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Monday, July 21, 2014

Tony Oliva turns 76; Gardenhire: ‘He should be in hall of fame’

Went to a Gardenhire to reminisce…(drive/truck)

Twins special assistant Tony Oliva celebrated his 76th birthday on Sunday.

The eight-time all-star remains a beloved figure inside the Twins clubhouse and throughout the team’s fan base.

“He’s huge,” Twins manager Ron Gardenhire said. “Look what he’s done. He has a track record. He should be in the hall of fame. That’s probably one of the great injustices in this game as far as Minnesota goes: Tony Oliva not being in the hall of fame. This guy was a great baseball player and a great ambassador for our game.”

Oliva’s .304 lifetime batting average is the second-highest for any Cuban-born player with more than 26 career at-bats. Only Los Angeles Dodgers right fielder Yasiel Puig (.308) ranks higher.

...“For Tony to stay around here and talk with some of our young Latin kids and everybody else out here, he’s been pretty special,” Gardenhire said. “For me just to have him around is pretty cool. I’ve been out on caravan with him. I don’t always understand what he’s saying, but I love him.”

Repoz Posted: July 21, 2014 at 11:13 PM | 54 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: hof, twins

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   1. Walt Davis Posted: July 22, 2014 at 03:16 AM (#4755567)
   2. Rants Mulliniks Posted: July 22, 2014 at 07:44 AM (#4755576)
When I first read it I thought Oliva was saying Gardy should be in the Hall.....haha. As for Oliva, I don't think he makes the cut, but if you're a Twins fan it must be puzzling to see Puckett in and him out.
   3. DL from MN Posted: July 22, 2014 at 10:03 AM (#4755635)
Not as good as fellow Cuban Minnie Minoso. Minoso is the guy I want elected this year.
   4. Booey Posted: July 22, 2014 at 10:16 AM (#4755640)
I wish people would put as much effort into campaigning for modern snubs that are currently on the ballot as they do for pretty good but not great players from 40-50 years ago.
   5. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: July 22, 2014 at 10:43 AM (#4755652)
Now, Booey, Tony Oliva was one of my favorite players on my favorite team when I was a kid, which means he played only ...

... uh ...

... 40-50 years ago. Yeah.

Ummm, never mind.
   6. Ulysses S. Fairsmith Posted: July 22, 2014 at 11:06 AM (#4755662)
. . . if you're a Twins fan it must be puzzling to see Puckett in and [Oliva] out.


Why would it be puzzling to see the better of the two players be the one in the Hall of Fame?
   7. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: July 22, 2014 at 11:42 AM (#4755679)
Presumably, Oliva didn't beat up women.
   8. Tubbs & Minnie Miñoso don't fear Sid Monge Posted: July 22, 2014 at 11:53 AM (#4755684)
It helped that at the time of his election, we had yet to learn the sorid details of Puckett's personal life. Puckett had 2,304 hits and at 35 looked on pace to make 3,000 when his career suddenly ended. His last two seasons were the strike shortened 94&95; but he averaged 204 per 162 games in those seasons.

Oliva, by contrast, had injuries that slowly ended his career (similar to Mattingly) but was able to slightly prolong his career with the DH

I'm with DL from MN, Miñoso is the best candidate on the Golden Era ballot
   9. Tubbs & Minnie Miñoso don't fear Sid Monge Posted: July 22, 2014 at 11:55 AM (#4755685)
I wish people would put as much effort into campaigning for modern snubs that are currently on the ballot as they do for pretty good but not great players from 40-50 years ago.


Elaborate--do you mean Expansion Era guys like Grich or guys like Trammell and Raines who are still on the BBWAA ballot?
   10. alilisd Posted: July 22, 2014 at 12:32 PM (#4755704)
Why would it be puzzling to see the better of the two players be the one in the Hall of Fame?


