Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Tuesday, October 20, 2009

U.S.S. Mariner: Dave’s 2010 Off-Season Plan

The Moves

Trade Brandon Morrow to Milwaukee for J.J. Hardy.
Trade Jose Lopez, Mark Lowe, and Jason Vargas to Chicago for John Danks.
Sign Nick Johnson to a one year, $9 million contract
Sign Orlando Hudson to a two year, $16 million contract
Sign Ben Sheets to a one year, $7 million contract
Sign Russell Branyan to a one year, $4 million contract…

Giving up four years of Morrow for two years of Hardy is a risk, but it’s a risk the M’s should be willing to take. Young pitchers are full of false hope, so while Morrow may indeed put it together and become a quality starting pitcher, the M’s would be better off building around a shortstop instead. The Brewers have coveted Morrow for years, and they probably won’t get a better arm in return for Hardy. It’s a win-win trade, upgrading the M’s infield while giving the Brewers a pitcher they badly need.

Now, having written all that, perhaps you’ll think it is a little hypocritical that I then immediately suggest swapping an infielder for a pitcher by sending Lopez, Lowe, and Vargas to Chicago for Danks. However, the situations are quite a bit different. Despite his age, Lopez is simply not the kind of player the M’s want to build around for the future, and his value will be maximized in another city. His best skill, power to left field, is in direct conflict with the way Safeco plays. The M’s will get less value from Lopez than just about every other team in baseball, so moving him to an environment that doesn’t clash with his skills is an efficiency maximization decision.

He forgot “give Ken Williams a lobotomy.”

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: October 20, 2009 at 03:59 PM | 251 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: mariners

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 3 of 3 pages  < 1 2 3
   201. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: October 22, 2009 at 05:37 PM (#3362334)
Why does everything get so personal in the internet baseball community. We all like baseball and we're all overly obsessive about it. All this in-fighting is weird.


Shut up, ugly.
   202. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: October 22, 2009 at 05:40 PM (#3362336)
Shut up, ugly.

Well, I'm not that ugly. I'm more John Lackey ugly than Don Mossi ugly.
   203. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: October 22, 2009 at 05:42 PM (#3362340)
Well, I'm not that ugly. I'm more John Lackey ugly than Don Mossi ugly.


Now you're just being modest Shooty.
   204. RJ in TO Posted: October 22, 2009 at 05:43 PM (#3362341)
I'm more John Lackey ugly than Don Mossi ugly.


I can vouch for that. He takes after his mom.
   205. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: October 22, 2009 at 05:46 PM (#3362346)
I can vouch for that. He takes after his mom.

Mom's a handsome woman, for sure. Speaking of which, I better give her a description of Steve Phillips just in case...
   206. RJ in TO Posted: October 22, 2009 at 05:47 PM (#3362348)
To encourage her, or to warn her?
   207. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: October 22, 2009 at 05:49 PM (#3362351)
To encourage her, or to warn her?

I'll leave that up to her. But if she goes to the movies, I don't want Steve Philips offering to share his tub of popcorn with her without her knowing who he is.
   208. Designated Sitter (GGC) Posted: October 22, 2009 at 05:52 PM (#3362355)
Man, you guys are reviving this thread? I hope my posts on it weren't too embarrassing.
   209. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: October 22, 2009 at 05:53 PM (#3362357)
Man, you guys are reviving this thread? I hope my posts on it weren't too embarrassing.

YOU'RE hoping YOUR posts aren't too embarassing????????
   210. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 22, 2009 at 05:54 PM (#3362358)
Why does everything get so personal in the internet baseball community. We all like baseball and we're all overly obsessive about it. All this in-fighting is weird. This is fun time, guys. This is where we come to discuss the merits of Jose Lopez and dookie. I'm not sure why every time Tango, or Dave Cameron or MGL or Rob etc. come onto the site there's always gotta be a couple of people that need to get personal. It's cool those guys hang out here and engage us. These guys make the site better and, if a few of them sound like know-it-alls, well, a lot of the regulars here should look in the mirror before throwing stones.

