For all those who wanted something 180 degrees from Francona, here ya go...

FWIW, my observations on Youkilis from the home opener:

1. There was a double down the 3B line at one point that I thought prior-year Youkilis would've gotten to easily. Maybe he's trying not to be so reckless this year, and admittedly diving plays at 3B are not as easy as I'm making them seem, but I was surprised he didn't get it. Whatever.

2. At one point the Red Sox put a shift on (I think) Pena on (I think) a 3-1 count. Valentine prefers to shift by moving the 3B between 2B and 1B, rather than have all players shift around the diamond, because he'd rather have one infielder out of position than three. Pena got a hit. From what I recall Youkilis kind of stood there watching the events unfold, while Pedroia started running over to cover 3rd in case the runners went that far.

At the start of the shift Youkilis seemed surprised he was being asked to move over there, even though they'd done this in spring training. I wonder if they shifted on a 3-1 count because it took 4 pitches for Youk to notice they were telling him to shift.

And another observation, separate from the home opener:

3. Youkilis, in the past, has struck me as one of those "there's only one right way to play the game" kind of players, from the Carlton Fisk mold. It wouldn't surprise me if these extra maneuvers from Valentine - shifting the 3B; with a runner on 3rd starting the IF back then having them run in as the pitcher winds up - are seen by Youkilis as pointless and the "wrong" way to play. If that's the case, he will be miserable playing for Valentine.

Wasn't there a play with a runner on second, where a ball was hit to the SS/3B hole, and Aviles made the play and looked to third, but Youkilis wasn't covering the bag? I think it was one of the infield singles in the Bard game.

got his on-base percentage up higher than his batting average, which is always a good thing

Yeah, its usually a good thing to have more walks than sacrifice flies.

I'm not saying that Bobby V should be calling him out in the media - in general, I don't like that as a motivational strategy - but I don't think Youk has been on top of his responsibilities in the field.

And the plot naturally thickens; from today's Extra Bases:

Dustin Pedroia came to the defense of his teammate this morning.

"I don't know what Bobby's trying to do, but that's not the way we do things here," said Pedroia. "Maybe that stuff works in Japan."

Fenway Zoo, here we come...

"Maybe that stuff works in Japan."

Yoi and double-yoi. Wow.

Dustin Pedroia came to the defense of his teammate this morning.

"I don't know what Bobby's trying to do, but that's not the way we do things here," said Pedroia. "Maybe that stuff works in Japan."

Oh, this is going to be good.

"Maybe that stuff works in Japan."

I could see this being said in a joking fashion or in a deadly-serious fashion; the article gives no indication which it was. Still, though... It probably says something that it was said that way at all to a reporter.

It's been a while since there's been a team that wins a WS while hating its manager at the same time... I can't recall the last example of one other than Dallas Green in 1980, but I'm probably forgetting one or two. It'll be interesting--if that is the dynamic that emerges--how it all turns out.

Youk gets the day off today with Punto at 3rd.

It's been a while since there's been a team that wins a WS while hating its manager at the same time... I can't recall the last example of one other than Dallas Green in 1980, but I'm probably forgetting one or two. It'll be interesting--if that is the dynamic that emerges--how it all turns out.

How much of that is just the fact that everyone's happy when you're winning?

Congratulations, Bobby! What's your next trick, piss off Papi? Annoy Adrian Gonzalez? Remind Darnell McDonald that he lost a race to a horse?

It's been a while since there's been a team that wins a WS while hating its manager at the same time

I expect a few guys hated Ozzie on the 2005 White Sox. I wouldn't be stunned to learn that Leyland in '97 made a couple of enemies, he's a pretty direct guy. Brenly in '01 made some curious moves that could have upset some guys. LaRussa did things his way. I doubt that any team of recent vintage succeeded with consensus dislike of the boss though. Who else? Torre, Francona, Scioscia, Cox, Bochy...I'd bet they had guys pretty devoted during their championship seasons.

My guess is that if the team is unified in their hatred of the manager it is going to be tough to succeed, if a couple of guys are pissed, that should not be a problem.

My guess is that if the team is unified in their hatred of the manager it is going to be tough to succeed, if a couple of guys are pissed, that should not be a problem.

I think I'd go the other way--if literally everyone hates Valentine, there is unity in disunity against the manager, and that could work (I vaguely recall some stories about the Orioles and Weaver that indicated such a situation).