I don't see Puckett as clearly better. They both put the ball in play a lot, Puckett leading the league in hits four times and Oliva five, but Oliva won three batting titles to Puckett's one. Oliva also led in doubles four times, whereas Puckett's other black ink comes from one season of RBI (and two in total bases to Oliva's one). Oliva has almost twice the black ink as Puckett, 41 to 22, and leads in grey ink as well. Top five seasons of OPS+ with at least 500 PA's:

Oliva 154, 150, 145, 141, 137

Puck 153, 142, 139, 132, 131

WAR:

Oliva 7.0, 6.8, 6.4, 5.4, 5.0

Puck 7.7, 7.1, 5.7, 4.9, 4.3

That looks like a pick 'em to me, and I'd pick Oliva.
   11. Booey Posted: July 22, 2014 at 12:51 PM (#4755712)
Elaborate--do you mean Expansion Era guys like Grich or guys like Trammell and Raines who are still on the BBWAA ballot?


Both. I hear more campaigning for the Oliva/Hodges types than for either of these modern groups (outside of BTF, of course).

The VC has pretty much picked the bones clean of every era prior to the 70's, and the vast majority of the best players not in the HOF are those currently on the ballot right now (even excluding the steroid snubs). IMO those are the players people should be putting the most time and effort into getting elected.
   12. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: July 22, 2014 at 12:57 PM (#4755714)

That looks like a pick 'em to me, and I'd pick Oliva.


Except one was a CF and one was a RF. Given relatively equal offensive numbers, that pretty clearly points to the fat guy as the better player.
   13. BDC Posted: July 22, 2014 at 01:07 PM (#4755717)
It's to some extent a career-length thing, of course. Even curtailed as Puckett's career was, he has a decided playing-time advantage:

Player          WAR/pos    H dWAR Rbaser   Age    G   PA    R  RBI  OPS
Kirby Puckett      50.9 2304 
-1.0   13.1 24-35 1783 7831 1071 1085 .837
Tony Oliva         43.0 1917 
-4.6    5.1 23-37 1676 6880  870  947 .830 


Only about 100 games, but nearly 1,000 PAs: Oliva was used a lot as a pinch-hitter late in his career.
   14. Tubbs & Minnie Miñoso don't fear Sid Monge Posted: July 22, 2014 at 01:08 PM (#4755720)
The VC has pretty much picked the bones clean of every era prior to the 70's, and the vast majority of the best players not in the HOF are those currently on the ballot right now (even excluding the steroid snubs). IMO those are the players people should be putting the most time and effort into getting elected.

I mostly agree with you. Most of my top 10 guys I support are from the seriously overlooked Expansion Era or are currently on the ballot (Grich, Hernandez, Dwight Evans, Whitaker, Trammell, Raines, McGriff) The only real exceptions are Minnie Miñoso from the Golden Era ballot & Joe Start and Harry Stovey from the Pre-Integration ballot who I each feel have pioneer credit that helps put them over my personal HOF line
   15. Bitter Mouse Posted: July 22, 2014 at 01:11 PM (#4755724)
Only about 100 games, but nearly 1,000 PAs: Oliva was used a lot as a pinch-hitter late in his career.


Kirby also has a huge narrative advantage. Maybe it shouldn't mean much (or at least as much as it does), but for the HoF it does matter.

1987, Game 6 1991, spending his whole career with the Twins, the sudden end to his career (not in his prime, but it sure looked like he had more left) - all that combines to form a push that Oliva just doesn't have.
   16. Jeltzandini Posted: July 22, 2014 at 01:16 PM (#4755728)
It's to some extent a career-length thing, of course. Even curtailed as Puckett's career was, he has a decided playing-time advantage:


And Puckett is a pretty marginal HOFer as is, getting implied credit for a decline phase he never got to put up. Oliva wasn't quite as good and had a full natural career. There's just no way.
   17. Tubbs & Minnie Miñoso don't fear Sid Monge Posted: July 22, 2014 at 01:18 PM (#4755730)
Well put, Bitter Mouse. Not many careers ended so suddenly like Puckett's and he likely would've been afforded the opportunity by the Twins to make 3,000 hits had he continued playing at a decent level. What's interesting is whether or not he would've made the HOF had the SI article about his private life come out before he was voted in
   18. BDC Posted: July 22, 2014 at 01:34 PM (#4755742)
I've got a baseball on the shelf behind me signed by Tony Oliva, so I would certainly be happy to see him in the HOF. Nice legible block-capitals printed autograph.
   19. DanG Posted: July 22, 2014 at 01:39 PM (#4755751)
Living HOF candidates born before 1940 with 30+ WAR:

Rk Player         WAR WAA OPSBorn  PA  From  To
1 Minnie Minoso  50.1 26.8 130 1925 7712 1949 1980
2 Rocky Colavito 44.6 21.2 132 1933 7559 1955 1968
3 Al Dark        43.1 13.7  98 1922 7833 1946 1960
4 Tony Oliva     43.0 20.1 131 1938 6880 1962 1976
5 Felipe Alou    42.2 13.4 113 1935 7907 1958 1974
6 Maury Wills    39.5 10.5  88 1932 8306 1959 1972
7 Bill White     38.6 13.4 116 1934 6678 1956 1969
8 Frank Howard   37.6 11.3 142 1936 7352 1958 1973
9 Dick McAuliffe 37.5 13.9 109 1939 7161 1960 1975
10 Dick Groat    36.7  6.1  89 1930 8179 1952 1967
11 Don Buford    36.3 18.5 115 1937 5347 1963 1972
12 Ron Fairly    35.2  5.1 117 1938 8437 1958 1978
13 Rico Carty    32.6 10.5 132 1939 6318 1963 1979
14 Al Rosen      32.6 19.2 137 1924 4374 1947 1956
Rk Player        WAR  WAA ERA
Born   IP   From  To
1 Billy Pierce   53.1 25.9 119 1927 3306.2 1945 1964
2 Bob Friend     47.0 12.1 107 1930 3611.0 1951 1966
3 Milt Pappas    46.8 20.5 110 1939 3186.0 1957 1973
4 Jim Kaat       45.3  7.7 108 1938 4530.1 1959 1983
5 Curt Simmons   42.7 10.3 111 1929 3348.1 1947 1967
6 Jim Perry      38.7 11.0 106 1935 3285.2 1959 1975
7 Ned Garver     38.7 19.4 112 1925 2477.1 1948 1961
8 Camilo Pascual 37.8 14.9 103 1934 2930.2 1954 1971
9 Claude Osteen  37.0  6.8 104 1939 3460.2 1957 1975
10 Bobby Shantz  32.1 16.2 119 1925 1935.2 1949 1964
11 Joh Antonelli 31.1 11.4 116 1930 1992.1 1948 1961
12 Don Newcombe  29.5  8.5 114 1926 2154.2 1949 1960 

   20. Tubbs & Minnie Miñoso don't fear Sid Monge Posted: July 22, 2014 at 02:15 PM (#4755767)
Intruging table, Dan G. Nice to see Miñoso at the top of the hitters despite losing some time to integration and the unofficial quota. As the eighth post-integration black player and first black Latino, I think pioneer credit pushes him well over the top. It will be interesting to see who gets the votes since Santo (who got 15 of 16 possible votes) is no longer on the ballot

Pierce is #1 for the pitchers on the table, I'm not sure he's quite HOF but he definitely belongs on the ballot
   21. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: July 22, 2014 at 02:29 PM (#4755773)
Living HOF candidates born before 1940


Ahhh ... I was wondering why the heck Luis Tiant (around 60 WAR, I think) was missing: His birthdate is listed as 11/23/40.
   22. Booey Posted: July 22, 2014 at 02:59 PM (#4755799)
I mostly agree with you. Most of my top 10 guys I support are from the seriously overlooked Expansion Era or are currently on the ballot (Grich, Hernandez, Dwight Evans, Whitaker, Trammell, Raines, McGriff)


Do you not support any of the Bagwell, Piazza, Biggio, Mussina, Schilling, Walker, Edgar, Kent group?* Or did you not include them cuz you think they still have a good shot at eventual BBWAA election? I think Biggio and Piazza will be for sure, probably Bagwell, and maybe Mussina and Schilling. I don't think Walker, Edgar, or Kent have much hope.

