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Tuesday, January 09, 2018

Todd Frazier’s message for Yankees, Mets and MLB: I’m worth it | New York Post

He should be looking for a pillow deal.

Frazier posted a .222/.365/.423 slash line in 66 games with the Yankees after coming over from the White Sox in a trade.

“It’s going to be a new, revitalized me,” he said. “I want to prove that I’m worth it. I want to be prepared and be the leader I can be on the field. I know whatever team I do fit with, they’re going to get the best Todd Frazier they are ever going to have because I want to play better. I want to get my average up. I have a lot of goals set for myself. Whenever we figure out what team we are going to go with, it’s going to be a lot of fun because I’m going to get these guys going as much as I am going to get myself going.”

Jim Furtado Posted: January 09, 2018 at 10:18 AM | 27 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: free agents, todd frazier

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   1. reech Posted: January 09, 2018 at 10:47 AM (#5603277)
So, does that mean he's gonna give some of the money back from last year when he was the "old, unvitalized" him?
   2. Rally Posted: January 09, 2018 at 11:18 AM (#5603317)
Why should he give anything back? He earned every penny he got last year, 1.8 WAR with the Sox, 1.6 with the Yankees, 12 million total salary. Batting average stunk but he got on base, hit the homers, and played well on defense.

I'm not so sure on the phrasing though. He might be the best Todd Frazier they have ever had, but he can't make any promises to the future. In the 70's Ken Griffey was the best Ken Griffey to ever play MLB but not so much anymore.
   3. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: January 09, 2018 at 11:30 AM (#5603333)
He needs to understand that the league will seek to punish the Yankees for paying players a fair market value. I'm sure they'd love to have him on the team, he fits a need and was a good clubhouse guy, but Budshovism demands blood from teams who pay market rates for on-field staff.

Front office guys, well they can shove the cash in hand over fist, it's the sweaty jocks that need to be kept in line.
   4. asinwreck Posted: January 09, 2018 at 01:42 PM (#5603444)
Give it to me, I'm worth it
Baby I'm worth it
Strikeouts, I'm worth it
Gimme gimme I'm worth it
Give it to me, I'm worth it
GMs, I'm worth it
Got a glove, I'm worth it
Dingers dingers, I'm worth it
   5. weiss-man Posted: January 09, 2018 at 02:36 PM (#5603483)
Best shape of his life!
   6. Walt Davis Posted: January 09, 2018 at 04:52 PM (#5603629)
A sign of the media's decline that apparently players now have to do their own "best shape of my life" schticks.

#1: the better challenge you can offer him without coming across like a dick is that this uber-confident Frazier should be willing to accept a 1-year prove-it deal.

But yeah, he's a solid player ... with poor FA timing. Moustakas is also on the market, Longoria got traded, Cozart got traded, Headley got traded. The Red Sox, Cubs, Dodgers, Astros, Nats, DBacks, Indians, Twins (?) are all set at 3B. So are Tor, Bal, Sea, Tex, Pitt, Col, Milw and probably StL. Add a bunch of rebuilding and low-payroll teams and there's nothing left but a few thoroughly mid-market, striving for 500 teams ... and the Yanks who are trying to stay under the lux tax cap and have some prospect options for 3B.

Seriously, it looks like his "market" is TB, Atl, NYM, Phils and I'm pretty sure the Braves have some prospect options.

Maybe he should call the Cards and convince them he's a better option than Hosmer and they can keep Carpenter at 1B. (If I was the Cards, I'm pretty sure I'd find Moustakas or Frazier more attractive ... and would probably find Carpenter at 3B and Martinez at 1B a better option than at least Hosmer and maybe than either of the 3B.) Maybe the Twins are ready to move Sano off 3B.
   7. ptodd Posted: January 09, 2018 at 08:47 PM (#5603762)
Best try to be better in a contract year
   8. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: January 09, 2018 at 08:56 PM (#5603769)
Best try to be better in a contract year


He was worth like 3.5 fWAR. He had a fine season. This marketplace for vets is just brutal -- as Walt pointed out, especially for 3rd base. And Todd "feels" like a guy you just don't want to give more than a two year deal to and he's probably looking to make this his last contract (or close) and get 3-4 with a vesting option.

The luxury tax is a very effective soft cap. I'm not sure even the owners thought it would be this effective at driving down veteran salaries.

I'll be shocked if Todd gets more than 2 years 30 million. I wouldn't be surprised to see him get 1 year 12 million.
   9. Leroy Kincaid Posted: January 10, 2018 at 06:31 AM (#5603852)
Todd Frazier’s message for Yankees, Mets and MLB: I’m worth it


Also, don't hate him because he's beautiful.
   10. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: January 10, 2018 at 07:34 AM (#5603856)
The luxury tax is a very effective soft cap. I'm not sure even the owners thought it would be this effective at driving down veteran salaries.


