Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Wednesday, April 10, 2013

Wade Boggs thinks Red Sox should retire his number

Hail Boggs! (It’s about time somebody found him)

“It would be nice,” said Boggs, 54, who is currently the assistant baseball coach of the Wharton High School Wildcats here, wearing pinstripes. “Am I bitter? I thought when I wore a Boston hat in the Hall of Fame I’d be up there.

“It’s been eight years now. I used to be bitter. But I think those days are over. Was I bitter? Absolutely.”

...Boggs says he never needed steroids, even after his average dipped to a career-worst .259 in 1992.

And he has no sympathy for Alex Rodriguez.

“It’s a shame he got a half-billion dollars to play baseball,” said Boggs.

...He’s still angry at former teammate Oil Can Boyd, who called Boggs a bigot.

“You don’t think Jim Rice or Don Baylor would’ve beat my ass if I was?” he said.

Some of his critics, including teammates, have said that Boggs was selfish, obsessed with individual statistics. That makes the Chicken Man furious.

“My job was to get on base to score runs,” he said. “I was Billyball before Billyball. I got on base 300 times a year.”

He is just getting warmed up.

“The old saying was, ‘Boggs never drives in any runs.’ I played in 155 games. I led off. That’s 155 plate appearance where I come up with nobody on.”

Repoz Posted: April 10, 2013 at 03:33 AM | 56 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: history, red sox

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. John Northey Posted: April 10, 2013 at 06:23 AM (#4409497)
It is dumb how things go with the Red Sox sometimes. Boggs was clearly a HOF'er the entire time he was with Boston. They should've tried to get him back there at the end of his career for a farewell AB or something in September but didn't. Seems like once the ownership changed he because Mr. Unpopular for whatever reason. Going to the Yankees was a big factor, but if he was offered a deal and they refused to honour it, or even consider giving him a deal close to the Yankee one then the club is as at fault as anyone.

Generally if a guy is in the HOF as a member of your team retiring his number makes a lot of sense unless there are big reasons not to. Not sure what reasons there would be outside of his playing with the Yankees for a few years.
   2. Dale Sams Posted: April 10, 2013 at 06:27 AM (#4409498)
“I was Billyball before Billyball.


He burnt out starting staffs?
   3. SoSH U at work Posted: April 10, 2013 at 07:19 AM (#4409502)
I thought when I wore a Boston hat in the Hall of Fame I’d be up there.


Didn't he have a deal with the Rays to wear their hat, but the Hall nixed it? That wouldn't exactly be a mark in his favor.

The Sox can certainly do it if they want, but I don't think it's mandatory.
   4. bjhanke Posted: April 10, 2013 at 07:49 AM (#4409515)
It's hard for me to imagine a team NOT putting a Hall of Famer's number on their wall. But, then, I live in St. Louis, where we worship our Hall guys. We'll very likely put Albert Pujols up on the left field fence when he retires. - Brock Hanke
   5. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: April 10, 2013 at 08:25 AM (#4409531)
Boggs is such a weird case. The new ownership group has gone out of their way to welcome back virtually everyone from the club's history, hell Clemens was back last year for some of the 100th anniversary stuff, but Boggs is curiously absent from all of that. He's the only player of any prominence from the past 50 years that hasn't thrown out a first pitch or been otherwise involved in some sort of ceremony or another. And even with the old group he became persona non grata pretty quickly.

Just by way of comparison no one has worn #21 since Roger left, it was 6 years until someone wore #24 after Evans left, no one wore #14 after Rice left, it was five years for #5 after Nomar and no one has worn 49 or 33 since Wake and Tek retired. Yet for some reason Boggs' #26 was on Wes Chamberlain's back a year after he left and has since been worn by eleven different players. (source)

I'd love to see his number retired. It is richly deserved and I loved him when I was a kid. I hope they get around to it.