* I didn't include the steroid guys since they're a whole nother argument.
   23. Booey Posted: July 22, 2014 at 03:05 PM (#4755805)
#19 - Good list. And it basically shows what I already suspected - unless you want to give Minoso the type of extra credit others have mentioned (and that's entirely reasonable), pretty much everyone with even borderline HOF credentials who played from the 60's and earlier is already enshrined. There's not a 55 WAR player in the entire bunch.

The last 40 years are getting shafted.

Edit: Oops, missed the "living" part of the disclaimer. Basic point still applies, though.
   24. Booey Posted: July 22, 2014 at 03:09 PM (#4755808)
Anyone care to run the same list as #19 but without the "living" caveat?
   25. Misirlou was a Buddhist prodigy Posted: July 22, 2014 at 03:12 PM (#4755812)
That list is is living people only. Ken Boyer has 63 WAR. Sherry Magee 59, and Bob Johnson 57
   26. Tubbs & Minnie Miñoso don't fear Sid Monge Posted: July 22, 2014 at 03:15 PM (#4755817)
Do you not support any of the Bagwell, Piazza, Biggio, Mussina, Schilling, Walker, Edgar, Kent group?* Or did you not include them cuz you think they still have a good shot at eventual BBWAA election? I think Biggio and Piazza will be for sure, probably Bagwell, and maybe Mussina and Schilling. I don't think Walker, Edgar, or Kent have much hope.

I do support each of those players with the exception of Kent maybe but didn't include them since I feel many of them get a fair amount of attention and my focus is to write articles or make comments on guys who I feel are overlooked and have little chance of getting in and need a spotlight on their candidacies. Walker, Edgar, and Kent do have steep uphill roads though, while Raines has less steep a climb
   27. Misirlou was a Buddhist prodigy Posted: July 22, 2014 at 03:21 PM (#4755826)
3 pitchers are ahead of Pierce ( the 4th starter on the All Presidents team), but none have a compelling case.
   28. DanG Posted: July 22, 2014 at 03:43 PM (#4755844)
Non-HOFers debuting 1900-65, 50+ WAR

Rk                 Player WAR/pos WAA/pos OPS+    PA From   To
1               Pete Rose    79.1    28.6  118 15890 1963 1986
2               Ken Boyer    62.8    31.5  116  8272 1955 1969
3    Shoeless Joe Jackson    62.3    40.3  170  5695 1908 1920
4            Willie Davis    60.5    26.2  106  9822 1960 1979
5            Sherry Magee    59.0    31.0  137  8542 1904 1919
6              Dick Allen    58.7    32.9  156  7315 1963 1977
7             Bob Johnson    57.2    30.9  139  8050 1933 1945
8                Jim Wynn    55.6    28.6  129  8011 1963 1977
9             Vada Pinson    54.1    16.4  111 10402 1958 1975
10        Bert Campaneris    53.1    21.3   89  9625 1964 1983
11              Stan Hack    52.5    24.8  119  8508 1932 1947
12              Norm Cash    52.0    25.9  139  7914 1958 1974
13            Bob Elliott    50.6    21.1  124  8205 1939 1953
14          Minnie Minoso    50.1    26.8  130  7712 1949 1980

Rk          Player         WAR WAA
/pitch ERA+     IP From   To
1       Luis Tiant        66.1      34.5  114 3486.1 1964 1982
2       Tommy John        62.3      21.9  111 4710.1 1963 1989
3       Jack Quinn        59.0      25.0  114 3920.1 1909 1933
4    Eddie Cicotte        56.9      27.0  123 3226.0 1905 1920
5    Urban Shocker        54.9      29.0  124 2681.2 1916 1928
6     Billy Pierce        53.1      25.9  119 3306.2 1945 1964
7    Larry Jackson        52.5      21.1  113 3262.2 1955 1968
8    Tommy Bridges        52.5      27.0  126 2826.1 1930 1946
9      Wilbur Wood        52.1      26.0  114 2684.0 1961 1978
10     Bobo Newsom        51.7      19.9  107 3759.1 1929 1953
11   Dutch Leonard        51.3      22.7  119 3218.1 1933 1953
12    Eddie Rommel        50.4      25.2  121 2557.0 1920 1932 
   29. alilisd Posted: July 22, 2014 at 03:54 PM (#4755853)
12: I think WAR makes it quite clear the fat guy was not the better player. Oliva played a plus RF, Puckett a poor CF. Regardless of the similarity in offense, superior defense makes up any positional difference.
   30. BDC Posted: July 22, 2014 at 04:11 PM (#4755859)
I think WAR makes it quite clear the fat guy was not the better player. Oliva played a plus RF, Puckett a poor CF. Regardless of the similarity in offense, superior defense makes up any positional difference

