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Sunday, April 20, 2014

VIDEO: Brewers, Pirates brawl after Carlos Gomez triple

Dukes! Snider!

Brewers center fielder Carlos Gomez hit what he apparently thought was a home run and it actually ended up being a triple. Pirates starter Gerrit Cole didn’t appear to appreciate how Gomez reacted and told him so. And it was, as they say, on:

Repoz Posted: April 20, 2014 at 03:17 PM | 133 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: brawl

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   1.   Posted: April 20, 2014 at 03:36 PM (#4689727)
Babies. Babies are ruining baseball.
   2. Brian White Posted: April 20, 2014 at 03:38 PM (#4689729)
Carlos Gomez probably thought it was safe to pull these kind of show-off moves now that Brian McCann is in the other league.

Carlos Gomez thought wrong.
   3. TDF, situational idiot Posted: April 20, 2014 at 03:39 PM (#4689730)
Have pitchers always gotten so upset about being "shown up"? Gomez hit the ball a very long way and flipped his bat; so what?

If you don't want batters to "disrespect" you, pitch better.
   4. Dale Sams Posted: April 20, 2014 at 03:52 PM (#4689742)
I detest Gomez...but what's the GD problem Cole?? The bat flip? It was hardly anything. He didn't run hard? YOU DON'T WANT HIM TO RUN HARD MORON.
   5. JE (Jason) Posted: April 20, 2014 at 03:52 PM (#4689743)
So what did Snider say that McCann didn't prompting Gomez to throw a punch?
   6. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: April 20, 2014 at 03:54 PM (#4689745)
If you don't want batters to "disrespect" you, pitch better.


This.

I also feel that there's likely an unaddressed race thing going on here that nobody wants to acknowledge. The umbrage-takers always seem to be white dudes, and the alleged offenders are often dudes of color.
   7. dejarouehg Posted: April 20, 2014 at 04:03 PM (#4689751)
I also feel that there's likely an unaddressed race thing going on here that nobody wants to acknowledge
This has been the case forever between Latin players and white players, especially Latin pitchers vs. white players. The Piazza-Mota flare-up years ago was definitely amped up based on race. Mets players were furious that another cowardly Latin pitcher went head-hunting and so few of them ever came to bat to have to worry aout retaliation.

There is also the obvious culture clash between suburban, white baseball and latin/urban baseball.
   8. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 20, 2014 at 04:03 PM (#4689753)
3 things:

1. I thought Gomez had it coming in the McCann incident as he was way over the line.
2. Nothing he did here looked bad at all. I have no idea what Cole is all riled up about. It's dumb.
3. That said, whatever Cole said to him it doesn't give Gomez the right to start throwing haymakers. A 5 to 10 game suspension deosn't help your team, Carlos. He really has a problem with his temper.

I also feel that there's likely an unaddressed race thing going on here that nobody wants to acknowledge. The umbrage-takers always seem to be white dudes, and the alleged offenders are often dudes of color.

This seems very possible.
   9. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: April 20, 2014 at 04:04 PM (#4689754)
I'm just glad none of the horsies got hurt.
   10. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 20, 2014 at 04:05 PM (#4689755)
There is also the obvious culture clash between suburban, white baseball and latin/urban baseball.

Comprised of what, exactly? What are the cultures and how do they clash?
   11. Barnaby Jones Posted: April 20, 2014 at 04:06 PM (#4689757)
Have pitchers always gotten so upset about being "shown up"?


Um, yes...? In ages past, Carlos Gomez would probably be getting baseballs in the face rather than mere words.

Babies. Babies are ruining baseball.


For the life of me, I don't get why people here feel compelled to race to the top of the high horse after every fight or any time a player gets upset. We get it; we here at BBTF are all super mature and definitely would never get upset in a similar situation because we are not babies. Hurray us.

Personally, I think baseball fights are awesome. People talk about the great ones for years, and they are a proud-ish part of the games tradition.
   12. Barnaby Jones Posted: April 20, 2014 at 04:10 PM (#4689758)
The umbrage-takers always seem to be white dudes, and the alleged offenders are often dudes of color.


Bo Porter thinks you aren't playing the race card the right way.
   13. My guest will be Jermaine Allensworth Posted: April 20, 2014 at 04:18 PM (#4689760)
Not sure what Gomez is trying to accomplish.

