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Tuesday, June 30, 2009

Verducci: My All-Star team: Youth is served and popularity means nothing

Happy just to be away from the chair-adjusting smugidocity of Mitch Williams…the Dooch offers.

With only three days left before polling closes, it’s time to recognize the players who should be going to the All-Star Game, as if Ben Zobrist and Aaron Hill have any chance of catching Dustin Pedroia in the balloting. My All-Star team is based purely on merit, not on popularity or some archaic rule that every team must send a representative.

Indeed, after picking 62 deserving All-Stars, I discovered five teams were shut out: the A’s, White Sox, Nationals, Cubs and Reds. The Mariners, Rays, Blue Jays, Dodgers and Brewers put the most players on my team, with four apiece. Fourteen picks come out of the beastly AL East.

But what struck me most of all about this group of players is the youth. Forty-four of the 62 All-Stars were 30 and younger. I picked 15 starting pitchers, and 11 of them were between 23 and 28 years old, including my picks to start the game, Zack Greinke and Tim Lincecum.

What about the old guard? They’ve moved on to retirement (not always voluntarily) or decline. Alex Rodriguez had made nine straight All-Star Games. Manny Ramirez had a run going of 11 straight selections. No more. Only four players are older than 35: outfielder Raul Ibanez, 37; and three relief pitchers, Ryan Franklin, 36; Mariano Rivera, 39; and Trevor Hoffman, 41.

So here are my All-Star picks that from Aardsma to Zobrist are full of new faces (starters are marked with an asterisk).

Repoz Posted: June 30, 2009 at 07:17 PM | 71 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
Tags: awards, special topics

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1. Rusty Priske Posted: June 30, 2009 at 07:26 PM (#3238048)

Russ Branyan over Mark Teixeira? If there were team requirements, okay (maybe) but without? I don't think so.

The only differences between would be his ballot and the one I submitted earleir today is that I have Morneau at 1st and Adam Jones over Carl Crawford.

2. puck Posted: June 30, 2009 at 07:30 PM (#3238054)

You voted for Hawpe over Upton? Is it too soon to vote for Upton? I like Hawpe, but I had to go with someone who could actually run.

3. i'm not STEAGLES and you shouldn't be either Posted: June 30, 2009 at 07:31 PM (#3238055)

okay, without reading the ####### article, i can guess two of the mariners' 4 names, ichiro and king felix. #1 points out that branyan made it, so my question is this, who's the 4th?

4. JJ1986 Posted: June 30, 2009 at 07:32 PM (#3238062)

okay, without reading the ####### article, i can guess two of the mariners' 4 names, ichiro and king felix. #1 points out that branyan made it, so my question is this, who's the 4th?

Aardsma.

5. Rusty Priske Posted: June 30, 2009 at 07:32 PM (#3238063)

I did vote for Hawpe... but no worries. He isn't even showing up on the top 15.

6. RJ in TO Posted: June 30, 2009 at 07:36 PM (#3238069)

Guessing for the Jays: Scutaro, Hill, Halladay, and Rolen.

Checking the article, he went with Lind instead of Rolen, which would have been my next choice.

7. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader

Posted: June 30, 2009 at 07:39 PM (#3238072)

Scutaro!

8. The District Attorney Posted: June 30, 2009 at 07:40 PM (#3238075)

Did anyone see Bill James' article on his paysite about a different All-Star voting system? It was fascinating. To sum it up:

? 18-man rosters (plus four "injury backups" from either the home team, or the team in the other league that is geographically closest to the home team)
? Each team's fans vote for that team's representative
? The All-Star managers then put together the rosters, using these criteria:
? Minimum of 1, maximum of 2 players from each team
? At least 8 players who were voted #1 on their team by their fans; at least 12 who were voted #1 or #2; and at least 16 who were voted #1, #2 or #3

Under this system, it would no longer matter that certain teams are in bigger cities, have more and/or more fervent fans, run "All-Star voting campaigns", etc. It'd presumably be more informed voting, as fans know their own team best. And it should end up with two teams that both have reps from every franchise, and aren't watered-down at all -- they would look like real ALL-STAR TEAMS. One thing MLB probably wouldn't like about the suggestion is that it appears to be incompatible with Internet voting. But it was definitely interesting.

