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Tuesday, October 08, 2019

TNT preempting Star Wars marathon for playoff baseball led to hilarious complaints and “spoilers”

Sports events sometimes run longer than scheduled or wind up on alternate channels, and that can lead to some funny complaints from viewers expecting to see something else. We’ve seen this before with things like college basketball running into golf or college football games being sent to Fox Business Network, but a particularly humorous one happened Monday with TNT. Turner’s plan was to show both National League Division Series games back to back on TBS, with Braves-Cardinals starting at 3 p.m. ET and Dodgers-Nationals beginning at 6:40 p.m. ET. However, Braves-Cardinals ran long, with the Cardinals eventually winning 5-4 in the 10th inning at around 7:15 p.m. Eastern.

You’d think that wouldn’t be a huge problem, as Turner has another high-distribution channel in TNT, and they were able to start Dodgers-Nationals there (including the pre-game show). But that led to a lot of complaints from those who were expecting to watch other programming on TNT at that point; a marathon of the original Star Wars trilogy, including 1977’s A New Hope (on the West Coast feed) and 1983’s Return of the Jedi (on the East Coast Feed). Here are some of those complaints

Bad enough that baseball has been supplanted by football- but being supplanted by a movie series that in forty-plus years has produced maybe one-and-a-half films’ worth of good material?

 

QLE Posted: October 08, 2019 at 12:42 AM | 184 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: broadcasting, preemptions, star wars, tnt

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   1. My name is RMc and I feel extremely affected Posted: October 08, 2019 at 07:01 AM (#5887810)
a movie series that in forty-plus years has produced maybe one-and-a-half films’ worth of good material?

Stop trolling. You remind me of the critic who saw the original Star Wars and claimed he left the theatre "very depressed". (Hey, there's meds for that, pal.)
   2. Bug Selig Posted: October 08, 2019 at 07:06 AM (#5887811)
Bad enough that baseball has been supplanted by football- but being supplanted by a movie series that in forty-plus years has produced maybe one-and-a-half films’ worth of good material?
Might have something to do with high-and-mighty fans of America's 20th-century pastime saying #### like this.
   3. . Posted: October 08, 2019 at 07:22 AM (#5887815)
I tried to watch a little bit of Dodgers-Nats last night, lasted about five minutes, then back to preseason NBA. Pure dreck.

Game times for the four playoff games last night: 4:02 (*), 4:06, 3:37, 3:24. Just an overanalyzed, overofficious, poorly played, fussy and tedious mess on every level. With leadership too incompetent or too clueless to do a thing about it.

(*) Yankees-Twins, a garden variety, plain vanilla, nine-inning 5-1 game. An entirely ordinary five walks, 18 hits combined. Over four hours to play.
   4. Rusty Priske Posted: October 08, 2019 at 09:16 AM (#5887829)
The complaints are right.

I don't care what the movie is - you don't turn off the last 15 minutes of a movie for a pregame show. Period.
   5. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 08, 2019 at 09:20 AM (#5887832)
Game times for the four playoff games last night: 4:02 (*), 4:06, 3:37, 3:24. Just an overanalyzed, overofficious, poorly played, fussy and tedious mess on every level. With leadership too incompetent or too clueless to do a thing about it.


That's about right. At 11 PM last night the Yankee game had just finished the 5th Inning. It's absurd.
   6. gef, talking mongoose & vexatious litigant Posted: October 08, 2019 at 09:38 AM (#5887838)
I learned some 20ish years ago during the run-up to Phantom Menace that Star Wars=religion for a certain pathetic but sizable population. Best not mess with religion.
   7. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: October 08, 2019 at 09:40 AM (#5887839)
The Curse of Heidi
   8. My name is RMc and I feel extremely affected Posted: October 08, 2019 at 10:22 AM (#5887854)
Game times for the four playoff games last night: 4:02 (*), 4:06, 3:37, 3:24.

Yeah, I know, you're expecting me to do the whole minutes-per-event (MPE) thing, like I always do. But I just can't. Too depressing.

Oh, all right, I'll do the Yankees game...it can't get any more depressing than the Yanks in the ALCS for the skadillionth time. 70 AB, 5 BB, 8 pitching changes, 17 side changes = 100 events even, in 242 minutes, or 2.42 MPE. Not all that horrible for a 21st-century playoff game, especially one that involves the Yankees (who gave up exactly one run, yet had five pitching changes). Still, not good. At all.

At 11 PM last night the Yankee game had just finished the 5th Inning. It's absurd.

I can't even be bothered to watch baseball (or anything, really) after 10pm, so you're doing better than me.
   9. Rally Posted: October 08, 2019 at 10:28 AM (#5887858)
I learned some 20ish years ago during the run-up to Phantom Menace that Star Wars=religion for a certain pathetic but sizable population. Best not mess with religion.


Too bad George Lucas didn’t learn that. Stupid midichlorian bullshit.
   10. Davo Posted: October 08, 2019 at 10:41 AM (#5887866)
At this point, I think I would rather watch Star Wars than an entire MLB game, which is really saying something.
   11. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 08, 2019 at 10:47 AM (#5887871)
Not to hijack the thread, but that's actually kind of an interesting question - if, say, a 4.5-hour Yankees playoff game that ends 5-2 and has 11 pitching changes between the two teams were a Star Wars movie, where would you rank it in the hierarchy? Me, for example, I think I'd rather watch any of the original trilogy than the 4.5-hour Yankees game, but I'd take the Yankees game over any of the prequels. I *think* I would also take either of the new ones over the Yankees game.
   12. puck Posted: October 08, 2019 at 10:50 AM (#5887874)
So there are people with enough money for cable/satellite, but who still watch 40 year old movies with commercials?

