Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Saturday, November 17, 2012

Verducci: Cabrera’s win over Trout for AL MVP proves team results matter

SCREW THAT!...Here’s the important biz!

The pejorative nonsense about “new school” and “old school” was sad. Everybody uses advanced statistics, though how they weigh them varies. In fact, if Albert Reach can get on a Hall of Fame ballot next month essentially for publishing a baseball magazine for seven years in the 19th century (it helped sell his baseballs), someday Sean Forman, the brains behind baseballreference.com, should be on one. Who else has put more information just clicks away for fans and media? Delving not so deep into Forman’s mine, for instance, can reveal this:

Repoz Posted: November 17, 2012 at 08:26 AM | 102 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: hof, site news

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 2 of 2 pages  < 1 2
   101. vivaelpujols Posted: November 19, 2012 at 03:46 PM (#4306173)
I look at the two of them and see Trout leading in runs as a leadoff hitter and Cabrera leading in RBI as a three hitter and it's a wash.


Cabrera had 36 more Runs + RBIs compared to Cabrera. So you need 40 runs of defense and baserunning to make Trout better. Not sure most traditionalist really know the scale of defense and baserunning. Also they definitely won't consider park factors or double plays.

Now if by tradionalist you mean BA/OBP/SLG than yes I think anyone using those stats would consider Trout much better overall.

Why are stolen bases so important all of a sudden? And if you want to include them, it should be SB minus CS, cuz just listing stolen bases alone doesn't give an accurate portrayal of value.


I agree that it should be SB-CS but I'm just going for simplicity. Three stats that provide the most coverage of player value while also not being too rare. TB, BB and SB pretty much encompasses all of a player's value IMO. It shows us how many times he got on base via the walk and how many total bases he got with his hits and then what he did when he got on base. The stats are correlated with eachother (it's really hard to lead in BB and TB simultaneously) but they aren't directly related in the same way that RBIs and HRs are.

The problem with that triple crown is that I don't think it's ever been done. Ty Cobb lead in OBP/SLG/SB twice but never in BB or TB. So that's why I subbed out SB for BA. Then it's happened six times.

BA/BB/TB is good, but includes no baserunning. Problem with trying to include baserunning is there is no single metric; SB would be silly (I would've won the TC if it weren't for the valueless Vince Coleman in my league...). RUNS woudl not be bad, if you don't mind hte team dependent thing.

BA/BB/TB also misses park effects.


It's funny this comment is the exact opposite of the preceeding one. If you're trying to acutely measure value you're going to end up with someone close to WAR. The point of the triple crown is to pick 3 really simple stats that provide wide coverage of a player's value.

I think the three elements of the Triple Crown should be as separated as possible: hitting, baserunning, and fielding.


It's impossible to encompass hitting in one stat (unless you use wOBA, but then you're just going back to WAR) and fielding measurements right now are too imprecise.

I think you should be trying to encompass 3 of the 4 major skills (contact, power, walking and running).
   102. Ron J2 Posted: November 19, 2012 at 04:05 PM (#4306195)
#98 It also seems plausible that the new scoreboard screwed up the batter's eye in Anaheim. Certainly things like scoreboard changes have resulted in park factor changes elsewhere.
Page 2 of 2 pages  < 1 2

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Sheer Tim Foli
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogOTP 14 August 2014: The American Pastimes of Rock ā€™nā€™ Roll, Baseball and Poetry
(3179 - 10:39am, Aug 22)
Last: Cletus Van Damme

NewsblogColon becomes third active pitcher to beat all 30 teams
(42 - 10:36am, Aug 22)
Last: BDC

NewsblogJustin Verlander's domination of Dodgers looked like an Astros audition | ESPN
(20 - 10:33am, Aug 22)
Last: Tim D

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 8-22-2017
(5 - 10:29am, Aug 22)
Last: BDC

NewsblogMets' Steven Matz goes on disabled list | MLB.com
(4 - 10:17am, Aug 22)
Last: Renegade (((JE)))

NewsblogTaking Back the Ballparks - San Diego Padres
(57 - 10:14am, Aug 22)
Last: Brian

NewsblogWho Was George Wright? ā€“ Our Game
(3 - 10:13am, Aug 22)
Last: karlmagnus

Gonfalon CubsThat counted as Now
(5 - 10:08am, Aug 22)
Last: Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com

NewsblogMLB Central: Cat and Mouse Game | MLB.com (VIDEO)
(2 - 9:58am, Aug 22)
Last: Random Transaction Generator

NewsblogThe totality of Rafael Devers, who is eclipsing everything thought possible
(7 - 9:54am, Aug 22)
Last: Rickey! will gladly sacrifice your janitor

NewsblogNothing I can say but total eclipse of the OMNICHATTER, for August 21, 2017
(62 - 9:52am, Aug 22)
Last: Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™

Sox TherapyThe Gauntlet
(81 - 9:44am, Aug 22)
Last: Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com

NewsblogOT: New Season August 2017 Soccer Thread
(165 - 9:21am, Aug 22)
Last: SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY

NewsblogGiants eliminated in NL West with loss to Phillies, race is on to draft first
(6 - 9:17am, Aug 22)
Last: Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 8-21-2017
(17 - 12:16am, Aug 22)
Last: The Yankee Clapper

Page rendered in 0.1520 seconds
47 querie(s) executed