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1. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Moral IdiotCatfish Hunter pitched 3449 IP of 105 ERA+. His top 7 seasons by ERA+: 144-140-134-114-114-107-103
Hunter's teams had similar post-season success. Hunter was more dominant than Reynolds with a longer career and is usually thought of as being on or close to the in/out HoF border. Pass on Reynolds.
"BUT HE ONLY WON 18 OR MORE GAMES IN A SEASON 3 TIMES, MIKEY!!"
Edgardo Alfonzo.
But "Superchief" is a damn cool nickname...
Sure, quite a few. Dave Stieb, Jimmy Key, Tony Fernandez, Carlos Delgado, Tom Henke, John Olerud, Fred McGriff...
I find the compairson to Catfish Hunter pretty silly since Catfish was nowhere as versatile as Reynolds.
And how Reynolds gets ignored for his work in the 1952 Series continues to baffle me.
Oh, he lost a game. A game where he pitched seven solid innings of 5 hit, 3 run ball with several of the runs coming on cheap homers.
With the Yanks down 2-1 in the Series he shuts out the Dodgers on 3 hits, striking out 10. This when strikeouts were harder to come by.
Game 6 he relieves Raschi after Vic gives up a homer to Duke and a double to Shuba and gets the last four outs for a save in a 3-2 win making the Series even 3-3.
The very NEXT day he comes in the fourth with nobody out and the bases loaded and pitches 3 innings.
20 innings. 18 strikeouts. 12 hits allowed.
He had other moments. Plenty of them in fact. But that Series was his signature effort.
On my Mt Rushmore of big game pitchers he's there with Pedro and Sandy.
See, it never ends. Someone posted in another thread how Berra, et al, bragged to Rizzuto when he got selected "We got you in." So, let's say Reynolds gets in. And of course, Maris and Munson, and, when he's eligible, Guidry. Is that the end? No, They will then move on to Elston Howard, or Hank Bauer, or Tommy Henrich, and when those guys are in, Moose Skowron or Frank Crosetti.
Not to imply this is unique to the Yankees, but they do seem to get the most press. These "My guy should be in the HOF" arguments are just so tiresome. They are not based on anything other than "I want my guy to get in." I mean, look at this:
OK, fine. Let's not penalize him. Give him 18 more wins. Whoop-de-do. Since when is 200 wins a HOF hook? From 1901 to 1990, there are 28 pitchers with 200 or more wins who are not in the HOF.
As Sunnyday implies, there is probably a hundred guys more deserving than Reynolds. I mean, why Reynolds and not Billy Pierce? Because Reynolds has high profile guys lobbying for him and Pierce does not.
More importantly, when did Tommy in CT move to Oklahoma?
Just recognizing that he was one h*lluva pitcher, particularly when the circumstances were TENSE.
How about making some room for Bob Gibson and Dave Stewart? Dave Stewart is being forgotten, but, excluding his first WS and his last, he was money in the postseason.
Well, considering that Oklahoma was Reynolds' home state, occasional articles like this from Oklahoma newspapers shouldn't be all that surprising. This is what home state newspapers do.
----------------------------
See, it never ends. Someone posted in another thread how Berra, et al, bragged to Rizzuto when he got selected "We got you in." So, let's say Reynolds gets in. And of course, Maris and Munson, and, when he's eligible, Guidry. Is that the end? No, They will then move on to Elston Howard, or Hank Bauer, or Tommy Henrich, and when those guys are in, Moose Skowron or Frank Crosetti.
The only problem with that is that none of those guys are going to be selected in a million years, and you know it. And it's not as if Hall of Famers on other teams don't talk up their old and unqualified teammates, it's just that Repoz's pinata eye is focused on the team he secretly loves.
Harold Baines and Dave Stewart. Maybe BJ Surhoff.
Just recognizing that he was one h*lluva pitcher, particularly when the circumstances were TENSE.
He sure as hell was, although the irony is that until that first great World Series game of his (the 1-0 shutout against the Dodgers to open the 1949 Series), when he came to New York from Cleveland he'd been carrying a reputation as a "choker", often with references to his Indian blood.
Luis Tiant. Amos Otis. Rusty Staub. Bill Robinson. Willie Montanez. More recently, Jose Rijo.
No, and I said as much in my post. With Morgan and Bench, it was first Perez, and now Concepcion. Id Davy somehow gets in, I'm confidant they won't shut up, but will move on to Foster.
Jose CRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUZ
Good call!
Brian Downing. I don't think he should be in, but worse players have been elected by the BBWAA, and recently.
C'mon, look at that peak. Peaakk!!