I’m sure everyone who cheered this flagrant attempt by the Budshoviks to screw the Yankees can accept that artificially suppressing the salaries of veteran fat cats like Todd Frazier is a perfectly acceptable amount of collateral damage.
   11. TomH Posted: January 10, 2018 at 08:02 AM (#5603858)
new definition of "Flagrant" - obvious to some but the rest of us see it differently

and yes, suppression of salaries of veteran fat cats, balanced by young guys actually getting a piece (not all) of their fair share, is indeed a fine tradeoff. Which makes the slary cap, while not as good an idea as Revenue Sharing of media deals, better than what we had before, thankyouverymuch.
   12. Zonk prescribes Rezine for TDS Posted: January 10, 2018 at 08:15 AM (#5603859)
I think Moose Tacos is probably sweating things more than Frazier --

But Walt pretty much nails it - nobody interested in contending in 2018 really needs a 3B. It's a crappy market for veterans generally - but it's an ESPECIALLY crappy market for veteran 3B. MLB seems pretty flush with 3B at the moment.

I will say this - I think whoever signs Moustakas (for what I assume will be more years and more money) rather than Frazier is going to be disappointed, I think. I'm rather surprised, but Frazier easily bests MM every season but one - Moustakas excellent 2015 (and even then, the gap was 4.4 WAR to 4.0).

Who knows - maybe they both end up left in the cold have to settle for one year deals... but operating under the assumption that Moustakas gets, say 1.5 to twice as much as Frazier due almost solely to one being a year over 30 and the other being a year (and change) under... give me Frazier. But my team doesn't need a 3B.
   13. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: January 10, 2018 at 08:48 AM (#5603874)
and yes, suppression of salaries of veteran fat cats, balanced by young guys actually getting a piece (not all) of their fair share, is indeed a fine tradeoff.


Oh, we're paying the young fellows more are we? And here we were hearing about how the poor field hands were making poverty wages until they get to "the show", where they can be paid a mere fraction of a free market rate in the hopes that they don't get derailed before they can escape their indentured servitude.

If you want the young fellows to get their fair share perhaps you'd support eliminate the ridiculous draft caps to artificially suppress market compensation for the poorest and least-protected players, hmmm? And maybe you'd want to go further and streamline the free agency process so the young players can avail themselves of the market earlier and at younger ages, hmmm?

I suspect your answer will be a heart "nyet", but feel free to show me how woke you really are when it comes to protecting the financial freedom of those young bucks.
   14. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 10, 2018 at 09:01 AM (#5603881)
and yes, suppression of salaries of veteran fat cats, balanced by young guys actually getting a piece (not all) of their fair share, is indeed a fine tradeoff.

Except that second part isn't happening at all. Teams still manipulate service time, and pay pre-FA players the absolute least they can get away with.
   15. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: January 10, 2018 at 09:07 AM (#5603883)
He was worth like 3.5 fWAR. He had a fine season. This marketplace for vets is just brutal


I'm not sure why this is considered brutal. Let's say you really believe Frazier will put up 14 WAR between age 32 and 35. Are you going to offer him 4/$110? Second tier FAs have never gotten paid like that. $/WAR is skewed because the only way to sign a 6 WAR player is to pay him like he's going to be a 6 WAR player for the rest of his life.

2/$30 is pretty fair for a guy like Frazier. If somebody were to offer him 3/$40 with a vesting option be should be thrilled. I don't think he should be looking for a one year deal because nobody is going to pay him for 3.5 WAR for one year and nobody is going to offer him a longer deal when he's a year older, even if he has another fine season.
   16. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: January 10, 2018 at 09:48 AM (#5603896)
Despite YR's crocodile tears, there's absolutely nothing stopping the Yankees from signing Frazier to the type of contract he's seeking - they choose to lowball him to avoid the luxury tax (the same luxury tax the Dodgers and others have paid, and the same luxury tax every team faces for exceeding the limits).

***

Is it just me, or is Frazier one of the really underappreciated players in the league? Over the past 4 seasons, he's been worth 16 bWAR; for instance, Jason Heyward's been worth 16.5 and Christian Yelich's been worth 16.3.
   17. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 10, 2018 at 10:10 AM (#5603908)
, Jason Heyward's been worth 16.5

Yeah, no one should believe that. The idea that a RF with a 243/315/353 76 OPS+ line the last 2 years has been an average player is wonky.
   18. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: January 10, 2018 at 11:06 AM (#5603940)
Despite YR's crocodile tears, there's absolutely nothing stopping the Yankees from signing Frazier to the type of contract he's seeking - they choose to lowball him to avoid the luxury tax


Yes, that is correct - they CHOSE not to subject themselves to millions of dollars in penalties for running afoul of a punitive system designed to artificially suppress player salaries and penalize teams for offering market rates for talent.

