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Friday, November 18, 2011

Tulsa World: Allie Reynolds deserves to be in the Baseball Hall of Fame

Maybe if he had more Wins and less Saverins!

If I had a vote, Reynolds would be my No. 1 selection. He should have been in the Hall of Fame a long time ago.

Reynolds was dominant in a relatively short career from 1942-54. He helped the Yankees win six World Series in his nine seasons with them. Reynolds had a 182-107 career record and sacrificed a chance for more wins by willing to be used as a reliever to help the Yankees win world titles.

...I had a chance to speak recently to his granddaughter, Stacey Reynolds-Peterson, who said, “My grandfather was a man of few words and we didn’t talk much about his baseball career. But I heard him say, `I have never asked for much, but I want more than anything to be inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame.’

“I think people need to be reminded that Allie thought of the team first before he thought of himself or his career.”

And he should not be penalized for that attitude that kept him from reaching 200 career wins. His Hall of Fame batterymate, Yogi Berra, has recently made a Hall of Fame pitch on Facebook for Reynolds.

 

Repoz Posted: November 18, 2011 at 10:46 AM | 94 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: hall of fame, history, indians, sabermetrics, yankees

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   1. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 18, 2011 at 11:52 AM (#3996334)
There should be a way of inducting Reynolds / Raschi / Lopat as an entry. Individually they're just HoVG, but collectively they helped the Yankees accomplish more in five years (1949-53) than any team in baseball history. Far more than any position player, they were the heart of that unmatched championship run.
   2. sunnyday2 Posted: November 18, 2011 at 12:31 PM (#3996337)
I got 100 pitchers lined up AHEAD of him.
   3. bobm Posted: November 18, 2011 at 12:40 PM (#3996340)
Allie Reynolds pitched 2492 IP of 110 ERA+. His top 7 seasons by ERA+: 162-126-115-110-109-108-105

Catfish Hunter pitched 3449 IP of 105 ERA+. His top 7 seasons by ERA+: 144-140-134-114-114-107-103

Hunter's teams had similar post-season success. Hunter was more dominant than Reynolds with a longer career and is usually thought of as being on or close to the in/out HoF border. Pass on Reynolds.
   4. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: November 18, 2011 at 12:47 PM (#3996342)
Anybody else have a guy they know, rationally, shouldn't be in the HOF but you want them in there anyway? For me it's Dwayne Murphy.
   5. Repoz Posted: November 18, 2011 at 12:48 PM (#3996343)
Old Mad-Dog Russo moment...

"BUT HE ONLY WON 18 OR MORE GAMES IN A SEASON 3 TIMES, MIKEY!!"
   6. AJMcCringleberry Posted: November 18, 2011 at 01:00 PM (#3996349)
Anybody else have a guy they know, rationally, shouldn't be in the HOF but you want them in there anyway?

Edgardo Alfonzo.
   7. RMc Has Bizarre Ideas to Fix Baseball Posted: November 18, 2011 at 01:01 PM (#3996350)
I'll repeat what I said in the previous 'Reynolds for the HOF' thread: "Why don't we just induct the entire Yankees franchise and be done with it?"

But "Superchief" is a damn cool nickname...
   8. Rants Mulliniks Posted: November 18, 2011 at 01:01 PM (#3996351)
Yeah, that's quite the sparkling 1.13/1 K/BB ratio he has there. If Jake Peavy got hit by a bus tomorrow, he'd be more deserving of the HOF than Reynolds. If we're handing out retroactive AS appearances, he deserves maybe three, and only has one CY-worthy season.
   9. Matthew E Posted: November 18, 2011 at 01:26 PM (#3996359)
Anybody else have a guy they know, rationally, shouldn't be in the HOF but you want them in there anyway? For me it's Dwayne Murphy.


Sure, quite a few. Dave Stieb, Jimmy Key, Tony Fernandez, Carlos Delgado, Tom Henke, John Olerud, Fred McGriff...
   10. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: November 18, 2011 at 01:43 PM (#3996365)
Allie Reynolds was the best pitcher I ever saw when the chips were down.