Is there a name for the effect where you will be flipping channels and watch a movie on such a basic cable station, with ad breaks, even though you have access to the uninterrupted movie via on demand/streaming options, or maybe even the DVD/bluray?

There's a good joke in there somewhere.
   13. JL72 Posted: October 08, 2019 at 11:04 AM (#5887877)
Is there a name for the effect where you will be flipping channels and watch a movie on such a basic cable station, with ad breaks, even though you have access to the uninterrupted movie via on demand/streaming options, or maybe even the DVD/bluray?


I suspect some of it is the joy of finding what you did not know you wanted to watch. Being hungry but not quite know what you want to eat, until you stumble upon it.

Also, I often watch movies like this when I am dealing with the chaos of my family in the evening. I am half paying attention to the movie, while helping iwht homework, switching back to the game, paying bills and doing dishes. Grabbing the DVD or pulling it up on Netflix is just not worth the effort.
   14. Belfry Bob Posted: October 08, 2019 at 11:07 AM (#5887879)
That's about right. At 11 PM last night the Yankee game had just finished the 5th Inning. It's absurd.


I still love baseball, but I will only watch games I started DVR'ing at least an hour earlier, usually 2, and fast forward through all chatter, commercials, step outs after foul balls, and pitching changes. Usually watch the game in less than 2 hours.
   15. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 08, 2019 at 11:11 AM (#5887883)
I still love baseball, but I will only watch games I started DVR'ing at least an hour earlier, usually 2, and fast forward through all chatter, commercials, step outs after foul balls, and pitching changes. Usually watch the game in less than 2 hours.

Sure, that would work if the game started at 6PM. But if it isn't going to be over until 1 AM, that approach isn't going to help me.
   16. Davo Posted: October 08, 2019 at 11:15 AM (#5887886)
1. The Last Jedi
2. The Revenge of the Sith
3. The Attack of the Clones
4. The Phantom Menace
5. a 4.5-hour Yankees playoff game that ends 5-2 and has 11 pitching changes
6. Star Wars: A New Hope
7. The Empire Strikes Back
8. The Return of the Jedi
9. The Force Awakens
10. Rogue One
11. Solo
   17. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 08, 2019 at 11:21 AM (#5887888)
1. The Last Jedi
2. The Revenge of the Sith
3. The Attack of the Clones
4. The Phantom Menace
5. a 4.5-hour Yankees playoff game that ends 5-2 and has 11 pitching changes
6. Star Wars: A New Hope
7. The Empire Strikes Back
8. The Return of the Jedi
9. The Force Awakens
10. Rogue One
11. Solo


Wait, you like the prequels better than the originals? I also thought Rogue One was the best movie since the first 3.
   18. SoSH U at work Posted: October 08, 2019 at 11:29 AM (#5887890)
I've only seen two. I saw the first one, since renamed Star Wars Pi: Register of the Trademark. And one of the next two, but I'll be damned if I know which one.

   19. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 08, 2019 at 11:34 AM (#5887894)
I've only seen two. I saw the first one, since renamed Star Wars Pi: Register of the Trademark. And one of the next two, but I'll be damned if I know which one.

If you've seen Stars Wars and Empire Strikes back, you're good.

I'm just pissed I can no longer watch the original versions b/c of Lucas' CGI bullshit. Han shot first you bastard!
   20. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 08, 2019 at 11:55 AM (#5887902)
So there are people with enough money for cable/satellite, but who still watch 40 year old movies with commercials?

I've never been able to figure out why anyone would watch any movie on any commercial channel.
   21. bigglou115 is not an Illuminati agent Posted: October 08, 2019 at 12:00 PM (#5887904)
@19, I had old VHS copies I transferred to DVD and eventually digitized. It's really am abject lesson in "edits are made for a reason." You need less than none of the stuff they cut out of the originals.
   22. eric Posted: October 08, 2019 at 12:00 PM (#5887905)
1) Empire Strikes Back
2) A New Hope
3) 4.5 hour Yankees playoff game
4) Rogue One
5) Return of the Jedi
.
.
.
.
googolplex) tortured to death over many weeks
googolplex+1) any of the other Star Wars movies
   23. JAHV Posted: October 08, 2019 at 12:17 PM (#5887914)
Bad enough that baseball has been supplanted by football- but being supplanted by a movie series that in forty-plus years has produced maybe one-and-a-half films’ worth of good material?


Baseball has been supplanted by a sport that has maybe one and a half innings worth of interesting plays. I'd rather watch Star Wars.

Not to hijack the thread, but that's actually kind of an interesting question - if, say, a 4.5-hour Yankees playoff game that ends 5-2 and has 11 pitching changes between the two teams were a Star Wars movie, where would you rank it in the hierarchy? Me, for example, I think I'd rather watch any of the original trilogy than the 4.5-hour Yankees game, but I'd take the Yankees game over any of the prequels. I *think* I would also take either of the new ones over the Yankees game.