That's a reasonable opinion, but WAR sees Puckett's career overall as more valuable defensively than Oliva's. It's complicated by most of the dWAR difference being due to Oliva's years at DH. Basically, WAR doesn't see either one as being a good outfielder after age 32. But WAR would suggest that in their defensive primes, Puckett was better. From age 24 through 32, Puckett's at 3.3 dWAR and Oliva at -0.4. That's a good CF (and in his youth, outstanding) against a very good RF, and WAR does see the CF as having more value.

A lot depends on the definition of "better" and what one thinks of the DH "penalty" in WAR. But both were good at their positions for a while and then declined quickly; it's not like Oliva was obviously better overall.
   31. Tubbs & Minnie Miñoso don't fear Sid Monge Posted: July 22, 2014 at 04:14 PM (#4755861)
3 pitchers are ahead of Pierce ( the 4th starter on the All Presidents team), but none have a compelling case.


Pierce is certainly behind Walter/Randy Johnson and Grover Cleveland Alexander but closer to Whitey Ford than you'd think. President Pierce's pWAR (Presidental WAR) wasn't nearly as high as Billy Pierce's pItcher WAR though
   32. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: July 22, 2014 at 04:20 PM (#4755865)
I think WAR makes it quite clear the fat guy was not the better player.


If you're limit your ballplayer evaluatin' to just prime, I guess you could make that argument. But Puckett had a career worth 50.9 WAR while Oliva put up 43.0 in a career of a similar length (all things considered), so WAR has, at least, some mixed feelings on the subject.


   33. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: July 22, 2014 at 04:24 PM (#4755869)
Grover Cleveland Alexander


Though he may be the most deserving inclusion, I'm not sure he'd be on your standard All-Presidents team (as Lamar shakes his head at what might have been).

   34. alilisd Posted: July 22, 2014 at 04:29 PM (#4755875)
30: To clarify, I'm arguing who was the better player, not who had the better career. Obviously one can say Puckett had a better career as he stayed healthier, longer, despite having a short career, for a HOF anyway. But peak Oliva is just as good as peak Puckett.
   35. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: July 22, 2014 at 04:44 PM (#4755888)

30: To clarify, I'm arguing who was the better player, not who had the better career. Obviously one can say Puckett had a better career as he stayed healthier, longer, despite having a short career, for a HOF anyway. But peak Oliva is just as good as peak Puckett.


That's fair, but it was first brought in the context of why one is in the Hall and the other not, so the better career of Puckett is significant.
   36. Tubbs & Minnie Miñoso don't fear Sid Monge Posted: July 22, 2014 at 04:47 PM (#4755890)
Both Oliva and Puckett came close to but were unable to pick up the MVP award

It'll be interesting who the HOF puts on the Golden Era panel as voters since Carew has said he's a voter and will lobby for Kaat & Oliva. Maybe Miñoso will have Reinsdorf to support him while maybe Hodges gets a Lasorda or a Koufax on his side

Tiant and Campaneris are hurt by having careers that could either be classified as Golden Era or Exp Era
   37. Misirlou was a Buddhist prodigy Posted: July 22, 2014 at 04:55 PM (#4755896)
Though he may be the most deserving inclusion, I'm not sure he'd be on your standard All-Presidents team (as Lamar shakes his head at what might have been).


Quite right. Starting rotation is:

Walter Johnson
Randy Johnson (2 Johnson presidents, 2 Johnson players)
Whitey Ford
Billy Pierce
Babe Adams

The pen has Lefty Tyler, Mudcat Grant, Reggie Cleveland, and a couple of nobodies. Don't need much with that rotation.
   38. Tubbs & Minnie Miñoso don't fear Sid Monge Posted: July 22, 2014 at 05:10 PM (#4755911)
I forgot about Mudcat Grant. Larry Jackson just misses the rotation. Willard Nixon was a better pitcher than Tricky Dick was a President
   39. Booey Posted: July 22, 2014 at 06:26 PM (#4755941)
What about position players?

