I just wanted to take a moment to comment on this here article. In this moment I wanted to say that the Diamondbacks have, quite possibly, the worst 'team' in the booth of any MLB franchise going today. It's like sitting in on a Bio 15 lab group with a beer-glazed frat boy and a lisping, spittle-encrusted communications major who is thinking about rushing the frat and wants so badly to ingratiate himself to his hirsute partner.

I'm sure you'll get some dispute on that...

For example, when I watch the Braves on TV, I may be subjected to Chip Caray and Joe Simpson. After 20+ years of Skip, Ernie, and Pete, that's so bad there are not words...

At least Daron Sutton has accomplished the rare feat of being nowhere near as good as his father in two different professions.

There aren't many mainstream announcers explaining to people that strikeouts are not nearly as big a deal as many traditionalists and mainstream media would have you believe. In Arizona they emphasize that an out is an out, and looking at OBP is much more important than strikeout totals. There are not many mainstream announcers using metrics like ERA+, OPS+ on air, and explaining ballpark context to fans the way they do. There aren't many mainstream announcers that will discuss fielding metrics like Fielding Bible or UZR in a positive manner. There aren't many mainstream announcers that constantly plug sites like Fangraphs and Baseball-Reference.com during the broadcasts.

This stuff happens every night in Arizona. It's the most saber friendly booth I have listened to. Anywhere.

I would think that those on this of all sites would have picked up on that.

I watch those guys do about 12-15 full games a year and I've never heard any of that stuff. I have head Sutton say "that man" and Grace say "big league!" more times than I care to count.

I will say that their broadcasts change a lot, and for the better, when Matt Williams is the color dude. No attention-getting histrionics, no stupid catchphrases, no discussing his golf round that day. Just good, solid, intelligent baseball analysis and he knows when to shut up too.

I watch those guys do about 12-15 full games a year and I've never heard any of that stuff.

You are parsing words and focusing on what you don't like and missing out on the positives. I listen to every broadcast. I ALWAYS hear those things. I'm not saying some of the criticisms aren't valid. But to dismiss the work they do out of hand is just wrong. You are missing content, and clearly not living up to your username.

Here is an example of a local mainstream radio guy, Vince Marrotta complaining about Sutton explaining the issue of K's. Of course he is pissed off about being told K's aren't as important as he thinks they are.

Link

The fact is when they use more modern analytics they offend the traditionalists, and when the team is losing 90+ games and they play around a bit they offend the "hard core" people.

As a resident of the Phoenix area, I have the opportunity to listen to the Sutton/Grace combo - and I no longer do because they're terrible. Inside jokes, too many crowd shots, not enough of the game itself and an uncomfortable, forced interaction between the two.
Luckily, the radio pairing of Greg Schulte and Tom Candiotti is one of the best duos I've ever heard. Candiotti is a fantastic color guy - addresses the technical aspects of the game in an approachable manner as well as anyone out there.

Listening to Mark Grace cheerlead the last two innings of Randy Johnson's last no-hitter was one of the most sickening things I've experienced during a game.

The fact is when they use more modern analytics they offend the traditionalists, and when the team is losing 90+ games and they play around a bit they offend the "hard core" people.

Those are your "facts." Here's my fact: They ####### suck.

It's not even a matter of using modern analytics, anyway. If your best hitter this year is Mark Reynolds and your best hitter last year was Adam Dunn, of course you're going to make the argument that OBP matters and strikeouts don't. If they had different types of players I'm sure they'd be making a different argument. It's homerism, not sabermetrics. You're seriously trying to pass off the idea that Mark Friggin' Grace is a cutting-edge pioneer in the popularization of sabermetrics? Give me a break.

It's homerism, not sabermetrics. You're seriously trying to pass off the idea that Mark Friggin' Grace is a cutting-edge pioneer in the popularization of sabermetrics? Give me a break.

"Mark Grace isn't a proponent of sabermetrics. He's just a homer!"
"What makes you say that?"
"He's MARK GRACE."

I will say that their broadcasts change a lot, and for the better, when Matt Williams is the color dude. No attention-getting histrionics, no stupid catchphrases, no discussing his golf round that day. Just good, solid, intelligent baseball analysis and he knows when to shut up too.

Concur. I find Williams' attitude to be so serious as to tip into "dour," but it's better than forced yuks and laffs.

Williams just has excellent insight into the game. He actually has things of substance to say, and lots of them.

Meanwhile, here's the arena in which Mark Grace is truly a pioneer.

I'll just use this thread to point out the refreshing 1 minute which took place on the Yankee telecast on, hmm, Friday maybe.

Michael Kay is pretending to be choked up over a gift Al Leiter gave him, so he says he can't talk and Leiter should take over the play-by-play.

.....
Kay: You're not going to tell them the count?
Al: They can see it, Michael. It's right there on the top of the screen.
....
[pitch, high]
.....
Kay: And I guess you don't need to tell them that was high, because they can see it?
Al: Right.
....
Kay returns to the mic.

Leiter is great mostly because he doesn't feel like blabbing some nonsense all the time. Although I fear he's been told to talk more, because I don't think he goes minutes without talking anymore like he used to.

Meanwhile Kay was completely oblivious to the evidence that his job mostly isn't necessary.

