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Monday, November 17, 2008

*Tom Haudricourt’s truly stunning ballot…

* from Clemenza. (Leave the gun. Takes the ####### cake!)

I had an MVP ballot and voted for Howard first because he almost single-handedly carried the Phillies to the playoffs by batting .352 with 11 homers and 32 RBI in September. I like to weight my voting to teams in the playoff hunt because I think that puts more pressure on players and separates the men from the boys. There’s little pressure on players having big years if their teams aren’t playing for anything at the end.

With the Cardinals finishing fourth, I voted Pujols seventh on my ballot. I don’t consider MVP to be “the most outstanding player” award and therefore don’t just go by who had the best stats. I like to credit players for lifting their teams to the post-season or at least keeping them in the race until the very end.

I understand that the Cardinals would not have been even close to the wild-card berth without Pujols, but I still like players who elevate their game in crunch time and lift their teams to new heights. And I thought Ryan Ludwick had just as much to do with keeping the Cards in the hunt as Pujols did. St. Louis did stay in the wild card race until mid-September, but mainly because the Brewers and Mets were gagging at the time.

Repoz Posted: November 17, 2008 at 10:37 PM | 42 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
Tags: awards, brewers, cardinals

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1. xanthan Posted: November 17, 2008 at 10:48 PM (#3011087)

I think the MVP should be changed to the 'Best Guy on Team That Makes it to The Playoffs and is Separated from Boys by Being Men' Award!

2. Vegas Watch

Posted: November 17, 2008 at 10:52 PM (#3011090)

Here's the way I voted:
1. Ryan Howard, Phil
2. CC Sabathia, Mil
3. Manny Ramirez, LA
4. Carlos Delgado, NY
5. Aramis Ramirez, Chi
6. Prince Fielder, Mil
7. Albert Pujols, Stl
8. Ryan Ludwick, Stl
9. Ryan Braun, Mil
10. David Wright, NY

Awesome.

3. Crashburn Alley Posted: November 17, 2008 at 10:53 PM (#3011092)

I liked one of the comments on the article:

Pujols as MVP is such a JOKE. It's a disgrace to the players that deserve the award and MLB. HOW do we listen year after year from the voters, "well, he had a great year but his team didn't make to the playoffs" or "you cannot vote a MVP from a team that didn't make the postseason", but here we are with a MVP from a 4TH PLACE TEAM! This is such a joke and makes a mochary or the sport. An award given to the same man that complained that a player should not get MVP from a losing squad. Congrats Pujols! I hope HGH is enscribed right next to your name on the tropy and your balding head shines in the reflection every time you admire your award.

Re: Haudricourt's ballot in #2, that's just pitiful. He has three first basemen ahead of Pujols. I mean, it's one level of stupidity when you say, "Howard had the HR and RBI and had a great September" but to put three -- three, t-h-r-e-e -- first baseman ahead of Pujols, you are skyrocketing stupidity to a whole new dimension.

4. JoeHova Posted: November 17, 2008 at 10:57 PM (#3011095)

Haudricourt is very unimpressive as a beat writer and analyst.

5. danup Posted: November 17, 2008 at 10:58 PM (#3011096)

There are very few jobs where you can be this ignorant about your subject matter without getting fired immediately. Seriously, this is like giving the Pulitzer Prize to Jugs.

6. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: November 17, 2008 at 10:59 PM (#3011097)

why bother with this shit

I mean, really...

7. Repoz

Posted: November 17, 2008 at 11:04 PM (#3011100)

makes a mochary or the sport.

Now THERE is a handle for the taking!

8. Dan Szymborski

Posted: November 17, 2008 at 11:06 PM (#3011102)

Seriously, this is like giving the Pulitzer Prize to Jugs.

Actually, this is worse than giving the Pulitzer Prize to Jugs - at least a piece in Jugs would probably be consistent with the stated aim of the magazine.