I find the compairson to Catfish Hunter pretty silly since Catfish was nowhere as versatile as Reynolds.

And how Reynolds gets ignored for his work in the 1952 Series continues to baffle me.

Oh, he lost a game. A game where he pitched seven solid innings of 5 hit, 3 run ball with several of the runs coming on cheap homers.

With the Yanks down 2-1 in the Series he shuts out the Dodgers on 3 hits, striking out 10. This when strikeouts were harder to come by.

Game 6 he relieves Raschi after Vic gives up a homer to Duke and a double to Shuba and gets the last four outs for a save in a 3-2 win making the Series even 3-3.

The very NEXT day he comes in the fourth with nobody out and the bases loaded and pitches 3 innings.

20 innings. 18 strikeouts. 12 hits allowed.

He had other moments. Plenty of them in fact. But that Series was his signature effort.

On my Mt Rushmore of big game pitchers he's there with Pedro and Sandy.
   11. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 18, 2011 at 01:48 PM (#3996369)
His Hall of Fame batterymate, Yogi Berra, has recently made a Hall of Fame pitch on Facebook for Reynolds.

I'll repeat what I said in the previous 'Reynolds for the HOF' thread: "Why don't we just induct the entire Yankees franchise and be done with it?"


See, it never ends. Someone posted in another thread how Berra, et al, bragged to Rizzuto when he got selected "We got you in." So, let's say Reynolds gets in. And of course, Maris and Munson, and, when he's eligible, Guidry. Is that the end? No, They will then move on to Elston Howard, or Hank Bauer, or Tommy Henrich, and when those guys are in, Moose Skowron or Frank Crosetti.

Not to imply this is unique to the Yankees, but they do seem to get the most press. These "My guy should be in the HOF" arguments are just so tiresome. They are not based on anything other than "I want my guy to get in." I mean, look at this:

Reynolds had a 182-107 career record and sacrificed a chance for more wins by willing to be used as a reliever to help the Yankees win world titles...he should not be penalized for that attitude that kept him from reaching 200 career wins.


OK, fine. Let's not penalize him. Give him 18 more wins. Whoop-de-do. Since when is 200 wins a HOF hook? From 1901 to 1990, there are 28 pitchers with 200 or more wins who are not in the HOF.

As Sunnyday implies, there is probably a hundred guys more deserving than Reynolds. I mean, why Reynolds and not Billy Pierce? Because Reynolds has high profile guys lobbying for him and Pierce does not.
   12. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: November 18, 2011 at 01:56 PM (#3996375)
When did Yogi Berra get on Facebook?

More importantly, when did Tommy in CT move to Oklahoma?
   13. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: November 18, 2011 at 02:04 PM (#3996383)
By the way, posters please note I am not advocating Allie for the HOF.

Just recognizing that he was one h*lluva pitcher, particularly when the circumstances were TENSE.
   14. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: November 18, 2011 at 02:05 PM (#3996384)
On my Mt Rushmore of big game pitchers he's there with Pedro and Sandy.

How about making some room for Bob Gibson and Dave Stewart? Dave Stewart is being forgotten, but, excluding his first WS and his last, he was money in the postseason.
   15. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 18, 2011 at 02:09 PM (#3996386)
More importantly, when did Tommy in CT move to Oklahoma?

Well, considering that Oklahoma was Reynolds' home state, occasional articles like this from Oklahoma newspapers shouldn't be all that surprising. This is what home state newspapers do.

----------------------------

See, it never ends. Someone posted in another thread how Berra, et al, bragged to Rizzuto when he got selected "We got you in." So, let's say Reynolds gets in. And of course, Maris and Munson, and, when he's eligible, Guidry. Is that the end? No, They will then move on to Elston Howard, or Hank Bauer, or Tommy Henrich, and when those guys are in, Moose Skowron or Frank Crosetti.

The only problem with that is that none of those guys are going to be selected in a million years, and you know it. And it's not as if Hall of Famers on other teams don't talk up their old and unqualified teammates, it's just that Repoz's pinata eye is focused on the team he secretly loves.
   16. Bourbon Samurai, what price fettucine? Posted: November 18, 2011 at 02:12 PM (#3996387)
Anybody else have a guy they know, rationally, shouldn't be in the HOF but you want them in there anyway?