Reggie and Joe Jackson*, Gary Carter, Hack Wilson...um, drawing a blank here. Anyone else worth mentioning? Otis Nixon? Claudell Washington?

* Do I only get one since there was only one Jackson president?
   40. Booey Posted: July 22, 2014 at 06:27 PM (#4755942)
The pen has Lefty Tyler, Mudcat Grant, Reggie Cleveland, and a couple of nobodies. Don't need much with that rotation.


Ian Kennedy?
   41. Tubbs & Minnie Miñoso don't fear Sid Monge Posted: July 22, 2014 at 06:44 PM (#4755948)
Bullet Joe Bush was a decent pitcher for some great Philadelphia A's & Yanks teams. Also, Charlie Hayes

Who will be added to the Golden Era ballot since Santo's election opens up a spot? Allen? Pierce? Bob Johnson?

Will one of these players whose voting pcts are in paratheses jump above the pack and pick up 75% with Santo off the ballot?
Kaat (62.5) Miñoso (56.3) Hodges (56.3) Oliva (50)

Will Boyer and Tiant, who have decent HOF arguments, return to the ballot after drawing little support on the previous vote or be replaced by another player or (yuck) an owner/exec non-player?
   42. Walt Davis Posted: July 22, 2014 at 07:41 PM (#4755977)
Cliff Johnson could hit plenty. Terry Kennedy if we need a C. Bob Johnson. Willie Mays Hayes. :-)
   43. Misirlou was a Buddhist prodigy Posted: July 22, 2014 at 07:47 PM (#4755979)
What about position players?

Reggie and Joe Jackson*, Gary Carter, Hack Wilson...um, drawing a blank here. Anyone else worth mentioning? Otis Nixon? Claudell Washington?

* Do I only get one since there was only one Jackson president?


C - Gary Carter
1B - Von Hayes
2B - Tony Taylor
SS - Donie Bush
3B - Sparky Adams
LF - Claudell Washington
CF - Hack Wilson
RF - Reggie Jackson

Bench

Terry Kennedy
Otis or Trot Nixon
Lu Clinton
Reggie Jefferson
Homer Bush

Infield is pretty weak.

edit: Josh Harrison, er make that All Star Josh Harrison.
   44. alilisd Posted: July 22, 2014 at 07:50 PM (#4755980)
SoSH, that's not the way I read the comment. To me it read as Puckett was the better player, not the one who had the better career.
   45. Ziggy Posted: July 22, 2014 at 08:41 PM (#4756001)
Yeah, unless we're ready to forgive Shoeless Joe, or Minoso gets lots of negro-league credit (maybe he does), I'm okay with none of those guys being in the hall.

The President's team would destroy any birthday team. It's actually surprisingly good.
   46. DavidFoss Posted: July 22, 2014 at 09:10 PM (#4756013)
Anyone know the nature of Oliva's knee injury? What would be the prognosis of a player today getting the same injury?
   47. Bruce Markusen Posted: July 23, 2014 at 07:48 AM (#4756157)
David, it was really a series of knee injuries. Oliva initially had trouble with the knee in the mid-sixties, when he suffered torn ligaments. But the surgery on the knee seemed to do the trick, and he really din't have trouble until 1971, when he re-injured the knee while trying to make a diving catch. He suffered cartilage damage and also had bone chips that needed to be removed.

Oliva had surgery, but it didn't "take," so he had to undergo a subsequent surgery. By now, his knees were really in bad shape.

I would imagine that in today's game, with today's medical advancements, he would have had a better chance of recovering from that knee surgery. But he had such chronic problems with his knees that it's quite possible that his career still would have been shortened significantly.

