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Sunday, March 02, 2008

Turnbow:  Asset or liability?

A fairly balanced article though short on pointing to easily available numbers that confirm what is referenced in the article.  Basically, you know by the end of the first batter’s plate appearance whether Turnbow is going to have a successful outcome.  Turnbow’s control evaporates into dust after 15 pitches which is why the teams with batters who can follow a plan do the same thing:  wait.  Turnbow’s outings against St. Louis have been particularly infamous as last I checked Derrick was averaging a walk an inning against the Cards who as a group will just stand at home plate with their bat on the shoulder until they get two strikes.  It’s obvious what is happening and yet nobody on the Brewer coaching staff can coach or convince Turnbow to just throw one down the middle.  Part of that is the fact that Turnbow never really knows where his pitches are going.  But still, one would like to think that SOMEBODY other than a cranky old b*stard watching on TV would notice the Cardinals gameplan.

But this part DID get under my skin:

Yost also caught his share of flak for not pulling Turnbow from games before he completely melted down. Turnbow often followed one walk with another and seldom succeeded when summoned with men on base, but Yost at times didn’t have what he considered better options in a bullpen running on fumes in the second half.

“There were times when red flags would go up and I’d go get him,” said Yost. “But he’s a guy who very seldom gets through an inning clean. You have to give him a little leeway. A lot of times, he finds ways to get out of it.

“When he got in trouble last year, a lot of time it would be with two outs. You’d think that he was one pitch away (from escaping). (Fans) want you to plug in the crystal ball.

This is a bald-faced lie.  Turnbow’s implosions began from almost the first pitch.  Yost defending his stupidity.  Bah!

Harveys Wallbangers Posted: March 02, 2008 at 03:29 PM | 11 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: general

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   1. Jay Z Posted: March 02, 2008 at 05:09 PM (#2704180)
In 62 of Turnbow's appearances he gave up 0 runs. So I'm sure there were a number of occasions where he allowed a basserunner or even two and the roof didn't cave in.

Turnbow is not a guy I have a lot of confidence in. He's on the team, or in camp anyway, because they gave him a big contract based on 2005. That being said the notion that he was completely predictable in his statistical patterns is highly exaggerated.

Turnbow overall did not pitch well on back to back days. But this was a tendency unique to 2007; he hadn't shown the problem before. And still a number of times he was used back to back and got it done. And the Brewers' bullpen was thin, so what were the other options if you give Turnbow the baby treatment? And sometimes he blew up anyway even with rest.

The overuse issue again is overblown. Same number of innings as his big year in 2005, when he got stronger as the season progressed. Turnbow did throw more pitches in 2007, because his control was a lot worse. Again, who picks up those innings if you cut Turnbow's load?

Whatever you think of Yost, the idea that anyone was going to get a lot from that bunch of stiffs is not one I agree with. Cordero excepted, they needed to blow it up and did so.
   2. Tricky Dick Posted: March 02, 2008 at 05:45 PM (#2704191)
"I talked to my agent (from) the winter meetings and he said Doug Melvin was going to call me and talk to me about being the closer," said Turnbow.

"At the time, I thought I was going to be the guy. They ended up signing Gagne shortly afterward. I understand why they did it. I have a lot of respect for Doug and Ned.


Turnbow may still get his chance to be closer for the Brewers. Gagne's future is hard to figure out. I wouldn't be surprised if he thrives as the Brewers' closer. But I also wouldn't be surprised if he is terrible in the closer role, and is demoted.
   3. PreservedFish Posted: March 02, 2008 at 09:46 PM (#2704304)
I don't mean this as a gibe to Milwaukee fans, but excerpt above could be applied word-for-word to Guillermo Mota.
   4. BeanoCook Posted: March 02, 2008 at 10:54 PM (#2704334)
No matter what, Yost is a moron that is so fixated on rigid "roles" that he might as let a 6 year old girl manage the pen in the final 3 innings. 7th Linebrink, 8th Turnbow, 9th Cordero.

Where is the managing? This is a recipe, not the work of a manager. This only allows Yost to point to his "system" and pretend he is blameless. Ever hear of letting an effective reliever work 2 innings?

Has anyone ever studied what risks are introduced into the game just from the mere fact you bring 4 different pitchers into a game? I don't care if you start with Koufax, then bring in Drysdale, Rivera and Gossage. This is still 4 pitchers and there has to be some unnecessary risk there. It just takes one bad outing from one of these guys to lose a game.
   5. The Kids Are Enright (1k5v3L) Posted: March 02, 2008 at 11:20 PM (#2704343)
Bob Melvin too was fixated on rigid roles in the AZ bullpen last year. That worked out OK.
Then again, Melvin never asked Valverde to work 6 days in a row, like Yost did with Coco.
But let me stop criticizing Yost before Harveys kicks me out of this thread again.
   6. BeanoCook Posted: March 05, 2008 at 02:29 AM (#2706309)
Interesting, Bob Melvin was a former Brewer bench coach.
   7. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: March 05, 2008 at 02:50 AM (#2706320)
I heard Turnbow give a radio interview late last week, he admitted he wants to work less this year, and also admitted that he sometimes knew early that he didn't necessarily have his command.
   8. BeanoCook Posted: March 05, 2008 at 03:05 AM (#2706328)
I heard Turnbow give a radio interview ...... and also admitted that he sometimes knew early that he didn't necessarily have his command.


So did everyone else, except Yost.
   9. _ Posted: March 05, 2008 at 03:40 AM (#2706346)
I was at the games on Sunday and Monday. On Monday our seats were right behind the plate among the scouts. The guy in front of me has apparently been scouting Turnbow all Spring; when Derrick pitched yesterday I saw his notebook with the mph readings for every pitch Turnbow has thrown this year. (Yesterday he pitched one perfect inning with no Ks; all his pitches were 92-94. His best this year is 95.) One note I saw was something about Turnbow showing too much effort in his delivery. So, apparently teams (or at least one team) are seeing the Brewer bullpen surplus and maybe looking to make a deal. FWIW. I really wanted to talk to the guy, but I didn't have the nerve.
   10. Charter Member of the Jesus Melendez Fanclub Posted: March 05, 2008 at 03:45 AM (#2706350)
In 62 of Turnbow's appearances he gave up 0 runs. So I'm sure there were a number of occasions where he allowed a basserunner or even two and the roof didn't cave in.


42 such occasions

And one other occasion when he allowed 3 baserunners, but 0 runs.
   11. Pat Rapper's Delight Posted: March 05, 2008 at 04:44 AM (#2706360)
OMG TEH STERIODS!!!!!!!! THIS STUDY SHOULD NOT EVEN EXIST SINCE TURNBOW'S STATS SHOULD BE THROWN OUT OF THE RECORD BOOK!!!!!!!!!1!!!!!!!!

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