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Friday, May 29, 2009

Torre: Manny shouldn’t be ‘09 All-Star

and tell that Rosenberg character to blugger off! (psst…it is blugger isn’t it? I’m new to this intorrenet world since Bluster Olney just linked to his first blerg)

Dodgers manager Joe Torre said he doesn’t think suspended outfielder Manny Ramirez should be an All-Star this year, even though fans have him fourth in voting at the position.

“No, I don’t, and if you ask Manny, he’d give you the same answer,” said Torre. “I understand a lot of it is a popularity contest and you want to give the manager the best players, but to me, the significance of the All-Star Game is to reward players who had a good first half.

“They don’t always do that. But I always feel it’s great to have young players [given] a chance to make the club. Look at [Evan] Longoria, and rightly so.

“Manny’s popularity is why he’s gotten votes. Realistically, he didn’t have, except for reputation, a right to be an All-Star. It probably isn’t the right thing for him this year, from the baseball aspect, I’ve got to think.”

Repoz Posted: May 29, 2009 at 06:30 PM | 26 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dodgers

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   1. Dewey, Soupuss Not Doomed to Succeed Posted: May 29, 2009 at 06:57 PM (#3198932)
to me, the significance of the All-Star Game is to reward players who had a good first half.

I never understood this line of thinking. We reward players who have good first halves, but not players who have good second halves?

Unless Torre's one of those guys who think that you should give MVPs to guys who have good second halves...
   2. JJ1986 Posted: May 29, 2009 at 07:11 PM (#3198954)
I think he should make it because it would be awesome.
   3. jwb Posted: May 29, 2009 at 08:01 PM (#3199022)
Perhaps the fans are trying to send the media people a message.
   4. RJ in TO Posted: May 29, 2009 at 08:13 PM (#3199056)
I have no problem with what Torre said, and it used to drive me nuts when Sandy Alomar Jr. kept getting elected to start the All Star game despite spending the first half of the season alternating between sucking and being hurt.
   5.     Hey Gurl Posted: May 29, 2009 at 08:17 PM (#3199068)
I don't care about the ASG and generally try to avoid ASG topics, but if I'm going to the game, I'm there to see Pujols, Santana, Halladay, etc. and not "random guy that's had a hot start." Even if Albert started the year going 0-for-100 I'd still be there to see him...

But, like I say every year, I don't really care and it doesn't really matter.
   6. jmurph Posted: May 29, 2009 at 08:56 PM (#3199204)
I'm slightly confused by Torre's stance as he used to somehow get 5 starters, his entire bullpen, back-up utility infielder, bullpen catcher, and choir director on the AL roster in the late 90s.
   7. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: May 29, 2009 at 09:02 PM (#3199229)
he used to somehow get 5 starters, his entire bullpen, back-up utility infielder, bullpen catcher, and choir director on the AL roster in the late 90s.

they all had good first halves
   8. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: May 29, 2009 at 09:15 PM (#3199262)
And just for good measure, he'd throw in Omar Vizquel as a 4th SS.
   9. standuptriple Posted: May 29, 2009 at 09:16 PM (#3199263)
5. Really? I like the idea of a guy coming out of nowhere and earning a spot, not just the same "fan favorites" on the decline. Ken Griffey, I'm looking in your direction.
   10. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: May 29, 2009 at 09:18 PM (#3199269)
Perhaps the fans are trying to send the media people a message.

What? The media has been consistent, logical, and above suspicion.

No, the public's outrage about steroids is so intense and all-consuming, they want to vote Manny onto the starting All-Star roster just so they can boo him.
   11. Misirlou was a Buddhist prodigy Posted: May 29, 2009 at 09:36 PM (#3199295)
Really? I like the idea of a guy coming out of nowhere and earning a spot, not just the same "fan favorites" on the decline. Ken Griffey, I'm looking in your direction.


It's that sort of mentality that results in Mike Sweeney with as many ASGs as Frank Thomas.
   12. Van Lingle Mungo Jerry Posted: May 29, 2009 at 09:37 PM (#3199298)
No, the public's outrage about steroids is so intense and all-consuming, they want to vote Manny onto the starting All-Star roster just so they can boo him.


All-Star voting is a meaningful measure of public opinion? You learn something new every day.
   13. Dewey, Soupuss Not Doomed to Succeed Posted: May 29, 2009 at 09:38 PM (#3199300)
It's that sort of mentality that results in Mike Sweeney with as many ASGs as Frank Thomas.