1. A New Hope
2. Empire Strikes Back
3. Rogue One
4. Return of the Jedi
5. Two to four hours worth of any of the cartoons (Clone Wars, Rebels, Resistance)
5. The Force Awakens
6. Solo
7. The Last Jedi
8. Interminable Yankee game
9. The Revenge of the Sith
10. The Phantom Menace
11. The Red Sox or A's winning the World Series
12. Attack of the Clones

Also, my father-in-law was able to find a relatively clean copy of the original movies online and download them to a watchable disc for us, so we can enjoy the original Star Wars as God intended before Lucas threw a bunch of extra dinosaurs and bad CGI Jabba in there.
   24. Davo Posted: October 08, 2019 at 12:32 PM (#5887918)
17- Yeah. Prequels are doing a lot of novel stuff on the cgi front which keep them interesting. (In Episode 2, for instance, when Anakin flies off to attempt to rescue his mom, there are three shots of him in his pod-racer: the first in a fully CGI background, the second in front of a matte painting, and the third in a “real” shooting location.) And I prefer the overarching, very adult political theme in the Prequels, to the Originals’ rote Hero’s Journey thing. And Ewan’s acting in II and III are my favorite performances; once he figured out what kinda movies they were and hams it up to 11, he just has a ball with the whole thing, love it so much.
   25. PreservedFish Posted: October 08, 2019 at 12:33 PM (#5887920)
I've "watched" a lot of baseball this October, which means that I've had my laptop open and the game minimized, with the sound on, for much of the time. Those long pauses are painless when you're actually mostly doing something else, and when you don't care about the outcome, the game length isn't so bad either.

However if I were forced to sit and do nothing but watch the screen, then the 4.5 hour Yankee game would be down low on the list, possibly even below the bad prequels, which are at least over sooner.
   26. Davo Posted: October 08, 2019 at 12:48 PM (#5887927)
I’ve watched about fifteen minutes of postseason baseball so far: the ending of the NL Wild Card game.

9th inning of a close elimination game is about all I can stomach these days.
   27. The Rare Albino Shrieking Goat of Guatemala. Posted: October 08, 2019 at 12:51 PM (#5887929)
#17 Forget it Snapper, it's Davo, he's BBTF's own Armond White.

(though if you'd really like a giggle, ask him about Speed Racer)
   28. Rusty Priske Posted: October 08, 2019 at 01:47 PM (#5887955)
There is no such movie as 'A New Hope'. It is called Star Wars, damn it.
   29. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: October 08, 2019 at 01:50 PM (#5887957)
There's a big difference between a 4.5 hour LDS game versus a 4.5 hour WS game. Maybe if I had grown up with the current format it'd be different, but there's much less at stake for the LDSs so I don't have the same patience. Any WS game > any Star Wars. After that, it gets down to which episode versus the stakes of the series.
   30. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 08, 2019 at 01:58 PM (#5887961)
#23 has the ST movies in the correct order. Well I would flip Force Awakens and Last Jedi, but that is very minor.
   31. salvomania Posted: October 08, 2019 at 02:03 PM (#5887966)
FWIW, the Braves-Cardinals series has been pretty entertaining so far, with a lot of tension and drama.

I may be rare around here, but I wouldn't miss it---wouldn't even notice it---if I never saw another Star Wars movie again. My wife, though, is a huge Star Wars fan (wanted to name our son "Luke," to which I objected, although it is his middle name; I told her I wouldn't name our child after a muppet or a Star Wars character), goes and sees the new ones in the theater, etc.
   32. bobm Posted: October 08, 2019 at 02:04 PM (#5887967)
IMO one is better off watching 10 films that influenced Star Wars

[...]

2. The Hidden Fortress (1958)

The next place Lucas looked for inspiration was to this period epic by Akira Kurosawa, which buttresses the whole plot. It relates the story of a general and a princess behind enemy lines in feudal Japan, fighting their way to safely with the help of two bumbling peasants. The blueprint these two provided for C-3PO and R2-D2, and their function as comic relief, sticks out more than anything, but there’s also a villainous general, Hyoe Tadokoro, with proto-Darth facial scars.

This wasn’t the only Kurosawa film that fed into Lucas’s imagination. The brawl in the Cantina is straight from Yojimbo (1961), and the hiding-under-the-floor trick is a lift from its sequel, Sanjuro (1962). Striking amounts of plot and imagery in The Empire Strikes Back come from Derzu Uzala (1975), with its wanderings through the Siberian wilderness.

[...]

9. The Dam Busters (1955)

War pictures from Wings (1927) onwards assisted Lucas’s vision – he actually interspliced dogfight sequences from that film as placeholders while assembling his rough cut. Others include The Guns of Navarone (1961), for the climactic attack on the Death Star, along with the fighter-bomber action film 633 Squadron (1964). But the most significant of these is The Dam Busters, thanks to the very specific bombing strategy Luke and his fellow X-wing pilots must deploy, each taking turns to try and deliver their killer payload. There are snippets of dialogue Lucas reused verbatim – “Get set for your attack run!”; “Look at the size of that thing!”. Listen very, very closely and you can even hear Obi-Wan say “You’ll bring the Ruhr steel industry to a standstill!” (Not really.)