9. DCW3 Posted: June 30, 2009 at 07:48 PM (#3238079)

With only three days left before polling closes, it’s time to recognize the players who should be going to the All-Star Game, as if Ben Zobrist and Aaron Hill have any chance of catching Dustin Pedroia in the balloting.

Zobrist would have a better shot if he were actually on the ballot.

10. RJ in TO Posted: June 30, 2009 at 07:49 PM (#3238080)

Scutaro!

He's been a marvel for the Jays over the last couple season.

And to think a lot of people were saying that it was silly for JP to acquire him....

11. Randy Jones

Posted: June 30, 2009 at 07:51 PM (#3238083)

And it should end up with two teams that both have reps from every franchise, and aren't watered-down at all -- they would look like real ALL-STAR TEAMS.

I don't see how it would do this any better than the current system. In fact, the limit of 2 players max for each team would make for far more "watered-down" teams. Given the always unequal distribution of talent between teams, it is very likely that in any given year, some team will have 3 or more guys who are the best in their league at their positions. This would prevent some of those players from making the team.

12. DCW3 Posted: June 30, 2009 at 07:51 PM (#3238085)

Russ Branyan over Mark Teixeira? If there were team requirements, okay (maybe) but without? I don't think so.

He's clearly basing the team on 2009 numbers, and Branyan's having a better year than Teixeira.

13. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader

Posted: June 30, 2009 at 07:52 PM (#3238086)

He's been a marvel for the Jays over the last couple season.

I have seen very few players in my lifetime improve themselves as much as Scutaro. I really hope they find room for him on the team. He's 33 and this is probably going to be his only chance.

14. RJ in TO Posted: June 30, 2009 at 07:54 PM (#3238091)

I have seen very few players in my lifetime improve themselves as much as Scutaro. I really hope they find room for him on the team. He's 33 and this is probably going to be his only chance.

No! It's not his only chance!! It's his new level of performance, and it'll last forever!!! I can't hear you!!!! LALALALALALA!!!!!

15. Tripon Posted: June 30, 2009 at 07:56 PM (#3238092)

I wouldn't put Orlando Hudson on this list at the moment. He's slumping like crazy.

16. The District Attorney Posted: June 30, 2009 at 07:59 PM (#3238098)

the limit of 2 players max for each team would make for far more "watered-down" teams. Given the always unequal distribution of talent between teams, it is very likely that in any given year, some team will have 3 or more guys who are the best in their league at their positions. This would prevent some of those players from making the team.

I guess it depends how you look at it. You might have to, e.g., leave off Tex because you have Jeter and A-Rod... but you can always find a 1B, and the worst guy on the team would still be much better than the worst guy on the current team. Sure, you might not literally end up with the best 18 players in the league... but the only way to get that would be to take away both the fan voting and any franchise representation rules, so you're not getting that anyway. With only 18 players on the roster, I think it's basically inevitable that everyone on the team would be quite great.

17. Randy Jones

Posted: June 30, 2009 at 08:05 PM (#3238105)

and the worst guy on the team would still be much better than the worst guy on the current team

I don't see why this would be the case, except for the fewer team members. You could just keep the current voting rules and restrict the team to 18 players and poof, the worst player on the "new" team would be better than the worst player on the "old" team.

18. RJ in TO Posted: June 30, 2009 at 08:07 PM (#3238110)

I don't see why this would be the case.

I don't either. I'd guess that the worst guy on the team would be just like the current worst guy on the team, which is the token pick from the worst team in the league (as picked by the fans of that worst team).

