalist in LA had dared to suggest someone other that him was the best player on the team. I think such writing is pointful. You prefer for such insincerity to go unchallenged and are among the majority.
   27. DA Baracus is gritty and hits with RISP Posted: June 12, 2012 at 11:11 AM (#4154585)
Either philistine has never read TJ Simers before or he is TJ Simers. It's the only reason someone would actually defend him.
   28. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: June 12, 2012 at 11:15 AM (#4154588)
What is the point of such empty tributes?


To make people feel good. No one got harmed and everyone had a wonderful time.

Reading the article I haven't figured out what Simers is trying to get at. Corporation speaks in generic corporate-speak is hardly newsworthy. If Simers has a specific complaint or concern, he did a horrible job of demonstrating it.
   29. base ball chick Posted: June 12, 2012 at 11:27 AM (#4154602)
dear philistine

the trouble with simers is that most of the time he pokes at otherwise harmless athletes to try to get them to say something even the slightest bit wrong so he can blast them. he's a bully.

anyone who would say anything whatsoever to him is a fool.

this poses a significant problem when simers, for once, wants to discuss a subject seriously instead of doing his usual poke with the long stick at the lion in the cage.
   30. Dan The Mediocre Posted: June 12, 2012 at 11:28 AM (#4154604)
But why is it nothing of value? Johnson's phrase meant nothing and was insincere. What is the point of such empty tributes? To demonstrate insincerity is not pointless. Whereas pretending it isn't there is harmful.


a) Why is it worthy of mention if it means nothing?

b) Why must it "be challenged"? Are we upset that they didn't say things to imply strife? Are we mad that they didn't say something offensive? I just don't see why it is worthy of mention. No intelligent business person is going to say things in public to attract negative attention, especially in a business that's all about entertainment and publicity. In the end it simply looks like Simers is angry that they appear to have a PR setup that isn't incompetent.
   31. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: June 12, 2012 at 12:02 PM (#4154638)
But why is it nothing of value? Johnson's phrase meant nothing and was insincere.


a) How do you know that Johnson's statement wasn't sincere? Simers certainly doesn't offer any evidence that it wasn't. Jarrin has had a long and distinguished career, and it's certainly possible for a reasonable person to believe that he has the "best voice" in the industry. Particularly someone like Johnson, who used to work as a sports broadcaster himself. And what about all the other people who complemented Jarrin in the montage? Were they equally insincere? Did their praise also "mean nothing"? If so, then why only write about Johnson and his remarks?

b) Let's say, for the sake of argument, that it did mean nothing. Why, then (as Dan asks), is it worth writing about at all? Was it just that slow a news day, that eight largely-inconsequential pre-recorded words by Magic Johnson were the most important story in town?

What is the point of such empty tributes?


To demonstrate respect and affection for a colleague and a beloved local figure?

Why are people usually polite when they give a eulogy at a funeral, instead of talking about how the deceased was a lazy son-of-a-#####? Because that's the sort of occasion it is.
   32. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: June 12, 2012 at 12:23 PM (#4154661)
In the end it simply looks like Simers is angry that they appear to have a PR setup that isn't incompetent.


Bingo!
   33. philistine Posted: June 12, 2012 at 12:27 PM (#4154665)
a) Why is it worthy of mention if it means nothing?

It is worthy of mention if it is funny. TJ tries to get laughs.

Athletes are a legitimate target for humor if they demonstrate pomposity, insincerity or any other vice. It is the law of satire. Simers is not a bully, nor is he cowardly nor are his targets random. He is a beat writer so he wants people to speak to him. If they don't, they get lampooned. Likewise, if what they say is insincere or pompous or self-indulgent. He is rarely harsh towards athletes merely playful and provocative. He reserves his venom for the owners.

Reading the article I haven't figured out what Simers is trying to get at. Corporation speaks in generic corporate-speak is hardly newsworthy. If Simers has a specific complaint or concern, he did a horrible job of demonstrating it.

But it is newsworthy if the new owner isn't prepared to answer questions. Why is it not newsworthy for an LA beat writer? Why do you people get so upset with the messenger when he points out your ownership stinks? Why don't you get upset with the ownership instead of thinking well it's always like that. It's always like that because you want it that way. People got more upset with Simers than they did about the parking lot attendant. Seems Kasten can state any old crap in the press conference and you guys get angry with the only guy who'll call him out on it.
   34. philistine Posted: June 12, 2012 at 12:33 PM (#4154669)
In the end it simply looks like Simers is angry that they appear to have a PR setup that isn't incompetent.

Can you honestly read the article and state you think that Simers believes the PR setup is competent? Or that Simers appears angry? What a strange reading of the article.
   35. Lassus Posted: June 12, 2012 at 12:37 PM (#4154674)
Seems Kasten can state any old crap in the press conference and you guys get angry with the only guy who'll call him out on it.

Considering how many years Simers called out players or anyone at all for refusing to answer whatever petty, dickish, trolling question he was asking that week, you can still seriously doubt why no one cares if he tries to call out ownership? Reap, sow, etc.
   36. philistine Posted: June 12, 2012 at 12:49 PM (#4154691)
Considering how many years Simers called out players or anyone at all for refusing to answer whatever petty, dickish, trolling question he was asking that week, you can still seriously doubt why no one cares if he tries to call out ownership?