   6. Flynn Posted: April 10, 2013 at 08:43 AM (#4409541)
Nobody's worn 45 since Pedro left either, and the fanbase would revolt if his number isn't retired with some speed after his inevitable election to the Hall.

Boggs is crazy and weird, but he's right. He had a Wade Boggs night a couple years ago, where rumors went around that his number would be retired, but other than that virtually no involvement with the team anymore.

   7. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 10, 2013 at 09:03 AM (#4409553)
Nobody's worn 45 since Pedro left either, and the fanbase would revolt if his number isn't retired with some speed after his inevitable election to the Hall.

Why wait? The guys won 3 Cy Youngs with the Red Sox. I'll never understand why a team needs "permission" from the HoF to retire a number.

And Boggs is 100% right. Hell the guy averaged 8 WAR p.a. over a 7 year run, with 5 Batting Titles.

It just makes the Red Sox look foolish not to retire his number.
   8. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: April 10, 2013 at 09:07 AM (#4409558)
Why wait?


I like a waiting period if not necessarily the reason for the wait. I think by waiting a few years you get some distance and then when the player comes back you get to relive the player's career when it's not so fresh and it's a bit more fun.
   9. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 10, 2013 at 09:14 AM (#4409562)
I like a waiting period if not necessarily the reason for the wait. I think by waiting a few years you get some distance and then when the player comes back you get to relive the player's career when it's not so fresh and it's a bit more fun.

This makes sense. But a couple of years seems fine, especially if the guy didn't end his career with your team. I mean, you're retiring Pedro's number for what he did from 1998-2004. Not his Met career. It's been almost ten years since the contributions that are causing the number to be retired.
   10. Canker Soriano Posted: April 10, 2013 at 09:21 AM (#4409566)
Why wait?

Am I wrong in remembering that the White Sox retired Harold Baines' number while he was still active, then later re-signed him and had to un-retire it so he could wear it again?
   11. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 10, 2013 at 09:29 AM (#4409575)
Am I wrong in remembering that the White Sox retired Harold Baines' number while he was still active, then later re-signed him and had to un-retire it so he could wear it again?

That sounds right. But it's not really "un-retiring". Retiring a number means that only that player can wear it. So, Baines could wear his number while it was still retired.
   12. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: April 10, 2013 at 09:36 AM (#4409579)
Wait, which number? The number of beers he drank on a transcontinental flight?
   13. Tubbs & Minnie Miñoso don't fear Sid Monge Posted: April 10, 2013 at 09:39 AM (#4409580)
I have a feeling Boston may retired Pedro's number next, they may wait until he gets elected to the HOF though--while that is no longer a requirement for the team retiring a former Sox's number (see Johnny Pesky), I think they may wait.

Boggs and Clemens are interesting cases, both seemed very content to put their Sox days behind them when they were in New York. I remember Clemens once said he wouldnt attend his HOF induction if the Hall chose anything other than a Yanks cap for his bronze plaque.
With all the PED controversy I dont see his # being retired unless he gets in the Hall.

I also remember Boggs wanted to be inducted as a Devil Ray until the Hall intervened, its been several years now and I dont see where anything has changed that would make the Sox retire his # now

Dwight Evans is an interesting case, he played nearly 20 yrs for the team and is 2nd behind Yaz in many Sox records. A week or so ago when we were discussing whether the Mariners should retire Edgar Martinez's # to help his HOF candidacy, Evans was one of the players I felt would benefit from the attention his team retiring his # would bring.
   14. Nasty Nate Posted: April 10, 2013 at 09:44 AM (#4409582)
Evans was one of the players I felt would benefit from the attention his team retiring his # would bring.


Pretty much impossible to retire his because Manny wore it for 7.5 seasons; that cat is out of the bag.
   15. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 10, 2013 at 09:47 AM (#4409585)
Pretty much impossible to retire his because Manny wore it for 7.5 seasons; that cat is out of the bag.