EDIT: Actually, I could see the worst player being even worse than he is now, since a team's fan-base could easily organize a "Vote for the Worst" campaign in protest - think Pittsburgh, or Washington.

19. Ron Johnson Posted: June 30, 2009 at 08:09 PM (#3238112)

And to think a lot of people were saying that it was silly for JP to acquire him...

Who was saying this? He was signed as a backup infielder (who would have to play because Rolen was going to miss the start of the season) and he was obviously a first-rate backup.

My only complaint about the signing would have been that he wasn't an obvious upgrade on Joe Inglett. And I was wrong specifically because Scutaro has been far better at short than anybody expected.

Including the Jays.

20. Biff isn't really an apt handle anymore Posted: June 30, 2009 at 08:12 PM (#3238121)

David Aardsma has a 1.49 ERA?!?! Unpossible!

21. puck Posted: June 30, 2009 at 08:17 PM (#3238128)

#8: I wonder how many would vote for their sluggingest corner player.

22. The District Attorney Posted: June 30, 2009 at 08:19 PM (#3238130)

I don't see why this would be the case, except for the fewer team members. You could just keep the current voting rules and restrict the team to 18 players and poof, the worst player on the "new" team would be better than the worst player on the "old" team.

No, because... well, let's just work through an example... under the current system, one team's fans can swamp the ballot. So, Philly stuffs the ballot and gets Rollins elected as the SS. Right away, Rollins is worse than anyone who would be chosen by the James method. Let's say Howard and Ibanez, whom we'll stipulate are not literally the best players at their positions in the league, get elected too. Now you've got 15 spots left; if you do want the best at each position, you're going to have to double up at 1B, SS and RF, which would then probably make it impossible to fit in the best at other positions; and worst of all, you'd have 15 spots left and 15 teams that needed to be represented, so everyone other than the Rollins/Howard/Ibanez trio would have to be from a distinct franchise. Just cutting back to 18-man rosters without changing anything else would actually result in some godawful rosters, I think.

23. Kiko Sakata

Posted: June 30, 2009 at 08:23 PM (#3238132)

I wonder how many would vote for their sluggingest corner player.

I'd guess most. That system seems like inevitably at some point in the first couple of years you'd end up with no catchers and/or no shortstops and/or no second basemen and/or no starting pitchers or some other gaping hole in the fan votes even going down to 2nd and 3rd choices. And I would also echo the Jones's comments that I don't see how this improves the worst player on the All-Star team - the worst player on the All-Star team will almost always be his team's only representative and this system would seem to most likely keep that guy on the team.

24. Kiko Sakata

Posted: June 30, 2009 at 08:27 PM (#3238138)

You could just keep the current voting rules and restrict the team to 18 players

You'd have to either restrict the # of starters per team or eliminate the every-team-gets-a-rep rule. In the NL, an 18-player roster and 16 teams leaves you with exactly 2 discretionary choices.

25. Iwakuma Chameleon (jonathan) Posted: June 30, 2009 at 09:22 PM (#3238191)

Even more unlikely than Marco Scutaro turning into a super productive player is that one of those pitchers the A's got back, Graham Godfrey, actually doesn't look so bad.

His assessment that the A's don't deserve an all star is, sadly, entirely correct. My guess is Bailey will get the nod, though.

26. Dewey, Steven Wright Wannabe and Soupuss Posted: June 30, 2009 at 09:28 PM (#3238195)

I see that Verducci's firmly in the "All-Stars are the guys having the best first half" camp.

27. Rich Rifkin Posted: June 30, 2009 at 09:33 PM (#3238197)

Indeed, after picking 62 deserving All-Stars, I discovered five teams were shut out: the A’s, White Sox, Nationals, Cubs and Reds.

I haven't yet figured out my AL All-Star line-up. But for the NL, and not caring whether I have one player from each team or not (as Verducci did his), I have one Cub and one Red.