There are two unfair points in that statement. His questions are, in my experience, invariably justifiable. He doesn't ask personal questions about private life, He asks about baseball, as he has a right to do. He may do it in a way that appears petty or dickish, but that is a matter of whether you find him funny or not. But the questions are justifiable. If you can find one that isn't, please quote it.

The second point is that his management criticism is not a new thing. Usually, people here complain about him using the same parking lot attendant gag all the time.
   37. Lassus Posted: June 12, 2012 at 12:50 PM (#4154694)
His questions are, in my experience, invariably justifiable.

Your opinion on this is not widely shared.


He may do it in a way that appears petty or dickish

Then perhaps he should try doing it some other way.


If I'm in the unreasonable minority, so be it.
   38. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: June 12, 2012 at 01:00 PM (#4154705)
It is worthy of mention if it is funny. TJ tries to get laughs.


Ah, so it was a failed attempt at humor! Now I see.

So why did Simers think that particular thing would be funny? From where I'm sitting, it doesn't exactly seem to be bursting with comic potential.

Athletes are a legitimate target for humor if they demonstrate pomposity, insincerity or any other vice.


And where does Simers provide any evidence that Johnson wasn't being sincere, again? Or are we just supposed to take that bit on faith?

But it is newsworthy if the new owner isn't prepared to answer questions.


It's newsworthy if the new owner isn't willing to answer questions for a real journalist, but Simers isn't one of those, and he forfeited the privilege of being treated like one a long time ago.

Why do you people get so upset with the messenger when he points out your ownership stinks?


To the best of my knowledge, he's never written about my team's ownership group.

People got more upset with Simers than they did about the parking lot attendant.


Which would tell you something about Simers and the way he conducts himself professionally, if you stopped to think about it for a minute.


   39. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: June 12, 2012 at 01:05 PM (#4154715)
If I'm in the unreasonable minority, so be it.


Don't worry - you aren't.
   40. philistine Posted: June 12, 2012 at 01:10 PM (#4154722)
No, don't worry Lassus. You are not in the unreasonable minority at all.

You rely on kneejerk reactions and received ideas and make assertions based on prejudice and impressions rather than quoting real examples. You are part of the unreasonable majority who wants nothing to change
   41. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: June 12, 2012 at 01:12 PM (#4154723)
And where does Simers provide any evidence that Johnson wasn't being sincere, again? Or are we just supposed to take that bit on faith?


I was just devoting some thought to this, while I was sitting on the can, and I think I figured it out. Simers is saying that Johnson wasn't being sincere because deep down, Simers is jealous of Jarrin. Simers resents the fact that Jarrin could spend his life covering sporting events without ending up as a pariah and a walking joke, so he tells himself that the testimonials and the fan enthusiasm at the event were insincere and meaningless. After all, if the grapes were sour anyway, he doesn't need to regret that he'll never have the chance to eat them himself.

And even if he can't quite bring himself to believe that it's true, using his soapbox to piss on Jarrin's parade is the next best thing.
   42. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: June 12, 2012 at 01:14 PM (#4154725)
You rely on kneejerk reactions and received ideas and make assertions based on prejudice and impressions rather than quoting real examples.


Can you provide "real examples" of Lassus "making assertions based on prejudice"? Or are you just a big ol' hypocrite who's displaying "kneejerk reactions" while complaining about them in the same breath?
   43. gef the talking mongoose Posted: June 12, 2012 at 01:25 PM (#4154741)
I think it's great that philistine lives by the principle of "Stand By Your Man." I hope (s)he & Simers have many more happy years together.
   44. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: June 12, 2012 at 01:30 PM (#4154752)
It is the law of satire. Simers is not a bully...


The law of satire says that it's only funny to punch up, and not down. Which explains why so much of Simers's "humor" isn't actually funny. When he picks on a guy like Marcus Thames, he's punching down, taking advantage of his position as a well-known and highly-paid media figure to piss on a hard-working guy from humble circumstances because he isn't funny interview material - a skill that has literally nothing to do with Thames's actual job.

So, yeah, sorry to disappoint you, but Simers IS a bully. That's his whole deal.
   45. DA Baracus is gritty and hits with RISP Posted: June 12, 2012 at 02:01 PM (#4154783)
Oh come on Vlad, that article was clearly hilarious. He introduces himself to Thames by calling him horrible! Gut laugh! He calls a guy who had to support his family while he was in high school a stiff! Comedy gold!
   46. streak of perros Posted: June 12, 2012 at 02:45 PM (#4154824)
Simers can be a dick. That's his schtick, and a successful one. That he's got plenty of haters is not disconnected to why he's still around. But in this instance, I don't get the complaints. He's taking on management on important issues, and tweaking the idea that Magic Johnson is a savior.

Not that I really care all that much. Newspapers aren't even good as fishwrap anymore.
   47. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: June 12, 2012 at 02:54 PM (#4154839)
tweaking the idea that Magic Johnson is a savior


How is Jarrin's day connected in any way to the idea that "Magic Johnson is a savior"? Because I'm not getting the connection at all.
   48. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: June 12, 2012 at 03:02 PM (#4154853)
He's taking on management on important issues, and tweaking the idea that Magic Johnson is a savior.