It really depends on how petty things get, I suppose. I haven't watched more than a couple of games so far, and haven't noticed anything like what vi points out in #2, but if that's what Valentine sees/saw, I can certainly see where the Valentine of old would pull a move like this.

I've always rooted against the Red Sox as part of midwest complex, but this most recent vintage of Red Sox squads seems actually unlikeable.

I've gone from rooting against laundry and media fellatio to actually rooting against the team itself, which is sort of a new turn of events. I didn't mind some of those past teams.

Pedroia leaping to Youkilis' defense is a marked contrast to Youkilis throwing Ellsbury under the bus two years ago when Ells had his rib injury.

I think I'd go the other way--if literally everyone hates Valentine, there is unity in disunity against the manager, and that could work

I can see that. My concern would be if guys are ######## and not getting ready to play that would be the negative. If a couple of guys are flopping then you just move them around in the order or change playing time and so be it.

I agree with VI in #2, that was my first reaction at that ball too, it looked catchable. Youk is off to a lousy start. He is not looking as helpless as 2010 Ortiz did but he has looked pretty bad so far.

Youkilis should be sitting once a week in order to rest his old man body. An 11 am game seems like a perfect choice.

One comment from Pedroia is hardly enough to justify the theory that the whole roster hates Bobby V. On the other hand, timing your public comment on Youk's poor play with his scheduled off-day seems like a good way to piss off players, not a good way to motivate them. We'll see.

I admit, as an outsider with a fondness for Valentine I was hoping this wouldn't quite be going this way this quickly.

timing your public comment on Youk's poor play with his scheduled off-day seems like a good way to piss off players, not a good way to motivate them. We'll see.

From a Nick Cafardo tweeet about half an hour ago;

Youkilis not in the lineup because of sore groin according to Bobby V.

I can't find a transcription online yet, but Bobby V has semi-apologized for the comments...

EDIT: Rob Bradford on the Twitters:

Valentine said "physical" was Youkilis swing and "emotional" was reaction to at-bats outcome. Apologized to Youkilis this morning

#18--I agree; I don't think the benching today has anything to do with the comment. Punto started Bard's other start (although at SS, not 3B); it's possible BV just wants Punto somewhere in the infield for Bard's starts, and will use it to give rest to Aviles/Youk on an as-needed basis.

From a Nick Cafardo tweeet about half an hour ago;
Youkilis not in the lineup because of sore groin according to Bobby V.

This sounds like he has a sore groin from being kicked in the balls by Bobby V.

Youkilis not in the lineup because of sore groin according to Bobby V.

Can't wait to see what this injury becomes by mid-July.

EDIT: misread comment I was responding to. carry on.

What's your next trick, piss off Papi? Annoy Adrian Gonzalez? Remind Darnell McDonald that he lost a race to a horse?

That should be 'Diss DMac'. or 'tell Agon he should Bgone.'.

"A statement of fact should never be misconstrued as criticism. I don’t think it is, or should be... If ignorant people misinterpret simple statements, it’s not my fault. If factual statements are misconstrued as criticism, that’s somebody else’s problem." - Bobby Valentine, during spring training, on questions about whether he was trying to criticize one of his players through the media

The reactions in this thread, and Pedroia's reaction, seem to be based on the assumption that Valentine either (a) hasn't already had a discussion with Youkilis on his physical/emotional state - or (b) even if he had such a discussion he shouldn't bring it up to the media.

We don't know the answer to (a), but for the moment let's assume he did have that discussion. That brings us to (b). So, what's the right approach? Last year the players were accountable to nobody. Francona was great at keeping the media at bay from the players' issues, but it appears that the players abused their insulated status and didn't have anyone holding them accountable for their play.

Valentine - assuming he and Youkilis have talked - is airing in public something that perhaps Youkilis would rather be private. Maybe he's got issues at home and doesn't want to talk about it. Maybe he has cancer. Maybe he has a stalker. Maybe he's pining for Francona, or Varitek, or Heidi Watney. Whatever. On one hand, Youkilis is now accountable to the world for his physical and emotional state as it relates to playing baseball. On the other hand, maybe Youk thinks none of this is anyone's business, and this will become an unnecessary distraction for the players and his teammates, one that will make the players less likely to confide in Valentine and will hurt the team in the long run.

I don't know what the "right" way is for this. But I'm going back to Valentine's comments earlier in spring training... He's going to answer questions factually, and if someone takes fact as criticism it's not on him. This might be our first big dose of it.

