It’s just a shame that he never completely lived up to his talent.

Umm. Wasn't Saberhagen a classic example of being ridden way to hard at too young an age?? That's not exactly 'not living up to his talent'.

I remember Bret Saberhagen's first child was born during the '85 World Series -- hard to fathom Bret's the father of a 25-year-old now.

Wasn't Saberhagen a classic example of being ridden way to hard at too young an age?

No, that was Traci Lords.

Thank you, I'm here all week.

No Bo Jackson?

One of the things Bo didn't know was how to lay off a curveball off the plate, sadly.

One of the things Bo didn't know was how to lay off a curveball off the plate, sadly.

Maybe not, but he could accelerate through an opening in the offensive line a hell of a lot better than Kevin Appier.

I tried to guess the top ten before reading the article. I got eight right but had Sweeney and Dennis Leonard instead of Splittorff and Beltran.

I tried to guess the top ten before reading the article. I got eight right but had Sweeney and Dennis Leonard instead of Splittorff and Beltran.

I think your version is more accurate.

I think your version is more accurate.

Ditto. And Hal McRae? Not sure how he was as a player, but he was one of the biggest dickheads as a manager.

what's your definition of ########? He was highly competitive and ran guys over so certainly incredibly annoying if you were an opponent. He also left pretty much everything, including his ankles, on the field so you probably loved having him on your team.

More importantly, in 15 seasons in KC, he amassed nearly 8000 PA of 124 OPS+ ... although just 26 WAR. Boy, that DH penalty is a lot bigger than I thought.

How does anyone wind up with Paul Splittorff over Saberhagen or even Mark Gubicza?

How does anyone wind up with Paul Splittorff over Saberhagen or even Mark Gubicza?

W-L record and work in the booth I guess. But yes, Gubicza and Leonard were both better, if in a slightly smaller number of innings, as Splittorff. And Saberhagen is too damn low, particularly if Beltran is anywhere near your Top 10.

what's your definition of ########?

As a manager, he often decided that the best way to answer for a drubbing by the opposition was to order his pitchers to throw at the other team repeatedly. He couldn't accept losing, so he decided to try to hurt people. He was the Montreal Canadiens of managing.

Amos Otis . . . was another player absolutely stolen from another organization. He was acquired in a trade for Joe Foy and became a star with the Royals, almost overnight.

Ouch.

I'm kind of surprised Mike Sweeney didn't make the list. He's #5 or #6 in nearly all offensive categories, and second in homers.

How does anyone wind up with Paul Splittorff over Saberhagen or even Mark Gubicza?

I tried to guess the list before looking, the only difference I had was Gubicza instead of Splittorff. But I didn't try to order the list, and I was surprised to see Otis #2. If I hadn't completely forgotten about Sweeney, I might have bumped Otis for him.

I'm kind of surprised Mike Sweeney didn't make the list. He's #5 or #6 in nearly all offensive categories, and second in homers.

A guy who's the fifth- or sixth-best hitter in franchise history, with very little defensive value, probably shouldn't be on a list of the ten best players, especially when you make room for pitchers.

Top Royals by WAR

1. George Brett - 85.0
2. Kevin Appier - 44.1
3. Amos Otis - 42.3
4. Bret Saberhagen - 37.3
5. Willie Wilson - 35.7
6. Mark Gubicza - 35.6
7. Frank White - 26.9
8. Hal McRae - 26.1
9. Dan Quisenberry - 25.2
10. Dennis Leonard - 24.0
11. Zack Greinke - 22.8
12. Mike Sweeney - 22.2
13. David DeJesus - 21.7
14. Jeff Montgomery - 21.5
15. Carlos Beltran - 21.0
16. Paul Splittorff 20.9
17. John Mayberry 20.2

He was the Montreal Canadiens of managing.

This statement has no meaning. It's just words.

1. George Brett - 85.0
2. Kevin Appier - 44.1
3. Amos Otis - 42.3

I wonder if any other franchise has that big a gap between its best all-time player and its next-best. I mean, being (basically) as valuable as the next best two players in franchise history combined? Wow.

Well, now that I mentioned it, the answer is ... at least one franchise is pretty close:

1. Tom Seaver -- 75.8
2. Jerry Koosman -- 41.8
3. Dwight Gooden -- 41.5

Among the all-time leaders, they don't tend to dominate their franchise lists quite the same. But Ty Cobb probably has the greatest margin between first and second place, over Al Kaline:

1. Ty Cobb -- 153.7
2. Al Kaline -- 91.0
3. Charlie Gehringer -- 80.9

I didn't look at every team, but I'm pretty sure Brett and Cobb, in different ways, can be thought of as the most overwhelmingly great player in their respective franchise's history. Seaver would be in that group, too, if they stupid Mets had never traded him.

I wonder if any other franchise has that big a gap between its best all-time player and its next-best. I mean, being (basically) as valuable as the next best two players in franchise history combined? Wow.

Tony Gwynn has 68.4 WAR with San Diego. Dave Winfield has 30.4. Trevor Hoffman has 28.1. I can't imagine who else would be particularly close.

Tony Gwynn has 68.4 WAR with San Diego. Trevor Hoffman has 28.1. I can't imagine who else would be particularly close.

Winfield has 30.4. So he and Hoffman combined are still way behind Gwynn. That's a great catch.

George Brett's career was worth as much as Appier and Otis together... That sounds about right to me.

Tony Gwynn has 68.4 WAR with San Diego. Dave Winfield has 30.4. Trevor Hoffman has 28.1. I can't imagine who else would be particularly close.

Adrian Gonzalez is actually up to 22.9 now. He's currently fifth behind the recently departed Jake Peavy.