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Thursday, November 08, 2012

Trevor Bauer “has fallen out of favor” with Diamondbacks, is available in trade talks

According to [Jerry] Crasnick the Diamondbacks “will also listen” to offers on Bauer because the 2011 third overall pick “has fallen out of favor with some people in the organization.”

Bauer: “Damn it!”

Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: November 08, 2012 at 02:38 PM | 56 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: arizona, diamondbacks, general, prospects, trade rumors, trevor bauer

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   1. Voros McCracken of Pinkus Posted: November 08, 2012 at 07:07 PM (#4298466)
I think it's clear at 21 that he's reached the peak of his career and it's all downside from here. They've already been far too patient with last year's #3 pick, and they can't wait forever.
   2. Tom Nawrocki Posted: November 08, 2012 at 07:12 PM (#4298476)
I'd be patient with Bauer till at least 24.
   3. Voros McCracken of Pinkus Posted: November 08, 2012 at 07:15 PM (#4298480)
I see what you did there.
   4. vortex of dissipation Posted: November 08, 2012 at 07:24 PM (#4298489)
I wonder if it has anything to do with this.
   5. shoewizard Posted: November 08, 2012 at 07:31 PM (#4298497)
Rarely does a team try to trade a 25-year-old talent like Upton or a 21-year-old talent like Bauer, let alone both in the same offseason. This must be a very weird time to be a Diamondbacks fan. On one hand you can start fantasizing about acquiring basically any player you want. On the other hand you better have an awful lot of faith in Towers.


That pretty much sums it up. Although I admit that I think that Bauer is a bit of a head case and has a LOOOONG way to go to be able to be an effective major league pitcher.
   6. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: November 08, 2012 at 07:33 PM (#4298500)
This was mentioned on MLBTraderumors yesterday. I'm rooting for a Justin Upton/Trevor Bauer trade to happen, just to see how people would react.
   7. Graham & the 15-win "ARod Vortex of suck" Posted: November 08, 2012 at 07:37 PM (#4298504)
#4//

I was expecting something stupid when I read the headline, but Bauer's tweet was tame and pretty mundane. I'd hate to think that tweet would hurt his standing within the organization.
   8. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: November 08, 2012 at 07:43 PM (#4298507)
Yeah, there's also examples of him reacting civilly to tweets lashing out at him.

Because Bauer has his own routine/throwing program, he may be seen as high maintenance by some of the coaching staff. He is also a very bright kid, but the kind that may come off as arrogant and anti-authority. Perhaps that is what "fallen out of favor" means, and the Diamondbacks are starting to question whether he is worth the trouble.
   9. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: November 08, 2012 at 07:51 PM (#4298510)
Because Bauer has his own routine/throwing program, he may be seen as high maintenance by some of the coaching staff.

I would say that means he IS high maintenance. They don't know what to do with him and probably don't expect him to take their advice unless they drop everything to work around his schedule.
   10. Voros McCracken of Pinkus Posted: November 08, 2012 at 08:23 PM (#4298525)
The D'Backs certainly showed their displeasure with that program when they highlighted it in their pre-game show every day for two weeks when he got called up.
   11. President of the David Eckstein Fan Club Posted: November 08, 2012 at 08:51 PM (#4298530)
A real shame, they probably could have gotten 160 good innings out of him
   12. flournoy Posted: November 08, 2012 at 09:28 PM (#4298544)
Well I like him after reading those tweets. Trade him to the Braves!
   13. Kurt Posted: November 08, 2012 at 10:30 PM (#4298574)
I'd be patient with Bauer till at least 24.

No, I'd start offering up in trades right way. So other teams can say "WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM ME?!?!"
   14. Enrico Pallazzo Posted: November 09, 2012 at 01:12 AM (#4298663)
Well I like him after reading those tweets. Trade him to the Braves!

I don't want to turn this into a political thread, but, as a Canadian, I'm genuinely curious.