I think it's more that you need to be Phil Jackson if you're going to do these things. It needs to be mostly in house, but then drop an opaque quote that suggests you're unhappy with something. I just don't know that I think Bobby is Phil Jackson.

He's going to answer questions factually, and if someone takes fact as criticism it's not on him. This might be our first big dose of it.

I think it's a fact that he is going to make a hash out of it if he persists in that notion.

I wonder if they shifted on a 3-1 count because it took 4 pitches for Youk to notice they were telling him to shift.

Shortstop can't call him? Pitcher can't step off the rubber and signal?

Shortstop can't call him? Pitcher can't step off the rubber and signal?

Can you imagine if Bobby walked out to Youk to tell him? That would be awesome.

"Well, Don. This is the first time I've ever seen the manager walk out to third base to hold a conference. Does it count as a mound visit if he doesn't cross the 3B line?"

Youkilis not in the lineup because of sore groin according to Bobby V.

Bobby V: "No. I said he's not in the lineup because his pussy is sore."

What are we to make of the reports the Red Sox worked out Mark Prior?

What are we to make of the reports the Red Sox worked out Mark Prior?

The Sox' medical staff and Mark Prior. I kind of think this would be like the ending of Ghostbusters where crossing the streams saves the day and somehow Prior would give the Sox 4 months of dominant performance.

I kind of think this would be like the ending of Ghostbusters where crossing the streams saves the day and somehow Prior would give the Sox 4 months of dominant performance.

Youk, when someone asks you if this is the best team ever, you say YES!

I kind of think this would be like the ending of Ghostbusters where crossing the streams saves the day and somehow Prior would give the Sox 4 months of dominant performance.

In this scenario, I'm guessing David Ortiz is the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man.

In this scenario, I'm guessing David Ortiz is the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man.

Curt Schilling.

I don't know what the "right" way is for this. But I'm going back to Valentine's comments earlier in spring training... He's going to answer questions factually, and if someone takes fact as criticism it's not on him. This might be our first big dose of it.

If that were the case, presumably he wouldn't have said "I don’t think [emphasis added] he’s as physically or emotionally into the game...".

I've gone from rooting against laundry

Especially pants, I presume.

Oops ... wrong (A)Smitty.

It's not often that you see a pitching line of 6.2 4 1 1 7 7. The Sox this year should be interesting if nothing else.

It's not often that you see a pitching line of 6.2 4 1 1 7 7. The Sox this year should be interesting if nothing else.

I guess that effectively offsets the good peripherals/bad results start.

I'm shocked he only threw 111 pitches with that line. You figure the 7 walks are good for about 40.

It's not often that you see a pitching line of 6.2 4 1 1 7 7. The Sox this year should be interesting if nothing else.

First time someone has exactly 7 K and 7 BB since Volquez in '09, and first time someone has at least 7 of each since J.A. Happ last July. But no one has at least 7 K and 7 BB and gone as far as Bard since Hideo Nomo did it in 2002.

But no one has at least 7 K and 7 BB and gone as far as Bard since Hideo Nomo did it in 2002.

However, if you go back just one more year, you can find someone who threw a complete game no-hitter with at least 7 K and 7 BB.

It's not often that you see a pitching line of 6.2 4 1 1 7 7. The Sox this year should be interesting if nothing else.

And people are calling today's start good and his first start bad. Sigh.

However, if you go back just one more year, you can find someone who threw a complete game no-hitter with at least 7 K and 7 BB.

AJ Burnett?

"A statement of fact should never be misconstrued as criticism. I don’t think it is, or should be... If ignorant people misinterpret simple statements, it’s not my fault. If factual statements are misconstrued as criticism, that’s somebody else’s problem." - Bobby Valentine, during spring training, on questions about whether he was trying to criticize one of his players through the media

Well the problem here is Bobby's belief that his opinion == facts.

Easily the best #5 starter in MLB.

AJ Burnett?

Yup. Nine walks, seven Ks.

A statement of fact should never be misconstrued as criticism.

The two are not mutually exclusive, Bobby. Moron.

Look, you take away the beer and Popeye's and employee satisfaction is bound to decline.

However, if you go back just one more year, you can find someone who threw a complete game no-hitter with at least 7 K and 7 BB.

Well, since it's the 40th anniversary and all, I'll point out that Burt Hooton's no-hitter featured 7 K and 7 BB.

