It’s stupid, always has been, and a few inches higher Friday night and Ethier might still be wondering where he is today.

Just for the record, Reynolds got hit first, and the ball hit him pretty close to the head. The #### Dodgers started the #### b.s. with that ridiculous slide into 2b, which was aimed at hurting the defender. Then Drew byatch slapped Kemp when the throw from Montero beat Kemp on the SB attempt. Regardless of today's score (in which Petit got hammered like the pinata he is, and always has been), there's no hiding the fact that the Dodgers have been playing pretty crappy baseball lately - and lo and behold, the Rockies are right on their heels.

I agree with Simers. Intentionally throwing at a player is childish and reckless. There's really no justification for it under any circumstances.

Well, I agree as well. Except that Simers should've wondered what could've happened to Mark Reynolds first.
And of course, Joe Torre's explanation after the game was that his 'roid monkey Belisario was just "wild".

#1-- is the fact that the Dodgers have been playing badly of late news to anyone here? is it relevant to this thread? do you have any purpose on bbtf other than to pimp your shitty ballclub?

do you have any purpose on bbtf other than to pimp your shitty ballclub?

He also has the purpose of throwing racially charged barbs at the Mets.

[4] Let's see. Thread is about the Dodgers. Thread is about Dodgers and another team getting into a stupid bean ball war a couple of nights ago. So it's really outlandish to point out that the Dodgers should probably focus on winning more games than hitting opposing players - because they've really sucked at it lately? Maybe you don't like it - but I don't really care about what you like. And as far as pimping a club around here, the ratio of irrelevant articles about the Dodgers to the irrelevant articles about the Dbacks is about 24 to 1. Talk about REALLY pimping a shitty ball club on bbtf.

[5] Right. It's "let's throw shitty insults at bbtf posters on Sunday night". Way to take the high road there.

I recommend reading the entire article. Serious T.J. Simers is a pretty good read.

wow, "shitty" is OK now! I was going to call them a "horseshit" ballclub.....

levski. sincere big picture question: do you think it's worthwhile adjudicating good guys and bad guys in individual beanball episodes? isn't this basically a systemic problem for baseball?

imo, if you kept hitters in the batter's box (automatic out for so much as touching the chalk), called the regulation strike zone width, and ejected any pitcher who hit a batter automatically, you'd eliminate the problem.

shitty has always been okay. Shit is not. I think the nanny has a drinking problem.

"ejected any pitcher who hit a batter automatically"

That would make guys like Craig Biggio MVP-worthy. Crowd the plate, move into the inside pitch and bam, into the bullpen early.

All of this trash talk about National League teams! Is the National League sending a representative to the post season this year?

As for beanballs, it seems to me that if any player thought for a half-second about whether or not the player they are targeting for a plunking has a wife and kids, a mom and dad, friends and loved ones, and hopefully has years of playing and decades of living to follow the next game, why would anyone even consider hitting somebody with a baseball on purpose, especially above the waist? How is that right?


Youkilis the other day (when hit against Detroit) may have overreacted, but I can't say I wouldn't do the same thing. He's been hit high several times over the last few years. I know he dives over the plate, and I know many people think he is an over-intense, ugly guy, but so what? I mean, for taking a chance that his career or life could be over, what would he have to be guilty of?

The whole "code of retaliation" in baseball is probably my least-favorite part of the sport. If you have to do this crap to show everybody how big your d**k is, I think you're really showing how little of a man you are.

10--reading comprehension fail, dewitty: enforcing the batter's box keeps Mr. Biggio in his proper place....

10--reading comprehension fail, dewitty: enforcing the batter's box keeps Mr. Biggio in his proper place....

Yes, because bending at the waist or sticking one's elbow out is just not possible for major league hitters.

ok, if a player tries to be hit, toss him too--seriously, do you guys really not think that erasing the inside of the batter's box, enlarging the outside corner by 4 inches, and the hpb are unconnected? the game of "controlling the inside corner" exists because the rulebook way of controlling the inside corner was abandoned....

imo, if you kept hitters in the batter's box (automatic out for so much as touching the chalk), called the regulation strike zone width, and ejected any pitcher who hit a batter automatically, you'd eliminate the problem.

You really advocate ejecting any pitcher who hits a batter in your new world order? That's got to be the worst solution to this issue that I've read.

Flame away, but I'm of the opinion that beanballs are part of a game -- you never throw at a guys head -- but if you opponent has been pitching inside a bit too much there has to be the threat of retaliation.

There are other situations in sports where a athlete is similarly exposed (NFL and NHL for example) and there are self policed rules about what is and isn't OK. I think most involved with the game on a professional level would acknowledge this and are OK with it, in fact finding it an essential part of the game.

ejections, not necessarily. but I think beanball wars are like fighting in hockey: fake insider "this is how men play the game" bs stands in the way of entirely plausible change. enforce the width of the strike zone; keep guys in the batter's box. if a legitimate pitch cannot plausibly hit a batter in a legitimate stance, you'll clear up the problem. it's the huge no man's land that currently exists that causes hit batters.....