I thought that was the "we need a Royal" mentality, or was he actually elected? I admit I rarely pay any attention to the All-Star Game.
   14. RJ in TO Posted: May 29, 2009 at 09:42 PM (#3199305)
I thought that was the "we need a Royal" mentality, or was he actually elected? I admit I rarely pay any attention to the All-Star Game.


It's the "we need a Royal" mentality - Sweeney was never elected as a starter.
   15. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: May 29, 2009 at 09:48 PM (#3199314)
No, the public's outrage about steroids is so intense and all-consuming, they want to vote Manny onto the starting All-Star roster just so they can boo him.


Silly, but I believe that was the rationale behind that Elect Manny '09 blog post linked here the other day.
   16. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: May 29, 2009 at 09:54 PM (#3199324)
I just checked with All-Century Team starting outfielder Pete Rose, and he said the fans would never distort the sanctity of the voting process to make a humorous or critical point.
   17. Misirlou was a Buddhist prodigy Posted: May 29, 2009 at 10:02 PM (#3199330)
I thought that was the "we need a Royal" mentality, or was he actually elected? I admit I rarely pay any attention to the All-Star Game.



It's the "we need a Royal" mentality - Sweeney was never elected as a starter.


No, Sweeney was never elected, but he was selected as a reserve over Thomas in 2000, and not as the sole Royal, as Jermaine Dye was elected. Sweeney was hitting .360 at the time (but with an OPS over 100 points lower than Thomas).

edited to add:

Frank Thomas has more top 5 MVP finishes (6) than ASGs (5). That's gotta be some sort of record.
   18. Scott Kazmir's breaking balls Posted: May 29, 2009 at 10:46 PM (#3199358)
Juan Pierre is hitting close to .400 and Manny is suspended 50 games for juicing. Which player is more deserving of an all star spot?
   19. mashimaro Posted: May 29, 2009 at 10:53 PM (#3199367)
Is Manny allowed to play- it is an exhibition game? He will be allowed to play in the minor leagues.
   20. RJ in TO Posted: May 29, 2009 at 11:01 PM (#3199372)
Frank Thomas has more top 5 MVP finishes (6) than ASGs (5). That's gotta be some sort of record.


Hey, 1B in the 90s and 00s was a brutal time for potential all stars.

Thomas, as you note, only has 5 ASGs
Delgado has 2.
Thome has 5
Bagwell has 4
McGriff has 5
Olerud has 2.
Giambi has 5

It was a time of plenty at the position, so a lot of guys didn't get as many appearances as they would have in other generations.
   21. AJMcCringleberry Posted: May 29, 2009 at 11:05 PM (#3199381)
All-Star voting is a meaningful measure of public opinion? You learn something new every day.

It's at least as good a measure as Mike Lupica telling us everyone is pissed.
   22. Robert S. Posted: May 30, 2009 at 03:16 AM (#3199724)
Quit crying and go enjoy the millions you've made off the labor of 'roiders, Joe.
   23. Howie Menckel Posted: May 30, 2009 at 04:42 AM (#3199766)
"Is Manny allowed to play- it is an exhibition game? He will be allowed to play in the minor leagues."

I'll say yes, as he'll be playing in real games for the Dodgers before the ASG even happens.
   24. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: May 30, 2009 at 05:49 AM (#3199803)
Speaking of which, the time of reckoning is at hand, as JC Romero has now served 46 of the 50 games of his suspension.
   25. Completely Unbiased 3rd Party Lurker Posted: May 30, 2009 at 06:16 AM (#3199814)
The All Star Game is not a meaningless exhibition anymore, though. If the NL is playing to win for the sake of securing home-field advantage in the World Series, then I think that the NL manager would want the best team available. If Manny is eligible to play, then he is one of the best hitters in the NL and should be on the roster. He's got my 25 votes.
   26. Baldrick Posted: May 30, 2009 at 06:59 AM (#3199828)
Juan Pierre is hitting close to .400 and Manny is suspended 50 games for juicing. Which player is more deserving of an all star spot?

Manny.

All-star voting is one of those situations where the fans are almost definitionally right. The point of voting is to elect a team that the fans want to see. There is no right answer. Whoever gets the most votes is ipso facto the most qualified.

Now, filling the bench might be worth raising a bit more of a fight on. Personally, I'd go with a balance of about 2/3 first half performance and 1/3 true talent. It's a meaningless game, and it's nice to reward people for a good first half. But if it's at all close, I'd rather see the actual star.

Not Juan Pierre though. I don't care if he's hitting .785.

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