[...]
   33. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 08, 2019 at 02:05 PM (#5887968)
#23 has the ST movies in the correct order.
Sez the musical relativist from the pop culture thread!
   34. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 08, 2019 at 02:08 PM (#5887969)
There are snippets of dialogue Lucas reused verbatim – “Get set for your attack run!”; “Look at the size of that thing!”.
Although he may have gotten that second line from a different film.
   35. JAHV Posted: October 08, 2019 at 02:18 PM (#5887975)
There is no such movie as 'A New Hope'. It is called Star Wars, damn it.


We know, but it's just easier to say it that way to make sure there's no confusion. Just like the plural of "Lego" is "Lego" or "Lego bricks/pieces" but everyone says "Legos" anyway because it sounds better.
   36. JAHV Posted: October 08, 2019 at 02:21 PM (#5887977)
#23 has the ST movies in the correct order. Well I would flip Force Awakens and Last Jedi, but that is very minor.


That might be the highest compliment I've ever received! Thank you!

Honestly, I could probably swap those two myself. I've only seen those ones a couple times each and haven't fully formulated my opinions on them. The one thing I get a lot of weird pushback on from Star Wars fans is that I loved Rogue One. There are a decent number of Star Wars nerds out there who thought it was a mediocre or even bad movie. I loved it.
   37. Davo Posted: October 08, 2019 at 04:26 PM (#5888032)
So there are people with enough money for cable/satellite, but who still watch 40 year old movies with commercials?

The commercials thing mystifies me. Can’t understand how people do that!

Last night I wanted to watch Ninja, but it was only available on a service that had commercial breaks. So instead I just watched Ninja 2: Shadow of a Tear...because that one was available commercial-free!

(Do not worry, I was still able to pick up the plot.)
   38. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: October 08, 2019 at 04:56 PM (#5888054)
I cosign that #23 is a great ranking. Rogue One was a very good movie.

Rotten Tomatoes rates each vehicle:

Rebels 100
Empire 95
Clone Wars series 94
A New Hope 93
Force Awakens 93
Resistance 92
Last Jedi 91
Rogue One 84
Return of the Jedi 81
Revenge of the Sith 80
Solo 70
Attack of the Clones 66
Phantom Menace 53
Clone Wars movie 18
   39. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: October 08, 2019 at 05:05 PM (#5888058)
The Star Wars Rebels episode Twilight of the Apprentice is the 27th highest rated television episode of all time on imdb.com:

https://www.imdb.com/search/title/?title_type=tv_episode&num_votes=1000,&sort=user_rating,desc
   40. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 08, 2019 at 05:31 PM (#5888066)
The Star Wars Rebels episode Twilight of the Apprentice is the 27th highest rated television episode of all time on imdb.com:
Yeah, that kind of stuff happened before they refined the calibration on the Russian TrumpBots.
   41. JAHV Posted: October 08, 2019 at 05:38 PM (#5888067)
The Star Wars Rebels episode Twilight of the Apprentice is the 27th highest rated television episode of all time on imdb.com:


Star Wars Rebels was such a fantastic show. We had a great time watching that with the family. I'm really interested to see how the new Clone Wars cartoons will be and if The Mandalorian will be worth the hype.
   42. Cowboy Popup Posted: October 08, 2019 at 05:57 PM (#5888070)
The Star Wars Rebels episode Twilight of the Apprentice is the 27th highest rated television episode of all time on imdb.com:


That episode was ####### great. I've watched it half a dozen times at least. Goosebumps at the end every single time. The Obiwan is episode is pretty glorious too.

Also love the rankings in 23! That's pretty close to where I would rank em.
   43. My name is RMc and I feel extremely affected Posted: October 08, 2019 at 06:09 PM (#5888076)
There is no such movie as 'A New Hope'. It is called Star Wars, damn it.

Give that man a Primey.

1. Star Wars
2. Empire Strikes Back
3. Return of the Jedi
4. Force Awakens
5. Rogue One
6. Revenge of the Sith
7. Last Jedi
8. Solo
9. Phantom Menace
10. Attack of the Clones
   44. donlock Posted: October 08, 2019 at 07:33 PM (#5888094)
Women watch and like the Star Wars Movies? Who knew?


Take away Leia and women only spend one minute speaking in Star Wars Trilogy.

(From the same Guardian articles cited above)

   45. Howie Menckel Posted: October 08, 2019 at 07:59 PM (#5888100)
Take away Leia and women only spend one minute speaking in Star Wars Trilogy.

if that doesn't explain its popularity.....
:)
   46. flournoy Posted: October 08, 2019 at 09:14 PM (#5888136)
Take away Leia and women only spend one minute speaking in Star Wars Trilogy.


Next special addition will add a Sy Snootles song to the Mos Eisley cantina scene.
   47. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 09, 2019 at 08:53 AM (#5888191)
Sez the musical relativist from the pop culture thread!


Guilty as charged.

Honestly, I could probably swap those two myself. I've only seen those ones a couple times each and haven't fully formulated my opinions on them. The one thing I get a lot of weird pushback on from Star Wars fans is that I loved Rogue One. There are a decent number of Star Wars nerds out there who thought it was a mediocre or even bad movie. I loved it.