The two are not mutually exclusive, Bobby.
Indeed. In fact it seems to me they're completely independent. If I say my third baseman isn't giving a full effort, it's a criticism regardless of whether it happens to be true or not.

Well the problem here is Bobby's belief that his opinion == facts.

He was asked for his opinion on Youkilis not seeming himself in the first few games. Valentine essentially agreed with that sentiment, then went on to say by Saturday Youk seemed more himself, and it's showing up in his numbers.

Everything aside from that is just word choice - admittedly poor word choice, but nonetheless that.

EDIT: Lo and behold, the clarification:

"I told him the last thing in the world I want you to think is that I'm doing anything to criticize you," Valentine said. "I told him I was just giving an answer to a question and I should've been more specific ...

EDIT 2: So, nobody should misconstrue a simple statement of fact as criticism, but it will be misconstrued if it's stated in as ham-fisted a way as Valentine said it.

I'm sure Michael Kay will give Bobby ample time to expound on his prior cooments when he does his radio show. What could go wrong?

Oops.

"So when Youkilis came into Valentine’s office this morning, the manager immediately attempted to smooth over the situation. “I thought it was about his groin. He was going to tell me how his groin was because it was sore after the game yesterday. So I said, ‘how you doing? How’s the groin?’ he says, ‘oh, it’s all right, but what’s going on?’

“When he told me that people called him and told him I said things he didn't like, I totally apologized. I said, Jeez, the last thing in the world I want you to think I’m that I’m doing anything I’m criticizing you. I was mentioning, giving an answer to a question. I should have been more specific and said, ‘your physical is about your swing and your emotional is about your…not being happy when you don’t hit a ball off the wall.’"

Hey, Bobby V: Shut up, stupid.

ESPN is teasing comments from Schilling & Francona on Bobby v. Youkilis coming up later on Sports Center. Makes it sound like they'll be throwing a little gas on the fire but that could just be hype.

I hope Curt Schilling has an opinion on this. I wonder if ESPN has asked him about it...

ESPN are really devoting a lot of time to this - Tito basically said 'Welcome to Boston, Bobby"

#9 Totally serious. More perplexed than angry, but seeming to get more agitated as he went along.

Mark my words, Bobby V does not last past this year, if he even lasts the year. Red Sox will find it impossible to sign some free agents, and will have to overpay for those who will sign, now that players know Bobby V has not changed his ways.

Letting Bard in his 2nd career start throw 111 pitches was criminal.

The problem with BV is that he sounds too calm and measured during these criticisms. If he'd throw a couple swears into every sentence we'd just see him as blowing off steam.

I prescribe ten Hail Marys, ten reenactments of Hal McRae's telephone toss, and fifteen recitations of Lloyd McClendon's speech after the Pirates lost 6-4 to the Expos.

I hope Curt Schilling has an opinion on this. I wonder if ESPN has asked him about it...

I'm sure Curt didn't need to be asked.

I feel that this was blundered in an epic way, especially in this market. They’re coming off a couple of days of playing great baseball. … This is the problem. You watch the postgame press conference. No matter what happens in this game today, all of the questions are going to be about this.

Let's face it: Schilling was right on the money with this one.

Let's face it: Schilling was right on the money with this one.

Maybe he was exaggerating juuuuuuust a little bit that something can be considered an epic blunder if it results in ... postgame questions about a quote.

I wish Schilling could use his insight to explain how the Sox current clubhouse/chemistry problems could translate into bad results on the field, rather than act as if the problem that could arise is increased talk amongst the media. The bad thing about any Youk/Bobby strife is the possible effect on team unity, managerial authority, and actual game results etc and not media hype or scrutiny.

problems could translate into bad results on the field

I gave tons of examples (Ok, maybe 3) last September.

There are presumably lots of examples, I wish Schilling would shed some insight on them instead of implying that it was a blunder because of the media uproar over it. We don't need an ex-player to echo what any self-important media blowhard would say.

Bobby Valentine is a clown. Film at 11.

This is news?

I think I'd go the other way--if literally everyone hates Valentine, there is unity in disunity against the manager, and that could work (I vaguely recall some stories about the Orioles and Weaver that indicated such a situation).

"Bobby brought the whole team together. Everyone hated him"
- Mike Piazza -

Maybe he really is still in "Analyzer mode" as suggested on MLB.TV.

I don't think I've ever quite heard a present manager referred to in such outsider terms as Pedroia did yesterday. Very interesting.