In regard to Joe's stories and AG's thoughts, I should clarify that the argument that we shouldn't read too much into the roster composition of the Boston Red Sox in no way means that I think that the city of Boston or other various Northeastern locales are beacons of racial harmony.

My experience living in Boston for five years after spending six in Philadelphia, is that what's really weird is the de facto segregation. It's definitely improving, but there just seem like there are a lot fewer bars, clubs, restaurants and other social spaces that white and minority folk really share to a significant degree. The South End, Jamaica Plain, and Somerville are better on this score, but I fear that's greatly a function of gentrification as desegregation more than a long-lasting cultural shift.

Is that "no one walks off the island" trope still true?

i don't think it is, as you pointed out (and hopefully the sabr mentality is reaching coaches throughout the world), but that's also why i said "there used to be a saying..."

My experience living in Boston for five years after spending six in Philadelphia, is that what's really weird is the de facto segregation.

I noticed that every time I came back to Boston after living in DC.

But there's a "yuppie theme park" aspect to the more prosperous parts of the DC metro area that seems to create less of a cultural pressure to segregate. The difference with other cities is that that effect is more limited - you can see it in those neighborhoods you named, but not in others.

Wealthy areas have/had "soft" means of keeping out "undesirables" of whatever variety that working-class or poorer areas don't/didn't; ergo, the latter populations are/were more likely to resort to more unsavory means of doing so.

I figure Alaska and Hawaii throw everything to ####.

We do what we can out here.

I leave it to Citizen Sarah to speak for Alaska.

Percentage of non-American baseball players who are white: Pretty low

And yet, the Red Sox managed to find one.

Coincidence? I think NOT!

Black, white, latino, japanese, korean...if you helped us win the World Series in 2004 or 2007, you will be loved forever.

Unless your name is Manny.

Manny's going to get a huge, huge ovation when he returns to Fenway. Book it.

On the other hand, Mo Vaughn rolled his SUV over well past midnight after an evening at a strip club, miles from home, and miles off course from the quickest route home. I'm pretty sure the State Police responded to the accident, and there were no citations issued. The likelihood of Vaughn not having been guilty of SOMETHING is remote, but he got a pass that night.

The problem was that the Staties had a hard time figuring out which was Mo and which was the SUV.

Everywhere else I've ever heard of where high school lacrosse exists - be it New England, upstate NY, the NYC metro area, parts of Ohio/Michigan - it's the sport that only the rich [white] kids play.

The greatest college Lacrosse player of all time was an African American. He also played a little football.

Amen to #109 - as a Syracuse alum, let me tell you that when Jim Brwn walks in the Carrier Dome, it is louder than Pearl Washington, Gerry McNamera, Carmelo Anthony, and Donovan McNabb walking in together. Brown may be the greatest athlete in American sports history.

#110: You got the first name right, but this is probably the greatest athlete in American sports history.

I'd take Brown over Thorpe, though it's a close call -- slight timelining advantage.

No way about Jim Thorpe. Jim Brown did this before age 30:

- He played basketball his sophomore and junior years at Syracuse, averaging 13.1 points per game.

- Brown's legend at Syracuse was in football. Brown was the ultimate running back, and also the place kicker on the team. He set standards in football that all future Syracuse players would be measured by. In a game against Colgate in 1956, Brown ran for 196 yards, scored 6 touchdowns, and kicked 7 extra points for a total of 43 points... an NCAA record that stood for over 40 years. His senior year he was a unanimous selection as an All-American and came in fifth place for the Heisman Trophy.

Brown is considered one of the greatest lacrosse players of all time. His senior season he led Syracuse to an undefeated season as the team went 10-0, and was co-leader of the national scoring championship. Brown was so dominant in the game, that they changed the rules requiring a lacrosse player to keep his stick in constant motion when carrying the ball. He was a two time All American Midfielder.

On occasion, he participated with the track team. In 1954 he finished fifth in the decathlon at the National AAU meet - even though he had less than two weeks notive that he'd be performing in the meet, and had never peformed four of the ten events.


He was a fantastic boxer. Roy Simmons Jr, the coach of the Syracuse boxing team thought Brown could have been the heavyweight champion if he dedicated himself to the sport.

Brown didn't play baseball at Syracuse, but he could have. He threw two no-hitters in high school, and the Yankees offered him $150,000 to play for them.

Brown was the 3rd pick in the 1957 NFL Draft by the Cleveland Browns and won the Rookie of the Year award. Brown would play 9 seasons in the NFL, setting virtually every rushing record possible including most yards rushing in a season, must yard rushing in a career, most yards per carry, most rushing touchdowns, most total touchdowns. He was named to the Pro-Bowl all 9 years he played in the NFL, and he never missed a play in football due to an injury. He was the NFL's MVP four times (1957, 1958, 1963, and 1965), and led the NFL in rushing 8 of the 9 seasons he played.

Jim Brown is the only individual inducted into both the College Football Hall of Fame (1995) and the Lacrosse Hall of Fame (1984). He was inducted into the NFL Hall of Fame in 1971 in his first year of eligibility. He was named to the Walter Camp All-Century Team and was on the Syracuse University All Century Football Team.

Jim Thorpe was ranked the 7th greatest North American athlete of the 20th century by ESPN's panel; Jim Brown was 4th (Behind Ruth, Jordan, and Ali).

I agree that we shouldn't "read too much" into roster composition. I would simply make the following recommendations:

1. It's not fair to bemoan the time and energy used to document racial composition of rosters. It's data and it has significance, even if some incorrectly identify that significance. We are talking about a recreational exploit that most of us here spend thousands of hours analyzing and documenting. There's a strong argument that the racial composition of the rosters is potentially one of the only significant things to document in baseball for a broader application. I find the idea that the mere counting of data in the area of race is somehow off-putting to be amusing.

2. To use singular counterexamples to dismiss the presences of racial dynamics displays a fundamental ignorance of both sabermetric analysis and the history of racial discussion in the society. It's irresponsible critique, and it's probably the most common cop out on racial issues. Whether or not the initial identification of racial disparity is bat #### crazy or not is immaterial, it's still bad analysis.

Once again, I am not calling anyone racist or particularly interested who is or is not racist. I just think that the analysis of what race affects in our society is interesting and responsible study in this area should be protected, even if the linked article doesn't fit this description.

No way about Jim Thorpe.

No way? Are you kidding? Read about Thorpe sometime.