Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Thursday, December 19, 2013

Tribe sends Stubbs to Rox for Outman

Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: December 19, 2013 at 09:25 AM | 26 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: cleveland, cleveland indians, colorado, general, indians, rockies, trades

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: December 19, 2013 at 01:12 PM (#4620961)
Why do the Rockies want Stubbs? Don't they want fly ball hitters with power? I get that the OF is hard to cover but can't they manage that via GB pitchers like Outman? I don't get this deal for the Rockies?
   2. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 19, 2013 at 01:16 PM (#4620965)
I really have no idea what the Rox are doing with their offseason.
   3. I Am Not a Number Posted: December 19, 2013 at 02:08 PM (#4621014)
One out man traded for another.
   4. Jim Wisinski Posted: December 19, 2013 at 02:09 PM (#4621016)
How many years in a row could we go back in the archives and find a similar comment to #2 being made?
   5. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: December 19, 2013 at 02:13 PM (#4621028)
How many years in a row could we go back in the archives and find a similar comment to #2 being made?
There are three teams whose offseason plans are (to me) completely inscrutable (and have been for many years), and they all play in the NL West: The Rockies, Padres, and Diamondbacks.
   6. Shooty is obsessed with the latest hoodie Posted: December 19, 2013 at 02:19 PM (#4621038)
They dump Dexter Fowler to save money (theoretically) and then use that cash for Stubbs and Boone Logan?
   7. I Am Not a Number Posted: December 19, 2013 at 02:19 PM (#4621039)
There are three teams whose offseason plans are (to me) completely inscrutable

The Phillies' off-season qualifies, at least if rumors are to be believed. They have invested in old players for a win-now strategy and yet are rumored to be willing to move any number of expensive, productive players (Lee, Hamels, Papelbon). Or maybe Amaro's just trolling the media.
   8. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 19, 2013 at 02:27 PM (#4621053)
The Phillies' off-season qualifies, at least if rumors are to be believed. They have invested in old players for a win-now strategy and yet are rumored to be willing to move any number of expensive, productive players (Lee, Hamels, Papelbon). Or maybe Amaro's just trolling the media.


Its not that inscrutable. They're trying to dump expensive old players in order to get new expensive old players.
   9. Shooty is obsessed with the latest hoodie Posted: December 19, 2013 at 02:28 PM (#4621054)
The A's offseason is kind of weird, too.
   10. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: December 19, 2013 at 02:36 PM (#4621061)
Stubbs is fine as the smaller half of a platoon. Plus he can run and field, which give him value as a reserve. He just shouldn't be starting against righties.
   11. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: December 19, 2013 at 02:48 PM (#4621084)
The A's offseason is kind of weird, too.

I thought they were going "all in" for 2014-15 until they traded Brett Anderson for bit parts.
   12. Jose is El Absurd Pollo Posted: December 19, 2013 at 02:53 PM (#4621093)
Stubbs is fine as the smaller half of a platoon.


I'm not a fan of a guy like Stubbs in the short half of a platoon. I'm sure the study exists somewhere but it just seems that high strikeout players would be more likely to struggle playing sporadically. With their big long swings letting them play every day would keep them in some kind of a rhythm but playing once every 3 days seems like a recipe for 0 for 4 with 3 Ks pretty regularly.
   13. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 19, 2013 at 02:57 PM (#4621096)
So, Outman and Balfour. Best and worst names ever for a pitcher?
   14. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 19, 2013 at 02:59 PM (#4621101)
I'm not a fan of a guy like Stubbs in the short half of a platoon. I'm sure the study exists somewhere but it just seems that high strikeout players would be more likely to struggle playing sporadically. With their big long swings letting them play every day would keep them in some kind of a rhythm but playing once every 3 days seems like a recipe for 0 for 4 with 3 Ks pretty regularly.

Also, he's just not that good against lefties. 117 career wRC+, but only ~110 the last 2 years.

If I'm looking for a lefty masher, get one that can actually mash.
   15. Karl from NY Posted: December 19, 2013 at 03:24 PM (#4621129)
Bob Walk is in the conversation too.
   16. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: December 19, 2013 at 03:32 PM (#4621139)
They dump Dexter Fowler to save money (theoretically) and then use that cash for Stubbs and Boone Logan?

Being desperate to get rid of Dexter Fowler and replace him with Drew Stubbs makes sense only if the Rockies are expecting to be transported 80 years into the past.
   17. zonk Posted: December 19, 2013 at 04:28 PM (#4621197)
Herb Score and Homer Bailey don't inspire pitching/run prevention confidence either.
   18. puck Posted: December 19, 2013 at 05:53 PM (#4621288)
How many years in a row could we go back in the archives and find a similar comment to #2 being made?

A lot, but for a few years there, they actually had a plan and it seemed to work. Sinkerball/groundball pitchers, good defenders. So the marginal pitchers would be guys like Marquis who had good groundball rates, and they lived with Barmes' bat so they could have his D at 2nd.