If he didn't mind getting under the skin of his opponents, he'd be awesome at it. But throwing the first punches of a brawl suggest otherwise.

He doesn't seem to like when his attention-drawing actions draw attention.
   14.   Posted: April 20, 2014 at 04:27 PM (#4689764)
For the life of me, I don't get why people here feel compelled to race to the top of the high horse after every fight or any time a player gets upset. We get it; we here at BBTF are all super mature and definitely would never get upset in a similar situation because we are not babies. Hurray


Because watching overgrown millionaire children throw temper tantrums when someone looks at them the wrong way is annoying to me. Just play the ####### game.

Hurray, me!

Personally, I think baseball fights are awesome.


Hurray, you!
   15. DKDC Posted: April 20, 2014 at 04:31 PM (#4689767)
Looks like suspensions/fines will be coming for some players from both teams.

This whole silliness could've been avoided with an ounce of maturity/IQ on the part of either Gomez or the Pirate player in the jacket who got Gomez all riled up just when it was calming down. Cole is an idiot for yapping at Gomez, but at least he had the sense to let himself get led away.
   16. Dale Sams Posted: April 20, 2014 at 04:36 PM (#4689768)
Bo Porter thinks you aren't playing the race card the right way.


Pedro Martinez and Bob Gibson would also like to add their two cents*

*Admittedly, with Pedro it's just cause he feels like it, and with Bob no one has to actually say "Play the game the right way". It's Bob's way or a ticket to Concussion City...one way.
   17. PreservedFish Posted: April 20, 2014 at 05:13 PM (#4689785)
If you don't want batters to "disrespect" you, pitch better.


This might work as a motivational tactic but it's not much of an argument to me. Any pitcher, no matter how good, will give up hard hits.
   18. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: April 20, 2014 at 05:27 PM (#4689789)
This isn't new. In the good ol days the pitcher would stick one in the guys ear next time up. That's frowned upon now so people bark at each other and nothing much happens. I promise you Bob Gibson would've been just as irked as Gerrit Cole but he would have used a 95 mph fastball to the ribs as revenge rather than a good talking to.
   19. TDF, situational idiot Posted: April 20, 2014 at 05:30 PM (#4689791)
This might work as a motivational tactic but it's not much of an argument to me. Any pitcher, no matter how good, will give up hard hits.
Then don't act like a 12 year old when it does happen.
   20. PreservedFish Posted: April 20, 2014 at 05:32 PM (#4689792)
I also feel that there's likely an unaddressed race thing going on here that nobody wants to acknowledge. The umbrage-takers always seem to be white dudes, and the alleged offenders are often dudes of color.

White American athletes are kind of the puritans of the athletic world, aren't they? I know that in soccer they have a reputation for not faking injuries ... which is commendable, if deleterious to their efforts.
   21. TDF, situational idiot Posted: April 20, 2014 at 05:52 PM (#4689809)
This isn't new. In the good ol days the pitcher would stick one in the guys ear next time up. That's frowned upon now so people bark at each other and nothing much happens. I promise you Bob Gibson would've been just as irked as Gerrit Cole but he would have used a 95 mph fastball to the ribs as revenge rather than a good talking to.
So what is acceptable batter's revenge for Valverde putting on a Broadway musical after every strikeout? Why is showboating OK for pitchers but not for hitters?
   22. Dudefella Posted: April 20, 2014 at 05:52 PM (#4689810)
So Cole thinks that Gomez should've booked it out of the box instead of admiring a little bit.

In which case Gomez would've had an inside the park HR.

And that would be better?
   23. Xander Posted: April 20, 2014 at 05:52 PM (#4689811)
We live in a Culture of Perceived Slights.
   24. jacjacatk Posted: April 20, 2014 at 05:53 PM (#4689813)
I promise you Bob Gibson would've been just as irked as Gerrit Cole but he would have used a 95 mph fastball to the ribs as revenge rather than a good talking to.


Gibson hit roughly 6 of every 1000 batters he faced. Cole hits more than that. Jamey Wright hits 3 times that many. Don Drysdale hit not quite twice as many, Pedro and Randy Johnson hit slightly more.

