I’m no rocket surgeon when it comes to baseball, but there seems to be a consensus among baseball fans who haven’t been lobotomized that Zack Greinke is pretty good at what he does. Some would say impressive. Most would probably just go ahead and say AL Cy Young winner. Jim Rice is having none of this:
Zack Greinke didn’t really impress me last night. He pitched well and maybe I caught him on a bad night, but to me he didn’t seem dominant. Greinke has may have the lowest ERA in the AL since Pedro Martinez in 2000, but he doesn’t strike me as the dominant force that Pedro was during his statistical peak.
Yes, he’s obviously accumulated these numbers with smoke and mirrors. That intangible “How Jim Rice Feels” column was somehow left out on Baseball Reference.
Don’t get me wrong, Greinke pitched very effectively but he was not the unhittable beast on the mound that Pedro or Clemens (or even Johan Santana) were during their reign of dominance. He only gave up two hits in 6 innings but struggled with his command and, with 5 strikeouts, it’s not like he was punching tickets up and down the Red Sox lineup.
Of course, I’ll see your five-strikeout game, Mr. Rice, and raise you five double-digit strikeout games thus far this season. Oh, and he’s third in the bigs in strikeouts on the season with 229. Couple that with just 47 walks and I’d say his command is just fine.
He reminds me of a right-handed Roger Moret. He has that long and lean frame but good speed on his fastball and sporadic command.
I humored Rice and looked up Moret. In his playing days, he was two inches taller and about 20 lbs. lighter than Greinke. At no point did Moret approach Greinke’s strikeout numbers from this season. In fact, his best year, 1974, he had 111 to go with 79 walks. Is that a K/BB ratio that looks anything like what Greinke is sporting this season?
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1. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 24, 2009 at 07:12 PM (#3331301)What this says about Greinke I don't understand - I mean, Whitey Ford and Juan Marichal were also not as dominant as Pedro or Clemens. What a couple of losers.
Edit: Missed the boat on that joke, I see. Four friggin' posts at 3:16 PM ?!
Since Pedro during his stastical peak was arguably the greatest pitcher of all time, Jim Rice is setting the bar for being "impressed" pretty high.
Edit: Or, what MCoA said in #4. The Coke's on me.
Martinez in his prime was just a different animal. Stuff wise he was just off the charts. I still can't figure out how he got that much screwball action on his circle change.
Impossible.
nahh. His tv personality can be like-able, if bland. I know someone who golfed with him recently, and he was likeable in that situation(and could drive the ball a mile).
Jim Rice fears nothing but mirrors, and those only because they can show reflections of him.
God, I hope so.
Greinke stuff is very good, but not utterly dominant - what makes him so good is that he commands the ball like he's playing a video game with an improperly tuned physics engine. Reminds very much of Saberhagen.
Except for the 25% that were bounced right to the SS.
He is a complete dud on NESN. Endlessly repeats banalities in a bored voice. In fact, I'd be surprised if any opinion he spouts is actually his own instead of something he heard once.
There's a reason it took forever for Rice to end up affiliated with the Sox again--it's because he's a moron.
In Philly, we get this from Gary Matthews except that Matthews has an excited voice that was made for mime.
Dude, you are the luckiest thing alive; you got into the HOF on some bizarre combo of red Sox love and guilt trip; now STFU and enjoy your gift.
What about Schilling?
Moron or not, he's been affiliated with the Red Sox organization, in one capacity or another, for all but the first three of his post-retirement seasons.
Oh right - wasn't he before Easler?
Don’t get me wrong, Rice hit very well but he was not the hitting beast at the plate that Bonds or Ruth (or even Joe Dimaggio) were during their reign of dominance. He slugged .502 with 398 home runs, but it’s not like he was drawing tons of walks or playing Gold Glove defense.
He reminds me of a right-handed Ryan Klesko. He has that burly physique but a powerful stroke and defensive limitations.
Slight correction, slider not curve.
Jim Rice is likable? Really?