Brandon Phillips goes as my back-up 2B; and Ryan Theriot goes as my back-up SS (if I must pick a back-up SS in the NL). No single position on the NL team seems to have a big a drop-off from starter (Hanley Ramirez) to back-up as does shortstop. If I leave off Theriot, that makes room for a third stringer at 1B (Fielder), 3B (Sandoval) or a 7th outfielder (Werth or Cameron).

Now I'll take the time to RTFA and see what picks Verducci gets wrong.

28. Rich Rifkin Posted: June 30, 2009 at 09:41 PM (#3238202)

Verducci's mistakes in the NL (I won't bother to justify my opinion with stats, but my picks are based on my valuation of offensive and defensive contribution):

Catcher -- I take Russell Martin over Brian McCann;
Second -- I take Phillips over Sanchez or Hudson as Utley's reserve;
Short -- Theriot in place of Tejada as the back-up'
Third -- Zimmerman as the starter in place of Mark Reynolds entirely;
Outfield -- Kemp and Upton should be starters. I'd have Werth replace Hawpe;

I haven't gotten around to my pitchers, yet.

29. cardsfanboy

Posted: June 30, 2009 at 09:41 PM (#3238203)

I see that Verducci's firmly in the "All-Stars are the guys having the best first half" camp.

yep, it's a decision that I see repeated almost all the time, never have agreed with it, but sometimes a truly remarkable first half should be rewarded (If Mauer was was Miguel Olivo quality player prior to this season and does what he is doing, I would support him for a first half only vote, but most of the time I would prefer other criteria)

Everyone has their own argument for what should be an all star, and it seems almost everyone thinks their opinion is the right method.

30. Steve Treder Posted: June 30, 2009 at 09:44 PM (#3238205)

Everyone has their own argument for what should be an all star, and it seems almost everyone thinks their opinion is the right method.

Opinions are funny that way. :-)

Since the All-Star Game is held annually, probably the most appropriate stats to use for qualification would be those compiled since the last ASG: second half last year plus first half this year.

31. Tom Nawrocki Posted: June 30, 2009 at 09:46 PM (#3238206)

I see that Verducci's firmly in the "All-Stars are the guys having the best first half" camp.

Brandon Phillips goes as my back-up 2B; and Ryan Theriot goes as my back-up SS (if I must pick a back-up SS in the NL).

There is no way in the world to make the case that Theriot would be more deserving than Troy Tulowitzki.

32. Crispix Attacks Posted: June 30, 2009 at 09:46 PM (#3238207)

Pitcher: Tim Lincecum*, Matt Cain, Dan Haren, Josh Johnson, Yovani Gallardo, Chad Billingsley, Javier Vazquez, Ryan Franklin, Heath Bell, Jonathan Broxton, Trevor Hoffman, Rafael Soriano. Only one starting pitcher older than 28. And you thought the AL was light on lefties? Not a single lefty on the staff here. Sorry, Johan Santana.

Zach Duke perhaps? He's a lefty. He has 8 wins and a 3.13 ERA. 1.19 WHIP. Come on, man!

33. cardsfanboy

Posted: June 30, 2009 at 09:52 PM (#3238213)

Catcher -- I take Russell Martin over Brian McCann;

I could see the argument for Martin over Molina, but there is no way that if you apply any weight onto season so far numbers that McCann can be taken over Martin, the 80 ops+ vs 147 (and two year average 137 for McCann, vs Martins 98?) the defense cannot be that much of a difference.

Second -- I take Phillips over Sanchez or Hudson as Utley's reserve; debateable, I can see arguments for all three.

Short -- Theriot in place of Tejada as the back-up'Really? are they even close? I guess if you really think Tejadas defense is really that bad.

Third -- Zimmerman as the starter in place of Mark Reynolds entirely; agreed, they are close enough and Zimmerman is a better fielder.

Outfield -- Kemp and Upton should be starters. I'd have Werth replace Hawpe; tough call, see the arguments, not sure I agree, but to me what little I've seen of Hawpes defense makes me think he is a very bad defender, but it's still a large offensive difference for Werth to overcome.