To the extent there are (or were) actual headhunters in MLB (and I think it's overblown) Gibson wasn't one. Of course, being known as one while not actually being one is probably an advantage, and Gibson always seemed like a smart guy to me.
   25. dejarouehg Posted: April 20, 2014 at 06:04 PM (#4689817)
Joe Magraine on MLB Network just equated Gomez swinging his helmut at Pirates to Marichal swinging his bat at Roseboro. There is some perspective!
   26. dejarouehg Posted: April 20, 2014 at 06:06 PM (#4689819)
Of course, being known as one while not actually being one is probably an advantage, and Gibson always seemed like a smart guy to me.
Imagine if the opponents were aware how bad Gibson's eyesight actually was.
   27. Chris Fluit Posted: April 20, 2014 at 06:27 PM (#4689824)
If he didn't mind getting under the skin of his opponents, he'd be awesome at it. But throwing the first punches of a brawl suggest otherwise.

He doesn't seem to like when his attention-drawing actions draw attention.


This.

I have no problem with Cole here. He didn't like how Gomez watched a big drive and barked about it after covering the play at third base. (I also don't have a problem with Gomez flipping the bat after the big drive but I will note that the drive didn't actually leave the park so it was a little premature). In any case, it was just words.

Gomez is the one who pulled off his batting helmet and stormed off the base for a couple of steps. That's what escalated this from a couple of opposing players yipping at each other to everyone clearing the benches.
   28. Chris Fluit Posted: April 20, 2014 at 06:36 PM (#4689830)

Gomez: That hit was awesome! I'm awesome! Oh shoot, that didn't go out of the park, I better run.

Cole: You poopyhead. I'm mad at you for hitting that ball hard and making me look bad. Oh, and for not running right away.

Gomez: How dare you get mad at me? You're not supposed to get mad at me. I'm mad at you and I'm going to punch whoever is standing close by to prove it.

Cole: I think I'll walk away and let other people handle this.
   29. valuearbitrageur Posted: April 20, 2014 at 06:43 PM (#4689834)
1. I thought Gomez had it coming in the McCann incident as he was way over the line.


I love when rape logic is used in sporting events.
   30. Barnaby Jones Posted: April 20, 2014 at 06:47 PM (#4689839)
I love when rape logic is used in sporting events.


This is the worst comment in BBTF history.
   31.   Posted: April 20, 2014 at 06:47 PM (#4689840)
This isn't new. In the good ol days the pitcher would stick one in the guys ear next time up. That's frowned upon now so people bark at each other and nothing much happens. I promise you Bob Gibson would've been just as irked as Gerrit Cole but he would have used a 95 mph fastball to the ribs as revenge rather than a good talking to.


Yeah, yeah, we all know about the legendary Bob Gibson, who is #1 all time with 10,000 hit batsmen and has instilled a mandate to have his name invoked after every brawl.
   32. valuearbitrageur Posted: April 20, 2014 at 06:52 PM (#4689843)
This is the worst comment in BBTF history


I apologize, on second thought McCann was perfectly justified. Gomez was asking for it worse than a college girl in a short skirt. You wouldn't let a college girl traipse through your office in a short skirt, would you?
   33. Greg Pope thinks the Cubs are reeking havoc Posted: April 20, 2014 at 06:54 PM (#4689844)
If you don't want batters to "disrespect" you, pitch better.

This.

Not this. Getting a hit off of a pitcher does not give you the right to act like an ass. You are allowed to have opinions on how the game should be played, no matter how good you are. Now, throwing a fit about it is probably not the right way to express your opinion. And it doesn't look like Gomez really did anything worth yelling about.

But saying that a player who gets a hit or a team that wins a game should be able to do whatever they want is ridiculous.
   34. Dale Sams Posted: April 20, 2014 at 07:25 PM (#4689858)
This is the worst comment in BBTF history

I apologize, on second thought McCann was perfectly justified. Gomez was asking for it worse than a college girl in a short skirt. You wouldn't let a college girl traipse through your office in a short skirt, would you?


If this isn't proof that the comments nowadays are juiced, I don't know what is. Fruit flies live longer than records these days.
   35. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 20, 2014 at 07:25 PM (#4689859)
. . .we here at BBTF are all super mature and definitely would never get upset in a similar situation because we are not babies.

You must be new. Welcome aboard.
   36. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: April 20, 2014 at 07:26 PM (#4689861)
Maybe I'm reading this scrum the wrong way, but does Gomez seem to lose his mind way more than Cole? Cole just seems to call Gomez an idiot or something and moves on, while Gomez just freaks the heck out like a crazy person. I would think a "next time run the bases, you idiot" wouldn't be wildly out of line.
   37. RMc's desperate, often sordid world Posted: April 20, 2014 at 07:29 PM (#4689864)
You wouldn't let a college girl traipse through your office in a short skirt, would you?