Rogue One was a very good movie, significantly different from other SW movies and yet still fit nicely in the series, and amazingly managed to make the original movie even better by setting it up. How anyone could not like it I have no idea.
   48. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: October 09, 2019 at 09:17 AM (#5888197)

Take away Leia and women only spend one minute speaking in Star Wars Trilogy.


So just ahead of Lord of the Rings?

[I kid, I kid. A little.]
   49. Graham & the 15-win "ARod Vortex of suck" Posted: October 09, 2019 at 10:36 AM (#5888218)
And way ahead of Lawrence of Arabia, which I don't think has a single spoken word from a woman. The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly is another acclaimed movie with essentially no screen time or lines for women.
   50. Cris E Posted: October 09, 2019 at 11:14 AM (#5888235)
And of course The Women, a 1939 film that featured a 130 woman cast, no men. It was far more than a stunt, it was actually a very good movie.
   51. JAHV Posted: October 09, 2019 at 11:58 AM (#5888273)
So just ahead of Lord of the Rings?


The book or the movies? The movies give extra lines to Arwen, some of which were added to the story and some of which were taken from Glorfindel. Then you've got Eowyn and Galadriel, both of whom played key roles, but weren't around for the entire story as part of the fellowship.

(I know you were kidding, and your point is mostly true, but I won't ever pass up an opportunity to discuss LOTR.)
   52. Khrushin it bro Posted: October 09, 2019 at 12:58 PM (#5888307)
while helping iwht homework


Hope it's not spelling and/or typing homework.
   53. Jose is an Absurd Time Cube Posted: October 09, 2019 at 01:11 PM (#5888315)
I know someone who waited in line for 8 hours for Phantom Menace tickets. This person really considers the original trilogy to be a major part of my, I mean HIS, life influencing him in much the same way my, I mean HIS, Red Sox fandom influences him. Like anything else one can be a fan of there is an element of the fan base that takes things a little too far. I don't think I, I mean HE, does this but some people do.*

* OK it was me.
   54. Khrushin it bro Posted: October 09, 2019 at 01:18 PM (#5888317)
People really liked The Force Awakens? I thought the guy from Girls was too whiny and the plot was way too predictable.
   55. Cowboy Popup Posted: October 09, 2019 at 01:56 PM (#5888331)
The one thing I get a lot of weird pushback on from Star Wars fans is that I loved Rogue One. There are a decent number of Star Wars nerds out there who thought it was a mediocre or even bad movie. I loved it.

I'm surprised to hear that, although I suppose I'm not super tapped into the Star Wars fansites or anything. If not for the tough-to-follow beginning, I'd consider moving it even higher in the ranks. The end is pretty close to perfect. It is the best movie of the Disney era by a parsec.
   56. eric Posted: October 09, 2019 at 02:28 PM (#5888344)
People really liked The Force Awakens? I thought the guy from Girls was too whiny and the plot was way too predictable.


You mean like how it was an almost exact copy of A New Hope?

I was facepalming the entire last 2/3 or so of the movie once it became apparent what it really was--just a remake.
   57. Khrushin it bro Posted: October 09, 2019 at 02:34 PM (#5888347)
Ok so I wasn't the only one. I guess it was to try and get young people who hadn't seen the original or something?
   58. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 09, 2019 at 02:53 PM (#5888349)
I was OK with it returning to the original just because all I was looking for was a proper Star Wars movie get things back on track after the prequels. Yeah, they totally took the safest route, but it was reasonably satisfying.

Again, I am not a movie buff.
   59. villageidiom Posted: October 09, 2019 at 03:59 PM (#5888360)
Rogue One was a very good movie, significantly different from other SW movies and yet still fit nicely in the series, and amazingly managed to make the original movie even better by setting it up. How anyone could not like it I have no idea.
Some people detested Return Of The Jedi because they felt the mere presence of Ewoks was a sign they were being manipulated. Regardless of whether they liked Ewoks they rejected the whole movie because they felt manipulated.

Replace "Return Of The Jedi" and "Ewoks" in the above with "Rogue One" and "a strong female lead character", and you have a partial answer.
   60. Moeball Posted: October 09, 2019 at 04:37 PM (#5888365)
#55 - careful, the Original Canon police will come after you! According to The Original, parsec is a measure of time, not distance, even though it was incorrect usage. So you using it correctly as a measure of distance will surely upset some fans!

As to the films, I always thought ESB was actually the best movie, but the original Star Wars is still my favorite. When it came out I had no idea what to expect - in terms of storytelling, special effects and especially casting, it far exceeded my expectations. Can't say that about anything that came after, because the expectations were so high once it was a known quantity.
   61. Manny Coon Posted: October 09, 2019 at 05:07 PM (#5888366)

Replace "Return Of The Jedi" and "Ewoks" in the above with "Rogue One" and "a strong female lead character", and you have a partial answer.


At least it didn't have the worst sin of all for awful Star Wars fanboys, a frumpy Asian woman in a significant role. An engineer character played by a dorky looking woman?! That is crazy and unrealistic and worse than a hundred Jar Jars.
   62. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 09, 2019 at 05:14 PM (#5888367)
At least it didn't have the worst sin of all for awful Star Wars fanboys, a frumpy Asian woman in a significant role. An engineer character played by a dorky looking woman?! That is crazy and unrealistic and worse than a hundred Jar Jars.
That "controversy" was just mind-boggling to me. Although I guess nothing like that should be surprising these days.
   63. Srul Itza Posted: October 09, 2019 at 05:15 PM (#5888368)
Out of curiosity -- How many saw the original trilogy in theaters as first run films?