It's not even a matter of using modern analytics, anyway. If your best hitter this year is Mark Reynolds and your best hitter last year was Adam Dunn, of course you're going to make the argument that OBP matters and strikeouts don't. If they had different types of players I'm sure they'd be making a different argument. It's homerism, not sabermetrics. You're seriously trying to pass off the idea that Mark Friggin' Grace is a cutting-edge pioneer in the popularization of sabermetrics? Give me a break.

It's not just homerism and that was just one of several examples given. Let me ask you, how many announcers had John Dewan on the broadcast spending two innings explaining the fielding bible plus/minus system ? Any that you can think of ?

Also, I'm really talking about Sutton more than Grace here as far as introducing this stuff to the audience. Sorry if I didn't make that clear, but it SHOULD be clear if you RTFA. By the way, go read the comments section under the interview. I see where poster TAP pointed out the same things I am. There are a lot of people who have noticed.

I listen to them all the time, Grace is only mildly irritating at his worst, and frequently enjoyable. And anyone who doesn't like Sutton, doesn't like anyone. BTW, Sutton employed a sabermetric analyst for his broadcast last year, a guy who was so sharp he now works for the FO. I talked to him about Daron, and he has nothing but high praise for his open-ness and interest in sabermetrics and more advanced analysis.

An interest in sabermetrics is a wonderful thing, but it doesn't make you a good play-by-play man. And Daron Sutton simply isn't very good. Look, I don't comment a lot here, and so I am not a known poster, but I stream a ton of games and have been interested in Arizona for a few seasons now (since a year or two before Sutton hired on with the team). I like a lot of their players and I love to watch their games, as for me they are one of the more interesting West Coast teams (And as a night owl I watch a lot of the West Coast games). I do not watch/listen to every Arizona game. Perhaps some of the subtleties of Sutton and Grace have eluded me, as I have admittedly opted to look elsewhere this season when I get stuck with these two calling things. Of course, when the Dodgers' game has Scully calling it, I watch that. But the Diamondbacks used to be second for me. I just burned out. I couldn't take them anymore. Once the Giants had a few interesting players, I was only too happy to watch them over the Diamondbacks crew, since the Giants have some solid talent in the booth (Sutton is right to point this out in TFA).

Perhaps they are not the worst crew in the game. It is true that the Yankees crew is just awful (due to Michael Kay in particular). The Braves crew is bad as well, and we all have seen the fruits of Reds broadcasts, but these guys out there in the desert are right up there (or would it be down there?) with them. There are indeed lots of crowd shots and 'give that fan a contract' crap that does detract from the viewing experience. The forced bonhomie is distracting - even if it might entail Sutton spitting an OPS+ stat at 'cranky old Mark Grace.' They openly and sloppily appeal to the fans to get on out to the ballpark far too much, and Sutton is really choppy on the mic. He also has kind of an awful voice for the job and is overeager to the point of annoyance far too often. I don't think this is a matter of personal taste.

Sabermetrics in the booth, to me, is a foregone conclusion. It will happen. More advanced stats are popping up in newspapers and on scoreboards (it's a favorite Francoeur bit, but they do put OBP on most scoreboards and also on the TV screens of an awful lot of viewers), and they are all over most team blogs. It's wonderful that Sutton is integrating. Perhaps he is a pioneer, though I don't think so, because, to me, in the end, it's a Pyrrhic victory at best, and likely it is much much worse.

Sutton makes baseball unenjoyable. I was forced to endure years of him doing Brewer games. I was shocked (and extremely pleased) that some stupid team stole him away. Sutton is insufferable, I can't understand how some people can claim to enjoy him. I had to always buy the MLB audio pack to go with Extra Innings so I didn't have to hear his voice. The Brewers' new guy is kind of nondescript and milquetoast-y, but at least he doesn't compel me to contemplate suicide while watching a game.

I actively avoid Diamondbacks (for Grace) and White Sox (for Harrelson) when watching MLB Extra Innings. They are the worst. This is saying since a lot since I am a Nats fan who is forced to endure the team AND Dibble.

I don't think this is a matter of personal taste.


Of course it's a matter of personal taste. Clearly there are people who do like him and people who don't. We are think highly of our own opinions. GSFRG even called me out just above for using the phrase "Fact Is". I didn't respond because he is right. Thats a lazy way to phrase an opinion.
You gave us your opinion and personal likes and dislikes, and then declared it wasn't a matter of taste.


Sabermetrics in the booth, to me, is a foregone conclusion. It will happen.

It's still pretty rare as of right now. Let me know when you see ERA+, OPS+, Fielding Bible +/-, etc etc on any scoreboard in MLB, let alone hear them being discussed on a broadcast. Let me know when you hear an announcer quote a player's FB %, GB%, or a pitchers pitch type percentage breakdown and then cite Fangraphs as the source.

Anyway, I have not disputed the personal opinions of style critique of any poster here. Everyone has their opinion, likes and dislikes. All I've done is tried to point out that he is doing a lot of stuff that other announcers are not doing with regards to presenting more advanced stats and concepts. I'd have thought that would have drawn at least some interest or given some balance to the conversation on this particular site. But I guess not. I've been told that it doesn't exist, (wrong) or that it's a "Pyrrhic victory at best". So much for balance and fairness.

Let me know when you hear an announcer quote a player's FB %, GB%, or a pitchers pitch type percentage breakdown and then cite Fangraphs as the source.

David Cone does this on YES.

I'll accept it's a matter of personal taste, and my personal taste prefers fingernails on a chalkboard to Mark Grace.