I'd hate to see a college boy doing that.
   38. Dale Sams Posted: April 20, 2014 at 07:29 PM (#4689865)
Nothing about the bench guy who destroyed that reliever's face?
   39. Chris Fluit Posted: April 20, 2014 at 07:46 PM (#4689876)
Maybe I'm reading this scrum the wrong way, but does Gomez seem to lose his mind way more than Cole? Cole just seems to call Gomez an idiot or something and moves on, while Gomez just freaks the heck out like a crazy person. I would think a "next time run the bases, you idiot" wouldn't be wildly out of line.


That's how it looked to me too.
   40. JE (Jason) Posted: April 20, 2014 at 07:51 PM (#4689878)
I would think a "next time run the bases, you idiot" wouldn't be wildly out of line.

It was mentioned upstream but I'll repeat the point: Why did Cole feel the need to jaw at Gomez? If anything, he should have thanked him profusely for not hustling on what might have been an inside-the-park home run. (Heck, the Brewers didn't even score that inning.)
   41. Mike Emeigh Posted: April 20, 2014 at 07:53 PM (#4689880)
Nothing about the bench guy who destroyed that reliever's face?


Martin Maldonado, who is already on the Pirates' list after spiking Jordy Mercer in Saturday's game.

-- MWE
   42. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 20, 2014 at 07:56 PM (#4689884)
the weird thing is that if gomez does his usual of running right away he likely gets an inside the park homer

for those not aware gomez newborn child was diagnosed with hip dysplasia which led to frantic calls from his wife until the docs calmed her down

No excuse for gomez acting like a twit and he will get suspended and deservedly so

I share the above because it may have been caused gomez to be more emotional than usual

And I don't understand people who dislike a Carlos gomez. Guy failed repeatedly but kept at it and is now a really good player albeit flawed. Plays great defense, hustles and really enjoys playing

If you don't like watching a Carlos gomez I don't know why such a person watches baseball

   43. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: April 20, 2014 at 07:58 PM (#4689890)
Martin Maldonado, who is already on the Pirates' list after spiking Jordy Mercer in Saturday's game.


And he's already on Rawlings' #### list.

   44. Bug Selig Posted: April 20, 2014 at 07:58 PM (#4689891)
I also feel that there's likely an unaddressed race thing going on here that nobody wants to acknowledge. The umbrage-takers always seem to be white dudes, and the alleged offenders are often dudes of color.


I feel like I just watched a dude of color totally lose his mind.
   45. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 20, 2014 at 08:03 PM (#4689894)
Mike

MM slid through the bag

Your post makes it sound like Martin was Ty Cobb
   46. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 20, 2014 at 08:08 PM (#4689897)
Again, not defending gomez but who was it on the pirates in a jacket who raced out of the dugout to yell at gomez? That was what triggered his out of control response

Was that snider?
   47. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: April 20, 2014 at 08:09 PM (#4689898)
I also feel that there's likely an unaddressed race thing going on here that nobody wants to acknowledge. The umbrage-takers always seem to be white dudes, and the alleged offenders are often dudes of color.


I find white people in general tend to be a little more uptight about the unwritten (and written) rules and who's breaking those rules.
   48. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 20, 2014 at 08:11 PM (#4689899)
ells

A little bit?

Ha, ha
   49.   Posted: April 20, 2014 at 08:12 PM (#4689900)
If you don't like watching a Carlos gomez I don't know why such a person watches baseball


Nowadays you're not supposed to have fun, or look like you're having fun, or show any sort of happiness/joy.
   50. pep21 Posted: April 20, 2014 at 08:19 PM (#4689906)
I'm a Bucs fan and for the life of I don't understand why the brewers 3rd base coach didn't restrain Gomez. The umpire held him back until the team came out of the dugout. He may have prevented Gomez from being tossed. Travis Snider got in Gomez' face while the ump was between them and that's where the fight started. If you look at the video the coach actual walks Cole back to the mound away from the scrum.