I was in my senior year at MIT when Star Wars came out, and we were really blown away. To some extent, it was a "you had to be there" moment to appreciate how much fun it was, and how good the effects were, compared to what else was available, especially in the sci-fi, space opera field.

Then Empire came out, and that one was even better. I especially loved the early scenes of the skimmers (or whatever) flying, and the motion effects.
   64. gef, talking mongoose & vexatious litigant Posted: October 09, 2019 at 05:25 PM (#5888377)
Out of curiosity -- How many saw the original trilogy in theaters as first run films?


First two for me. Never did get around to seeing the 3rd, then or since.
   65. Srul Itza Posted: October 09, 2019 at 05:27 PM (#5888382)
Wrong Thread
   66. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 09, 2019 at 05:33 PM (#5888392)
I *think* I saw Jedi in the theater, but I was only 6. I am pretty confident I remember seeing E.T. in the theater the year before.
   67. Rennie's Tenet Posted: October 09, 2019 at 05:51 PM (#5888412)
To some extent, it was a "you had to be there" moment to appreciate how much fun it was, and how good the effects were, compared to what else was available, especially in the sci-fi, space opera field.


Yeah, my sense is that it was largely advertised for kids, and that word-of-mouth was drawing in adults and dating people. Just so much fun to see. The other one that was really fun in that era was Breaking Away.
   68. Cowboy Popup Posted: October 09, 2019 at 06:21 PM (#5888434)
At least it didn't have the worst sin of all for awful Star Wars fanboys, a frumpy Asian woman in a significant role. An engineer character played by a dorky looking woman?! That is crazy and unrealistic and worse than a hundred Jar Jars.

Rose is, at worst, the third worst protagonist from the new movies. Poe should be hung for treason. Finn should be in jail for like a host of reasons now. I get not making them perfect and having them make mistakes, but they've been almost as effective at destroying the Resistance as the First Order.
   69. PreservedFish Posted: October 09, 2019 at 06:54 PM (#5888455)
But she was the only one of them to say "We're going to win this war not by fighting what we hate, but saving what we love!" Almost vomited in my seat.
   70. Greg Pope Posted: October 09, 2019 at 07:01 PM (#5888460)
Poe should be hung for treason.

This was my problem leaving the theater. If Poe just follows orders, the Resistance escapes. They had a plan.
   71. PreservedFish Posted: October 09, 2019 at 07:23 PM (#5888481)
Poe gets some slack, because of Inside Llewyn Davis.
   72. Jose is an Absurd Time Cube Posted: October 09, 2019 at 07:34 PM (#5888486)
Out of curiosity -- How many saw the original trilogy in theaters as first run films?


I was six when the first movie came out. I made my mother take me a second time later in the summer.
   73. Moeball Posted: October 09, 2019 at 08:33 PM (#5888520)
I've seen all the films in the theatres upon original release. Felt I got my money's worth, I think, on the original 3 and maybe Rogue 1. The rest fell far far short of acceptable as far as I'm concerned. Is this the part where I tell the kids to get off my lawn?
   74. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: October 09, 2019 at 10:16 PM (#5888561)
Out of curiosity -- How many saw the original trilogy in theaters as first run films?
I was 5 when the first one came out, and saw them all in theaters. The first time we saw the first movie my little brother was sitting on my mom's lap in the theater. When Darth Vader first appeared he got so frightened that he peed his pants. This was great because mom and my brother left at that point, meaning we all had to go see the movie again the next weekend.
   75. BrianBrianson Posted: October 10, 2019 at 05:43 AM (#5888718)
#23 gets too much praise. Mouse is right about Last Jedi, I strongly suspect neither Ewoks nor Droids are among the cartoons mentioned there, and calling Ewoks: The Battle for Endor a Yankees game is just inexcusable ...
   76. BrianBrianson Posted: October 10, 2019 at 05:46 AM (#5888719)
That "controversy" was just mind-boggling to me. Although I guess nothing like that should be surprising these days.


It existed almost entirely as a marketing ploy. You could probably fit ever person actually upset about it inside a dead tauntaun (you know, to help with the smell).
   77. Lassus Posted: October 10, 2019 at 07:08 AM (#5888728)
Out of curiosity -- How many saw the original trilogy in theaters as first run films?

I did. It was awesome. Mostly. Even at 13 I knew Return of the Jedi really wasn't good.


As far as the ratings above, I thought the Last Jedi was a great film, fun and subversive both, and I am fascinated by the fanboy war over it.
   78. Lassus Posted: October 10, 2019 at 07:15 AM (#5888730)
But she was the only one of them to say "We're going to win this war not by fighting what we hate, but saving what we love!" Almost vomited in my seat.

In fairness, actual real people say stupider shit every day. That's pretty realistic.
   79. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: October 10, 2019 at 07:26 AM (#5888733)
Rogue One was a very good movie, significantly different from other SW movies and yet still fit nicely in the series, and amazingly managed to make the original movie even better by setting it up. How anyone could not like it I have no idea.