I don't see him taking on management in important issues in this piece though. Maybe he is but he seems to be whining that Kasten doesn't say much. These guys have owned the club for about six weeks and Simers' big complaint seems to be that Magic said something nice about Jaime Jarrin on Jaime Jarrin Day and the team President (Kasten) likes to put a positive spin on things.

Simers could have taken the mature approach and dug into the vague "it wasn't about the money" answer on Soler but he's just looking to be snarky.
   49. zenbitz Posted: June 12, 2012 at 03:16 PM (#4154875)
I literally (LITERALLY) have not seen anyone on BBTF defend a sportswriter the way philistine has defend Simers today.
   50. Teufel's Graveyard Posted: June 12, 2012 at 06:52 PM (#4155060)
I'd say that there's a decent chance that philistine is an alternate account of a certain member who enjoys taking the contrary point of view. The name itself suggests anti-intellectualism, which I don't think is an accident.
   51. Zipperholes Posted: June 12, 2012 at 07:11 PM (#4155072)
Simers can be a dick. That's his schtick, and a successful one. That he's got plenty of haters is not disconnected to why he's still around. But in this instance, I don't get the complaints. He's taking on management on important issues, and tweaking the idea that Magic Johnson is a savior.
Every thread here seems to become a referendum on the entire career of the person in question, or a verdict on his character. That people can't evaluate events and arguments on their own merits is troubling.
   52. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: June 12, 2012 at 08:02 PM (#4155118)
Every thread here seems to become a referendum on the entire career of the person in question, or a verdict on his character. That people can't evaluate events and arguments on their own merits is troubling.


This column sucked on its own merits.

There. Happy?
   53. philistine Posted: June 12, 2012 at 08:39 PM (#4155141)
I But in this instance, I don't get the complaints. He's taking on management on important issues, and tweaking the idea that Magic Johnson is a savior.

But he nearly always takes on management. And when he doesn't, he takes on self-important or rude jerks like Marcus Tims and even that is an indirect stab at management, as with Tims in the piece Bring refers to and here with the Ethier reference.

OK, so players grow up with an ill mother or as an orphan, but at what point do they have to start talking to people in a normal way and not use the third person to talk about themselves? Philistine doesn't like that and doesn't think that it is a normal way to behave even if every athlete does it. But Philistine does thank God that He has given me the chance and the words to express my (or is it his? - am I still in the third person?) opinion.
   54. streak of perros Posted: June 12, 2012 at 08:41 PM (#4155143)
How is Jarrin's day connected in any way to the idea that "Magic Johnson is a savior"? Because I'm not getting the connection at all.


He was poking fun at Earvin, not at Jarrin. I don't read Simers very often, but I'd wager he's knocked Johnson in the triple digits already.
   55. base ball chick Posted: June 12, 2012 at 08:49 PM (#4155147)
52. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: June 12, 2012 at 08:02 PM (#4155118)
Every thread here seems to become a referendum on the entire career of the person in question, or a verdict on his character. That people can't evaluate events and arguments on their own merits is troubling.


This column sucked on its own merits.


no
on its own DEmerits
   56. philistine Posted: June 12, 2012 at 08:51 PM (#4155150)
Dear Base Ball Chick

You play on words. I don't understand your objections. Could you please provide examples?

Yours
Philistine
   57. streak of perros Posted: June 12, 2012 at 08:51 PM (#4155151)
I always feel compelled to defend Simers, though Shredder's done the best job over the years. If I'm remembering correctly.

Here's the way to handle Simers.
   58. philistine Posted: June 12, 2012 at 09:02 PM (#4155162)
Well, I agree Perros - that is such a fun article. However, BBC says that only a fool would talk to him.

I look forward to future exchanges between Albert and TJ. Hopefully Pujols won't mind BBC calling him a fool for the next 10 years.
   59. base ball chick Posted: June 12, 2012 at 09:15 PM (#4155174)
53. philistine Posted: June 12, 2012 at 08:39 PM (#4155141)
I But in this instance, I don't get the complaints. He's taking on management on important issues, and tweaking the idea that Magic Johnson is a savior.


- what exact issue with management did he take on here?
I mean, besides his stick at jarrin


But he nearly always takes on management. And when he doesn't, he takes on self-important or rude jerks like Marcus Tims


- clue me
you have ANY references to marcus thames being any sort of jerk?
or "self-important"?
seems to me the one here who is the self-important jerk is simers, who comes up to someone he's never met, can't be bothered to introduce himself, then says something extremely RUDE - and "rude" is not saying it strongly enough. simers is lucky he didn't he a good fast punch int eh nose.


OK, so players grow up with an ill mother or as an orphan, but at what point do they have to start talking to people in a normal way and not use the third person to talk about themselves?


like since when does marcus Thames talk like Rickey? I have never heard anywhere that he was a jerk or disliked when he played for either the Tigers or NYY. there is absolutely ZERO excuse for simers' extreme rudeness
   60. Srul Itza Posted: June 12, 2012 at 09:26 PM (#4155180)
At this point it is reasonably clear that philistine is a troll, pure and simple, if not also a sock puppet.

Don't waste your breath on him. That is what "ignore" is for.