Harold Baines and Dave Stewart. Maybe BJ Surhoff.
   17. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 18, 2011 at 02:13 PM (#3996388)
By the way, posters please note I am not advocating Allie for the HOF.

Just recognizing that he was one h*lluva pitcher, particularly when the circumstances were TENSE.


He sure as hell was, although the irony is that until that first great World Series game of his (the 1-0 shutout against the Dodgers to open the 1949 Series), when he came to New York from Cleveland he'd been carrying a reputation as a "choker", often with references to his Indian blood.
   18. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: November 18, 2011 at 02:31 PM (#3996400)
Anybody else have a guy they know, rationally, shouldn't be in the HOF but you want them in there anyway?


Luis Tiant. Amos Otis. Rusty Staub. Bill Robinson. Willie Montanez. More recently, Jose Rijo.
   19. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 18, 2011 at 02:42 PM (#3996405)
And it's not as if Hall of Famers on other teams don't talk up their old and unqualified teammates, it's just that Repoz's pinata eye is focused on the team he secretly loves.


No, and I said as much in my post. With Morgan and Bench, it was first Perez, and now Concepcion. Id Davy somehow gets in, I'm confidant they won't shut up, but will move on to Foster.
   20. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: November 18, 2011 at 02:44 PM (#3996406)
Anybody else have a guy they know, rationally, shouldn't be in the HOF but you want them in there anyway?

Jose CRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUZ
   21. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: November 18, 2011 at 02:46 PM (#3996407)
Jose CRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUZ

Good call!
   22. Rally Posted: November 18, 2011 at 02:48 PM (#3996408)
Anybody else have a guy they know, rationally, shouldn't be in the HOF but you want them in there anyway?


Brian Downing. I don't think he should be in, but worse players have been elected by the BBWAA, and recently.
   23. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: November 18, 2011 at 02:55 PM (#3996416)
Nomar Garciaparra.

C'mon, look at that peak. Peaakk!!
   24. Chris Fluit Posted: November 18, 2011 at 03:23 PM (#3996449)
Jack Morris. I know the ERA isn't there, but I always thought of him as a Hall of Famer when he was playing (and I was a kid) and I guess I always will.
   25. Bruce Markusen Posted: November 18, 2011 at 03:24 PM (#3996451)
My guy would be Bobby Murcer, definitely not a Hall of Famer but a fine player who had some monster years in the early 1970s. He was hurt by the move to Shea Stadium, which caused him to be traded to San Francisco, where he hated that ballpark, too.
   26. bobm Posted: November 18, 2011 at 03:28 PM (#3996455)
I find the compairson to Catfish Hunter pretty silly since Catfish was nowhere as versatile as Reynolds.

I find articles that promote good but not dominant pitchers with unusual post-season success or singular moments for the HoF to be silly.

I also find articles that argue "so-and-so good player was the starting pitcher/second-baseman/left-fielder/whatever on X World Series winners therefore he is good enough to be a Hall of Famer" to be silly; they tend to be from the franchises with the most post-season success (like the Yankees) for a good reason.
   27. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: November 18, 2011 at 03:30 PM (#3996458)
Anybody else have a guy they know, rationally, shouldn't be in the HOF but you want them in there anyway?


Fred Carroll. Pete Browning. Arlie Latham.

Buck O'Neil and Luke Easter.
   28. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: November 18, 2011 at 03:33 PM (#3996463)
I think we can all agree on Moe Berg, too, right?
   29. The Long Arm of Rudy Law Posted: November 18, 2011 at 03:42 PM (#3996477)
Billy Jo Robidoux
   30. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: November 18, 2011 at 03:44 PM (#3996481)
David Ortiz is #1 on my "I wish he were a HoF but he's really not qualified" list.
   31. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: November 18, 2011 at 03:52 PM (#3996486)
Billy Jo Robidoux

HOF voters have traditionally snubbed Billy Jo's
(anti Cajun bias)
   32. JustDan Posted: November 18, 2011 at 03:52 PM (#3996487)
César Cedeño
   33. The District Attorney Posted: November 18, 2011 at 03:59 PM (#3996494)
David Ortiz is #1 on my "I wish he were a HoF but he's really not qualified" list.
This is far from impossible. He needs a couple more big seasons... but hey, he's not ancient at 36 and he was 4th in the league in OPS last year, so why not?