I didn’t like it. This is why:

1) Prequels are always inherently kind of boring because you know where the story is going to end up, so there’s no tension. Wondering what’s going to happen is always more interesting than wondering about the specific (and mostly trivial) details along the way.

2) I didn’t really care about any of the characters. They were all desperately underdeveloped, probably because there were too many of them to spend much time fleshing things out by showing them interacting with each other, and none of them had much of an arc. There were some interesting character *concepts*, particularly the droid who had essentially been mind-controlled into being somebody totally different, and I kind of wish they’d taken some time to work through the implications of that.

3) Because I didn’t care about any of the characters and I knew all along that they were all going to die, I wasn’t really sad when any of them did. Which is kind of important in what’s ostensibly a tragedy.

4) The tone of the concluding Darth Vader massacre was super-weird. If I’m supposed to care about the characters I just spent the entire movie following and the success of their mission, you shouldn’t be trying to make me root for the overtly evil guy who’s chopping them to bits, and who was hardly even in the movie before that to begin with. It felt unearned and fan-service-y in a really off-putting way.

I think that a really good and interesting movie could’ve been made with the same basic elements, and I wish that this had been it, but for me, it wasn’t.
   80. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: October 10, 2019 at 07:31 AM (#5888734)
As far as the ratings above, I thought the Last Jedi was a great film, fun and subversive both, and I am fascinated by the fanboy war over it.


Mostly agree. It opened up a whole bunch of doors for totally new places that the franchise could go, and it’s really kind of a shame that Abrams looks like he’s going to immediately close them and nail them shut in favor of more regurgitated mystery box bullshit.
   81. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: October 10, 2019 at 07:35 AM (#5888737)
It existed almost entirely as a marketing ploy. You could probably fit ever person actually upset about it inside a dead tauntaun (you know, to help with the smell).


If so, I must’ve coincidentally run into a hell of a lot of them online, because I saw a fair bit of that kind of sentiment out in the wild.

(I’m sure that there were some efforts to market around it as well, a-la the misbegotten *Ghostbusters* reboot, but there was definitely some fire under all the smoke, too.)
   82. chisoxcollector Posted: October 10, 2019 at 07:37 AM (#5888738)
1. Star Wars
2. The Empire Strikes Back
3. The Last Jedi
4. Return of the Jedi
5. The Force Awakens
6. Revenge of the Sith
7. Rogue One
8. The Phantom Menace
9. Solo
10. Attack of the Clones

The top 3 are set in their positions, 4-6 are roughly tied, and 7-10 are pretty set as well.
   83. BrianBrianson Posted: October 10, 2019 at 08:34 AM (#5888747)
If so, I must’ve coincidentally run into a hell of a lot of them online, because I saw a fair bit of that kind of sentiment out in the wild.


Depends on the pools you swim in, I guess. I don't think I encountered anyone who was genuinely upset about ghostbusters, Star Wars being lady-heavy, or any of the other bits - if I encounter the counter-backlash before the backlash, I'm pretty skeptical there actually was any amount of backlash.

But of course, once it's known to be an effective trolling angle, a few people will also adopt it for fun without caring. Or more, if it gets a rep as a battleground for SJWs and !SJWs to meet each other upon. And it's usually pretty obvious, because it's something pretty meh, neither great nor terrible (let's say, Star Trek: Discovery) where someone everyone seems to have a strong opinion.
   84. pikepredator Posted: October 10, 2019 at 10:02 AM (#5888778)
I was OK with it returning to the original just because all I was looking for was a proper Star Wars movie get things back on track after the prequels. Yeah, they totally took the safest route, but it was reasonably satisfying.

Again, I am not a movie buff.


I thought Force Awakens was a lot of fun. I'm a fan of the OT (agreed that the prequels were super boring), but not a fanatic by any stretch of the imagination. I feel like most of the OT is kinda hokey and goofy; I don't view them as Incredible Cinema. So I'm only looking for something fun. Also my daughter (now 10) was somehow born a fanatic. She loves the OT. She was absolutely riveted by Force Awakens in the theatre, kept cheering as they re-introduced characters, so that made it even more fun for me. She literally screamed "CHEWIE!" when he came flying in to save the day in the Falcon . . . and since she's young she didn't have any inkling that any of that would happen. She dressed as Rey for Halloween, on and on it goes.

We're excited for December.


   85. Greg Pope Posted: October 10, 2019 at 10:27 AM (#5888788)
Prequels are always inherently kind of boring because you know where the story is going to end up, so there’s no tension
...
I knew all along that they were all going to die

This points out a problem I have with prequels in general. The people who make them (and possibly the audience too) assume that we need to show every possible thing. So for Rogue One, they killed everyone off. They didn't have to do that. Sure, people will say, "Why didn't we see these characters in Episodes 4-6?". But it's a big galaxy. Maybe they were off on another mission. Maybe they left the Rebellion for some reason. Maybe they got killed off on another mission (One that could be in another movie). I get that Rogue One was written as a tragedy, but not everyone had to die.