   51. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 20, 2014 at 08:49 PM (#4689926)
I mostly like Gomez, Harv, but he was out of line today.
   52. Pirate Joe Posted: April 20, 2014 at 08:56 PM (#4689930)
Mike

MM slid through the bag

Your post makes it sound like Martin was Ty Cobb



Is it possible to watch that play and not think that Maldonado went after Mercer on purpose? He slid way past the base with his feet up off the ground. For the soccer fans out there, he would have gotten a straight red card if he did that to someone, and no one would have had a word of complaint.

   53. Bug Selig Posted: April 20, 2014 at 09:03 PM (#4689932)
What leaps out of the video for me is the Brewers 3B coach almost immediately getting Cole the F out of Dodge. He seems almost unconcerned with Gomez, the jacketed red-ass mentioned in 46, or anyone else. His whole manner is "Hey, young fella. Let's get you out of here before it gets ugly."
   54. Shibal Posted: April 20, 2014 at 09:07 PM (#4689935)
Car-Go needs to learn the Baseball Primer way of arguing with a white guy. Just call him a racist and declare yourself to be the most perfect man on earth.

No need to throw any punches.
   55. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: April 20, 2014 at 09:12 PM (#4689937)
I don't think his watching the ball ultimately cost him anything, other than a slide. It took him about 14 seconds to get from home to third, and he went in a little ahead of the throw. It took him six seconds to get from home to first, at most two seconds more than he otherwise would have taken. Those two extra seconds wouldn't have been enough to get him home.
   56. Padraic Posted: April 20, 2014 at 09:12 PM (#4689939)

I also feel that there's likely an unaddressed race thing going on here that nobody wants to acknowledge. The umbrage-takers always seem to be white dudes, and the alleged offenders are often dudes of color.


I think the problem is just white dudes. Clemens/Piazza, or Ryan/Ventura. I'm sure it exists, but can anyone think of a major brawl between two hispanic, or black, players? Or any major beef that did not involve a white player?

Edit: or kinda what #47 said.
   57. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: April 20, 2014 at 09:16 PM (#4689941)
I'm sure it exists, but can anyone think of a major brawl between two hispanic, or black, players? Or any major beef that did not involve a white player?


One of the beefiest - Marichal-Roseboro.
   58. Padraic Posted: April 20, 2014 at 09:26 PM (#4689948)
And looking up that clip gets me Martinez v. Hayes! I guess I should have learned from reading The Baseball Codes that pretty much everyone gets involved in this stuff.
   59. Random Transaction Generator Posted: April 20, 2014 at 09:32 PM (#4689950)
I'm sure it exists, but can anyone think of a major brawl between two hispanic, or black, players? Or any major beef that did not involve a white player?


Pedro Martinez vs Karim ("Who?") Garcia
   60. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: April 20, 2014 at 09:34 PM (#4689951)
Maybe I'm reading this scrum the wrong way, but does Gomez seem to lose his mind way more than Cole?


Despite having provoked the race discussion, I have to say that it seems like there's a high chance that Gomez is a certifiable psycho. I felt that McCann was in the wrong in last season's dustup, and I think that Cole should probably be less of a tiny-penis butthead about this one, but at the same time if you are involved in weird fights with some regularity there might be something wrong with how you react to stuff.

I'm sure it exists, but can anyone think of a major brawl between two hispanic, or black, players?


Pedro v Gerald Williams, aka the weirdest beanball war of all time.
   61. Shibal Posted: April 20, 2014 at 09:38 PM (#4689956)
Try watching a few Mexican League baseball games, plenty of extra-curricular action there. Though that might drop off now that Jose Offerman has been fired.
   62. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: April 20, 2014 at 09:58 PM (#4689964)
Pedro v Gerald Williams, aka the weirdest beanball war of all time.


What about Pedro v Reggie Sanders, when Reggie charged the mound after an HBP delivered while Martinez was throwing a perfect game?

That being said, in the non-beanball division, I can't think of any "play the game the right way incident" that didn't involve a white guy in the role of the aggrieved party. I'm sure there have been some, but it does seem like pale guys are the ones most likely to take offense at a violation of the unwritten rules.
   63. GuyMcGuffin Posted: April 20, 2014 at 10:09 PM (#4689965)
Upon seeing the footage of the incident, Matt Williams has decided to bench Bryce Harper for tomorrow in order to send a message to the Nationals.
   64. JE (Jason) Posted: April 20, 2014 at 10:10 PM (#4689966)
OK, so how about a MLB brawl between players of color over the past quarter-century *not* involving Pedro?
   65. vivaelpujols Posted: April 20, 2014 at 10:11 PM (#4689967)
I'm sure it exists, but can anyone think of a major brawl between two hispanic, or black, players? Or any major beef that did not involve a white player?


