So it wouldn't have been such a bad trade if it had been a completely different trade?

Obviously. These scenarios can be fun to think through, however. The concept doesn't warrant the hand-wave of a column that actually sets up a mythical universe and then draws life-changing conclusions about this one. It's just a fun thing to think about.

have you seen the WW 2 alternate history stuff? Where Hitler dies peacefully in 1973.

have you seen the WW 2 alternate history stuff? Where Hitler dies peacefully in 1973.

Uh... oh, right. The "alternate" history, Of course. (Memo to self: Sunday silence might be on to us.)

The trade made some sense from Cincinnati's perspective at the time. Pappas had pitched well three years running and was only 26. Robinson was 30, and many felt that his best years were behind him.

Pappas gets a bit of a bad rap because of his feud with Bruce Froemming and a generally abrasive personality, but he really was a fine pitcher. A very good No. 3 starter, and perhaps a No. 2 on a bad team. I also wonder about the situation with his wife, who went missing and was then found dead. As I recall, Pappas was briefly considered a suspect, but was later found to have absolutely no involvement.

Really all I was doing was wondering aloudis if Palmer and/or McNally were ever considered by the Reds or were told "hands off."

The trade made some sense from Cincinnati's perspective at the time. Pappas had pitched well three years running and was only 26. Robinson was 30, and many felt that his best years were behind him.

Pappas gets a bit of a bad rap because of his feud with Bruce Froemming and a generally abrasive personality, but he really was a fine pitcher. A very good No. 3 starter, and perhaps a No. 2 on a bad team. I also wonder about the situation with his wife, who went missing and was then found dead. As I recall, Pappas was briefly considered a suspect, but was later found to have absolutely no involvement.

Well, they could have traded for Wally Bunker and John Miller.

I agree, this was not such a bad trade. I understand it. The Reds had incredible hitting in 1965, but still lost. Assuming you want to trade Robinson out of the league, Pappas was about as good as you were going to do. He was only 26, and the Reds were trying to win now. I guess they could have gone for McDowell or Siebert; not sure that would be a lot better.

The Reds could move Deron Johnson off of third and play Tommy Helms. Plus they had Lee May coming up, and Tony Perez could go full time. They had a few options for position players. Plus they got Jack Baldschun, who could help in the bullpen, and Dick Simpson, who was supposed to be a good outfield prospect.

Of course, the trade went about as badly as it could. Pappas didn't pitch very well for the Reds, Baldschun turned out to be done, and Simpson never developed, while F Robby won an MVP. The Reds did manage to flip Pappas for Clay Carroll and Simpson for Bobby Tolan, so they got a bit more value out of the deal than it looks at first.

(Memo to self: Sunday silence might be on to us.)

don't activate the clone chamber yet, Tojo. Let's see how this plays out.

One factor that may have been very big in the trade was the influence of Branch Rickey, who was, if I remember right, still around, although elderly, at the time. Branch thought that you should always trade a star hitter about the time he turns 30 (see Ralph Kiner both for Branch's behavior and for what happened to Kiner after he turned 30). I'll bet that you can find a lot of trades in the 50s and 60s that look like yet another GM had believed him. There are people today who make that case in STL for the loss of Albert Pujols, and he was, essentially "traded" for just money. - Brock Hanke

Texas already made the Frank Robinson-Milt Pappas trade in regard to Josh Hamilton. Only they GOT Frank Robinson.