The Yankees retired Maris' #9, even though Greg Nettles (a better player) wore it for many years. They also retired #8 for both Berra and Dickey.
   16. SoSH U at work Posted: April 10, 2013 at 09:48 AM (#4409588)
On the merits, Boggs is an obvious choice. But I didn't like him in Boston,* and nothing he's done since has changed my opinion, so I just can't get worked up about it. I'd be more excited to see a retirement ceremony for the Dewey/Manny combo platter, Pedro, even Roger, before Wade. He got to ride the ####### horse. That should be enough.

* The scoring change incident when Clemens was battling for the ERA title during the dark days of the Hobson era validated every selfish charge ever hurled at him.
   17. Famous Original Joe C Posted: April 10, 2013 at 09:55 AM (#4409592)
He got to ride the ####### horse.


This is what I thought of immediately on seeing the headline. #### you and your horse, Wade. Go back to Tampa.
   18. Tubbs & Minnie Miñoso don't fear Sid Monge Posted: April 10, 2013 at 09:57 AM (#4409594)
Pretty much impossible to retire his because Manny wore it for 7.5 seasons; that cat is out of the bag.

I could see the Sox retiring #24 for Evans and not for Manny as a final way for the team to divorce themselves from his legacy
Manny was a huge part of the 2004 & 07 titles but left in a horrible way and has embarrassed himself with PED suspensions
   19. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 10, 2013 at 10:48 AM (#4409654)
Manny was a huge part of the 2004 & 07 titles but left in a horrible way and has embarrassed himself with PED suspensions

He embarrassed himself long before the PED suspensions.
   20. Nasty Nate Posted: April 10, 2013 at 10:56 AM (#4409668)
Retiring #24 for Evans wouldn't bring shame upon Manny, it would likely do the opposite out of confusion.
   21. villageidiom Posted: April 10, 2013 at 10:58 AM (#4409671)
I thought when I wore a Boston hat in the Hall of Fame I’d be up there.

Didn't he have a deal with the Rays to wear their hat, but the Hall nixed it? That wouldn't exactly be a mark in his favor.


You are correct. It was because of that attempt that the HOF asserted that players don't have a say in how the HOF chooses to display them on the plaque. His HOF plaque having a Boston cap was not his choice, and if he got to choose at the time it would have been fifth, behind the Rays (who he tried to make the deal you mentioned), the Yankees, a blank cap, or no cap at all. So, yeah, he doesn't get to claim that choosing the Boston cap is a point in his favor.

That's one reason. But that's not the only reason.

The Red Sox generally have kept their number-retiring to a minimum. They've been around 113 years, and they have only seven numbers retired for Red Sox players. (And one for Jackie Robinson.) Seven is a pretty low number, especially when you figure

They set some firm rules a few decades ago to keep it exclusive: at least 10 years with the team, finished their career with the team, Hall of Fame.

They have granted exceptions. Fisk was a weaselly exception, giving him a figurehead front office position after he retired so they could say he "finished his career with the team" and thus have the pretense of not being an exception. The only Red Sox player they made a exception for, and didn't try to pretend they weren't, was Johnny Pesky. If they were going to grant an exception, I don't mind them setting the bar at Pesky: Boggs can join up with the team as a coach for the next 40-50 years. (Based on TFA, sounds like he pursued it, but it wouldn't pay as much as he wanted. Oh well.)

But if they were going to start granting exceptions with more regularity, who should be first among the HOF-eligible retirees who played for Boston:

Cy Young
Babe Ruth
Tris Speaker
Jimmie Foxx
Lefty Grove
Dennis Eckersley
Roger Clemens
Wade Boggs

I think the only one of those I wouldn't put ahead of Boggs would be Eckersley. Hell, I'd put Dwight Evans ahead of Boggs. Maybe Tony Conigliaro ahead of Boggs. Maybe retire a fleece top for Terry Francona, since I don't think anyone ever saw his uniform and wouldn't know what number to retire.