I could fill out an MVP ballot in a dream and have it make more sense. Sure, the ballot would contain maybe my old neighbor, Chester A. Arthur, a milk truck, and Jeff Reboulet, but it'd still be better than an MVP ballot that lists Carlos Delgado above Albert Pujols.

9. Guts

Posted: November 17, 2008 at 11:07 PM (#3011104)

This is pathetic. But Albert won, so I don't care.

10. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: November 17, 2008 at 11:19 PM (#3011118)

"Sure, the ballot would contain maybe my old neighbor, Chester A. Arthur, a milk truck, and Jeff Reboulet, but it'd still be better than an MVP ballot that lists Carlos Delgado above Albert Pujols."

Arthur got robbed.

11. Misirlou's got a busy day, he's wearing a vest Posted: November 17, 2008 at 11:19 PM (#3011119)

I liked one of the comments on the article:

This one's better:

Okay, the Cardinals finished 4th and were mathamatically 'in it' until September, but they never threatened the Cubs for the division and even with the Brewers late season collapse, they couldn't overtake them. Pujols was good, but he wasn't the MVP, I'd have voted him around 4th or 5th behind Howard, Braun, Lance Berkman and David
Wright.

Guess that half game the Astros finished ahead of the Cards made all the difference.

12. JMPH Posted: November 17, 2008 at 11:24 PM (#3011123)

Thank God the Mets made the playoffs or he'd really catch hell for putting Delgado higher than Pujols.

13. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: November 17, 2008 at 11:31 PM (#3011132)

There are very few jobs where you can be this ignorant about your subject matter without getting fired immediately. Seriously, this is like giving the Pulitzer Prize to Jugs.

That is wrong on so many levels. For starters, it's Juggs.

Second, if Juggs Magazine had anything to do with the vote, Prince Fielder would have been the unanimous selection.

14. Jim (jimmuscomp) Posted: November 17, 2008 at 11:38 PM (#3011139)

Oooooo, a barrel. Is it full of fish?

Awesome. Ma, get the shotgun!!!

Seriously, I wish I could roll into my music theory lectures and talk about Yanni, John Tesh and that guy that sells guitars on QVC and still get paid to "teach" music. That would be awesome.

But alas, while Bach led the league in all fertility related stats, his Lutheran church couldn't get out of second place throughout Europe, so Handel took home many MVP's in the early to mid 1700's. Bach still made it to the HOF, but wasn't appreciated in his time - just like Frank Thomas. And Telemann.

15. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: November 17, 2008 at 11:41 PM (#3011140)

Bach still made it to the HOF, but wasn't appreciated in his time - just like Frank Thomas. And Telemann.

not to mention Sauter-Finegan

16. Bob Dernier Cri

Posted: November 17, 2008 at 11:53 PM (#3011144)

makes a mochary

No, this is a little-known expression. It comes from Danny Mochary, reserve infielder for the 1888 Skaneateles Plinths, who was such a muffin that the bugs called any foofaraw a "Mochary of the game."

17. BeanoCook Posted: November 17, 2008 at 11:57 PM (#3011149)

This savaging of T Hardicourt borders on child abuse.

18. John Northey Posted: November 17, 2008 at 11:58 PM (#3011150)

Don't forget that September is when it matters.
Delgado: 340/400/649 - 8HR 22 RBI - very nice
Pujols: 321/427/702 - 8 HR 27 RBI - wow, and while injured too

So, why is non-playoff member of a team that failed to hold a lead at the end ranked ahead of the guy who out hit him not just overall but also in September?

Sigh. Logic and sports writing do not go together.

19. vortex of dissipation Posted: November 18, 2008 at 12:05 AM (#3011156)

Seriously, I wish I could roll into my music theory lectures and talk about Yanni, John Tesh and that guy that sells guitars on QVC and still get paid to "teach" music.

The Japanese version of QVC made Esteban Yen.

20. ChadBradfordWannabe Posted: November 18, 2008 at 12:12 AM (#3011158)

Interesting ballot....7th, huh?