What would Mitt Romney have offered over Barack Obama? Why did Mitt Romney have so much support? And why do so many people dislike Barack Obama? Are there legitimate reasons beyond the reflexive partisan bias that's so prevalent in your country?
   15. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: November 09, 2012 at 01:33 AM (#4298667)
What would Mitt Romney have offered over Barack Obama?

Supposedly a better manager of the economy, which probably wouldn't be that difficult

Why did Mitt Romney have so much support?

He didn't. He was routed

And why do so many people dislike Barack Obama? Are there legitimate reasons beyond the reflexive partisan bias that's so prevalent in your country?

For many people, no, it's all about partisanship. I personally love his handling of foreign policy and defense and am utterly underwhelmed by his cluelessness on how a capitalist economy is supposed to work. To me he's Jack Cust....a good but not great hitter and completely useless anywhere else. FWIW I voted for him 2008 because of his steadfast, unwavering stance on the Iraq war. He's done a good job ending the war, and now we needed a better economic steward.
   16. shoewizard Posted: November 09, 2012 at 01:33 AM (#4298668)
I don't want to turn this into a political thread,


Yeah you did.

   17. chrisisasavage Posted: November 09, 2012 at 03:43 AM (#4298689)
Even more war. It was Mittler vs. a Sorta-Black Stalin and Sorta-Black stalin won. The overly socialist direction will fail the economy, but it will reboot sooner than later once Barack's economic policies fail, but I'd take socialism over the mass murder of brown colored people. You can recover from the first choice. The second one will bring death and destruction and nothing more.

Also, the Chris Rock message to white voters was hilarious.
   18. chrisisasavage Posted: November 09, 2012 at 03:44 AM (#4298690)
BBTF gets more political than the Drugged Report can dream over. Those people aren't political, their just stupid.
   19. chrisisasavage Posted: November 09, 2012 at 03:48 AM (#4298691)
Also too many people thought Mittler was a good choice because his middle name wasn't Hussein. I personally find the Left-Right paradigm as false one. It's just "The party", as in the Republicrats. Freedom seems to be a forgotten concept in the USSA.
   20. chrisisasavage Posted: November 09, 2012 at 03:49 AM (#4298692)
I also like drinking beer and posting several consecutive posts of disjointed thoughts to be any annoying troll.
   21. chrisisasavage Posted: November 09, 2012 at 03:49 AM (#4298693)
Or ADDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD as I like to call it.
   22. chrisisasavage Posted: November 09, 2012 at 03:53 AM (#4298694)
Back to TFA, my suspicion is Bauer will go all Scherzer and actually be good once he's traded.
   23. KT's Pot Arb Posted: November 09, 2012 at 04:11 AM (#4298699)
I don't want to turn this into a political thread, but, as a Canadian, I'm genuinely curious.


$16 trillion in unsustainable debt growing faster than at any time in history with no solution ins sight is one big reason. But that doesn't mean that Romney could have solved that problem.

He didn't. He was routed


Yes, totally crushed him by 50.5% to 48%.
   24. Jim Wisinski Posted: November 09, 2012 at 05:09 AM (#4298706)
Holy crap, like it's difficult the notice the freaking OT: Politics thread that has been the top entry in Hot Topics more often than not for the past months?

As for Bauer this seems pretty bizarre but I suppose could be a smart move if the D'Backs really do think he's too difficult to deal with and unlikely to pan out; selling high before his stock gets low over time. The problem if I'm an Arizona fan is this:

On the other hand you better have an awful lot of faith in Towers.


Towers is a guy that's hard to figure out as an exec, sometimes he seems really successful and other times you wonder why the hell he has spent so many years as a major league GM. The bust potential involved with him trading two valuable young commodities seems pretty high.
   25. AJMcCringleberry Posted: November 09, 2012 at 08:13 AM (#4298712)
Because Bauer has his own routine/throwing program, he may be seen as high maintenance by some of the coaching staff.

