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Tuesday, April 24, 2018

VIDEO: Rockies Announcers Sound Like Complete Idiots Talking About Javier Baez

The Chicago Cubs beat the Colorado Rockies 9-7 to win the weekend series on the road and it was quite an interesting finale on Sunday afternoon. Several weird events transpired, including Javier Baez trying to block DJ LeMahieu’s view at second base that drew the ire of the Rockies broadcast team.

Javy is fun.

Meatwad Posted: April 24, 2018 at 02:28 PM | 42 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: cubs, javy baez, rockies, sign stealing

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Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: April 24, 2018 at 03:06 PM (#5659224)
The umpire has no justification for telling the SS where he can position himself defensively
   2. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: April 24, 2018 at 03:14 PM (#5659229)
Those Rockie announcers are tools. They act like LeMahieu stealing signs is doing is "just part of the game", but act like Baez can't attempt to stop him.

If anything, they should be happy that the opposing SS is spending so much energy running around between pitches.

   3. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: April 24, 2018 at 03:17 PM (#5659232)
Has there ever been another pair of same-surnamed players with a larger likability gap between Javy and Pedro "wait for it...wait for it...wait for it..." Baez?
   4. Brian C Posted: April 24, 2018 at 03:18 PM (#5659234)
What a bizarre (but not uncommon) perspective by the announcers here. I mean, if they want to say that stealing signs is just part of the "gamesmanship" of baseball, fine. Have at it. I've got no quarrel there.

But to act like Javy's counter-gamesmanship is simply beyond the pale ... well, that just does not fit the spirit of "gamesmanship." It doesn't even sound like defending the unwritten rules or any of that usual bs. It just sounds like rank entitlement - "gamesmanship for me, but not for thee."
   5. Stormy JE Posted: April 24, 2018 at 03:22 PM (#5659237)
Without clicking, I'm gonna guess this was a Calcaterra post.

EDIT: Nope.
   6. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: April 24, 2018 at 03:33 PM (#5659250)
Not even an NBC post.
   7. Zonk cooks his superfish with raisins Posted: April 24, 2018 at 04:05 PM (#5659277)
Has there ever been another pair of same-surnamed players with a larger likability gap between Javy and Pedro "wait for it...wait for it...wait for it..." Baez?


Ironically, I think the inherent fun of Javy is somewhat reminiscent of another, more well-liked Pedro...
   8. McCoy Posted: April 24, 2018 at 04:14 PM (#5659290)
The umpire has no justification for telling the SS where he can position himself defensively

I believe there is the Pesky rule that comes in play here. I think Baez's "sin" here was that he was moving around during the at bat. He could have planted himself in front of the runner all he wanted but he couldn't move back afterwards.
   9. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 24, 2018 at 04:22 PM (#5659298)
I think when the announcers said Baez can't block him, they just meant that he isn't tall enough or able to stay right in front of LeMahieu in order to actually prevent him from seeing the signs; not that Baez was violating a rule. They also indicated Baez's effort moved him out of the optimal defensive position, too, which might explain why this hasn't happened before.
   10. Spahn Insane Posted: April 24, 2018 at 04:30 PM (#5659315)
They act like LeMahieu stealing signs is doing is "just part of the game", but act like Baez can't attempt to stop him.

Indeed, that's exactly the argument they made, phrased differently--stealing signs is "part of the gamesmanship" of the sport, but (in the "everyone knows THIS" tone of voice) "[Baez] can't just block [LeMahieu's] view!"

As to the second part, as some of our favorite OTPers might say, citation very much needed. I'm pretty sure the runner's inviolable right to an unobstructed view of the opposing team's catcher's signals has yet to be incorporated into the rules. I'm also pretty sure the umpires have no business telling a fielder where to position himself, and Carapazza (sp?) was incompetent for not telling LeMahieu this, rather than taking Baez to task.
   11. Spahn Insane Posted: April 24, 2018 at 04:32 PM (#5659319)
They also indicated Baez's effort moved him out of the optimal defensive position, too, which might explain why this hasn't happened before.

To the extent this is accurate, their comments qualify as high-level concern trolling, as they clearly have no vested interest in Baez's being optimally positioned.

Anyway, Javy's the most fun player in baseball to watch, and his apparent ability to get into opponents' heads is a nice plus.
   12. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: April 24, 2018 at 04:32 PM (#5659320)
Ironically, I think the inherent fun of Javy is somewhat reminiscent of another, more well-liked Pedro...
I hadn't thought of that comparison, but you're right, it does kind of work. Meanwhile, I don't remember anyone having strong feelings one way or the other about Danys Baez.

By the way, I just looked him up, and...I am older than Danys Baez. That's depressing as hell.
   13. Spahn Insane Posted: April 24, 2018 at 04:36 PM (#5659324)
In responding to Clapper's post, I'd be remiss if I didn't acknowledge the drollness of this:

I think when the announcers said Baez can't block him, they just meant that he isn't tall enough or able to stay right in front of LeMahieu in order to actually prevent him from seeing the signs; not that Baez was violating a rule.