He's certainly one of the "major figures in baseball" over a span of about a decade, and that is going to help him a lot in terms of writers' voting.

(If you mean he'll be kept out because of steroids, well, remains to be seen. I know that right now it seems like no one connected in any way with PED has any chance to reach 75%, but I highly doubt that state of affairs is going to last.)
   34. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: November 18, 2011 at 04:02 PM (#3996496)
I think we can all agree on Moe Berg, too, right?

Yes.
Also Lefty O'Doul (MLB career + PCL career + baseball ambassador-ness).
Couple of other PCL greats: Frank Shellenback and Buzz Arlett.
Bobo Newsom.

EDIT: OK, Ray Dandridge should be elected to the HOF again, because he was just that awesome.
   35. Booey Posted: November 18, 2011 at 04:02 PM (#3996497)
Anybody else have a guy they know, rationally, shouldn't be in the HOF but you want them in there anyway? For me it's Dwayne Murphy.

Sure, quite a few. Dave Stieb, Jimmy Key, Tony Fernandez, Carlos Delgado, Tom Henke, John Olerud, Fred McGriff...


Delgado and McGriff actually have legitimate cases already. I'd vote for McGriff with no hesitation. Criminally underrated, and one of the best players in the game from 1988-1994. The 94 strike is the only thing keeping him from getting elected, as without it he would've topped 500 homers without steroid allegations.

My pick is Edgar Martinez, who as a DH and with his late start probably doesn't have enough career value to deserve enshrinement. But he was an awesome player and seemed like a nice guy and his numbers are close enough that I want to see him elected anyway, counting stats be damned.
   36. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: November 18, 2011 at 04:04 PM (#3996499)
Ray Dandridge.

You are in luck!
   37. The District Attorney Posted: November 18, 2011 at 04:09 PM (#3996505)
Man, I wish they'd put Gary Carter in.
   38. . Posted: November 18, 2011 at 04:10 PM (#3996507)
Anybody else have a guy they know, rationally, shouldn't be in the HOF but you want them in there anyway?

Jack Morris, Will Clark, Kirk Gibson, Chili Davis, Dave Parker, Frank White.

Gooden and Strawberry, kind of, too.

OK, Ray Dandridge should be elected to the HOF again, because he was just that awesome.

And Bob Dandridge is criminally underrated in basketball circles. What are the odds????
   39. Benji Gil Gamesh VII - The Opt-Out Awakens Posted: November 18, 2011 at 04:11 PM (#3996511)
David Ortiz and Dwight Evans.
   40. Steve N Posted: November 18, 2011 at 04:11 PM (#3996513)
Reggie Smith. I also have a fondness for Harold Baines.
   41. Spahn Insane Posted: November 18, 2011 at 04:15 PM (#3996515)
I'm sick and tired of guys like Albert Belle not being in the HOF.
   42. Booey Posted: November 18, 2011 at 04:15 PM (#3996516)
Anybody else have a guy they know, rationally, shouldn't be in the HOF but you want them in there anyway?

Albert Belle and Juan Gonzalez too. They didn't have the longevity to deserve even a sniff at the HOF, but they were scary hitters in their prime and really fun to watch. The aforementioned Nomar, too. Very rare for a shortstop to put up those kinds of numbers, even for a little while. Of all the burnouts of the last 20 years, he was the most disappointing to me.

Man, I miss the '90's/early 2000's. My favorite era of baseball ever...
   43. The District Attorney Posted: November 18, 2011 at 04:23 PM (#3996525)
Man, I miss the '90's/early 2000's. My favorite era of baseball ever...
That's not allowed, sorry.
   44. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: November 18, 2011 at 04:24 PM (#3996527)
The 94 strike is the only thing keeping him from getting elected, as without it he would've topped 500 homers without steroid allegations.