34. cardsfanboy

Posted: June 30, 2009 at 09:58 PM (#3238217)

Since the All-Star Game is held annually, probably the most appropriate stats to use for qualification would be those compiled since the last ASG: second half last year plus first half this year.

outside of rookies or breakout years, that is the way I mostly go. I like to look since all star break, maybe adding a little more value for early part of this season and then factor in career, popularity and rareness (if a guy is not hof level talent but has a few all star games and his primary competition is a guy who has been good but no all star games I will probably go with the guy who has zero all star games)

to be honest there isn't a hard and fast rule that I would go by that would make my picks repeateable by a 'computer'.

35. cardsfanboy

Posted: June 30, 2009 at 10:00 PM (#3238218)

What makes it more annoying is his claim that he's basing this totally on some objective sense of "merit," as if Marco Scutaro's two great months obviously carry more merit than Derek Jeter's Hall of Fame career.

he had Jeter on the list, I'm not sure you mean, unless you are saying that Jeters hall of fame career automatically gets him in, no matter what.

36. Rich Rifkin Posted: June 30, 2009 at 10:23 PM (#3238230)

I could see the argument for Martin over Molina, but there is no way that if you apply any weight onto season so far numbers that McCann can be taken over Martin, the 80 ops+ vs 147 (and two year average 137 for McCann, vs Martins 98?) the defense cannot be that much of a difference.

Wow. What a dope I am. I misread my chicken scratch. I have McCann as my starter, easily. (I misread M##n.) Molina is the back-up.

Second -- I take Phillips over Sanchez or Hudson as Utley's reserve; debateable, I can see arguments for all three.

My take is that Hudson's defense (UZR) is a big negative. Sanchez and Phillips are about even in my book.

Short -- Theriot in place of Tejada as the back-up'Really? are they even close? I guess if you really think Tejadas defense is really that bad.

UZRs: Tejada -6.6; Theriot 4.9. I think an argument could be made for Bendan Ryan (too few innings played), based on his outstanding defense.

...what little I've seen of Hawpes defense makes me think he is a very bad defender, but it's still a large offensive difference for Werth to overcome.

UZRs: Hawpe -7.8; Werth 4.6.

37. Harveys Wallbangers

Posted: June 30, 2009 at 10:35 PM (#3238236)

I don't know how you leave off a Brian Roberts who leads the AL in doubles, is among the leaders in runs scored and is one heckuva player.

38. Harveys Wallbangers

Posted: June 30, 2009 at 10:39 PM (#3238241)

And if you asked me who was the best pitcher in the AL right NOW I would tell you John Lester and it ain't a close discussion.

But then anyone can have a hot month. 34 innings this June. 40 strikeouts. 6 walks. SIX.

39. Harveys Wallbangers

Posted: June 30, 2009 at 10:43 PM (#3238243)

Johnny Cueto doesn't even get a mention?

40. Srul Itza Posted: June 30, 2009 at 10:45 PM (#3238245)

Wow. What a dope I am. I misread my chicken scratch. I have McCann as my starter, easily.

Thank you for posting this, and saving me from making a meaningless pile-on post.

Molina leading McCann by so much in the actual voting is the only one that really annoys me. McCann deserves to go.

Which brings me to another pet peeve -- Chipper Jones has all of 6 ASG appearances. If anybody brings that up when it comes time to vote him into the HOF as a negative, I will go medieval on their ass.

41. cardsfanboy

Posted: June 30, 2009 at 10:50 PM (#3238250)

Molina leading McCann by so much in the actual voting is the only one that really annoys me. McCann deserves to go.
as I told a Braves fan, at least Molina is having a good season, it's not like Fukodome and Soriano last year or Rollins this year, guys who don't have an argument for being on the roster at all who are getting the votes, at least Molina is on the short list of all star catcher candidates (and yes I put McCann ahead of him)

Which brings me to another pet peeve -- Chipper Jones has all of 6 ASG appearances. If anybody brings that up when it comes time to vote him into the HOF as a negative, I will go medieval on their ass.

why would that be brought up as a negative? are you saying it's not enough for some people? Of course there isn't really a good argument against Chipper for the HOF anymore.

