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Sunday, July 22, 2012

Trade target Carlos Quentin, Padres agree to multiyear extension

Quentin remains in California prison.

The Padres and outfielder Carlos Quentin and the Padres have agreed to an extension through the 2015 season with a mutual option for 2016, as CBSSports.com Insider Jon Heyman first reported.

According to Heyman, the deal is believed to be worth about $27 million over three years and includes a very reachable bonus that could bring the total to $30 million.

The Padres’ move to sign Quentin is something of a surprise, as he was seen as a prime trade candidate this month… Padres baseball people overcame the unsettled ownership situation by getting approval for money for the new deal from both the current and presumptive incoming ownership groups, CBSSports.com reported this week.

The District Attorney Posted: July 22, 2012 at 05:44 PM | 36 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: carlos quentin, padres

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   1. Walt Davis Posted: July 22, 2012 at 09:19 PM (#4189359)
The Padres and outfielder Carlos Quentin and the Padres

Seemed like a boo-boo ...

Padres baseball people overcame the unsettled ownership situation by getting approval for money for the new deal from both the current and presumptive incoming ownership groups

but maybe not. :-)

Seems like a decent deal. Quentin's not awesome but this isn't awesome money.
   2. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: July 22, 2012 at 09:29 PM (#4189368)
Three years, he's 29, it's $9 million/year, and he's hitting the snot out of the ball? Not a bad deal for a low-revenue team. I'm surprised he didn't test the market, but he's a SoCal guy and the Dodgers & Angels are all booked up at the positions he plays, more or less.

EDIT: Though if I were the Dodgers, I'd be looking into every corner guy I could convince to play 1B instead of Loney. That guy sucks.
   3. I am going to be Frank Posted: July 22, 2012 at 09:32 PM (#4189371)
I thought he was a terrible outfielder. Isn't SD's outfield really big?
   4. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: July 22, 2012 at 09:35 PM (#4189374)
If I were Quentin I'd be very tempted to roll the dice on a one-year deal with Cincinnati or Texas or Colorado or somebody. If he can stay on the field for 140 games in one of those places he'd likely swat 40 bombs and get himself in line for a $100 million contract from some team that doesn't grasp park effects.

But if he likes playing at home (is he married?) getting paid $27 million to do so is hardly a bum deal.
   5. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: July 22, 2012 at 09:35 PM (#4189375)
Yeah, but he has a .400 OBP in San Diego, which is not to be ignored. In a perfect world he's probably a 1B or a DH, but the Padres don't live in that world.
   6. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: July 22, 2012 at 09:36 PM (#4189377)
Edit function is still broken. Is that being looked into?

In response to #3: I don't think he's that bad an outfielder, but he is prone to injuring himself. It would be better if he could mostly stick to DH.
   7. SoSH U at work Posted: July 22, 2012 at 09:42 PM (#4189384)
In response to #3: I don't think he's that bad an outfielder, but he is prone to injuring himself.


How often has he been injured on pitches? The guy's an absolute HBP machine.
   8. Walt Davis Posted: July 22, 2012 at 10:05 PM (#4189398)
We also have the question of what could the Pads get for him? He's tearing it up this season but nothing special over all and fragile. Given what the Astros got for Myers and Lee, they may have decided they're better off keeping the average ML guy.
   9. Kurt Posted: July 22, 2012 at 10:22 PM (#4189408)
If I were Quentin I'd be very tempted to roll the dice on a one-year deal with Cincinnati or Texas or Colorado or somebody. If he can stay on the field for 140 games in one of those places he'd likely swat 40 bombs and get himself in line for a $100 million contract from some team that doesn't grasp park effects.

No way. He's never stayed on the field for 140 games and doesn't seem to be headed in the right direction on that front; and I find it impossible to believe that teams are completely unaware of park effects in 2012 or that anyone would give a 30 year old rich-man's-Geronimo-Berroa $100 million dollars. This seems like a good deal for both the team and the player.
   10. MM1f Posted: July 22, 2012 at 11:03 PM (#4189424)
If he can stay on the field for 140 games in one of those places he'd likely swat 40 bombs and get himself in line for a $100 million contract from some team that doesn't grasp park effects.


I can't believe some people actually still think that there are teams out there that don't "grasp" park effects.