Yadi Molina - Brandon Phillips. And Cueto was the ####### who kicked in a white guys head.
   66. vivaelpujols Posted: April 20, 2014 at 10:13 PM (#4689968)
racism - only ok if directed towards white people.
   67. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: April 20, 2014 at 10:13 PM (#4689969)
Yadi Molina - Brandon Phillips.


Good one. And it differs in type from both the HBP-triggered brawl and the Unwritten Rulebreaking set-to.

   68. Shibal Posted: April 20, 2014 at 10:18 PM (#4689971)
Has a Japanese player ever been involved in a brawl?

   69. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: April 20, 2014 at 10:24 PM (#4689974)
Pitchers are the biggest ####### pussies in all of sport.
   70. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: April 20, 2014 at 10:25 PM (#4689976)
Has a Japanese player ever been involved in a brawl?


Iwamura was involved in the Coco vs. the Rays scrum, both in the precipitaing incident (he blocked second on a SB attempt by Coco one inning, which Crisp responded to by taking him out with a hard-slide later in the game) and the brawl itself. When James Shields drilled Coco the following night, Akinori was an active participant in the goings-on at the mound.
   71. Bhaakon Posted: April 20, 2014 at 10:31 PM (#4689981)
What about Pedro v Reggie Sanders, when Reggie charged the mound after an HBP delivered while Martinez was throwing a perfect game?


Seems like the perfect time to charge the mound to me. Bait the pitcher into throwing a punch and getting tossed.

I think the problem is just white dudes. Clemens/Piazza, or Ryan/Ventura. I'm sure it exists, but can anyone think of a major brawl between two hispanic, or black, players? Or any major beef that did not involve a white player?


Around 63% of all MLB baseball players are white, and that number is more like 70% for pitchers. Given that these flaps tend to be batter vs. pitcher, and pitchers tend the be the party that feels slighted, the odds are in favor of a white guy getting ticked off in any such situation even without any racial/cultural/ethnic tensions.
   72. The District Attorney Posted: April 20, 2014 at 10:33 PM (#4689983)
Has a Japanese player ever been involved in a brawl?
Not yet, but they're going to do something, and you know it's gonna be good!
   73. Sweatpants Posted: April 20, 2014 at 10:39 PM (#4689989)
Has a Japanese player ever been involved in a brawl?
Yes.
   74. Walt Davis Posted: April 20, 2014 at 10:50 PM (#4689994)
Folks, we don't know what Cole said ... we don't know what the Pirate who came out of the dugout said.

Now it's possible that Gomez is the next Milton Bradley. But when I have seen a guy go from annoyed to nuts in a half-second based only on words, those words generally relate to the guy's race/ethnicity, his mother/wife/child or his manhood.

If all that was said was "run next time MFer" then Gomez was way out of line. If something more personal was said then I'll cut him at least a little slack.
   75. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: April 20, 2014 at 10:57 PM (#4689998)
Folks, we don't know what Cole said ... we don't know what the Pirate who came out of the dugout said.


FWIW:


Cole said he told Gomez: "If you're going to hit it out of the ballpark, then you can stop and look at it. But it you're going to hit just a fly ball to center field, then don't stand and look at it."

That didn't sit well with Gomez. He took a couple steps toward Cole and the benches and bullpens emptied.

"Everything had stopped," Gomez said. "He told me something, I told him back, then I talked to the umpire. Then Snider came like a superhero, trying to throw punches at everybody. I just tried to protect myself."


Interestingly, Gomez said he didn't run not because he thought he hit it out, but because he thought it was going to be caught, which is actually a less defensible reason for not running. Of course, his decision not to run is one Ron Roenicke, not Gerrit Cole, should be concerned about.
   76. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: April 20, 2014 at 10:57 PM (#4689999)
I'm with Walt in 74. I hadn't seen the video until a little while ago but Gomez was unhinged. Like Walt says if it was something personal that would explain it but man he lost his ####.
   77. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: April 20, 2014 at 11:14 PM (#4690001)
Cole said he told Gomez: "If you're going to hit it out of the ballpark, then you can stop and look at it. But it you're going to hit just a fly ball to center field, then don't stand and look at it."