   61. base ball chick Posted: June 12, 2012 at 09:49 PM (#4155200)
dear philistine,

it's like this

1 - investigating ownership/criticizing ownership is what a reporter should do. however, it really isn't the best strategy to bring down the extremely rich and powerful by posting pics of their cleaning ladies and making fun of how fat/ugly/old they are. And it's too bad that he gets his kicks from trying to get people to agree to publically humiliate themselves because every now and then, he actually writes a good column when he stops that shtt.

2 - doing the criticizing of ownership by hitting an employee who can't hit back is what bullies do. the only possible response to simers' - so when did you stop beating your wife - question to Marcus Thames was for the guy to do exactly what he did and just walk away. there WAS no reply to a question like that.


albert pujols is no fool and i'm sure that his PR folks have already given him nice polite saying nothing lines to give back to simers. albert, unlike marcus thames, really doesn't have the option of not speaking to simers. however, the probability that simers can get albert to humiliate himself is not real too good.
   62. philistine Posted: June 13, 2012 at 03:53 AM (#4155342)
I dont remember exactly his Thames encounter. I certainly dont recall the When did you stop beating your wife question. My memory is that Thames refused to speak to him, which I consider to be rude. If the team has briefed their players not to talk to Simers, then that is foolish of them, IMO. It seems you disagree and think that good PR is to ignore him or refuse to answer any questions. You seem to be in the majority.

The thing is, Albert doesn't need to be instructed by PR people not to rise to Simers' bait. Albert deals with it and wins the exchanges. Simers loved the exchange and wants to lose them. He just enjoys the banter as it gives him good copy for his column. Why would it be good PR to stop it?

At this point it is reasonably clear that philistine is a troll, pure and simple, if not also a sock puppet.

Don't waste your breath on him. That is what "ignore" is for.


Srul, in the world of Primer, it is some achievement to be the biggest jerk on here. I salute you. I suspect that even in a room full of lawyers you'd stand out as an arse.
   63. philistine Posted: June 13, 2012 at 04:01 AM (#4155345)
1 - investigating ownership/criticizing ownership is what a reporter should do. however, it really isn't the best strategy to bring down the extremely rich and powerful by posting pics of their cleaning ladies and making fun of how fat/ugly/old they are.

Who does that? Simers?

And it's too bad that he gets his kicks from trying to get people to agree to publically humiliate themselves because every now and then, he actually writes a good column when he stops that shtt.

He doesn't want players to humiliate themselves. He wants them to engage in his dressing room banter and is quite happy for these players to score points off him as long as they play the game. If they refuse to talk to him, as a beat writer, what course does that leave him to take?

- what exact issue with management did he take on here?

How come I;m the one accused of trolling? Haven't we been over this a dozen times? It's not a big issue, but it looks like it will become one. From one article by and a couple of minor jabs from Simers, it has become very clear to me what sort of person Kasten is, which seems to coincide with what the Nats posters say about him. Vide infra as Fra Paolo might say.
   64. Dan The Mediocre Posted: June 13, 2012 at 04:33 AM (#4155349)
Srul, in the world of Primer, it is some achievement to be the biggest jerk on here. I salute you. I suspect that even in a room full of lawyers you'd stand out as an arse.


I see what is going on here.
   65. streak of perros Posted: June 13, 2012 at 05:01 AM (#4155354)
"There is a fine old story about a student who came to a rabbi and said, ‘In the olden days there were men who saw the face of God.  Why don’t they any more?’  The rabbi replied, ‘Because nowadays no one can stoop low enough.’”  (C. G. Jung, Memories, Dreams, Reflections, p. 355)

   66. streak of perros Posted: June 13, 2012 at 05:06 AM (#4155355)
 “Just as we tend to assume that the world is as we see it, we naively suppose that people are as we imagine them to be.  In this latter case, unfortunately, there is no scientific test that would prove the discrepancy between perception and reality.  Although the possibility for gross deception is infinitely greater here than in our perception of the physical world, we still go on naively projecting our own psychology into our fellow human beings.  In this way everyone creates for himself a series of more or less imaginary relationships based essentially on projection.  Among neurotics there are even cases where fantasy projections provide the sole means of human relationship.  A person whom I perceive mainly through my projections is an imago or, alternately, a carrier of imagos or symbols.  All the contents of our unconscious are constantly being projected into our surroundings, and it is only by recognizing certain properties of the objects as projections or imagos that we are able to distinguish them from the real properties of the objects.  But if we are not aware that a property of the object is a projection, we cannot do anything else but be naively convinced that it really does belong to the object.  All human relationships swarm with these projections; anyone who cannot see this in his personal life need only have his attention drawn to the psychology of the press in wartime.  Cum grano salis [Latin for with a grain of salt], we always see our own unavowed mistakes in our opponent.  Excellent examples of this are to be found in all personal quarrels.  Unless we are possessed of an unusual degree of self-awareness we shall never see through our projections but must always succumb to them, because the mind in its natural state presupposes the existence of such projections.  It is the natural and given thing for unconscious contents to be projected.  In a comparatively primitive person this creates that characteristic relationship to the object, which Levy-Bruhl has fittingly called ‘mystic identity’ or ‘participation mystique.’  Thus every normal person of our time, who is not reflective beyond the average, is bound to his environment by a whole system of projections.”