It would have improved his chances, but he'd still have an uphill climb.
   45. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: November 18, 2011 at 04:32 PM (#3996537)
Ron Cey would be mine, maybe Rick Sutcliffe until he started broadcasting.
   46. Swoboda is freedom Posted: November 18, 2011 at 04:33 PM (#3996538)
Jon Matlack and Jerry Koosman.
   47. Spahn Insane Posted: November 18, 2011 at 04:33 PM (#3996539)
Lee Smith for me.
   48. Booey Posted: November 18, 2011 at 04:41 PM (#3996547)
Man, I miss the '90's/early 2000's. My favorite era of baseball ever...
That's not allowed, sorry.


Why? I was born in 1979. Ain't nothing wrong with remembering the players of your teens most fondly. :)

The 94 strike is the only thing keeping him from getting elected, as without it he would've topped 500 homers without steroid allegations.


It would have improved his chances, but he'd still have an uphill climb.


Only cuz he had five of his best seasons during the modern deadball era of 1988-1992. People forget just how low offense was and don't realize how impressive McGriff's 35 homers, 100 rbi, and .285/.380/.530 line was every year. Ignoring these years is the same reason Will Clark was one and done on the ballot. He deserved better too.
   49. shoewizard Posted: November 18, 2011 at 04:44 PM (#3996552)
Anybody else have a guy they know, rationally, shouldn't be in the HOF but you want them in there anyway?


Matt Williams, Jerry Koosman,
   50. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: November 18, 2011 at 04:46 PM (#3996554)
Anybody else have a guy they know, rationally, shouldn't be in the HOF but you want them in there anyway? For me it's Dwayne Murphy.

Dave Parker.

The HOF has been very good about electing Phillies, but if I had to pick one it would probably be Gavvy Cravath. Great half-career after age 30. And when you look at his stats from his twenties playing for the Minneapolis Millers and the Los Angeles Angels (see their 1904 roster here), it makes you confused. Was the competition in the PCL that much stronger than the NL in the 19-dickety-zeros?
   51. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: November 18, 2011 at 04:48 PM (#3996558)
Harold Baines and Pat Moran.
   52. The District Attorney Posted: November 18, 2011 at 04:50 PM (#3996562)
Why?
Because STEROIDS.
   53. Spahn Insane Posted: November 18, 2011 at 04:55 PM (#3996571)
Oh, and Wildfire Schulte. Because his name rocks.
   54. Booey Posted: November 18, 2011 at 04:59 PM (#3996576)
Why?
Because STEROIDS.


Steroids have been around since the '70's, at least. I've never understood why everyone acts like they were exclusive to the '90's and early 2000's.

And they're here to stay, unfortunately. Sorry, but it's true. Might as well get used to it.
   55. The District Attorney Posted: November 18, 2011 at 05:03 PM (#3996584)
Oh, maybe you're right. I'm just so confused. If only Mike Lupica would tell me what to think.
   56. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: November 18, 2011 at 05:08 PM (#3996591)
Ignoring these years is the same reason Will Clark was one and done on the ballot. He deserved better too.


Well, his performance deserved better... All indications are that he was kind of a douche. Plus - he gets the same treatment all of the '84 Padres (except Tony Gwynn) and the 2003 Marlins (except D-Lee) get from me for the way he destroyed the Cubs in '89.
   57. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: November 18, 2011 at 05:16 PM (#3996604)
Dave Justice. Cool name, beautiful swing, ROY award, a signature moment (1995 Game 6), played on some great teams.
   58. PhillyBooster Posted: November 18, 2011 at 05:19 PM (#3996608)
Bobby Bonds. Ken Singleton. Edgar Martinez.

For active players who shouldn't rationally be in the HOF based on their reasonably extrapolated career: Jimmy Rollins.
   59. Booey Posted: November 18, 2011 at 05:20 PM (#3996609)
Well, his performance deserved better... All indications are that he was kind of a douche. Plus - he gets the same treatment all of the '84 Padres (except Tony Gwynn) and the 2003 Marlins (except D-Lee) get from me for the way he destroyed the Cubs in '89.