Wouldn't him doing his own thing be low maintenance?
   26. Rants Mulliniks Posted: November 09, 2012 at 09:07 AM (#4298721)
Bauer and Upton to the Jays for Arencibia, Escobar and Rajai Davis.
   27. zack Posted: November 09, 2012 at 09:46 AM (#4298729)

Wouldn't him doing his own thing be low maintenance?


I don't think so. If you're his coach or coordinator, you're still responsible for his development, but now you have to learn two systems and track and evaluate both. If you have a fleet of 1980's Dodges, even a much more reliable Honda is high-maintenance because it requires it's own tool-, part- and knowledge-base.
   28. Jorge Luis Bourjos (Walewander) Posted: November 09, 2012 at 10:01 AM (#4298730)

shoewizard, or others - why do you think Bauer has so far to go to be an effective major league pitcher? His stint in the majors wasn't great, but he dominated the minors and made the bigs the year after he was drafted. He has difficulty with not challenging big league hitters enough in the strike zone, and not being efficient enough, but his h/9 and k/9 rates are fabulous.
   29. JJ1986 Posted: November 09, 2012 at 10:09 AM (#4298734)
I'll bet he ends up with the Angels.
   30. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: November 09, 2012 at 10:31 AM (#4298739)
Because Bauer has his own routine/throwing program, he may be seen as high maintenance by some of the coaching staff. He is also a very bright kid, but the kind that may come off as arrogant and anti-authority. Perhaps that is what "fallen out of favor" means, and the Diamondbacks are starting to question whether he is worth the trouble.


Can't the DBacks look in their own division and see that a guy who does it his own way CAN be successful?

Pissing away talent so you can conform to process is just stupid in a talent-driven industry. You can let a non-bathing, excellent programmer go because the difference between a fungible programmer and excellent programmer won't be even a rounding error on the bottom line, but a 21 year old pitcher with big upside?
   31. Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band. Posted: November 09, 2012 at 11:44 AM (#4298792)
Enrico, feel free to ask your question on the OT thread. It's a mess, but there's some smart folks with different perspectives there. And a few party doctrinaires and the occasional nutter, but whatever.
(No fair guessing which group I fall into.)

Anyway... I really, really doubt politics have anything to do with any potential interest in moving Bauer (not sure if they actually want to do this, there's enough smoke out there that it's a possbility). He definitely seems like someone who marches to his own drum, which doesn't work in a lot of orgs unless you're consistently successful. Anyway, heck yeah I'd pursue him.
   32. bookbook Posted: November 09, 2012 at 01:41 PM (#4298916)
Most importantly, I'd love to have Bauer. This reminds me, potentially, of the M's mistake in unloading Brandon Morrow a couple of years ago.

Secondarily, the quality of political discourse on BBTF is horrific (almost as bad as CDS). I don't want to delve too deeply, but economic growth is slow for many reasons. The incumbent will only garner a small win under those circumstances, regardless of the merit. (To get credit for the depression you prevented is nearly impossible, a bit like proving a negative.) The US did pretty well for itself in the past election.
   33. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: November 09, 2012 at 02:10 PM (#4298953)
Bauer and Upton to the Jays for Arencibia, Escobar and Rajai Davis.


That's not nearly enough. You'd have to throw in Adam Lind and maybe even Jeff Mathis.
   34. Willie Mayspedes Posted: November 09, 2012 at 02:29 PM (#4298994)
Bauer and Upton to the A's for Parker and Reddick, actually no that wouldn't be fair, throw in Cahill too.
   35. vivaelpujols Posted: November 09, 2012 at 02:30 PM (#4298995)
Although I admit that I think that Bauer is a bit of a head case and has a LOOOONG way to go to be able to be an effective major league pitcher.


Really? He had a 2.85 ERA and a 3.38 ERA in AAA last year (82 innings, all starting) and a 1.68 ERA and 2.72 FIP in AA last year(48 innings, all starting). Seems about major league ready to me.
   36. Rants Mulliniks Posted: November 09, 2012 at 02:34 PM (#4299001)
That's not nearly enough. You'd have to throw in Adam Lind and maybe even Jeff Mathis.