OK, really quick. Who's the best player in baseball history?

OK, now find a way to slot him at #7 instead of at #1....

21. SacBunt Posted: November 18, 2008 at 12:29 AM (#3011167)

Bach still made it to the HOF, but wasn't appreciated in his time - just like Frank Thomas. And Telemann.

Wait, are you saying Telemann was underappreciated in his time??

22. jwb Posted: November 18, 2008 at 12:38 AM (#3011173)

St. Louis did stay in the wild card race until mid-September, but mainly because the Brewers and Mets were gagging at the time.

Ergo,

2. CC Sabathia, Mil
4. Carlos Delgado, NY
6. Prince Fielder, Mil
9. Ryan Braun, Mil
10. David Wright, NY

Right.

23. Booey Posted: November 18, 2008 at 12:40 AM (#3011174)

This guys top four:

Howard
Sabathia
Manny
Delgado

Apparently the MVP is now the "Best numbers in August and September" award and the first four months of the season don't matter at all.

24. greenback

Posted: November 18, 2008 at 12:49 AM (#3011184)

Where's Senator Shelby to describe the BBWAA when I need him? This was a test, and, yeah, most of the writers passed, or at came close enough, but this clown is miserably stupid. The BBWAA can't let contortions like this represent their profession and maintain credibility. With newspapers dying off, the BBWAA doesn't face a rosy long-term future as it is. If they can't discipline themselves internally, then the market will do it for them.

25. Danny Posted: November 18, 2008 at 12:50 AM (#3011185)

Apparently the MVP is now the "Best numbers in August and September" award and the first four months of the season don't matter at all.

Actually, it's just September stats for players on contending teams. Otherwise, check out the stats from August 1 on:

Manny: .396/.489/.743
Pujols: .363/.461/.725
Howard: .276/.370/.638
Delgado: .292/.371/.569

Andre Ethier would seem to be a top-5 candidate using his system, but he probably credited Ethier's performance to Manny.

26. Cabbage Posted: November 18, 2008 at 12:58 AM (#3011190)

Tom Agincourt separates the men from the boys with a crowbar.

27. TomH Posted: November 18, 2008 at 01:05 AM (#3011191)

So why isn't Ryan Braun ahead of Pujols, like everybody else? If a guy cannot be the MOST valuable if his team finishes 4th, how can he be the 3rd most, or 7th most?

Leaving Pujols off altogether would be far more consistent, at least.

But then there is the Aramiz Ramirez thing.

Sportswriters talk all day about the little things, and then declare that all middle infielders and catchers are not as valuable as sluggers. Who hit in September. For playoff teams. And of course, Chase Utley somehow doesn't make the ballot, either, because a gold glove second baseman is not as valuable as a meandering left fielder.

I know, I'm preachin to the choir, but until the BBWAA is stripped of the 100% monopoly on voting, we get stuff like Ryan Braun / Chase Utley. I wouldn't trade two Brauns for Utley, and neither would you, never mind most of the 32 guys with ballots. Who put their stoopid caps on when they vote.

Maybe the BBWAA should elect the President?

28. Misirlou's got a busy day, he's wearing a vest Posted: November 18, 2008 at 01:15 AM (#3011198)

So why isn't Ryan Braun ahead of Pujols, like everybody else? If a guy cannot be the MOST valuable if his team finishes 4th, how can he be the 3rd most, or 7th most?

Kind of like the guy who voted for Sabathia over Ichiro for ROY on the basis that Ichiro wasn't a rookie, and then he voted Ichiro second.

29. a wider scope of derision Posted: November 18, 2008 at 01:16 AM (#3011199)

Apparently the MVP is now the "Best numbers in August and September" award and the first four months of the season don't matter at all.

Yup. If Utley had played his season in reverse the BBWAA wouldn't have been able to resist.

Oooooo, a barrel. Is it full of fish?

Awesome. Ma, get the shotgun!!!