I totally agree, but I have to say Jim Rice is about the last person who comes to mind there.
Repoz is like our bicameral god voice -- he posts and we react. We have no free will.
Maybe we've just seen Greinke in different games, but Zack's stuff seems pretty dominant. Fastball at 95-96 with great movement, knockout slider, excellent 12-6 curve. There's a developing change-up in there too. He's certainly better for being able to place every pitch in every part of the strikezone on any count, but his raw stuff seems top notch.
The corollary to that question is why anyone would care what Jim Rice's opinion of Zack Greinke is enough to spend the time to write an article about it. Was Dewey Evans busy? Could nobody contact Dave Winfield or Reggie Smith? No listing in the phone book for Brian Downing?
Who's the bigger fool the poster or the poster who posts about those posters?
(Or the poster who posts about the posters poster???)
Short and to the point. Nicely done.
Yeah. You're in the Hall. Let the next marginal candidate have his chance to say stupid stuff to the media.
is like the Boom Boom Mancini to the Duk Koo Kim of
Winner: Ryan Klesko comparison. Brutal. Deadly. Primey.
Zack Greinke didn’t really impress me last night. He pitched well and maybe I caught him on a bad night, but to me he didn’t seem dominant.
Now, I didn't see the game but I've seen lots of great pitchers pitch unimpressive games, even unimpressive games where they had good results.
Some enterprising snarker should go read the game reports and see what some of the Sox hitters had to say about the unimpressive Greinke that night, then post back here (but only if those comments show up Rice!) :-)
“Greinke has everything,” Red Sox manager Terry Francona said. “He has velocity. You look up and you see a fastball that’s 91 and then you see one that’s 97. Then you see a slider, maybe the best slider in the game. I was impressed with his stuff.”
"Red Sox designated hitter David Ortiz endorsed Greinke for the Cy Young."
"Red Sox slugger Jason Bay said Greinke has “Cy Young stuff."
That's two days in a row that Nasty Nate has quoted PJ. I heartily approve. What do you think of the new album?
Agreed.
It's almost refreshing to see someone dare to suggest that someone who had good results might not have actually played that well.
Actually he's technically quoting Victoria Williams, right?
You didn't ask me, but I dig most of Backspacer. Took a few listens to get my bearings with it, like pretty much every album they've released since Ten.
I’m no rocket surgeon when it comes to baseball . . .
I hesitate to being it up because it may be a regular Littman phrase, but did this make anyone else wince? Does Littman ever talk about being a brain scientist, too?
Just wondering . . .
My cousin ended up going to Big Papi's golf charity before the season began and he described everyone as being pretty great (he got to golf with Pedro, who was the greatest, everyone except for Jim Rice. He and a friend ended up in a minivan with Rice and Torii Hunter. Hunter was very friendly, but Rice seemed to have identify my cousin and his friend as members of he stathead community because, out of nowhere, he started going after them verbally. "Some people think they can use a computer and spreadsheet to understand the game, but we players know better" or some such crap. It was weird since my cousin doesn't give a crap about stats, but he said he suddenly felt like he was part of the Theo Posse. Anyway, you don't have to believe this story and it doesn't make Rice a bad guy in general. Maybe he was in a bad mood that day. Still, think it's interesting given the tension between BTF and Rice.
what was the other one?
haven't heard the new one yet. Probably buy it this weekend.
You quoted "Rats" yesterday, or maybe the day before.
Hmm, I don't get it. He quoted Crazy Mary. I remember a Victoria Williams song that had a few words in common with that line, but maybe I'm missing something.
You didn't ask me, but I dig most of Backspacer. Took a few listens to get my bearings with it, like pretty much every album they've released since Ten.
Hey, I'm glad you threw in your opinion; I was really asking everyone. I liked it, and also need a few more listens. It's only half an hour, so those listens should be quick.
I would be surprised if the tension was two-way.
ah, now I remember.
'crazy mary' wasnt written by PJ, but they were the first to release it.
Jim Rice is dumber than 10 Hall of Famers' dogs.
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