This thread has gotten chippier than the D'Backs v. Dodgers series before Kuroda got hit.

10--reading comprehension fail, dewitty: enforcing the batter's box keeps Mr. Biggio in his proper place....

Yes, because bending at the waist or sticking one's elbow out is just not possible for major league hitters.

A short note from a soccer/football/futbol fan. Policing "dives" in the penalty area is probably the single biggest officiating headache in the game. Baseball judgement calls on diving into pitches v. (un)intentionally hit batters resulting in pitcher ejection would be very, very problematic in a way similar to policing soccer diving.

I'll just stand on my #17. The hbp is subjective right now (did he throw at him? did he try to get out of the way?) I don't really care about ejections. Enforce the batter's box and the book strike zone, and most of this grey area goes away....

i think the umpires need to stay out of it and let the players police themselves. that way things will either get better or at the very worst stay the same. if there is a melee on the field the umpires can eject whoever and let the league office sort out the suspensions. the warnings do nothing except give an incentive to hit first.

Speaking of beanball wars and Joe Torre, remember this game?:
http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/1984/B08120ATL1984.htm

I remember this loony game, and I'm trying to piece together the scenario. Braves in 2nd place, 9 behind San Diego.
Pascual Perez hit Alan Wiggins to open the game. When Perez batted in the 2nd, the play by play shows a wild pitch from Whitson, the a K of Perez. I think the wild pitch was a ball behind Perez's head. In the 4th, Perez is walked, but Whitson is tossed for throwing at Perez. In the 8th, Perez is still in the game, and is hit by Craig Lefferts (who is then tossed); I remember an at bat that game of Perez where as the pitcher is winding up, Perez is already literally backing out of the box, knowing he'll be hit.

Then in the top of the 9th, the late Donnie Moore plunks the first batter Graig Nettles, and both Moore and Joe Torre are tossed. On Retrosheet, it also says "(Gerald) Perry, Mahler & Bedrosian ejected sometime for fighting as a result of a beanball war; (Champ) Summers & (Dick) Williams also tossed". There might have been other pitches high and tight from Perez during the game that aren't listed in the game log.

Anyway, it was the most lunatic beanball game I've ever seen. (Not implying Torre was at fault-- I just was reminded of it).

shitty has always been okay. #### is not. I think the nanny has a drinking problem.

The only two words I can think of that are banned across all permutations are the f-word, and the long d-word that would describe someone who takes Vietnamese money and herds it across the plains (or plays football with the currency and Brett Favre.)

"In retaliation, the Mets’ pitcher throws a pitch behind a Giants hitter, his teammates later probably critical of him privately for not drilling the guy. "


In anticipation of said disappointment, Santana promptly drilled Molina.

Flame away, but I'm of the opinion that beanballs are part of a game -- you never throw at a guys head

A beanball is a ball that hits a batter in the head.

All of this trash talk about National League teams! Is the National League sending a representative to the post season this year?

After last season, are is the AL?

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every couple of postseasons. Seriously, even the friggin' Red Sox, whose fans are jumping off of bridges right now, are two in the loss column from having the best record in the NL - and that's despite the fact they get to play AL teams most of the time! If the Blue Jays were in the NL, they'd be near the top of the wild card race.

I used to think the Dodgers were the only NL team that could compete ver the long haul with the AL. But I think they'd be in 3rd place in the AL West. Whatever.

That's great Steve. I can't wait for the Red Sox to start Brad Penny in a playoff game.

That's great Steve. I can't wait for the Red Sox to start Brad Penny in a playoff game.

What makes you think the Red Sox will make the playoffs?

Who knows. Their rotation is pretty bad right now. Is Jason Bay out of his slump yet?

Is Jason Bay out of his slump yet?

He seems to be. Six homers in his last 10 games.

But with Wakefield still not ready to come off the DL, the rotation remains iffy.

They did pull into a tie in the WC tonight.

I'm not suggesting the Red Sox are the best team in baseball or anything (shoot...or that they even have a reliable 3rd starter). But that's sort of my point - with a complete clusterf**k of a rotation at the moment, they'd still be as good as anybody in the NL right now. So, if they were in the NL, yeah, maybe Penny (or Wakefield, or Buchholz) would be the Game 3 starter.

In the NL, the wildcard will likely be Colorado (Aaron Cook would be their Game 3 starter), Florida (Ricky Nolasco), or SF (Barry Zito). Either a team's "Game 3 Starter on August 19th" is a poor metric of success on October 10th, or the NL sucks. Or, I would suggest, both.

In the NL, the wildcard will likely be Colorado (Aaron Cook would be their Game 3 starter), Florida (Ricky Nolasco), or SF (Barry Zito). Either a team's "Game 3 Starter on August 19th" is a poor metric of success on October 10th, or the NL sucks. Or, I would suggest, both.

I'd throw in, "or you're underrating Aaron Cook."

Fair enough - I'd certainly rather have Aaron Cook than Brad Penny.

At this point, I'd rather have Penny Marshall than Brad Penny...