Seriously, I wish I could roll into my music theory lectures and talk about Yanni, John Tesh and that guy that sells guitars on QVC and still get paid to "teach" music. That would be awesome.

But alas, while Bach led the league in all fertility related stats, his Lutheran church couldn't get out of second place throughout Europe, so Handel took home many MVP's in the early to mid 1700's. Bach still made it to the HOF, but wasn't appreciated in his time - just like Frank Thomas. And Telemann.

Speaks for itself.

30. Mister High Standards Posted: November 18, 2008 at 01:30 AM (#3011207)

Leaving Pujols off altogether would be far more consistent, at least.

This article is terrible. Pulos clearly deserved to win, and I was very happy he did. But this tom foolery is spouted off in everyone of these threads and it is so clearly wrong it's amazing so many smart people can't see why. Seriosly, I think you may have read too many of these articles to not see why that doesn't follow.

FYI: Howard, CC, Delgado or Manny wouldn't have made my ballot. Aram probably wouldn't have either, but I would need to think about it some.

31. a wider scope of derision Posted: November 18, 2008 at 01:41 AM (#3011217)

Isn't this ballot exactly why we have (and need!) FJM?

Wait.

WHAT???

32. HGM Posted: November 18, 2008 at 01:50 AM (#3011228)

This ballot makes me weep.

I'm so glad that Pujols won, because the overall results are an utterly ridiculous mess.

33. Eric M. Van Posted: November 18, 2008 at 02:19 AM (#3011244)

Hey, save some outrage for tomorrow, when you can bet that more than one voter will have Morneau ahead of Mauer, IMHO a far more eye-bleeding mistake.

34. AJM Posted: November 18, 2008 at 02:44 AM (#3011255)

OK, really quick. Who's the best player in baseball history?

OK, now find a way to slot him at #7 instead of at #1....

You need to do more than hit homers to be #1, Babe.

1. Cobb
2. Mays
3. Aaron
4. Hoffman
5. Young
6. Kingman
7. Ruth

35. Athletic Supporter leads the nation in drifters Posted: November 18, 2008 at 02:49 AM (#3011257)

I think Randal can stop his search now.

36. Designated Sitter (GGC) Posted: November 18, 2008 at 03:08 AM (#3011268)

Is that Glen or Trevor, AJM?

37. T.J. Posted: November 18, 2008 at 03:09 AM (#3011270)

makes a mochary or the sport.

Now THERE is a handle for the taking!

Done. And it's the first time I've ever changed my handle!

38. Ray (RDP)

Posted: November 18, 2008 at 03:19 AM (#3011276)

Has anyone checked whether a court has properly ordered that this writer be prevented from procreating?

39. a wider scope of derision Posted: November 18, 2008 at 04:08 AM (#3011299)

but I would need to think about it some.

Pfff.

You're already disqualified from voting.

Next?

40. TomH Posted: November 18, 2008 at 01:45 PM (#3011373)

Leaving Pujols off altogether would be far more consistent, at least.

But this tom foolery is spouted off in everyone of these threads and it is so clearly wrong it's amazing so many smart people can't see why. Seriosly, I think you may have read too many of these articles to not see why that doesn't follow.
----

I didn't say "better". I said "more consistent". If I played in the majors, my at-bats would be more consistent than Bill Bergen's. I stand by what I said, and I don't agre that it's tomfoolery. Mister.

41. calhounite Posted: November 18, 2008 at 02:07 PM (#3011382)

Hey, when you're packing straw, logic's got nothing to do with it. Post supporting this brain dead scan...hmm..dern.."CONsisTENT" have to do

42. Jim (jimmuscomp) Posted: November 18, 2008 at 06:13 PM (#3011548)

Wait, are you saying Telemann was underappreciated in his time??

Not really - I just put down the next Baroque name that came to mind. But I am no scholar of the popularity of Baroque composers - not something I revisit often enough...

But that Augmented 6th chord - I can wax poetic about that - all four versions...

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*Tom Haudricourt’s truly stunning ballot…

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