Heh.
   14. Spahn Insane Posted: April 24, 2018 at 04:36 PM (#5659326)
By the way, I just looked him up, and...I am older than Danys Baez. That's depressing as hell.

Try being older than Bartolo Colon.
   15. Zonk cooks his superfish with raisins Posted: April 24, 2018 at 04:37 PM (#5659328)
El Mago is never out of position.

He is precisely where he means to be when he means to be there.

It's just that occasionally, he doesn't always properly do the things he means to do whenever he is where he means to be.
   16. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: April 24, 2018 at 04:45 PM (#5659335)
Try being older than Bartolo Colon.
I refer you to the Pujols thread. Which brings up the question, which came first, the Colon or the Pujols...
   17. Walt Davis Posted: April 24, 2018 at 04:50 PM (#5659338)
The players older than me ship sailed a long time ago. I'm clinging to being younger than Andy and BDC.

Pre-season over on Gonfalon Cubs, we had a discussion of "if one Cub could play at his 95th percentile projection, who would we want it to be". We quibbled about the "correct" answer but I think we came to a pretty general agreement that the most fun would be Javy. It's only 80 PAs but offensively that's what we've been getting and it has been lots of fun.

I do sense other teams are starting to get a bit annoyed -- he can be very hyper. I suspect they get more annoyed with Contreras though.
   18. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: April 24, 2018 at 04:53 PM (#5659341)
I've got Bartolo and Ichiro, that's it. Unless Jason Grilli or R.A. Dickey can somehow catch on somewhere.
   19. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: April 24, 2018 at 04:53 PM (#5659343)
which came first, the Colon or the Pujols...


It goes Colon, Pujols, and Odor.
   20. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: April 24, 2018 at 04:57 PM (#5659349)
It goes Colon, Pujols, and Odor.
If the Angels can somehow dump (heh) Pujols on the Rangers, that would make the best multiplayer baseball card ever. It would be like Tinker to Evers to Chance, except more poetic.
   21. Tom Nawrocki Posted: April 24, 2018 at 05:01 PM (#5659355)
But to act like Javy's counter-gamesmanship is simply beyond the pale ...


Did you watch the clip? They didn't say anything about it being "beyond the pale." They thought it was unusual, which it certainly is, and they thought it would be ineffective, both because LeMahieu is big enough to see around Baez and because Baez then had to trot back to his position before the pitch.
   22. McCoy Posted: April 24, 2018 at 05:02 PM (#5659357)
I believe the rule in question would be 6.04(c) "No fielder shall take a position in the batter’s line of vision, and with deliberate unsportsmanlike intent, act in a manner to distract the batter." The Pesky rule.
   23. Nasty Nate Posted: April 24, 2018 at 05:15 PM (#5659368)
Did you watch the clip? They didn't say anything about it being "beyond the pale." They thought it was unusual, which it certainly is, and they thought it would be ineffective, both because LeMahieu is big enough to see around Baez and because Baez then had to trot back to his position before the pitch.
Eh, their tone and their defense of the practice of stealing signs went beyond just not thinking Baez' methods would work.
   24. Nasty Nate Posted: April 24, 2018 at 05:16 PM (#5659373)
Anyway, is it possible that all the stuff about signs was just an intentional red herring from Baez and the Cubs, deployed in the service of their real goal: the pick off play?
   25. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: April 24, 2018 at 06:17 PM (#5659410)
I think the inherent fun of Javy is somewhat reminiscent of another, more well-liked Pedro...


And on cue, on what should have been a routine single, Javy dekes the Indians RF to nonchalant the ball, and then takes off for second for an easy double.
   26. Brian C Posted: April 24, 2018 at 06:25 PM (#5659413)
Did you watch the clip? They didn't say anything about it being "beyond the pale." They thought it was unusual, which it certainly is, and they thought it would be ineffective, both because LeMahieu is big enough to see around Baez and because Baez then had to trot back to his position before the pitch.

Did YOU watch the clip? They both called Baez's tactics "silly", and then towards the end defended LeMaheiu's exasperation, saying "and anyhow, even if he's attempting to [steal signs], that's part of the game! And if you do steal signs, SHAME ON YOU! Get better signs!"

But yeah, they were just puzzled because they thought Baez might not be in position to field. Right.
   27. pthomas Posted: April 25, 2018 at 08:47 AM (#5659732)
As a person who has turned the sound off for forever I'll never understand why people still need an announcer to tell you what you seem to know every little thing about.
   28. Jose is an Absurd Doubles Machine Posted: April 25, 2018 at 08:55 AM (#5659736)
I believe the rule in question would be 6.04(c) "No fielder shall take a position in the batter’s line of vision, and with deliberate unsportsmanlike intent, act in a manner to distract the batter." The Pesky rule.