To stay in-universe, the same thing happened with Solo. They combed through the movies and found every single thing that was ever mentioned about Han and they put it into a single movie. It honestly strains credibility that every thing we know about Han's past happened on one adventure, 20 years before. Meeting Lando, acquiring the Falcon, Kessel Run, meeting Chewbacca, Han shot first. Why did we have to see all of this in a single movie?
   86. PreservedFish Posted: October 10, 2019 at 10:35 AM (#5888793)
All of the reasons that Vlad didn't like Rogue One in #79 are basically the reasons that I did like it.
   87. Davo Posted: October 10, 2019 at 10:38 AM (#5888797)
But she was the only one of them to say "We're going to win this war not by fighting what we hate, but saving what we love!" Almost vomited in my seat.

why?
   88. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 10, 2019 at 10:41 AM (#5888799)
Also my daughter (now 10) was somehow born a fanatic. She loves the OT. She was absolutely riveted by Force Awakens in the theatre, kept cheering as they re-introduced characters, so that made it even more fun for me. She literally screamed "CHEWIE!" when he came flying in to save the day in the Falcon . . . and since she's young she didn't have any inkling that any of that would happen. She dressed as Rey for Halloween, on and on it goes.
That's the best argument for having kids I've seen in quite a while.
   89. Lassus Posted: October 10, 2019 at 10:46 AM (#5888802)
1) Prequels are always inherently kind of boring because you know where the story is going to end up, so there’s no tension.

I positively abhor prequels, so I really do agree with this from Vlad. HOWEVER, the fact that Rogue One actually managed to make me care is such an enormous feat that it really makes that film great by default.
   90. PreservedFish Posted: October 10, 2019 at 10:47 AM (#5888803)
why?


That one line was like a treacle avalanche.
   91. Lassus Posted: October 10, 2019 at 10:48 AM (#5888804)
I'm kind of sad it's going to be so difficult to find my ratings from the last time we did this.
   92. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: October 10, 2019 at 11:00 AM (#5888812)
I knew all along that they were all going to die


I know all along that every single one of us is going to die. But I'm enjoying the ride anyways.

   93. Lassus Posted: October 10, 2019 at 11:16 AM (#5888824)
I know all along that every single one of us is going to die. But I'm enjoying the ride anyways.

Yes, but would you enjoy watching your decisions from the 90s over again?
   94. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: October 10, 2019 at 11:28 AM (#5888834)
All of the reasons that Vlad didn't like Rogue One in #79 are basically the reasons that I did like it.


You like a tensionless narrative with bland characters that don't grow or change? Wha?

I mean, I could understand if you didn't agree about it having those qualities (because taste is subjective), but agreeing that it does and then singling those things out as the reasons that you liked it... I just don't get it. What do you find enjoyable about that?
   95. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: October 10, 2019 at 11:31 AM (#5888837)
I know all along that every single one of us is going to die. But I'm enjoying the ride anyways.


Knowing that you're going to die is fine. Knowing the "how" and the "when," though, sucks some of the fun out of it.
   96. Cowboy Popup Posted: October 10, 2019 at 11:59 AM (#5888857)
1) Prequels are always inherently kind of boring because you know where the story is going to end up, so there’s no tension. Wondering what’s going to happen is always more interesting than wondering about the specific (and mostly trivial) details along the way.

That's like saying history is inherently boring. I mean, you can certainly feel that way but lots of people don't feel that way.

3) Because I didn’t care about any of the characters and I knew all along that they were all going to die, I wasn’t really sad when any of them did. Which is kind of important in what’s ostensibly a tragedy.


I didn't know they were all going to die. And even if you did, that last scene of Jyn and whatshisface holding each other in the face of certain doom should still have elicited a reaction.

You like a tensionless narrative with bland characters that don't grow or change? Wha?

I didn't find the narrative tensionless. The action in that movie was more compelling and intense than any Star Wars movie since the OT. It was gritty, the stakes were real because they could kill literally anyone in the cast (and did so!). And I'm not really convinced these characters were anymore bland than your typical action movie character. They spent a lot of time on the choices whatshisface made in service of the rebellion and they spent significant time on Jyn grappling with her past. And the Order of Whills guys were a lot of fun, and their relationship was built out in an understated way, enough to make the end game sting.

We're excited for December.


I am too. But I am way more excited for Clone Wars to drop in February. The invasion of Mandalore is going to be bonkers. I miss Ahsoka (a great example of a prequel character I was certain would die and whose eventual fate absolutely subverted my expectations for the betterment of the narrative). The cartoons are just so much more consistently interesting and entertaining.
   97. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 10, 2019 at 12:02 PM (#5888860)
I have never seen any of the cartoons. What is the "right" way to start watching them? Do I just dive in anywhere or is there a good way of doing that?
   98. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: October 10, 2019 at 12:03 PM (#5888861)
Knowing the "how" and the "when," though, sucks some of the fun out of it.

Before seeing it, you knew how and when everyone was going to die in Rogue One? I didn't.

I suppose you were also complaining while Titanic was the biggest movie ever?
   99. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: October 10, 2019 at 12:03 PM (#5888862)
Start the cartoons with the original Clone Wars series. I suppose you should watch the Clone Wars movie that preceeded it, but the movie bites.
   100. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: October 10, 2019 at 12:10 PM (#5888871)
The Star Wars Rebels episode Twilight of the Apprentice is the 27th highest rated television episode of all time on imdb.com:


But enough impeachment talk for right now...
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