Cole also claimed to follow that profanity-free advice with this: "You see what happens, Carlos? You see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?!"

   78. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: April 20, 2014 at 11:27 PM (#4690004)
racism - only ok if directed towards white people


Sure. That is totally the message you should take away from this discussion.
   79. Bruce Markusen Posted: April 20, 2014 at 11:41 PM (#4690007)
Probably the most famous brawl in baseball history (or at least of the expansion era) involved a Latino (Marichal) and an African-American (Roseboro).

At the time, Marichal was largely seen as the villain, but that view has tempered over time as Roseboro eventually admitted to deliberately grazing Marichal's ear with a return throw to the pitcher. I'd say that Marichal is still given the majority of the blame, but historians now believe that Roseboro should share in the responsibility.
   80.   Posted: April 21, 2014 at 12:07 AM (#4690012)
Around 63% of all MLB baseball players are white, and that number is more like 70% for pitchers. Given that these flaps tend to be batter vs. pitcher, and pitchers tend the be the party that feels slighted, the odds are in favor of a white guy getting ticked off in any such situation even without any racial/cultural/ethnic tensions.


Maybe, but there still seems to be a semblance of "play the game the white way" in a lot of these.
   81. Walt Davis Posted: April 21, 2014 at 12:45 AM (#4690021)
Cole said he told Gomez: "If you're going to hit it out of the ballpark, then you can stop and look at it. But it you're going to hit just a fly ball to center field, then don't stand and look at it."

What, is he the FedEx guy? Cuz it didn't seem to me like he spoke to Carlos for 30 seconds.

(Man, ya gotta be old to remember that one.)

On a different topic, I always liked those gold Pirate caps (not the bumblebee ones).
   82. PreservedFish Posted: April 21, 2014 at 01:22 AM (#4690035)
Somewhere in this thread we lost the distinction between normal conflicts and conflicts that are begun when one player's sense of sportsmanship has apparently been offended.
   83. LionoftheSenate (Brewers v A's World Series) Posted: April 21, 2014 at 01:24 AM (#4690036)
Gomez is a great player to watch. He's suddenly the third best player in the game too.
   84. Pat Rapper's Delight Posted: April 21, 2014 at 01:39 AM (#4690040)
Has a Japanese player ever been involved in a brawl?

Mr. Pogo and Mitsuhiro Matsunaga swing a barbed wire baseball bat like they've stood in the box a few times before. Pogo throws quite the fireball at the end of this carnage too.
   85. Barnaby Jones Posted: April 21, 2014 at 02:59 AM (#4690043)
That being said, in the non-beanball division, I can't think of any "play the game the right way incident" that didn't involve a white guy in the role of the aggrieved party. I'm sure there have been some, but it does seem like pale guys are the ones most likely to take offense at a violation of the unwritten rules.


Again, literally this week: Bo Porter. It's still on the Front Page here.

I remember last year Terry Pendleton accosted Chris Johnson in the dugout because the latter threw his helmet. And when Pendleton was a player, he once walked off the field because Marvin Freeman refused to retaliate and throw a beanball.

Folks, we don't know what Cole said ... we don't know what the Pirate who came out of the dugout said.


We may not know everything that was said, but in the video you can hear Cole speaking, and it sounds like he's taunting him to the effect of "that's why you run, idiot."
   86. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 21, 2014 at 05:46 AM (#4690044)
Carlos gomez has been in the majors since 2007

which is more likely:

that a tenured pro known for his energetic style and passion with a lot on his mind (see above post concerning his child) is caught off guard by someone ELSE initiating a confrontation and after some degree of jawing another third party escalates the situation further (snider) and then Gomez responds out of proportion

OR

Carlos Gomez is a loon

I suspect it's the former

And why Cole pouting over another player's play is getting no attention here is puzzling. None of this happens if Cole concerns himself with his performance and not others

Again, Carlos deserves a suspension. So anyone accusing me of bias can go pound sand

   87. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 21, 2014 at 06:03 AM (#4690046)
And why Cole pouting over another player's play is getting no attention here is puzzling.