I find articles that promote good but not dominant pitchers with unusual post-season success or singular moments for the HoF to be silly.
I also find articles that argue "so-and-so good player was the starting pitcher/second-baseman/left-fielder/whatever on X World Series winners therefore he is good enough to be a Hall of Famer" to be silly; they tend to be from the franchises with the most post-season success (like the Yankees) for a good reason.
Fred Carroll. Pete Browning. Arlie Latham.
Buck O'Neil and Luke Easter.
HOF voters have traditionally snubbed Billy Jo's
(anti Cajun bias)
He's certainly one of the "major figures in baseball" over a span of about a decade, and that is going to help him a lot in terms of writers' voting.
(If you mean he'll be kept out because of steroids, well, remains to be seen. I know that right now it seems like no one connected in any way with PED has any chance to reach 75%, but I highly doubt that state of affairs is going to last.)
Yes.
Also Lefty O'Doul (MLB career + PCL career + baseball ambassador-ness).
Couple of other PCL greats: Frank Shellenback and Buzz Arlett.
Bobo Newsom.
EDIT: OK, Ray Dandridge should be elected to the HOF again, because he was just that awesome.
Sure, quite a few. Dave Stieb, Jimmy Key, Tony Fernandez, Carlos Delgado, Tom Henke, John Olerud, Fred McGriff...
Delgado and McGriff actually have legitimate cases already. I'd vote for McGriff with no hesitation. Criminally underrated, and one of the best players in the game from 1988-1994. The 94 strike is the only thing keeping him from getting elected, as without it he would've topped 500 homers without steroid allegations.
My pick is Edgar Martinez, who as a DH and with his late start probably doesn't have enough career value to deserve enshrinement. But he was an awesome player and seemed like a nice guy and his numbers are close enough that I want to see him elected anyway, counting stats be damned.
You are in luck!
Jack Morris, Will Clark, Kirk Gibson, Chili Davis, Dave Parker, Frank White.
Gooden and Strawberry, kind of, too.
OK, Ray Dandridge should be elected to the HOF again, because he was just that awesome.
And Bob Dandridge is criminally underrated in basketball circles. What are the odds????
Albert Belle and Juan Gonzalez too. They didn't have the longevity to deserve even a sniff at the HOF, but they were scary hitters in their prime and really fun to watch. The aforementioned Nomar, too. Very rare for a shortstop to put up those kinds of numbers, even for a little while. Of all the burnouts of the last 20 years, he was the most disappointing to me.
Man, I miss the '90's/early 2000's. My favorite era of baseball ever...
It would have improved his chances, but he'd still have an uphill climb.
That's not allowed, sorry.
Why? I was born in 1979. Ain't nothing wrong with remembering the players of your teens most fondly. :)
The 94 strike is the only thing keeping him from getting elected, as without it he would've topped 500 homers without steroid allegations.
It would have improved his chances, but he'd still have an uphill climb.
Only cuz he had five of his best seasons during the modern deadball era of 1988-1992. People forget just how low offense was and don't realize how impressive McGriff's 35 homers, 100 rbi, and .285/.380/.530 line was every year. Ignoring these years is the same reason Will Clark was one and done on the ballot. He deserved better too.
Matt Williams, Jerry Koosman,
Dave Parker.
The HOF has been very good about electing Phillies, but if I had to pick one it would probably be Gavvy Cravath. Great half-career after age 30. And when you look at his stats from his twenties playing for the Minneapolis Millers and the Los Angeles Angels (see their 1904 roster here), it makes you confused. Was the competition in the PCL that much stronger than the NL in the 19-dickety-zeros?
Because STEROIDS.
Steroids have been around since the '70's, at least. I've never understood why everyone acts like they were exclusive to the '90's and early 2000's.
And they're here to stay, unfortunately. Sorry, but it's true. Might as well get used to it.
Well, his performance deserved better... All indications are that he was kind of a douche. Plus - he gets the same treatment all of the '84 Padres (except Tony Gwynn) and the 2003 Marlins (except D-Lee) get from me for the way he destroyed the Cubs in '89.
For active players who shouldn't rationally be in the HOF based on their reasonably extrapolated career: Jimmy Rollins.
Hey, Pudge Rodriguez and Miguel Cabrera are just plain cool...
And in a lot of other peoples books, raping the Cubs like he did in 1989 gets Clark bonus points, not demerits. :p
Married to Halle Berry...
I had a former co-worker named David Justice. But he was a pudgy white guy who got fired for pulling a knife on another employee during an argument. Not nearly as cool as his namesake was...