You're telling me I'm supposed to believe that an MLB team doesn't "grasp" a concept that 1,000s of dudes on the internet "grasp"?
   11. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: July 22, 2012 at 11:10 PM (#4189427)
completely unaware of park effects in 2012


He has a .914 OPS in possibly the toughest park in baseball.
   12. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 22, 2012 at 11:15 PM (#4189429)

You're telling me I'm supposed to believe that an MLB team doesn't "grasp" a concept that 1,000s of dudes on the internet "grasp"?


Boy, you don't follow the Royals at all, do you?
   13. Kurt Posted: July 22, 2012 at 11:16 PM (#4189430)
He has a .914 OPS in possibly the toughest park in baseball.

I was responding to this:

If I were Quentin I'd be very tempted to roll the dice on a one-year deal with Cincinnati or Texas or Colorado or somebody. If he can stay on the field for 140 games in one of those places he'd likely swat 40 bombs and get himself in line for a $100 million contract from some team that doesn't grasp park effects.

   14. cmd600 Posted: July 22, 2012 at 11:17 PM (#4189432)
and he's hitting the snot out of the ball


He was, for a week. Excluding that first week, he's hitting .224/.355/.362 since. Now a .717 OPS is still league-average-ish in PETCO, and that .355 OBP would look good anywhere, but he's not a +.900 OPS in PETCO type hitter.
   15. PreservedFish Posted: July 22, 2012 at 11:54 PM (#4189443)
He was, for a week. Excluding that first week, he's hitting .224/.355/.362 since.


Jesus. Of all the places on the internet, I would hope that this is one where people understand not to do this nonsense. Also, redundant!
   16. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: July 23, 2012 at 12:00 AM (#4189449)
Boy, you don't follow the Royals at all, do you?


That's almost verbatim what I was going to post in response, so that's a Coke to you, I guess. Well stated.

Well, I was also going to work in something along the lines of "Probably hundreds of thousands of dudes on the internet grasp the concept of 'Under no circumstances should you pay Jason Kendall to play baseball', but..."
   17. cmd600 Posted: July 23, 2012 at 12:14 AM (#4189459)
Jesus. Of all the places on the internet, I would hope that this is one where people understand not to do this nonsense. Also, redundant!


I understand perfectly well the problems with picking and choosing my endpoints. But it's not like I'm selecting two weeks in June to say that he's a crappy hitter. I don't think he's just simply a league average hitter. I'm just pointing out that for over a month, which makes up about 85% of his season so far, he has, unequivocally, not hit the snot out of the ball. I'm more than willing to be persuaded that you should pay him because that one week of a 2.000 OPS is worth it, but I'm having a hard time counting on it to happen again.
   18. SoSH U at work Posted: July 23, 2012 at 12:25 AM (#4189469)


I understand perfectly well the problems with picking and choosing my endpoints. But it's not like I'm selecting two weeks in June to say that he's a crappy hitter. I don't think he's just simply a league average hitter. I'm just pointing out that for over a month, which makes up about 85% of his season so far, he has, unequivocally, not hit the snot out of the ball. I'm more than willing to be persuaded that you should pay him because that one week of a 2.000 OPS is worth it, but I'm having a hard time counting on it to happen again.


I think your point illustrates that his really impressive rate stats are based on a very small sample, and thus your skepticism is warranted.
   19. MM1f Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:07 AM (#4189506)
Well, I was also going to work in something along the lines of "Probably hundreds of thousands of dudes on the internet grasp the concept of 'Under no circumstances should you pay Jason Kendall to play baseball', but..."


Who cares who a GM signs to a minor league deal? Who cares? It is a minor league contract. You aren't paying anyone a cent.

Every single team in the game signs dozens of bad baseball players to minor league contracts ever year without anyone batting an eye. God forbid you sign a guy Zeth might remember being bad though. That would be proof of what a giant, dumbo of a GM you are. You can sign CJ Retherford and Billy Killian and Marcus Lemon and all these other bad, bad baseball players who couldn't hit water if the fell out of a boat all day without catching fire but you sign someone to the same kind of deal who had a long, productive MLB career? Damn, you're a moron.

Even if you call Jason Kendall up, that isn't a move that reflects poorly on any GM's intelligence. You cant' be so daft as to think that Moore signed Kendall thinking he was the solution at catcher. The Royals aren't going anywhere this year and don't have any special backup catcher to begin with. The Royals had been employing Humberto Quintero (career 59 OPS+ at age 32.. nice arm though) and I didn't hear anyone ######## about how that was proof Dayton Moore had a mental defect. Quintero's employment was taken as a matter of fact thing, that the team needed some warm body who could catch and Quintero was available. But then Moore signs a guy whose name people remember to be a warm body, and now it is an indictment of him as a GM.