Then the pitching coach (Apodaca) resigned/was kicked upstairs, and you started hearing about getting pitchers with cutters, then relievers with "power arms", and guys started to get moved for perceived personality issues (Ianetta, Seth Smith, Fowler, and I guess Ian Stewart [they got that one]).
   19. Too Much Coffee Man Posted: December 19, 2013 at 06:50 PM (#4621329)
You could argue that they gave up very little in Herrera and Outman, and got a few players who have had flashes of non-suckitude (which implies the potential to do it again).
But, they also gave up a decent every CF for a few players who have had no flashes of non-suckitude, and the "rearranging deck chairs" metaphor comes to mind.
   20. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: December 19, 2013 at 08:16 PM (#4621367)
They have invested in old players for a win-now strategy

I'm hoping this win-now strategy convinces the owners that they need a winnow strategy about the front office.
   21. Walt Davis Posted: December 20, 2013 at 12:58 AM (#4621481)
As somebody pointed out somewhere, they got Brandon Barnes in the Fowler trade and Barnes, if he's anything at all, is Drew Stubbs. In the entire history of baseball, there has never been a team that needed two Drew Stubbses.
   22. God Posted: December 20, 2013 at 01:08 AM (#4621484)
I'm pretty sure the Longhorns would have won the College World Series that one year if they'd had two Drew Stubbses.
   23. extremism in defense of STIGGLES is no vice Posted: December 20, 2013 at 02:03 AM (#4621495)
if drew stubbs was actually as good as the people who continue to trade for him think he is, he'd be chris young.
   24. Squash Posted: December 20, 2013 at 02:37 AM (#4621498)
I thought they were going "all in" for 2014-15 until they traded Brett Anderson for bit parts.

The trade of Brett Anderson, who has pitched 83 1/3, 35, and 44 2/3 innings over the past three years, convinced you of a massive change in strategy?
   25. Walt Davis Posted: December 20, 2013 at 07:04 PM (#4621958)
I'm pretty sure the Longhorns would have won the College World Series that one year if they'd had two Drew Stubbses.

OK, the entire history of professional baseball.

OK, the entire history of openly professional baseball.
   26. PreservedFish Posted: December 20, 2013 at 10:24 PM (#4622019)
I thought they were going "all in" for 2014-15 until they traded Brett Anderson for bit parts.

This was the A's going all-in. That money went towards Kazmir or Johnson.

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Infinite Yost (Voxter)
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogOTP 20 Feb. 2017: Baseball in a Time of Politics
(1938 - 9:27pm, Feb 26)
Last: Like Flies On Sherbert

NewsblogBehind MLB chemistry: How teams try to sniff out ‘bad guys’ | New York Post
(15 - 9:19pm, Feb 26)
Last: ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick

NewsblogWhich spring training stats actually matter?
(1 - 9:12pm, Feb 26)
Last: Captain Supporter

NewsblogAZ Snakepit: If Zach Greinke were a Free Agent today, what would he get ?
(26 - 9:12pm, Feb 26)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogOT - December 2016 NBA thread
(2557 - 8:49pm, Feb 26)
Last: tshipman

NewsblogFull Count » Year after his career-changing meeting, Drew Pomeranz has no interest in returning to bullpen
(6 - 8:33pm, Feb 26)
Last: the Hugh Jorgan returns

NewsblogMets’ Duda, Who Had Back Trouble in 2016, Is Now Bothered by His Hips - The New York Times
(8 - 8:29pm, Feb 26)
Last: Adam Starblind

NewsblogHow to Fix Arbitration for Relievers | FanGraphs Baseball
(3 - 8:03pm, Feb 26)
Last: cardsfanboy

NewsblogPosnanski | A Baseball Challenge!
(64 - 8:02pm, Feb 26)
Last: zonk

NewsblogInside Baseball with Jon Heyman: Final offseason grades
(29 - 7:59pm, Feb 26)
Last: jacksone (AKA It's OK...)

Hall of Merit2018 Hall of Merit Ballot Discussion
(146 - 7:27pm, Feb 26)
Last: Bleed the Freak

NewsblogAngels figure to run more this season, just like Mike Scioscia likes it - The Orange County Register
(4 - 7:25pm, Feb 26)
Last: Los Angeles El Hombre de Anaheim

NewsblogRio Ruiz has dropped 30 pounds in 16 months, boosted his stock
(5 - 5:07pm, Feb 26)
Last: DCA

NewsblogOT: January 2016 Soccer Thread
(285 - 4:24pm, Feb 26)
Last: AuntBea

NewsblogWith Each Hit, Rockies’ D.J. LeMahieu Shows Cubs’ Epstein What He Gave Up On - The New York Times
(4 - 4:16pm, Feb 26)
Last: Walt Davis

Page rendered in 0.1865 seconds
47 querie(s) executed