42. Forsch 10 From Navarone (Dayn)

Posted: June 30, 2009 at 10:54 PM (#3238253)

Chipper Jones has all of 6 ASG appearances.

I've never really understood why he gets screwed so consistently.

43. puck Posted: June 30, 2009 at 10:58 PM (#3238258)

There is no way in the world to make the case that Theriot would be more deserving than Troy Tulowitzki.

Fangraphs has them virtually tied in WAR, 1.8 to 1.7 (Tulo). I'm sure there's not enough precision in a half season of UZR to sort out all those shortstops, but there's at least some evidence.

I suppose that we're even discussing Tulo is a big win for Rockies fans. He wasn't looking too good on June 1st.

44. Crispix Attacks Posted: June 30, 2009 at 11:07 PM (#3238263)

I predict Theriot...I predict Theriot!

45. cardsfanboy

Posted: June 30, 2009 at 11:14 PM (#3238272)

I've never really understood why he gets screwed so consistently.

doesn't he usually have better second halves vs first halves? Chipper reminds me of those guys that is underlook even though they are a big name. He gets probably some of the anti-Braves backlash because of their dominance in the 90's.

46. RJ in TO Posted: July 01, 2009 at 12:01 AM (#3238312)

doesn't he usually have better second halves vs first halves? Chipper reminds me of those guys that is underlook even though they are a big name. He gets probably some of the anti-Braves backlash because of their dominance in the 90's.

First Half: 0.303/0.400/0.534
Second Half: 0.318/0.417/0.561

He's also got 200 more games in the first half, so it's not an injury thing either.

47. cardsfanboy

Posted: July 01, 2009 at 12:44 AM (#3238353)

starting in 2002, the first year in a while where he didn't make the all star game in 5 out of 6 previous seasons.

Chipper put up 1st half .307 .396 .454 .849
Chipper 2nd half .353 .483 .647 1.130

2003
1st half .289 .391 .497 .887
2nd half .325 .419 .544 .963

2004
1st half .214 .327 .414 .741
2nd half .278 .391 .548 .938

2005
1st half .282 .411 .513 .923
2nd half .307 .413 .589 1.002

2006
1st half .315 .403 .520 .923
2nd half .341 .421 .746 1.168

2007
1st half .329 .417 .594 1.011
2nd half .345 .433 .614 1.046

2008 (made all star team)
1st half .376 .472 .614 1.086
2nd half .340 .466 .489 .955

mind you many of those first halves were probably good enough, but they weren't Chipper good enough (I guess)

48. bumpis hound Posted: July 01, 2009 at 12:49 AM (#3238354)

I've never really understood why he gets screwed so consistently.

hooters?

Edit: best regards, bud

49. Ignatius J. Reilly Posted: July 01, 2009 at 01:03 AM (#3238365)

Great little tidbit from Verducci's article. McCann's backup, Dave Ross, has the 2nd highest VORP among NL catchers.

50. cardsfanboy

Posted: July 01, 2009 at 01:08 AM (#3238370)

Great little tidbit from Verducci's article. McCann's backup, Dave Ross, has the 2nd highest VORP among NL catchers.
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and that doesn't call into question the value of Vorp? 97 plate appearances gets the guy enough juice to surpass Yadier with 268 plate appearances at 92 ops+? (and this is coming from a guy that likes Vorp, but hate rate stats that are more or less trying to masquerade as counting stats)

51. Ignatius J. Reilly Posted: July 01, 2009 at 01:33 AM (#3238430)

I think it speaks to the fact how well Ross is hitting for a catcher.