                                                      Jung, C. G., Collected Works, “The Structure and Dynamics of the Psyche,” Volume 8, par. 507.
   67. Srul Itza At Home Posted: June 13, 2012 at 05:30 AM (#4155357)
Remember, children: Please don't feed the trolls.
   68. philistine Posted: June 13, 2012 at 06:29 AM (#4155368)
Remember, children: Please don't feed the trolls.

Children? Who do you think you are?

Can you provide "real examples" of Lassus "making assertions based on prejudice"? Or are you just a big ol' hypocrite who's displaying "kneejerk reactions" while complaining about them in the same breath?

Well Lassus is aligning himself with the majority who see the word Simers and say what a jerk. You embody this prejudice Bring, and I merely react to your posts to point out their erroneousness. Maybe I should stop feeding the trolls.

However I want to challenge that kneejerk reaction. When I do, it seems to provoke such hostility and trollophobia - it is quite remarkable, When I react I try to be reasonable and answer every comment that comes my way. This tends to make me write too much and I get accused of trolling. But no, I don't think my reactions are kneejerk at all. And I do my best not be a hypocrite and am pleased that Simers calls out hypocrisy when he sees it even in minuscule cases committed by "harmless" athletes. I know you approve of hypocrisy or at least fail to see any harm in it. You've admitted so in this thread.

In Simers I see something that I don't see in any other sportswriter in the world. He says what he thinks and he really doesn't care who he upsets. He's taking on the owners of the city's baseball teams in a very direct way. He's a beat writer who needs the team to speak to him. And people call him cowardly? That's wrong. I like it when writers have a go at bad management, I don't understand why the people get angry with him or refuse to notice it when he points out the management sucks. No other sportswriter in the world takes such shots at a team so close to home. In the same way that I don't like seeing the people get angry with trade unions, civil rights activists, feminists etc who ultimately are lobbying for a fairer deal, I don't want to see the people muzzle a man who is taking on the bad guys. However, people tend to hate these agents of good more than they hate the agents of oppression. But I am probably taking this now into the realms of what would be deemed trolling.

TJ's attitude of not caring whom he upsets could be a problem if he insults people for being ugly, as BBC suggests. But I don't believe he ever does that. I see a guy who is very fair in whom he takes potshots at. The shots are generally gentle and to some extent provoked and always justifiable, IMO.
   69. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: June 13, 2012 at 09:28 AM (#4155424)
I dont remember exactly his Thames encounter. I certainly dont recall the When did you stop beating your wife question. My memory is that Thames refused to speak to him, which I consider to be rude.


Let me refresh your memory: "'Are you that horrible on defense that teams don't think it's worth playing such a home run threat?' I asked by way of introduction. Maybe somebody else wastes time schmoozing with Tims/Tems, but he's a one-year rental who has some explaining to do. How bad are you on defense that teams don't dare risk playing you?

Tims/Tems just smiled.

When I came back on Tims/Tems, he sat silent. I can see one problem he might have on defense if everyone is relying on him to yell 'I got it.'

He said he wasn't going to talk to me because I hadn't introduced myself." - T.J. Simers, March 21, 2011

Well Lassus is aligning himself with the majority who see the word Simers and say what a jerk. You embody this prejudice Bring, and I merely react to your posts to point out their erroneousness.


I would be interested in seeing you try to prove that an aversion to Simers and his work is a function of prejudice, rather than operant conditioning resulting from a negative stimulus. Against what larger group of which Simers is a member, specifically, do you believe that Lassus and I are prejudiced?

In Simers I see something that I don't see in any other sportswriter in the world. He says what he thinks and he really doesn't care who he upsets.


There are lots of sportswriters who do that. Nearly every market has one, because trolling is a profitable schtick. In Pittsburgh, for example, the main one is Mark Madden.

And people call him cowardly? That's wrong.


When he takes shots at someone who can't hit back, that's pretty much the essence of cowardly behavior.

I don't understand why the people get angry with him or refuse to notice it when he points out the management sucks.


Where, specifically, in the piece linked above did he "point out that management sucks"? Can you quote the specific passage? All I see is a member of management refusing to answer questions for Simers, specifically, and nobody can really be blamed for that because Simers is a relatively unapologetic troll. It's like refusing to shake a clown's hand because you can see the joy buzzer in his palm.

TJ's attitude of not caring whom he upsets could be a problem if he insults people for being ugly, as BBC suggests. But I don't believe he ever does that.


"As you know, Fox will be broadcasting the World Series and it likes to put the camera on the face of every single fan sitting in the stands, these [Philadelphia] fans as ugly as any in the country." -T.J. Simers, October 20, 2009
   70. DA Baracus is gritty and hits with RISP Posted: June 13, 2012 at 09:39 AM (#4155434)
Don't feed the trolls!
   71. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: June 13, 2012 at 10:02 AM (#4155450)
T.J. Simers: American Hero or the Greatest American Hero???

You'd better watch your ass Ted Nugent ...

   72. Dan Szymborski Posted: June 13, 2012 at 10:30 AM (#4155477)
Apart from the fact that I find Simers hilarious when he's at his best, what I liked about the Jeff Kent articles, and the way he brought in other guys like Russ Martin etc, was the insight you got into their characters and what went on in the clubhouse. (From my point of view, that kind of insight was the biggest success about Moneyball.) I also like the way he tells the stories in a non-straightforward way, but this seems to offend some people who like more rigid and easy-to-follow sentence structures, which to me is like complaining about Picasso's inability to paint recognizable faces.