It's kind of a dick move, but it's not really unusual for a pitcher to do something like that. Whereas a runner on third base walking over and throwing a punch is a bit more novel (and responsible for most of the escalation in the situation).
   88. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 21, 2014 at 06:21 AM (#4690047)
vlad

The game had better video and jibes with gomez' words on how he didn't lose it until snider showed up

So give Cole a pass if you wish but then what about Snider?
   89. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 21, 2014 at 06:28 AM (#4690049)
Other great moments in non-white baseball fights:

* Rod Allen charges the mound against Kazuhiko Daimon and chases him all around the field.
* Izzy Alcantara kicks Jeremy Salazar and then charges Blas Cedeno.

Is Jeff Salazar caucasian, or Hispanic? Salazar is a Basque name, but he's from Oklahoma, and photo evidence is inconclusive. Either way, him getting KTFO at second base in the LMP is a pretty underrated brawl.
   90. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 21, 2014 at 06:34 AM (#4690050)
So give Cole a pass if you wish but then what about Snider?


Whatever Snider said obviously didn't help, but if he's the guy that I think he is in the video, it looked like he was trying to get between Gomez and his pitcher. That's a pretty understandable reaction, given the direction the situation was heading.

He did throw some punches, so he'll probably get (and deserve) a suspension, though I think Gomez's should be a bit longer since he was the first one to go from words to actual violence.
   91. Barnaby Jones Posted: April 21, 2014 at 06:57 AM (#4690052)
Harvey, people in this thread have been criticizing Cole. Much more than is warranted, in my opinion. A pitcher telling a player he should "f'ing run" is about as mundane an infraction as I can imagine.

I think people would be less likely to question Gomez's mental stability if this was the first time he did something like this.

Snider was rightly ejected, but in the many replays I didn't see him do anything that warranted Gomez throwing a punch. Maybe he said something rather untoward.
   92. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 21, 2014 at 07:58 AM (#4690059)
Bj

Not the first time doing what? Reacting to some uptight, holier than thou opposing player?

   93. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 21, 2014 at 08:03 AM (#4690061)
the brewers endured more Sammy Sosa heel clicks than anyone. Don't recall Ben sheets getting his knickers in a bind

gomez will be suspended for 3-5 games for his loss of control

But Cole and more so snider aided and abetted
   94. flournoy Posted: April 21, 2014 at 08:14 AM (#4690064)
Not the first time doing what? Reacting to some uptight, holier than thou opposing player?


Do you remember what happened in the incident versus the Braves before McCann stood in front of home plate?
   95. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 21, 2014 at 08:17 AM (#4690065)
Not the first time doing what? Reacting to some uptight, holier than thou opposing player?

Harveys, if this had happened in a different context, Gomez would be arrested. I've had plenty of heated exchanges with co-workers in my career, some of them involving many heated f-bombs, but it didn't give me or the other part carte blanche to start throwing punches or swinging batting helmets at peoples' heads. Gomez' behavior to Cole's ############# is completely unacceptable. Gomez is a fun player, but he needs to stop having temper tantrums as if he was 8 years old.
   96. mrmacro Posted: April 21, 2014 at 08:20 AM (#4690066)
Mitigating circumstances or no, if Gomez is incapable of remaining on the bag with his helmet on when someone says something to him, he has a problem. Chit-chat is really quite common in most other sports, so why it necessitates a physical reaction in baseball is bemusing.
   97. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: April 21, 2014 at 08:20 AM (#4690067)
Whether he is right or wrong Gomez is going to need to learn not to respond. Teams are going to start using this kind of thing to get into his head and get him ejected from games and he's too talented and important to the Brewers to let that happen.
   98. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 21, 2014 at 08:21 AM (#4690069)
Post 94

As I offered at the time there was history between gomez and that pitcher

McCann misunderstood gomez reaction and made it a "situation"

And for the sake of discussion assuming gomez did initiate the braves incident 2 events generate a rep?

versus 8 years in the pros turning himself from a failed touted prospect almost out of the league into a tremendous player?

that strikes me as more than a bit odd
   99. JE (Jason) Posted: April 21, 2014 at 08:23 AM (#4690070)
I've had plenty of heated exchanges with co-workers in my career, some of them involving many heated f-bombs, but it didn't give me or the other part carte blanche to start throwing punches or swinging batting helmets at peoples' heads.

Just curious: Were the co-workers yelling at you to quit chatting about last night's GoT episode and just pour the coffee already? :)
   100. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 21, 2014 at 08:24 AM (#4690071)
Post 97

Agreed

Ron created the environment to help Gomez succeed. Now he needs to get him focussed on continuing to succeed
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