I'm familiar with the rule because the Tigers did something like this against Boggs in the 80s (that's right up Sparky's alley) but I've never heard it referred to as the "Pesky rule." Did Johnny used to do this or was it something teams did against Pesky?
   29. McCoy Posted: April 25, 2018 at 08:57 AM (#5659737)
Pesky did it against Ted Williams after he was traded to the Tigers. He was jumping and moving around in the background. Williams complained, ump told him to knock it off, and then shortly afterward they created the rule.
   30. Jose is an Absurd Doubles Machine Posted: April 25, 2018 at 09:09 AM (#5659741)
Thanks, I didn't know that. God I would have enjoyed hearing Ted talk about that. The ratio of curse words to non-curse words in that sentence would likely have skewed to the former.
   31. Greg Pope Posted: April 25, 2018 at 09:27 AM (#5659750)
But 6.04(c) refers exclusively to the batter. And even says that the intent has to be toward the batter. Clearly Baez's intent was not to distract the batter. So I don't see how this rule applies.
   32. McCoy Posted: April 25, 2018 at 10:43 AM (#5659816)
The ump can view Baez's actions as deliberate unsportsmanlike intent and that he was within the batter's line of vision. It isn't a courtroom out there. They give umps wide latitude. No ump is going to let a player or coach plead his case before he deliberates. If he tells you to do something you do it or get tossed.
   33. Nasty Nate Posted: April 25, 2018 at 10:48 AM (#5659820)
Are we sure the ump was telling him not to do it? I don't think we should take these Rockies announcers' word on that.

I thought the ump was just trying to ensure that two players verbally arguing didn't escalate into something physical.
   34. McCoy Posted: April 25, 2018 at 10:53 AM (#5659824)
According to Baez the umpire told him he had to get out of the way once the pitch was released but that really doesn't make sense either.
   35. Jose is an Absurd Doubles Machine Posted: April 25, 2018 at 10:55 AM (#5659828)
And even says that the intent has to be toward the batter.


"No fielder shall take a position in the batter’s line of vision, and with deliberate unsportsmanlike intent, act in a manner to distract the batter."


As I read this line the "intent" does not need to be towards the batter. "Intent" in that sentence is referring to the act being deliberate and unsportsmanlike. If the umpire deems that it is both deliberate and unsportsmanlike if it is distracting the batter whether that is the intent of it then it is violating the rule.
   36. Nasty Nate Posted: April 25, 2018 at 10:56 AM (#5659829)
According to Baez the umpire told him he had to get out of the way once the pitch was released but that really doesn't make sense either.
Thanks. I hadn't read that part.
   37. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: April 25, 2018 at 11:00 AM (#5659833)
According to Baez the umpire told him he had to get out of the way once the pitch was released but that really doesn't make sense either.


I looked like Baez was close to committing obstruction and the ump was warning him he would call it and award the runner 3B.
   38. McCoy Posted: April 25, 2018 at 11:07 AM (#5659836)
I looked like Baez was close to committing obstruction and the ump was warning him he would call it and award the runner 3B.

It looks to me like the part the ump had issue with was Baez running back to his spot before and possibly during the pitch. If DJ was truly playing heads up he would have attempted to steal while Javy was doing this to get the free base.
   39. Greg Pope Posted: April 25, 2018 at 12:40 PM (#5659959)
As I read this line the "intent" does not need to be towards the batter. "Intent" in that sentence is referring to the act being deliberate and unsportsmanlike. If the umpire deems that it is both deliberate and unsportsmanlike if it is distracting the batter whether that is the intent of it then it is violating the rule.

OK, I can see that.
   40. Too Much Coffee Man Posted: April 25, 2018 at 02:31 PM (#5660120)
Going back to the original post, I really didn't understand why the Rockie announcers were described as "sounding like complete idiots."
They initially pointed out the futility of the shorter Baez trying to block the taller LeMahieu.
(I didn't realize he was that tall!)

At some point, the repetitiveness of it got kind of silly (or, at least, no longer novel). I took the "c'mon" kind of comments as being dissatisfaction with the same scene played over and over AND (importantly) LeMahieu continuing to complain about it.


All that said, it would have been amazing if the pickoff play worked. (And, I say that as a Rockies fan.) The old "block sign stealing as subterfuge" trick.
   41. McCoy Posted: April 25, 2018 at 02:35 PM (#5660129)
According to the interviews DJ wasn't complaining but arguing with Javy. Javy was accusing him of stealing signs (yelled something about how Nolan's strikeout was because they weren't stealing signs) and DJ's retort was "change the signs!" which didn't make Javy happy.
   42. bunyon Posted: April 25, 2018 at 08:08 PM (#5660499)
Ump, DJ and Javy. I don't like any of them in that scene. Javy may be (is) a lot of fun usually but that wasn't a fun sequence.

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