Three of mine are Andre Dawson (borderline), Bruce Sutter (doesn't belong) and Tony Perez (doesn't belong) -- who knew I had such influence?
The names that come to mind are mainly borderline guys, often under-rated: Reuschel, Wynn, Nettles, Bobby Bonds. I don't think any of them will ever make it through any vets committee but, other than Reuschel, they're hardly unknown borderline cases.
I guess I'll go with Cesar Cedeno who I still consider possibly the greatest player I've ever seen (1972-73).
And there's an alternate universe where somebody actually bothered to teach Shawon Dunston (and Shawon bothered to learn) how to play baseball and he's a combo of Ozzie Smith and Rickey Henderson.
Jaime Cocanower (best name ever)
Presumably Reynolds' teams have long been "inducted" into the Hall of Fame by winning the damn championship so many times. Wouldn't a real team player not care that much about personally being inducted?
It's hard to maintain that "team first" legacy when you're begging for an individual honor... or at least your teammates and family are begging for you...
Jim Edmonds too. (borderline candidate)
It's hard to maintain that "team first" legacy when you're begging for an individual honor... or at least your teammates and family are begging for you...
You don't "beg" to get into the HoF by talking to your grandchildren. And anyway, Reynolds has been dead for almost 17 years.
I know he's not finished yet, and still has a slim chance to make it and a slimmer chance to deserve it, but Paul Konerko.
No, but back before Baseball expanded west and the farm systems developed, the stronger "minor" leagues wee stronger relative to MLB than they are today- the PCL was likely not as string as the NL or AL, but was likely (to use today's systems as a reference) between AAA and MLB in overall average quality...
Without farm systems if an MLB team wanted someone from the PCL or the American Association or the International League, they had to pay that team (usually $, but you could trade player contracts)- and guess what a real good PCL/IL player may cost well more than his salary- so you could have someone who'd be a perfectly respectable MLB regular- bit instead stays in the PCL (as a star/minor star)- because his PCL owner wants more than any MLB wants to pay.
Buzz Arlett's Oakland Oaks were not a "farm" team, they were independent, they paid their own player salaries out of their own revenues- if an MLB club wanted Arlett- they had to offer Oakland enough $ to make it worth Oakland's while-
Eventually of course PCl and IL and AA owners "enslaved" themselves (to use Bill James term) to MLB- they agreed to a fixed fee in exchange for player contracts- if an MLB club came along and offered that fee for a PCL club's best player hey coughed him up- it was insane- but at a time of financial distress a majority of owners agreed and the PCL/IL's days as independent leagues were essentially gone, then came direct affiliation with specific MLB clubs- and the minor league teams no longer controlled their own rosters at all, the MLB club dictated who was signed and who palyed and where and how much.
this siteclaims Creek but I don't know how accurate it is
Me. But that ship has sailed, so I guess it's my kid now.
Ichiro Suzuki.
Frank Howard.
Do you mean '83 or did something happen in '81 too?
This.
I'm always amused when players who are about to be inducted say that even as a little kid they never dreamed of making the Hall of Fame. Sure, they pretended they were Major Leaguers and imagined winning championships but not the Hall of Fame. I always think they must not have had much of an imagination because I imagined it all the time.
Ichiro Suzuki.
Well, good news! In 10-12 years, you'll likely get your wish!
In '81 his dad was hit by a car and lingered near death for several weeks (maybe months, IDRE) before succumbing. During this sad time, Burns would fly home to Alabama to be with his dad. When his turn in the rotation would come, he would fly to where the game was, pitch, then fly back to Alabama. And he was great.
There's been a bunch, mostly little guys, the Brian Roberts type,, guys who I just love to watch play the game. Here's a few
Nettles,for his defense, though he's pretty close to the hall.
Amos Otis
Joe Rudi
Jack Clark
Beltre-Because he's so much fun
Tiant-A joy to watch pitch
Delgado. He was probably only two injury-free seasons away. (Keith Hernandez doesn't count, because he SHOULD be in.)
C'mon, Mo was fat, but no need to get insulting.
Anybody else have a guy they know, rationally, shouldn't be in the HOF but you want them in there anyway?
- kevin bass
and brad ausmus
of course they are famous for stats youse don't care nothin about....
Freddie Patek and Joel Youngblood
When I ever imagined the career of a baseball player, it tended to end with the end of his career. Who cared about the HOF? I didn't imagine the five year wait either, or the slow dissipation. Even I had better things to do.
and brad ausmus
...................
Meatwad is on team keefe Posted: November 19, 2011 at 12:09 AM (#3997069)
Bbc does that mean pat the bat makes your hall?
...........
ok, this is getting awkward....
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