Haha. Done!
   37. Rants Mulliniks Posted: November 09, 2012 at 02:38 PM (#4299003)
Bauer has said that he's not all that concerned about walks, and he likes to pitch up in the zone. So are his high walk totals a reflection of philosophy, or his actual control/command? If his excellent PCL numbers aren't a sample size illusion, there's no reason to think he can' succed in the majors. Despite being a flyball pitcher, he doesn't give up many homers.
   38. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: November 09, 2012 at 03:00 PM (#4299031)
The bust potential involved with him trading two valuable young commodities seems pretty high.


This. Maybe one of those cases where the org knows something we don't?
   39. vivaelpujols Posted: November 09, 2012 at 03:34 PM (#4299064)
Upton's had 5 years in the bigs already, there's no "bust potential".
   40. spycake Posted: November 09, 2012 at 03:51 PM (#4299078)
I'm rooting for a Justin Upton/Trevor Bauer trade to happen, just to see how people would react.

I too would love to see the Diamondbacks trade Justin Upton for Trevor Bauer. That would be wild! A self-contained challenge trade!
   41. Jim Wisinski Posted: November 09, 2012 at 07:12 PM (#4299262)
39, I when I said bust potential I was talking about the possibility of Towers screwing up trades that should net a great return
   42. Jack Carter, calling Beleaguered Castle Posted: November 10, 2012 at 02:56 AM (#4299457)
As someone who voted for Obama, I find it sad and strange that a player would get flack for tweeting a political opinion, even a foolish political opinion.
   43. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: November 10, 2012 at 10:29 AM (#4299499)
if the diamondsback management is determined to be fritter away talent then doug melvin should offer up marco estrada, corey hart and taylor green for upton/bauer as quickly as possible.

estrada has been competent in the majors, hart is a legit 30 homer guy and green might be able to play at the major league level if someone gives him a steady job to find out.

hey, i am not claiming this a deal the d'backs cannot refuse. it's a deal based on the perception that arizona leadership is kind of loony so why not give it a shot?

you don't ask you don't get.

first rule of deal making.
   44. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: November 10, 2012 at 10:33 AM (#4299500)
and yes i know hart's power has a lot to due with miller park. the d'backs park is even more helpful to someone like hart

hart has slugged over .500 3 straight seasons. fella can launch a baseball.

his speed has diminished, he isn't much of a right fielder, the whole ball four thing happens more by chance than design and he's 30 and i suspect going to be done as a regular in 2-3 years but other than that he's quite the catch
   45. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: November 10, 2012 at 10:34 AM (#4299501)
i like corey. but he is exactly the kind of guy doug melvin should be looking to trade 'now'

it's all downhill from here while at a higher price

no thanks
   46. formerly dp Posted: November 10, 2012 at 11:12 AM (#4299503)
Bauer and Upton to the Jays for Arencibia, Escobar and Rajai Davis.


Rants, did you read that AA wants to go with on-hand talent for LF next year? So in case you didn't get your fill of Rajai in 2012...

I'm not quite sure how Arencibia will be valued. He's the starter again going into 2013, right?
   47. tshipman Posted: November 10, 2012 at 11:33 AM (#4299507)
Any trade where you give up Justin Upton and Trevor Bauer is pretty much guaranteed to be a terrible trade.

Fangraphs posted a story about a potential Upton/Andrus trade and it struck me how I would never make that deal if I were Texas. It's pretty certain that the D-Backs are going to make a bad deal here. That's fine by me, as a Giants' fan.
   48. Jorge Luis Bourjos (Walewander) Posted: November 10, 2012 at 06:54 PM (#4299754)

What I don't get... why put this out there about Bauer? It hurts Bauer's value as a trade chip and it might piss Bauer off or hurt his confidence (he seems pretty damn confident, but there is a risk). So where's the upside for Arizona in poor-mouthing one of your most talented young players? Same thing with how they've handled Upton over the last year. If I was ownership I'd be pissed, but it seems like they are on board with these kinds of antics.