Hey, Pudge Rodriguez and Miguel Cabrera are just plain cool...

And in a lot of other peoples books, raping the Cubs like he did in 1989 gets Clark bonus points, not demerits. :p
   60. Booey Posted: November 18, 2011 at 05:23 PM (#3996613)
Dave Justice. Cool name, beautiful swing, ROY award, a signature moment (1995 Game 6), played on some great teams.

Married to Halle Berry...

I had a former co-worker named David Justice. But he was a pudgy white guy who got fired for pulling a knife on another employee during an argument. Not nearly as cool as his namesake was...
   61. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: November 18, 2011 at 05:32 PM (#3996623)
   62. Walt Davis Posted: November 18, 2011 at 05:57 PM (#3996645)
Anybody else have a guy they know, rationally, shouldn't be in the HOF but you want them in there anyway?

Three of mine are Andre Dawson (borderline), Bruce Sutter (doesn't belong) and Tony Perez (doesn't belong) -- who knew I had such influence?

The names that come to mind are mainly borderline guys, often under-rated: Reuschel, Wynn, Nettles, Bobby Bonds. I don't think any of them will ever make it through any vets committee but, other than Reuschel, they're hardly unknown borderline cases.

I guess I'll go with Cesar Cedeno who I still consider possibly the greatest player I've ever seen (1972-73).

And there's an alternate universe where somebody actually bothered to teach Shawon Dunston (and Shawon bothered to learn) how to play baseball and he's a combo of Ozzie Smith and Rickey Henderson.
   63. Bob Evans Posted: November 18, 2011 at 06:59 PM (#3996692)
Britt Burns (heartbreakingly gutty in '81)
Jaime Cocanower (best name ever)
   64. spycake Posted: November 18, 2011 at 07:07 PM (#3996700)
“My grandfather was a man of few words and we didn’t talk much about his baseball career. But I heard him say, `I have never asked for much, but I want more than anything to be inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame.’

“I think people need to be reminded that Allie thought of the team first before he thought of himself or his career.”


Presumably Reynolds' teams have long been "inducted" into the Hall of Fame by winning the damn championship so many times. Wouldn't a real team player not care that much about personally being inducted?

It's hard to maintain that "team first" legacy when you're begging for an individual honor... or at least your teammates and family are begging for you...
   65. Esmailyn Gonzalez Sr. Posted: November 18, 2011 at 07:17 PM (#3996712)
Scott Rolen. Doubt he'll get in, but I'd vote for him.
Jim Edmonds too. (borderline candidate)
   66. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 18, 2011 at 07:18 PM (#3996713)
Presumably Reynolds' teams have long been "inducted" into the Hall of Fame by winning the damn championship so many times. Wouldn't a real team player not care that much about personally being inducted?

It's hard to maintain that "team first" legacy when you're begging for an individual honor... or at least your teammates and family are begging for you...


You don't "beg" to get into the HoF by talking to your grandchildren. And anyway, Reynolds has been dead for almost 17 years.
   67. RMc Has Bizarre Ideas to Fix Baseball Posted: November 18, 2011 at 07:22 PM (#3996720)
I'd love to live in a universe where Toe Nash is a HOFer. You know there'd be flying cars there.
   68. Palm Beach Pollworker Posted: November 18, 2011 at 08:01 PM (#3996750)
Mickey Lolich, Rusty Staub.
   69. Lest we forget Posted: November 18, 2011 at 08:06 PM (#3996753)
Jake Daubert
   70. The Non-Catching Molina (sjs1959) Posted: November 18, 2011 at 08:12 PM (#3996756)
Roger Maris, Jack Morris
   71. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 18, 2011 at 08:26 PM (#3996765)
Anybody else have a guy they know, rationally, shouldn't be in the HOF but you want them in there anyway?