52. cardsfanboy

Posted: July 01, 2009 at 01:39 AM (#3238434)

I think it speaks to the fact how well Ross is hitting for a catcher.

I don't agree, it's my problem with WPA also, if you have a counting stat then it should be an accumulating stat which Vorp obviously isn't but it portrays itself as a counting stat. It just doesn't make much sense for a guy with 47 total bases to be beating a guy with 98 total bases who is having an above average (for position) year.

53. Cod Guy Posted: July 01, 2009 at 01:59 AM (#3238469)

starting in 2002, the first year in a while where he didn't make the all star game in 5 out of 6 previous seasons.

[numbers]

mind you many of those first halves were probably good enough, but they weren't Chipper good enough (I guess)

I think that only in 1999 and in 2007 did Jones get undeservedly left off the all-star team. It happened in 1999 because Matt Williams had a good first half and because they needed Ed Sprague so that the Pirates would have someone.

In 2002 and 2003, he was an outfielder, so he faced tougher competition. In 2004, he moved to third in June, but he had a lousy first half. He was injured in the first half of 2005. I didn't remember what happened in 2006, but, looking it up, I see that NL third basemen just had great first halves in 2006.

54. Ignatius J. Reilly Posted: July 01, 2009 at 02:08 AM (#3238482)

It does when the guy with less playing time is having a superior rate-based season by a significant margin.

55. CFBF Hates Hyphens Posted: July 01, 2009 at 02:29 AM (#3238517)

because they needed Ed Sprague so that the Pirates would have someone.

Which they only needed because of Kendall's horrific injury.

Chipper didn't make the All Star Game for what was one of the greatest seasons for a third baseman in baseball history. Swell. Though that's actually an interesting question: how many league MVPs missed the All Star Game in the year they won the award?

56. Davo Malvolio Posted: July 01, 2009 at 02:39 AM (#3238540)

I love the "Every Team Needs a Representative" rule, just because it makes for cool trivia afterwards. This year, it seems like it's going to be even tougher than usual. Oakland has no candidates:

Oakland--- Dallas Braden (5-7, 3.26 era), Kurt Suzuki (102 OPS), Holliday (118). Yikes.

57. cardsfanboy

Posted: July 01, 2009 at 02:46 AM (#3238549)

I like the every team needs a representative but when combined with the player vote it makes it a lot tougher to create the best team (especially when the rules for player votes is so screwed up that they end up voting in guys who are probably not even close to the best choice---I mean almost every player is going to vote for Albert and since he'll win the fan vote the winner of the players vote is going to be someone that about 10 players may have voted for just because. At least McCann will easily win the players vote)

58. Blackadder Posted: July 01, 2009 at 02:52 AM (#3238567)

I'm surprised that more people don't base their voting on who they think is the best player, right now, at each position. Current season stats are relevant, of course, insofar as someone's performance over the half season influences one's belief about a player's true talent, but ultimately it it comes down to how good you think everyone is.

59. Harveys Wallbangers

Posted: July 01, 2009 at 02:55 AM (#3238574)

CF:

Robin Yount won the MVP in 1989 and didn't make the All-Star team.

60. cardsfanboy

Posted: July 01, 2009 at 03:06 AM (#3238604)

Pendleton in 1991....

61. Kurt Posted: July 01, 2009 at 03:07 AM (#3238605)

56- Bailey will be Oakland's rep.

62. Kiko Sakata

Posted: July 01, 2009 at 03:19 AM (#3238644)

how many league MVPs missed the All Star Game in the year they won the award?

Kirk Gibson was the NL MVP in 1988 and never made an All-Star game in his career.

63. cardsfanboy

Posted: July 01, 2009 at 03:28 AM (#3238675)

Kirk Gibson was the NL MVP in 1988 and never made an All-Star game in his career.
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Wow. I think I knew that but had forgotten it, is he one of the most famous ball players who never played in an all star game?
he's 201 on mvp shares, wonder if that is the highest of a player who never made the all star game?(not counting guys prior to the all star game of course)

64. Gaelan Posted: July 01, 2009 at 03:43 AM (#3238726)

Scott Rolen is a great, great, player. He should be on the all-star team and will be the best player not in the hall of fame once he gets snubbed.