Shooty,

Basically this site is about arguing. Arguing baseball, arguing politics, arguing music, movies, whatever. It's the 21st century version of the corner bar. Most of us here love to debate, and most of us manage to keep it tothe ideas (avoid personal attacks). Not to say we don't get plenty snarky at time, and engage in lots of hyperbole.

Cameron and MGL in particular don't seem to want to debate. Their writing often conveys an "I'm the expert, your the student" tone (I don't get this from Tango, BTW). This rubs a lot of us the wrong way, and leads us to playing "gotcha" when they say something stupid. The fact that they typically don't acknowledge errors, feeds the frenzy even more. They don't seem to realize that many of the posters here are just as smart, and educated, and skilled in quantitative disciplines as they are. So, even if we don't have the specific sabremetric knowledge, they don't always know more than us about everything.

My 2 cents, for what it is worth.

I'll also issue a blanket apology if I've been out of line and offended anyone. I tend to get overly passionate in debate.
   211. RJ in TO Posted: October 22, 2009 at 05:54 PM (#3362359)
Come on, GGC. You're one of the more polite people around this place. If you're embarassed about your posts on this thread, your embarassment threshold is way to low.

As a counter, I'm quite sure that I've got a goodly number of posts spread around this site for which I should be much more embarassed than I am.

EDIT: Basically, what Shooty said.
   212. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: October 22, 2009 at 05:56 PM (#3362360)
As a counter, I'm quite sure that I've got a goodly number of posts spread around this site for which I should be much more embarassed than I am.

Most of those are condensed in the threads in which you argue Alexis Rios doesn't suck.
   213. RJ in TO Posted: October 22, 2009 at 05:56 PM (#3362362)
I'll also issue a blanket apology if I've been out of line and offended anyone.


It's about damn time. I've been waiting for this apology for years.

You know what I'm talking about.
   214. RJ in TO Posted: October 22, 2009 at 05:57 PM (#3362364)
Most of those are condensed in the threads in which you argue Alexis Rios doesn't suck.


Give him time. I've still got another 5 years of denial, before I finally have to face up to the truth on that one.
   215. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: October 22, 2009 at 05:59 PM (#3362368)
Hey snapper, I just meant in general. I wasn't trying to single anyone out.
   216. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 22, 2009 at 06:01 PM (#3362371)
Hey snapper, I just meant in general. I wasn't trying to single anyone out.

I know. But I also know I go off the deep end a little now and again. Snark is so easy on teh interwebs. Damn you Al Gore!
   217. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: October 22, 2009 at 06:04 PM (#3362377)
I know. But I also know I go off the deep end a little now and again. Snark is so easy on teh interwebs. Damn you Al Gore!

True. I've a written a thousand F-You responses that I just never hit the "submit" button on. I think I got drunk once and called a certain Nats fan on this site a dick in a pique of anger and I've regretted that since. Coming here should be my happy time. Frustration and anger are how I make my living.
   218. RJ in TO Posted: October 22, 2009 at 06:06 PM (#3362380)
Frustration and anger are how I make my living.


Based on yesterday's poop thread, I thought you made your living by monitoring your co-workers' bathroom habits.
   219. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: October 22, 2009 at 06:08 PM (#3362385)
Based on yesterday's poop thread, I thought you made your living by monitoring your co-workers' bathroom habits.

I'm a piker. There are guys in my office who confront the offenders sometimes. Those confrontations are always fun. I just silently rage about how disgusting humans are.
   220. Designated Sitter (GGC) Posted: October 22, 2009 at 06:10 PM (#3362388)
Come on, GGC. You're one of the more polite people around this place. If you're embarassed about your posts on this thread, your embarassment threshold is way to low.

As a counter, I'm quite sure that I've got a goodly number of posts spread around this site for which I should be much more embarassed than I am.


I may have rubbed Dave the wrong way. I'm not sure why I care, anyways. It's not like I'm gonna change anything with my posts.
   221. robinred Posted: October 22, 2009 at 06:10 PM (#3362389)
True. I've a written a thousand F-You responses that I just never hit the "submit" button on.


Doesn't admitting this kind of defeat the purpose of doing it? My advice to is to answer me by saying FUKC YOU and hitting "submit." You'll feel better and have a better bowel movement, too.