I know he's not finished yet, and still has a slim chance to make it and a slimmer chance to deserve it, but Paul Konerko.
   72. Charlie O Posted: November 18, 2011 at 08:49 PM (#3996780)
Bud Harrelson and Sal Bando.
   73. Bourbon Samurai, what price fettucine? Posted: November 18, 2011 at 09:06 PM (#3996792)
Youppi!
   74. The Long Arm of Rudy Law Posted: November 18, 2011 at 09:15 PM (#3996801)
George Scott and John Mayberry
   75. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: November 18, 2011 at 09:20 PM (#3996808)
The HOF has been very good about electing Phillies, but if I had to pick one it would probably be Gavvy Cravath. Great half-career after age 30. And when you look at his stats from his twenties playing for the Minneapolis Millers and the Los Angeles Angels (see their 1904 roster here), it makes you confused. Was the competition in the PCL that much stronger than the NL in the 19-dickety-zeros?


No, but back before Baseball expanded west and the farm systems developed, the stronger "minor" leagues wee stronger relative to MLB than they are today- the PCL was likely not as string as the NL or AL, but was likely (to use today's systems as a reference) between AAA and MLB in overall average quality...

Without farm systems if an MLB team wanted someone from the PCL or the American Association or the International League, they had to pay that team (usually $, but you could trade player contracts)- and guess what a real good PCL/IL player may cost well more than his salary- so you could have someone who'd be a perfectly respectable MLB regular- bit instead stays in the PCL (as a star/minor star)- because his PCL owner wants more than any MLB wants to pay.

Buzz Arlett's Oakland Oaks were not a "farm" team, they were independent, they paid their own player salaries out of their own revenues- if an MLB club wanted Arlett- they had to offer Oakland enough $ to make it worth Oakland's while-

Eventually of course PCl and IL and AA owners "enslaved" themselves (to use Bill James term) to MLB- they agreed to a fixed fee in exchange for player contracts- if an MLB club came along and offered that fee for a PCL club's best player hey coughed him up- it was insane- but at a time of financial distress a majority of owners agreed and the PCL/IL's days as independent leagues were essentially gone, then came direct affiliation with specific MLB clubs- and the minor league teams no longer controlled their own rosters at all, the MLB club dictated who was signed and who palyed and where and how much.
   76. OCF Posted: November 18, 2011 at 09:24 PM (#3996809)
I had to look just because the Tulsa World was the morning paper of my childhood. Haven't thought about that paper in a long time. If you split Oklahoma into the "Tulsa part" and the "Oklahoma City part" (which is something similar to the the circa 1900 division between Indian Territory and Oklahoma Territory), then Reynolds was actually born in the OKC part. I suppose we could think about his place in teams of (1) Indian baseball players, or (2) Oklahoma players, or (3) the intersection of the two, Indians from Oklahoma. The biggest star on team (3) is probably Bob Johnson, but there would be a place for Reynolds. (Whether Reynolds was Cherokee or Creek doesn't seem entirely clear, and his birthplace doesn't clarify that.)
   77. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: November 18, 2011 at 09:43 PM (#3996819)
(Whether Reynolds was Cherokee or Creek doesn't seem entirely clear, and his birthplace doesn't clarify that.)

this siteclaims Creek but I don't know how accurate it is
   78. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: November 18, 2011 at 09:55 PM (#3996832)
Anybody else have a guy they know, rationally, shouldn't be in the HOF but you want them in there anyway?


Me. But that ship has sailed, so I guess it's my kid now.
   79. DJ Endless Grudge Is Lucky, Good And Ruthless Posted: November 18, 2011 at 09:56 PM (#3996833)
Anybody else have a guy they know, rationally, shouldn't be in the HOF but you want them in there anyway?


Ichiro Suzuki.
   80. Coot Veal and Cot Deal taste like Old Bay Posted: November 18, 2011 at 10:06 PM (#3996843)
Anybody else have a guy they know, rationally, shouldn't be in the HOF but you want them in there anyway?


Frank Howard.
   81. The Long Arm of Rudy Law Posted: November 18, 2011 at 10:06 PM (#3996844)
Britt Burns (heartbreakingly gutty in '81)


Do you mean '83 or did something happen in '81 too?
   82. Chris Fluit Posted: November 18, 2011 at 10:18 PM (#3996851)
Me. But that ship has sailed, so I guess it's my kid now.