[...]

Simers, it seems to me, is relentless in his criticism of McCourt over a bazillion things. Quite a few are mentioned in this article.

As a satirist, his responsibility is to point out hypocrisy, humbug and injustice as it affects his readers, who are the sports fans of LA, and make them laugh as he does it. In my opinion he does exactly this. The article is a great example of that.


[...]


Simers would like his readers to have a good baseball team. He points out the reasons why the owners aren't trying to provide that and the examples of their hypocrisy and ill-use of the money that they have taken from the paying public of LA. Why such hostility? He's on the people's side against the owners who aren't trying, who are keeping money for themselves that should be spent on a baseball team. Every team needs a vociferous watchdog like Simers.


[...]


It's not Simers' job, as an employee of the LA Times, to be an investigative journalist for MLB nor is he going to crunch numbers to please the geeks on here. He's a smartass columnist. You may not like that or want that and there is no argument on this issue. Just don't say he writes what everyone else does, because that patently isn't so and don't accuse his writing of being fluff or bland. I think he fights the good fight so more power to his pen.


[...]



You sure? Look, I think there is scope to criticize Simers. But implying he takes shots only at easy targets is wrong. He aims at Moreno, who's a powerful man with powerful friends. It's not the superficial writing of a 12 year old girl either. Loads of other insults on here about him completely miss the target too. So yes, I think there is a glaring deficit in some people's comprehension skills.


[...]


Simers is more of a diarist than a journalist. He's telling me about his day that he's been lucky enough to spend in the clubhouse. It's his column not an objective piece of reporting.

I enjoy the pictures he paints and have grown to enjoy the comments and insults from you guys afterwards. I'm still waiting for an "I had an email from Vlad" in one of his pieces. Please let it happen one day!


[...]

And it goes on. Philistine really likes talking about and defending T.J. Simers, so much that by counting, I was up to 20% of his total post count in Simers threads before I got bored.
   73. Tom Nawrocki Posted: June 13, 2012 at 11:02 AM (#4155512)
Dan, I thought you were very vigilant about potential trolls using screen names like "philistine." Someone needs to ask him if he's a fan of sport.
   74. Lassus Posted: June 13, 2012 at 11:16 AM (#4155521)
Wait, can we search post history now? Or is that just using the limping google feature?
   75. JJ1986 Posted: June 13, 2012 at 11:16 AM (#4155522)
"Are you that horrible on defense that teams don't think it's worth playing such a home run threat?'' I asked by way of introduction.


Wow.
   76. streak of perros Posted: June 13, 2012 at 12:11 PM (#4155593)
"As you know, Fox will be broadcasting the World Series and it likes to put the camera on the face of every single fan sitting in the stands, these [Philadelphia] fans as ugly as any in the country." -T.J. Simers, October 20, 2009


QFT
   77. streak of perros Posted: June 13, 2012 at 12:17 PM (#4155604)
I respect most of the anti-Simers folks here, I can remember this same discussion with Vlad at least a dozen times, and bbc and srul are awesome.

But regarding Phil -- sfw if he's a troll or sock puppet or whatever ad hom you wanna throw at him? I despise the tactic of turning a discussion into a personal attack upon someone who's playing the devil's lawyer.

Maybe some of us should spend some time with the collected works of Carl Gustav and maybe we'll get a little less aggravated by the phillistines of this world.
   78. Dan Szymborski Posted: June 13, 2012 at 12:18 PM (#4155608)
Dan, I thought you were very vigilant about potential trolls using screen names like "philistine." Someone needs to ask him if he's a fan of sport.

I still do keep an eye out for rlm! If he pops up, he gets permabanned instantly. I suspect he's gotten bored of the whole thing, what with sabermetrics being mainstream now and his rec.sport.baseball enemies infecting front offices and big media.
   79. Dan Szymborski Posted: June 13, 2012 at 12:19 PM (#4155610)
But regarding Phil -- sfw if he's a troll or sock puppet or whatever ad hom you wanna throw at him? I despise the tactic of turning a discussion into a personal attack upon someone who's playing the devil's lawyer.


I was just making an observation. For whatever reason, dude really likes to jump into T.J. Simers discussions more than anything else.
   80. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: June 13, 2012 at 12:22 PM (#4155618)
I still do keep an eye out for rlm!


Cordially, of course.
   81. Nasty Nate Posted: June 13, 2012 at 12:30 PM (#4155631)
I love how philistine at various times describes Simers as a beat writer, a journalist, a satirist, and a columnist. If it weren't for all these conflicting job descriptions, I would think he was actually Simers anonymously defending his own name rather than just some troll.
   82. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: June 13, 2012 at 12:39 PM (#4155648)
a satirist


He misspelled "sadist".
   83. Srul Itza Posted: June 13, 2012 at 02:13 PM (#4155784)
I still do keep an eye out for rlm! If he pops up, he gets permabanned instantly.