Really a shame, because from 1964 to 1971, he was a Hall of Fame-caliber player, a better all-round player than either Carew or Killebrew.
   48. DL from MN Posted: July 23, 2014 at 08:01 AM (#4756158)
Minnie Minoso is really deserving of a "Rich Lederer" style push this year but instead of convincing a hundred writers we only need to convince a handful of committee members. He's coming into this year with over 50% support from the last vote. I've tried to convince a couple White Sox blogs of taking up the cause but without any results so far.
   49. Tubbs & Minnie Miñoso don't fear Sid Monge Posted: July 23, 2014 at 09:36 AM (#4756178)
Miñoso collected 9 of 16 votes on the last election, which left him just three votes shy of the required 75%. With Santo (who picked up 15 of 16) off the ballot, Miñoso could very well be the candidate who picks up the extra votes and gets in. If nothing else, the fact that he is almost 89-years old creates a sense of urgency around his candidacy.

As far as support for Miñoso, DL from MN, Chris Fluit, and myself each take part in the MMP elections (we are currently on 1956) and see Miñoso as an overdue candidate who should already be in Cooperstown. While some of the Sox blogs may not be jumping to research and support an old-time Sox player, Miñoso does have very vocal support from Sox owner Jerry Reinsdorf and the Chicago Tribune has been supportive towards his cause too. Hopefully, he will have Reinsdorf or a voter on the panel who pushes his worthy HOF case to the rest of the voters
   50. BDC Posted: July 23, 2014 at 10:16 AM (#4756191)
That tilde in Miñoso bothers me. BITD sportswriters and typesetters in the US didn't know from tildes, and so he was always "Minoso"; but even his own autobiography spells the name without the tilde, so I wonder. It's an unusual spelling, not that I have any desire to tell the man how to spell his name :)
   51. Ron J2 Posted: July 23, 2014 at 10:19 AM (#4756193)
#47 Rod Carew has talked about Oliva being unable to even sleep because of the pain. He was forever waking up and going in search of ice for his knees.

And yeah, today's techniques make it much more likely that his career would not have been cut short.
   52. DanG Posted: July 23, 2014 at 01:38 PM (#4756312)
Minnie Minoso is really deserving of a "Rich Lederer" style push this year
I absolutely agree with this.

Normally, I’m all about promoting the best candidates for election to the Hall. I depart from this when it comes to very old, living candidates who seem likely to be elected eventually.

Minnie Minoso is going to be elected to the HOF sooner or later. He is. When you give him integration credit his numbers are in the company of the very best players that the VC could elect. Then consider the rest of his resume, as a pioneer and an ambassador for the game, and it’s crazy he’s not in already.

So GET MINOSO ELECTED WHILE HE STILL HAS BREATH to give a speech. What they did to Ron Santo was despicable. Let’s hope the Hall can avoid treating Minoso the same way.
   53. Ulysses S. Fairsmith Posted: July 23, 2014 at 01:48 PM (#4756320)
Frank Grant is in the Hall of Fame. He'd be a significant upgrade at second base on that Presidential team. Losing Mudcat Grant from the bullpen isn't too high a price.
   54. Tubbs & Minnie Miñoso don't fear Sid Monge Posted: July 23, 2014 at 07:11 PM (#4756569)
Minnie Minoso is really deserving of a "Rich Lederer" style push this year but instead of convincing a hundred writers we only need to convince a handful of committee members. He's coming into this year with over 50% support from the last vote. I've tried to convince a couple White Sox blogs of taking up the cause but without any results so far.


I'm always surprised that this site has never become a breeding grown for several posters coming together and forming a Rich Lerderer type campaign for Miñoso, or say Grich, or someone like Whitaker, Dw Evans, or Simmons. No complaints just it surprises me we don't see that here

So GET MINOSO ELECTED WHILE HE STILL HAS BREATH to give a speech. What they did to Ron Santo was despicable. Let’s hope the Hall can avoid treating Minoso the same way.

So, so true. Really I'm not a caps and bold type person but I agree with this WHOLEHEARTEDLY. I still have yet to watch Santo's widows induction speech because it is meaningless to me to see him not be there to deliver it. I certainly hope Miñoso gets the chance, my guess is he'll steal the show, even if most fans of say Randy Johnson, Biggio, and Pedro (who I think will be elected next year) won't have an idea of who he is

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