65. Eric J is Financed by a Rich Grandpa Posted: July 01, 2009 at 04:12 AM (#3238759)

he's 201 on mvp shares, wonder if that is the highest of a player who never made the all star game?(not counting guys prior to the all star game of course)

Actually, the (modern) MVP and All-Star game were introduced at basically the same time, within a couple of years at least. Guys with fewer All-Star appearances than you'd expect...

Terry Pendleton was an All-Star once, despite having two top-2 MVP finishes.
Carlos Delgado has only been an All-Star twice.
Robin Yount, 2-time MVP, was only an All-Star 3 times. (George Bell was also a 3-timer, and actually drew more MVP support during his career than Yount. Which seems... odd.)
Juan Gonzalez also won 2 MVPs (including one in '96, when he wasn't an All-Star), ranks 42nd all-time in MVP shares, and was an All-Star only 3 times.
Hank Greenberg, 17th all-time in MVP shares, is a 4-time All-Star, and didn't make the game in one of his MVP seasons. (Actually, this doesn't look like it's that uncommon - Dave Parker and Willie Stargell did it in back-to-back seasons.)
Frank Thomas has 6 top-5 MVP finishes, but only 5 All-Star games. 13th in MVP shares.

I wasn't able to find anyone in the top 200 who didn't appear in an All-Star game, but I didn't check everyone.

66. cardsfanboy

Posted: July 01, 2009 at 05:04 AM (#3238774)

Actually, the (modern) MVP and All-Star game were introduced at basically the same time, within a couple of years at least. Guys with fewer All-Star appearances than you'd expect...

yes but MVP shares on baseball-reference.com isn't only based upon the modern MVP. Larry Doyle and a few others are included in those count

67. RJ in TO Posted: July 01, 2009 at 05:14 AM (#3238775)

Tim Salmon has got to be toward the top of the list for "Best player to never be selected as an All Star."

68. cardsfanboy

Posted: July 01, 2009 at 05:44 AM (#3238780)

Tim Salmon has got to be toward the top of the list for "Best player to never be selected as an All Star."

definately on the short list, I would say probably a little better overall than Kirk Gibson (and considering that Salmon won the ROY it's weird that he never made it to the All Star game) with basic research those seem to be the top of the lists(not counting pitchers)

69. Tripon Posted: July 01, 2009 at 05:56 AM (#3238783)

Yeah, but Kirk Gibson won a MVP. That's just weird.

70. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: July 01, 2009 at 06:40 AM (#3238788)

Hank Greenberg, 17th all-time in MVP shares, is a 4-time All-Star, and didn't make the game in one of his MVP seasons.

1935: Greenberg had 100 RBI at the break. The AL All-Stars were managed and selected by Greenberg's manager. And he didn't make the team, not even as a backup.

71. DCW3 Posted: July 01, 2009 at 07:03 AM (#3238789)

I don't agree, it's my problem with WPA also, if you have a counting stat then it should be an accumulating stat which Vorp obviously isn't but it portrays itself as a counting stat. It just doesn't make much sense for a guy with 47 total bases to be beating a guy with 98 total bases who is having an above average (for position) year.

Going into tonight's game, Molina had 171 more plate appearances than Ross on the year. If you added 171 PAs to Ross's line, he would need a .587 OPS over those PAs to get his overall OPS for the year down to Molina's level, and a .587 OPS is surely below replacement-level, even for a catcher. (Jason Kendall, dead last among NL catchers in VORP at -5.6, has a .598 OPS.) It makes perfect sense.

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Tuesday, June 30, 2009

Verducci: My All-Star team: Youth is served and popularity means nothing

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