Is it really so totally impossible that a guy who has caught TWO THOUSAND Major League games might be useful to have around your minor leaguers? Is there some other awesome catcher the Royals could have signed to play in AA Northwest Arkansas? If Jason Kendall can teach one younger Royal one halfway useful thing about baseball the signing is worth it.

Since your baseball knowledge is so, so ahead of that dummy Moore, who has only spent the last 20 years in the game (I bet he doesn't even realize different parks are easier/harder to pitch/hit in LOLOLOL!!1!1!), who is your awesome hot property the Royals should have signed for free to catch in the minors and maybe get called up as a backup catcher?

This puerile "OMG, dumb GM signed less than awesome player to a free contract, look how much smarter we interneterz is!" #### has gotten so exhausting.
   20. PreservedFish Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:14 AM (#4189509)
I'm more than willing to be persuaded that you should pay him because that one week of a 2.000 OPS is worth it, but I'm having a hard time counting on it to happen again.


You don't count on another week of 2000 OPS, you just take the overall statistics as they are. There's just no reason to parse them like that. It doesn't serve any purpose.

But of course SOSH U is right, his 2012 sample is small enough that it doesn't really do much at all to shift our opinion of his talent one way or the other. And you're right, he's probably not a 900 OPS hitter in Petco (or anywhere else).
   21. MM1f Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:21 AM (#4189510)
I don't love the years/money aspect of the deal, as Quentin is an unexceptional, inconsistent, oft-injured OF/DH heading into his 30s, but it ain't terrible. The question I have, however, is why on Earth did the Padres give him a no-trade clause?
   22. Russ Posted: July 23, 2012 at 07:09 AM (#4189522)
Three years, he's 29, it's $9 million/year, and he's hitting the snot out of the ball?


You put *snot* on the ball?

   23. Russ Posted: July 23, 2012 at 07:11 AM (#4189523)
The question I have, however, is why on Earth did the Padres give him a no-trade clause?


Same reason every other team gives out no-trade clauses -- to save money.


   24. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: July 23, 2012 at 08:06 AM (#4189532)
If you want to sign Jason Kendall as a coach, I'm all for it. The Royals signed him as a player--and you're not familiar with Jason Kendall if you don't think he has every intention of playing semi-regularly for the Royals before the year is through. There is plenty of reason to doubt he would have signed if Moore had told him "we want you mainly to be a coach at AA and maybe catch once a week or so to keep the other guys fresh, and that's all." There's more than enough track record here to warrant pessimism and the dread expectation that before this is over, if he doesn't get hurt again first, Kendall will wind up taking major league playing time away from Salvador Perez. This is the same organization that, not very long ago, let John Buck and Miguel Olivo, both perfectly serviceable catchers, walk away for less money combined than they handed Jason Kendall to catch very nearly every game for them. Long after it was obvious Kendall was finished as a useful player.

There is plenty of reason to be very afraid of this, if you're a Royals fan.

(Yes, I'm parroting Rany Jazayerli some here. I agree with him 100% on this particular issue. I actually think at this point he's being kinder to the Royals front office than is warranted.)
   25. shoewizard Posted: July 23, 2012 at 09:01 AM (#4189568)
I don't love the years/money aspect of the deal, as Quentin is an unexceptional, inconsistent, oft-injured OF/DH heading into his 30s, but it ain't terrible.


Actually, when you put it like that, it sounds pretty terrible.
   26. DL from MN Posted: July 23, 2012 at 10:33 AM (#4189656)
Makes Josh Willingham look like the bargain of the offseason
   27. cmd600 Posted: July 23, 2012 at 12:35 PM (#4189740)
You don't count on another week of 2000 OPS, you just take the overall statistics as they are. There's just no reason to parse them like that. It doesn't serve any purpose.

But of course SOSH U is right, his 2012 sample is small enough that it doesn't really do much at all to shift our opinion of his talent one way or the other. And you're right, he's probably not a 900 OPS hitter in Petco (or anywhere else).