This.

I'm always amused when players who are about to be inducted say that even as a little kid they never dreamed of making the Hall of Fame. Sure, they pretended they were Major Leaguers and imagined winning championships but not the Hall of Fame. I always think they must not have had much of an imagination because I imagined it all the time.
   83. . Posted: November 18, 2011 at 10:23 PM (#3996854)
Gorman Thomas.
   84. Booey Posted: November 19, 2011 at 12:45 AM (#3996929)
Anybody else have a guy they know, rationally, shouldn't be in the HOF but you want them in there anyway?


Ichiro Suzuki.



Well, good news! In 10-12 years, you'll likely get your wish!
   85. Bob Evans Posted: November 19, 2011 at 02:25 AM (#3996958)
Do you mean '83 or did something happen in '81 too?

In '81 his dad was hit by a car and lingered near death for several weeks (maybe months, IDRE) before succumbing. During this sad time, Burns would fly home to Alabama to be with his dad. When his turn in the rotation would come, he would fly to where the game was, pitch, then fly back to Alabama. And he was great.
   86. toratoratora Posted: November 19, 2011 at 03:06 AM (#3996986)
Anybody else have a guy they know, rationally, shouldn't be in the HOF but you want them in there anyway


There's been a bunch, mostly little guys, the Brian Roberts type,, guys who I just love to watch play the game. Here's a few

Nettles,for his defense, though he's pretty close to the hall.
Amos Otis
Joe Rudi
Jack Clark
Beltre-Because he's so much fun
Tiant-A joy to watch pitch
   87. Lassus Posted: November 19, 2011 at 03:28 AM (#3997001)
Anybody else have a guy they know, rationally, shouldn't be in the HOF but you want them in there anyway? For me it's Dwayne Murphy.

Delgado. He was probably only two injury-free seasons away. (Keith Hernandez doesn't count, because he SHOULD be in.)
   88. McCoy Posted: November 19, 2011 at 03:36 AM (#3997006)
Hippo Vaughn
   89. Honkie Kong Posted: November 19, 2011 at 03:54 AM (#3997011)
Andruw Jones
   90. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 19, 2011 at 04:00 AM (#3997015)
Hippo Vaughn

C'mon, Mo was fat, but no need to get insulting.
   91. base ball chick Posted: November 19, 2011 at 04:38 AM (#3997036)
Shooty grows weary of your Backpfeifengesicht Posted: November 18, 2011 at 07:47 AM (#3996342)

Anybody else have a guy they know, rationally, shouldn't be in the HOF but you want them in there anyway?


- kevin bass
and brad ausmus

of course they are famous for stats youse don't care nothin about....
   92. The Most Interesting Man In The World Posted: November 19, 2011 at 04:52 AM (#3997056)
Anybody else have a guy they know, rationally, shouldn't be in the HOF but you want them in there anyway?

Freddie Patek and Joel Youngblood
   93. Meatwad Posted: November 19, 2011 at 05:09 AM (#3997069)
Bbc does that mean pat the bat makes your hall?
   94. Jay Z Posted: November 19, 2011 at 06:08 AM (#3997090)
I'm always amused when players who are about to be inducted say that even as a little kid they never dreamed of making the Hall of Fame. Sure, they pretended they were Major Leaguers and imagined winning championships but not the Hall of Fame. I always think they must not have had much of an imagination because I imagined it all the time.


When I ever imagined the career of a baseball player, it tended to end with the end of his career. Who cared about the HOF? I didn't imagine the five year wait either, or the slow dissipation. Even I had better things to do.
   95. Howie Menckel Posted: November 19, 2011 at 06:34 AM (#3997092)
bbc is prejudice bout men Posted: November 18, 2011 at 11:38 PM (#3997036)

and brad ausmus

...................

Meatwad is on team keefe Posted: November 19, 2011 at 12:09 AM (#3997069)

Bbc does that mean pat the bat makes your hall?

...........

ok, this is getting awkward....

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