Have you no respect for history? If he or the boy king ever showed up here, they should be welcomed with open arms; it would be like seeing a Wooly Mammoth walking down the street.
   84. gef the talking mongoose Posted: June 13, 2012 at 02:19 PM (#4155788)
I love how philistine at various times describes Simers as a beat writer,


Have Simers & Lawrence Ferlinghetti ever been seen in the same room at the same time?
   85. streak of perros Posted: June 13, 2012 at 05:13 PM (#4155981)
The projection thing has always grabbed me. I'm as 'guilty' of it as the next person, but whenever I catch myself judging someone, it's like looking into facing mirrors, the judgement swinging back and forth endlessly.

Empathy is not the most pleasant experience in the world.
   86. Rickey Fredonia Fudge Duckery Precious Twiddle Posted: June 13, 2012 at 05:36 PM (#4156003)
Empathy is not the most pleasant experience in the world.


I could tell you the most pleasant experience in the world, but you'd probably wince.
   87. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: June 13, 2012 at 05:45 PM (#4156015)
In Simers I see something that I don't see in any other sportswriter in the world. He says what he thinks and he really doesn't care who he upsets.

Nah, TJ just has no game, so he uses shock and awe to try to move the needle. It's pretty common in today's media. Turn on conservative talk radio some time.*

* Obviously at your own risk. Those are some crazy #######.
   88. streak of perros Posted: June 13, 2012 at 06:04 PM (#4156025)
I could tell you the most pleasant experience in the world, but you'd probably wince.


I hear tell it's best in the fetal position...
   89. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: June 13, 2012 at 06:24 PM (#4156037)
TJ Simers is the print equivalent of a local Morning Zoo's cut-rate version of Stuttering John. There's a difference between provoking, which any fourth grader who combines rhyme and insult can do, and being provocative. It's amazing that ten years of one gimmick could resonate strongly enough with anyone to create a fan.
   90. philistine Posted: June 14, 2012 at 04:55 AM (#4156426)
And it goes on. Philistine really likes talking about and defending T.J. Simers, so much that by counting, I was up to 20% of his total post count in Simers threads before I got bored.

Have I ever claimed otherwise? The other 80% percent are mostly about the Expos or the corrupt commissioner. Since the Expos went away, I don't have a team to talk about. But to refresh your memory, I strongly objected to your championing the London Rapists name, Dan.

Nah, TJ just has no game, so he uses shock and awe to try to move the needle. It's pretty common in today's media. Turn on conservative talk radio some time.*

But he's the opposite of that. Why can't you see?

"'Are you that horrible on defense that teams don't think it's worth playing such a home run threat?' I asked by way of introduction.

Why is that an unfair question? It's not polite - is that your beef? He's not polite, but it's a fair question. The guy's home run ratio is one of the highest in history, as TJ pointed out before Bring's quote, yet he can't get a game. So, why not ask him what the problem is. He does it in a provocative way in a hope to get a similar response to the one Pujols gave him.
   91. philistine Posted: June 14, 2012 at 05:12 AM (#4156428)
TJ Simers is the print equivalent of a local Morning Zoo's cut-rate version of Stuttering John. There's a difference between provoking, which any fourth grader who combines rhyme and insult can do, and being provocative. It's amazing that ten years of one gimmick could resonate strongly enough with anyone to create a fan.

Simers has survived despite providing the harshest criticism by any journalist, possibly globally, of the management of the local team. How has he done this? By adopting the schtick that he has. If he had done it without the guise of a clown, do you think he would have lasted so long?

When Backlasher talked about groupthink, he was referring to the Pavlovian reaction to Billy Beane or Moneyball. Well, the same thing happens with TJ - only in reverse. More and more assertions come in, like Gonfalon's, which don't get what is going on here. Anyone who challenges this groupthink is called a troll.If you can't engage in debates and be prepared to hear new readings and interpretations with polite people over matters relating to baseball, Dan should change the name from Baseball Think Factory right away.
   92. philistine Posted: June 14, 2012 at 05:25 AM (#4156431)
I love how philistine at various times describes Simers as a beat writer, a journalist, a satirist, and a columnist. If it weren't for all these conflicting job descriptions, I would think he was actually Simers anonymously defending his own name rather than just some troll.

Great arguments against me again guys. Why do they conflict? Doesn't every newspaper columnist count as a journalist? His column is the local team, hence beat writer (I didn't mean a Beat Generation writer if that's what you thought). Can a beat writer not use satire if he thinks there is corruption in the team? He's representing the readers, their money is being wasted or stolen by corrupt owners. He tells readers this and shows them how it is done in a humorous way. They get Thames tell the people he's got the best HR record then don't know how to pronounce his name and can't get him on the team. And you guys say, Well that Mr Simers is a bit rude talking to Mr Tims like that. It's not his fault his defense is crap or that he can't hit righties. He could at least ask him nice questions. After all his mother was ill once.

So what if I were Simers? If I'm correct, and nobody's really trying to prove me wrong, I'd have a right to defend myself. All you guys are doing is trying to discredit me as a legitimate contributor. Welcome to the baseball groupthink factory.
   93. philistine Posted: June 14, 2012 at 06:34 AM (#4156438)
Let me refresh your memory: "'Are you that horrible on defense that teams don't think it's worth playing such a home run threat?' I asked by way of introduction.

The shock of this is funny and / or offensive in varying degrees according to your POV. In the light of what the team has said about him, the question is, IMO,justifiable. Why doesn't he play more?