Can anyone tell me what Towers is trying to accomplish with this stuff?
   49. Steve Treder Posted: November 10, 2012 at 09:40 PM (#4299828)
So where's the upside for Arizona in poor-mouthing one of your most talented young players? Same thing with how they've handled Upton over the last year. If I was ownership I'd be pissed, but it seems like they are on board with these kinds of antics.

Can anyone tell me what Towers is trying to accomplish with this stuff?


I agree, it's completely baffling. But like tshipman, as a Giants fan I say, please let the Arizona dysfunctionality grow and prosper.
   50. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: November 11, 2012 at 01:38 PM (#4300054)
As someone who voted for Obama, I find it sad and strange that a player would get flack for tweeting a political opinion, even a foolish political opinion.


An ordinary person would catch flack for something like that. Happens on Facebook every day. Why should a player be any different?
   51. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: November 11, 2012 at 01:39 PM (#4300056)
Upton's had 5 years in the bigs already, there's no "bust potential".


He could always get implants.
   52. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: November 11, 2012 at 01:44 PM (#4300059)
As someone who voted for Obama, I find it sad and strange that a player would get flack for tweeting a political opinion, even a foolish political opinion.

An ordinary person would catch flack for something like that. Happens on Facebook every day. Why should a player be any different?
Catch flack from your friends and peers and such? Sure.

Catch flack from your employer? I don't doubt that some employers will pull #### like that, but they shouldn't. And for the vast majority of rich people with fancy jobs, their employers won't do a thing. If this is actually Arizona's problem (if there is a problem in the first place), it's both weird and dumb.
   53. Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band. Posted: November 11, 2012 at 03:31 PM (#4300104)
One other note on Bauer's politics vis-a-vis that of the Diamondbacks' ownership - they probably overlap considerably. Both Kendrick and the previous owner Colangelo are closely tied to the Republican party. That said, Kendrick previously remarked of Bauer:
"He is the employee ... in an employer/employee situation it's incumbent on the employee to make adjustments to satisfy the needs of the employer. I hope and trust that that will occur."
   54. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: November 11, 2012 at 03:41 PM (#4300112)
Can anyone tell me what Towers is trying to accomplish with this stuff?
To be fair, it isn't like Towers is out there making these announcements. I'm sure he would rather trade Bauer in secret, but apparently his office has some leaks.
   55. Squash Posted: November 11, 2012 at 05:49 PM (#4300193)
One other note on Bauer's politics vis-a-vis that of the Diamondbacks' ownership - they probably overlap considerably. Both Kendrick and the previous owner Colangelo are closely tied to the Republican party. That said, Kendrick previously remarked of Bauer:

I was going to say, this is Arizona. It's not like he made these comments in San Francisco or something. Regardless, nowhere does it say in the article that he's in trouble b/c of his political tweets - it's just speculation we've generated and are running with. It's probably vastly more that he refuses to pitch the way they want, even after having lots of trouble in his first go in the bigs this year. And that he won't shut up about refusing to pitch the way they want.

Pure speculation on my point, but Bauer seems like the kind of kid who is probably pretty intelligent, but seems to be lacking the experience/wisdom/people skills as of yet to know how to use his intelligence to his best advantage and not come off as a mouthy little kid. They should trade him to the A's for a selection of middle relievers.
   56. Mike Emeigh Posted: November 11, 2012 at 06:20 PM (#4300215)
It's probably vastly more that he refuses to pitch the way they want, even after having lots of trouble in his first go in the bigs this year. And that he won't shut up about refusing to pitch the way they want.


This.

I also note that Crasnick refers to Bauer falling out of favor with some people in the organization, with no indication of who those people might be.

-- MWE

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