Snark is so easy on teh interwebs
.

Yeah, but at least you actually talk to the commie pinkos like me. That buys you some snark.


Based on yesterday's poop thread, I thought you made your living by monitoring your co-workers' bathroom habits


No, that is what he does for "happy time."
   222. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: October 22, 2009 at 06:16 PM (#3362396)
My advice to is to answer me by saying FUKC YOU and hitting "submit."

His vision, from the constantly passing bars,
has grown so weary that it cannot hold
anything else. It seems to him there are
a thousand bars, and behind the bars, no world.
   223. robinred Posted: October 22, 2009 at 06:19 PM (#3362401)
My advice to is to answer me by saying FUKC YOU and hitting "submit."


The work of the eyes is done. Go now and do the heart-work on the images imprisoned within you.
   224. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: October 22, 2009 at 06:22 PM (#3362403)
Ha, no one was expecting this hi-jack!
   225. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 22, 2009 at 06:25 PM (#3362408)
Ha, no one was expecting this hi-jack!

Speaking of hijacks, it seems like there hasn't been a decent Met thread on here in ages. I've tried to engage a few times on 2010 roster construction (b/c I think it's a real interesting challenge) and the threads just die.

This season really seems to have taken the starch out of the Mets contingent. It's almost enough to make me feel sorry for them, almost.
   226. RJ in TO Posted: October 22, 2009 at 06:29 PM (#3362414)
This season really seems to have taken the starch out of the Mets contingent.


If you were a Mets' fan, would you really want to talk about this season? I'd imagine that it's similar to being a Jays' fan, where you just wander around aimlessly, asking "What the hell happened?" except that things were even worse for the Mets than for the Jays.
   227. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: October 22, 2009 at 06:31 PM (#3362416)
This season really seems to have taken the starch out of the Mets contingent. It's almost enough to make me feel sorry for them, almost.

Jeez, just enjoy it while it lasts. Mets fans are easily frightened but they'll soon return and in greater numbers.
   228. robinred Posted: October 22, 2009 at 06:31 PM (#3362417)
and the threads just die.


I will assume that the Mets will be the second-most "threaded" team here this off-season, behind the Red Sox. For some Mets fans, I'd guess a Phillies/Yankees WS will be seen as the fitting end to 2009, sort of like spitting on a guy after you stab him 57 times.
   229. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 22, 2009 at 06:38 PM (#3362424)
If you were a Mets' fan, would you really want to talk about this season? I'd imagine that it's similar to being a Jays' fan, where you just wander around aimlessly, asking "What the hell happened?" except that things were even worse for the Mets than for the Jays.

Well, I'm the type to analyze a disaster (it must be my economics training) but I can see that.

Jeez, just enjoy it while it lasts. Mets fans are easily frightened but they'll soon return and in greater numbers.

Good point.

BTW Shooty, did you steal the SF Giants roster construction plan for DMB, or is it just who happened to be the best player available when you drafted?
   230. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: October 22, 2009 at 06:46 PM (#3362435)
BTW Shooty, did you steal the SF Giants roster construction plan for DMB, or is it just who happened to be the best player available when you drafted?

I have a plan. I swear I do! But, my god, it is an awful lot like the Giants. Ruh-roh.
   231. JJ1986 Posted: October 22, 2009 at 06:47 PM (#3362437)
I've tried to engage a few times on 2010 roster construction (b/c I think it's a real interesting challenge) and the threads just die.

Mets should trade Dan Murphy, Brian Stokes and Nelson Figueroa to the White Sox for John Danks. That would be the beginning of a good offseason.
   232. RJ in TO Posted: October 22, 2009 at 06:49 PM (#3362439)
I have a plan. I swear I do! But, my god, it is an awful lot like the Giants. Ruh-roh.

The Giants won 88 games. You could do far worse.
   233. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 22, 2009 at 06:50 PM (#3362441)
Mets should trade Dan Murphy, Brian Stokes and Nelson Figueroa to the White Sox for John Danks. That would be the beginning of a good offseason.