Maybe somebody else wastes time schmoozing with Tims/Tems, but he's a one-year rental who has some explaining to do. How bad are you on defense that teams don't dare risk playing you?

This is blunt but true. He's a one-year rental, and the explaining he has to do is again, IMO, justifiable. Simers is putting on his clown outfit here - I dont schmooze I just go straight in and offend people. I understand the reaction towards sympathy for the athlete, but it is not one I share. The athlete relies on his own performance for his living and is answerable to his team and fans so the question is one he will have asked himself a million times if he is professional in his attitude. It is a common tactic of Simers, to read the positive spin and go on to find the implicit negative underside. So he reads the blurb abot Thames's HR ratio and then asks why he doesn't play more. He hears the new owner saying the Dodgers is the best team in the world and asks him if he'd have said that if he'd bought his first choice team. It's a fair, funny and clever way of undermining the bull #### and hypocrisy of empty press releases. The same with Magic Johnson here. In a way Thames gets the brunt that should be aimed at the team, but I still think it's fair game as Thames is the one getting the benefit of that press release.

It's sad that Thames has no answer, so many here feel sorry for the underdog- I guess there's a race/education element to this which inspires a certain reaction too. But actually, he is a pro athlete who should be ready and trained for interviews. If he said: "I actually find that offensive," it would be one thing. But his reaction is silence, which doesn't help him.

Tims/Tems just smiled.

When I came back on Tims/Tems, he sat silent. I can see one problem he might have on defense if everyone is relying on him to yell 'I got it.'


A decent gag and I think fair comment. I think a silent reaction is rude enough to justify a joke at his expense.

He said he wasn't going to talk to me because I hadn't introduced myself.

This just comes across as petty. So Thames wasn't offended by the questions, he just thinks Simers should have introduced himself. I think it makes Thames appear childish and dishonest. If Simers' first question had been less hostile, would he really have remained silent?
   94. Lassus Posted: June 14, 2012 at 07:02 AM (#4156443)
The shock of this is funny and / or offensive in varying degrees according to your POV.

You're a better writer than Simers here in your use of "offensive" as deflection. "Oh, it might be offensive, you're just too sensitive." It - and Simers - is not offensive; it - and Simers in general, frequently - is simply rude and assholish (and whiny, and petty, and shrill), which is the main argument I have made against him. You and Simers can continue to think it's awesome to treat people this way, go forth and fight the good fight for... being rude, I guess, you're certainly not alone.
   95. philistine Posted: June 14, 2012 at 07:12 AM (#4156448)
How would you have asked the question?
   96. Lassus Posted: June 14, 2012 at 07:15 AM (#4156449)
How would you have asked the question?

As long as you're freely ignoring the point I made, I'll answer:

Wrong question - why would you ask the player and not the GM or manager? What purpose do you have in asking the player how bad he is?
   97. philistine Posted: June 14, 2012 at 07:26 AM (#4156451)
I'm not ignoring the point you made at all.

From your second point, you think it is not only rude but you also think a (sports) beat writer has no purpose asking a player about his game and ability. It seems pretty pointless discussing the matter with you as your opinion and mine on the role of a (sports) beat writer are poles apart, What do you ask an athlete about - what's on his iPod at the moment?
   98. philistine Posted: June 14, 2012 at 07:38 AM (#4156457)
During the course of the interview, if I remember correctly, it seemed to be the case that nobody had ever said that to Thames before, Imagine that, a guy with his HR ratio was never told that his defense was keeping him off the team. You wonder how many people thought It would have been rude to say that, and probably not my place.

Edit: I think it was a follow-up piece and second interview in which Thames apologized to Simers for his behavior. He was so shocked by the question, that he didn't know what to say.
   99. Lassus Posted: June 14, 2012 at 07:45 AM (#4156462)
From your second point, you think it is not only rude but you also think a (sports) beat writer has no purpose asking a player about his game and ability.

In the manner Simers did? Yes.

Note also - "by way of introduction" in the manner of asking. He didn't bother with a lead-in because he was being so hilariously socratic that Thames - and those like me - just didn't get it. So in answer to your first question, he didn't eventually get to "Is it an issue or difficult for you when some of your defensive troubles keep you out of the lineup, despite your power?" Giving you or Simers more credit than you deserve for asking Thames at all, considering all his lineup decisions, it apparently wasn't funny enough or insightful enough to treat Thames like a decent human being.

So again, as I said, knock yourself out. Treat whomever you like that way for the purpose of entertainment. Just don't cry when people think you're a tool.

   100. philistine Posted: June 14, 2012 at 07:55 AM (#4156464)
It seems pretty pointless discussing the matter with you as your opinion and mine on the role of a (sports) beat writer are poles apart

I apologize for saying this.

But my point is that the majority here are offended by things that are true. We shouldn't say the truth, it is offensive. Well no, it's the truth, your taking offense is wrong-headed. You prefer Magic Johnson's kind words to be treasured even if they are meaningless. I prefer honesty.

Is Simers rude? He can be, but it's true what he says. Does he upset people deliberately? I don't think so. Thames could have handled the question the way Pujols handled the "What year were you born?" question and the angry sulky scene would have been a funny banter-ish conversation in which the athlete is allowed to score points freely at the writer's expense. Instead we got an attempt from Simers to make an article out of the silent treatment from a sulky athlete.
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