SHAME ON THEM!
   19. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: January 10, 2018 at 07:09 PM (#5604309)
I see poor TomH hasn’t returned to explain the wonders of baseball’s revolutionary economic model in which young players are paid fairly at the expense of fat cats like Frazier. Curious, that.

You rubes would be less pitiable if you had the intellectual honesty to just bemoan the loss of the reserve clause, which kept those smelly jocks in line.
   20. Howie Menckel Posted: January 10, 2018 at 08:24 PM (#5604341)
The idea that a RF with a 243/315/353 76 OPS+ line the last 2 years has been an average player is wonky.

one of the problems there is that Heyward basically gets 4-5 PA every game he starts, but his defensive skill doesn't come into play at all in many games - no tough chances. while the leverage for his PA vary, his offense is more consistently relevant. and his offense stinks.
   21. PreservedFish Posted: January 10, 2018 at 08:43 PM (#5604345)
one of the problems there is that Heyward basically gets 4-5 PA every game he starts, but his defensive skill doesn't come into play at all in many games - no tough chances.


I looked at this a few months ago, very superficially, but if you just look at pure putouts and assists, Heyward really does make a ton of plays in comparison to my control group (one Josh Reddick, a well-regarded fielder himself). It might be one play every other week or so, but that can still add up to 15+ runs easily.

I presume there's no reason to quibble with the rBat numbers, which show Heyward at -19 in '16 and -7 in '17. If Heyward was able to create 13+ runs per year with his glove, yeah, that's average.
   22. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: January 10, 2018 at 10:30 PM (#5604386)
MLB seems pretty flush with 3B at the moment.


Are we in a golden age for thirdbasemen? There are a lot of good ones out there right now.
   23. Zonk prescribes Rezine for TDS Posted: January 10, 2018 at 11:01 PM (#5604400)
Are we in a golden age for thirdbasemen? There are a lot of good ones out there right now.


Just eyeballing bb-ref's JAWS list, it sure seems like it to me.

If you squint hard enough, maybe you could point to the early 1980s - Brett and Schmidt still among baseball's best. Boggs just getting started. Molitor getting his couple seasons at 3B -- then a bunch of really underrated guys like Cey, Nettles, Evans, Bell, maybe Harrah still with something left left in the tank. You've also got decent 3B like DeCinces, Wallach, Madlock, Gaetti, maybe Lansford at various stages.

Still - I think I just might take the current crop.... especially if Beltre can keep it together for another year or two.
   24. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: January 11, 2018 at 04:01 AM (#5604451)
Cozart got traded

Cozart was a free agent signing by the Angels.
   25. Rally Posted: January 11, 2018 at 09:34 AM (#5604501)
Yeah, no one should believe that. The idea that a RF with a 243/315/353 76 OPS+ line the last 2 years has been an average player is wonky.


If Heyward really was able to save 15-30 runs per year on defense, shouldn't that show up somewhere? Shouldn't his team end up with some kind of ridiculous defensive efficiency record?

Oh wait, they did. 2016 Cubs .728 DER, .702 second place, .687 league. Last year only .699, but still well above average and a close second place in the league.

That does not mean that Heyward is the sole reason for this, or even that his DRS rating is accurate. But at least there is consistency here. Add the player with the great DRS rating and you expect to better turn balls in play into outs. And they did.

   26. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 11, 2018 at 09:34 AM (#5604502)
I looked at this a few months ago, very superficially, but if you just look at pure putouts and assists, Heyward really does make a ton of plays in comparison to my control group (one Josh Reddick, a well-regarded fielder himself). It might be one play every other week or so, but that can still add up to 15+ runs easily.


Unless a lot of those plays would be caught by other fielders. I believe Chris Dial's theory that rangy OF gets way over-rated by zone-based stats because they steal highly catchable balls from other OF and IF. If Heyward goes way out of his zone to catch a ball that was a 95% chance for another fielder, he's boosting his stats, but not helping his team.
   27. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: January 11, 2018 at 11:01 AM (#5604595)
Cozart got traded

Cozart was a free agent signing by the Angels.
Cozart was a SS in Cinci, and agreed to sign with LAA as a 3B only because of who the SS is.

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