C'mon be fair. Substitute Castillo for Murphy and eat half his contract.
   234. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 22, 2009 at 06:57 PM (#3362451)
I have a plan. I swear I do! But, my god, it is an awful lot like the Giants. Ruh-roh.

I was heading down the same path, Longoria, then 4 pitchers. All based on best available.

For Rds 4 and 5 I had to just take all pitchers off my list.
   235. RJ in TO Posted: October 22, 2009 at 06:59 PM (#3362457)
For Rds 4 and 5 I had to just take all pitchers off my list.


Nice. You draft in front of me. That's one less person I have to worry about stealing the guy I want.
   236. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: October 22, 2009 at 07:01 PM (#3362462)
Guys, we are going to piss everyone off discussing this stuff here. No one cares about our made up baseball teams!
   237. robinred Posted: October 22, 2009 at 07:02 PM (#3362466)
Is this the DMB league Gaelan proposed starting? If so, who joined? So, yes, I guess I am interested.
   238. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: October 22, 2009 at 07:04 PM (#3362468)
I have a plan. I swear I do! But, my god, it is an awful lot like the Giants. Ruh-roh.


If I get Michael Tucker will you trade a top pick for him?
   239. RJ in TO Posted: October 22, 2009 at 07:05 PM (#3362469)
If so, who joined?


Me, and a bunch of ######## who keep stealing the players I want.
   240. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 22, 2009 at 07:06 PM (#3362471)
Guys, we are going to piss everyone off discussing this stuff here. No one cares about our made up baseball teams!

Is this the DMB league Gaelan proposed starting? If so, who joined? So, yes, I guess I am interested.

Maybe we should try and get our own thread, like a Sox Therapy kind of thing.

It will encourage much more league cameradery and trash talking. :-)
   241. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: October 22, 2009 at 07:06 PM (#3362473)
Me, and a bunch of ######## who keep stealing the players I want.

Step out of the groupthink, ya crybaby. A. Rios is waiting for you...
   242. RJ in TO Posted: October 22, 2009 at 07:07 PM (#3362474)
A. Rios is waiting for you...


He's going to be waiting a long, long time.
   243. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: October 22, 2009 at 07:10 PM (#3362476)
He's going to be waiting a long, long time.

So you're saying you don't have a jones for him?
   244. RJ in TO Posted: October 22, 2009 at 07:11 PM (#3362480)
So you're saying you don't have a jones for him?


Perhaps a Jim Jones.
   245. Designated Sitter (GGC) Posted: October 22, 2009 at 07:22 PM (#3362485)
rr, I skipped it. Work has been killing me lately. I don't feel that much like spending my off hours in front of a computer. I need to get a notebook or something, anyways. I still have a desktop and when I moved, the best place for me to stick it was the basement. (Mine, not my mom's.) I thought about making it an office, but haven't got around to it yet.
   246. Designated Sitter (GGC) Posted: October 22, 2009 at 11:36 PM (#3362765)
Another Cameron post that I agree with. Pretty soon, we'll be singing Kumbaya.
   247. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: October 23, 2009 at 12:36 AM (#3362877)
Another Cameron post that I agree with. Pretty soon, we'll be singing Kumbaya.


I agreed with it when I read the headline. Then I read the entry, and I agreed with it again.
   248. The Keith Law Blog Blah Blah (battlekow) Posted: March 31, 2010 at 05:37 PM (#3489606)
Doug Melvin may "love" Brandon Morrow, and might feel that he HAS to trade JJ Hardy (which I'm still not buying), but it doesn't mean he's going to accept less than full value for Hardy.

Sigh.
   249. AROM Posted: March 31, 2010 at 05:59 PM (#3489635)
So how does Dave's wishlist stack up to the real offseason moves?

I see no reason to budge on my opinion that his 3 player package is not anywhere close to an acceptable offer for John Danks, but they did wind up getting Cliff Lee for mid range prospects. The Johnson, Branyan, and Hudson offers are better than what those players accepted elsewhere. Morrow is probably a better return than Gomez for Hardy. Sheets wound up costing a bit more than that, though with his disastrous spring that might a bullet dodged.