I don't think you take the overall statistics as they are, especially considering, as we all agree upon, the too small a sample size. I think you do have to parse them to show how much one good week can affect the overall numbers.
   28. Swedish Chef Posted: July 23, 2012 at 12:48 PM (#4189753)
I don't think you take the overall statistics as they are, especially considering, as we all agree upon, the too small a sample size. I think you do have to parse them to show how much one good week can affect the overall numbers.

So tell me, why do you discount good weeks?
   29. AROM Posted: July 23, 2012 at 01:05 PM (#4189760)
Is it really so totally impossible that a guy who has caught TWO THOUSAND Major League games might be useful to have around your minor leaguers? Is there some other awesome catcher the Royals could have signed to play in AA Northwest Arkansas? If Jason Kendall can teach one younger Royal one halfway useful thing about baseball the signing is worth it.


Maybe they've got a pitcher with a 100 million dollar arm and a 10 dollar head. (Don't you love inflation?). Kendall will teach him important stuff like not to use his pitching hand when he gets into barfights. They should make a movie about it.
   30. PreservedFish Posted: July 23, 2012 at 01:05 PM (#4189761)
I don't think you take the overall statistics as they are, especially considering, as we all agree upon, the too small a sample size. I think you do have to parse them to show how much one good week can affect the overall numbers.


I couldn't disagree with this more. What you're doing is taking a perfectly acceptable set of numbers and fudging them in order to fit a narrative. And you're making the sample size even smaller.
   31. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 23, 2012 at 01:10 PM (#4189767)
Is it really so totally impossible that a guy who has caught TWO THOUSAND Major League games might be useful to have around your minor leaguers? Is there some other awesome catcher the Royals could have signed to play in AA Northwest Arkansas? If Jason Kendall can teach one younger Royal one halfway useful thing about baseball the signing is worth it.


Then hire him as a coach. But Kendall is pretty clearly there to reach the Majors again. Kendall by himself, is not the problem. Its Kendall, and Jeff Francoeur, and Yuni Betancourt, and Mike Jacobs, and Tony Pena and Joey Gathright, and the complete and utter joke of a pitching staff Dayton Moore still has after six years on the job that all show what a complete failure he is at assembling a 25 man roster.
   32. Kurt Posted: July 23, 2012 at 02:10 PM (#4189802)
I couldn't disagree with this more. What you're doing is taking a perfectly acceptable set of numbers and fudging them in order to fit a narrative. And you're making the sample size even smaller.

I don't see what cmd600 is doing that's so terrible. He's not arguing that Quentin is a true .224/.355/.362 hitter, or making up some narative about how Quentin is injured or distracted by personal problems or whatever. All he did was refute the statement that "he's (present tense) hitting the snot out of the ball".

cmd is completely correct. Quentin is not hitting the snot out of the ball. I don't see how anybody could argue otherwise.

   33. PreservedFish Posted: July 23, 2012 at 02:40 PM (#4189835)
All he did was refute the statement that "he's (present tense) hitting the snot out of the ball".


That's right. He's not hitting the snot out of the ball. Cannot disagree with that.

But I think he was going farther with his argument. He was arguing that eliminating Quentin's one hot week gave the most accurate view of his talents. You never eliminate data like that.
   34. cmd600 Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:03 PM (#4189866)
So tell me, why do you discount good weeks?


I couldn't disagree with this more. What you're doing is taking a perfectly acceptable set of numbers and fudging them in order to fit a narrative. And you're making the sample size even smaller.


He was arguing that eliminating Quentin's one hot week gave the most accurate view of his talents


No discounting, no narratives. I even said that he's not just simply a league average hitter. As much as we like to say we're smarter than the average baseball fan here sometimes we make mistakes. If we look at just one line on bb-ref, we see that Quentin is a .900 OPS guy, and in PETCO too! Man, that's fantastic! But really, he's living off one hot week, which can greatly affect ~40 games worth of data. Next time, I'll just say something boring like "he's actually still the 116 OPS+ guy he was coming into the season." I hope that will appease you.

   35. Kurt Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:13 PM (#4189880)
we see that Quentin is a .900 OPS guy, and in PETCO too!

On this, would it be okay to mention that he's hitting .215/.292/.385 at PETCO, and .308/.444/.615 in the road? OR would that set off another round of shrieking?
   36. PreservedFish Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:19 PM (#4189888)
Next time, I'll just say something boring like "he's actually still the 116 OPS+ guy he was coming into the season." I hope that will appease you.


Indeed it would.

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