The plan called for going cheap at 3b and lf instead of dumping a sunk cost for Bradley and signing Figgins. Those are Jack Z's advantages. Dave's team has big advantages at DH (Johnson) and shortstop (Hardy). I call Kotchman/Lopez a wash with Branyan/Hudson. Probably doesn't make too much difference either way.
   250. Dewey, Steven Wright Wannabe and Soupuss Posted: May 25, 2010 at 02:59 PM (#3542200)
Imagine how bad the White Sox would be right now if they had taken Mr. Cameron's advice.
   251. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: May 25, 2010 at 03:08 PM (#3542205)
Too much schadenfreude will make you go blind.
   252. The Keith Law Blog Blah Blah (battlekow) Posted: July 09, 2010 at 03:06 AM (#3583022)
Cameron tonight: "Mariners could DFA Jose Lopez after the game and I wouldn't blink. He's that bad right now."

Meanwhile, John Danks tossed a two-hit, no-walk shutout with seven strikeouts.
   253. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: July 13, 2010 at 11:19 PM (#3588804)
Imagine how bad the White Sox would be right now if they had taken Mr. Cameron's advice.


But what about Jason Vargas?
Page 3 of 3 pages  < 1 2 3

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Ray (RDP)
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogYESNetwork: A look at five Yankees' cases for enshrinement in Monument Park
(4 - 9:38am, May 26)
Last: SOLockwood

NewsblogMatschulat: Did I Miss The "Paul Konerko Is So Overrated OMG" Bandwagon?
(33 - 9:36am, May 26)
Last: Greg Maddux School of Reflexive Profanity

NewsblogMaddon on Red Sox beaning Luke Scott: 'I think it's ridiculous, I think it's absurd, idiotic'
(10 - 9:18am, May 26)
Last: Mattbert

Sox TherapyA Winning Ballclub?
(21 - 8:34am, May 26)
Last: Darren

NewsblogHP: Baseball is leaving the human factor behind
(60 - 7:55am, May 26)
Last: Designated Sitter (GGC)

NewsblogWilmoth: Nate McLouth Designated For Assignment
(13 - 7:52am, May 26)
Last: Russ

NewsblogOT: NBA Monthly Thread, May 2012
(1835 - 7:45am, May 26)
Last: thok

NewsblogThe Hall of Very Good: Former Cards Slugger Critical of "LaRussa's Regime"
(6 - 7:16am, May 26)
Last: Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader

NewsblogCSN to host ‘Phillies at the Beach’ on Memorial Day
(19 - 7:11am, May 26)
Last: God

NewsblogT.R. Sullivan: Of Frank Robinson, Milt Pappas and Jim Palmer
(10 - 7:09am, May 26)
Last: God

NewsblogBud Selig -- No need for more MLB replay for now - ESPN
(88 - 6:12am, May 26)
Last: Lassus

NewsblogHimrich’s Top Ten Target Field Foods
(8 - 2:43am, May 26)
Last: Long John McCaine Mutiny on the Bounty (scott)

NewsblogBoston.com: Curt Schilling’s 38 Studios lays off all staff
(119 - 1:28am, May 26)
Last: Swedish Chef

Hall of MeritMost Meritorious Player: 1973 Discussion
(15 - 12:13am, May 26)
Last: DanG

Hall of MeritMost Meritorious Player: 1972 Ballot
(28 - 11:25pm, May 25)
Last: lieiam

Buy MLB playoff tickets, plus 2011 World Series, 2011 ALCS tickets and NLCS game tickets. We also have Texas Rangers playoff schedule, tickets to Red Sox games and Yankees game tickets. Plus, buy Phillies baseball tickets, Tigers playoff tickets and the biggies like ALDS baseball tickets and 2011 NLDS tickets.

Demarini, Easton and TPX Baseball Bats

 

 

 

AllianceTickets.com has cheap MLB Tickets. Get all your Colorado Rockies Tickets, Seattle Mariners Tickets, San Francisco Giants Tickets and all your favorite baseball tickets here. We also carry cheap Denver Broncos Tickets, Seattle Seahawks Tickets and Denver Nuggets Tickets.

Page rendered in 0.3151 seconds
55 querie(s) executed