That's the other reason Boggs' number wouldn't be retired any time soon. The backlog of people being held out because of the rather stringent rules, and the high bar on exception that Pesky represents, include so many people who were huge in Boston that likely deserve the honor more than Boggs.
   22. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: April 10, 2013 at 12:14 PM (#4409781)
I think the only one of those I wouldn't put ahead of Boggs would be Eckersley. Hell, I'd put Dwight Evans ahead of Boggs. Maybe Tony Conigliaro ahead of Boggs. Maybe retire a fleece top for Terry Francona, since I don't think anyone ever saw his uniform and wouldn't know what number to retire.


Boggs came up with the Sox, so he should get credit for that. Plus he accumulated roughly 75% of his WAR with the Sox, all the other players are below 50%. Go ahead with Evans before Boggs, but other than Clemens their careers are not like Boggs's. He was top 5 all time at his position, played there for 11 years, and was drafted and developed by the organization. His number should be retired before anyone's, aside from Evans or Clemens.
   23. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: April 10, 2013 at 12:30 PM (#4409812)
I heartily agree with #22. Boggs' career in Boston coincided with my most regular attendance at Fenway. He was a great hitter.

I've mentioned this here before, and it's a fun thing to repeat, so....

There was a guy in the CF bleachers, an MIT professor (although you wouldn't have guessed by talking to him, he sounded like a regular Joe), who, every time Boggs was announced for his at bat, would yell "Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaade", holding the "aaaaaaaaaaaaa" part for as long as his lungs would allow. He always got a nice round of applause, at least during the games I sat out there. And, those times I sat in the box seats or grandstand, I could hear him. It was very cool.
   24. smileyy Posted: April 10, 2013 at 12:31 PM (#4409813)
Boston is so ashamed to have won those titles with an embarrassment like Manny Ramirez on the team. I can't imagine how many more titles they would have won if he hadn't been holding them back.
   25. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: April 10, 2013 at 12:34 PM (#4409816)
The Yankees should retire the badge number of his police horse.
   26. if nature called, ladodger34 would listen Posted: April 10, 2013 at 12:46 PM (#4409833)
As a non-Red Sox fan and a kid of the 80's (and on a different coast), it blows my mind that Boggs' number hasn't been retired. I think the Dodgers have pretty exacting standards (except for Jim Gilliam) for retiring numbers and I'm pretty darn sure that they would have already retired Boggs number if he was on the team (off the top of my head, the retired numbers for the Dodgers are Reese, Lasorda, Snider, Gilliam, Koufax, Campanella, Sutton, Jackie, Alston, and Drysdale).

It will be interesting to see what happens when Piazza eventually gets elected (shoulda happened this year, but whatever). At least that one arguable. Piazza was probably at his best with the Dodgers, but the trade clouds a ton of stuff. Boggs is a Red Sox legend, even if you are pissed about his horse riding activities.
   27. Srul Itza Posted: April 10, 2013 at 12:58 PM (#4409850)
The guys won 3 Cy Youngs with the Red Sox


Two actually. One came with Montreal.

But if they were going to start granting exceptions with more regularity, who should be first among the HOF-eligible retirees who played for Boston:

Cy Young
Babe Ruth
Tris Speaker
....


That might be a trick, since the Babe did not wear a number when he was with the Boston Red Sox, did he? I don't see the Boston/Milwaukee/Atlanta Braves retiring his number.
   28. Dale Sams Posted: April 10, 2013 at 01:03 PM (#4409857)
It would be hilarious if the Sox retired #24 under the pretense of it being Evans number, then as a joke they have Manny come out followed by a hopping, tied up, gagged Dwight Evans.
   29. Morty Causa Posted: April 10, 2013 at 01:08 PM (#4409866)
Retire Manny's number. How about his very own towel?
   30. valuearbitrageur Posted: April 10, 2013 at 02:05 PM (#4409945)
He had 2,157 first inning PAs in his career, and only 101 first inning RBI.

Really, he wants his number retired? A guy who constantly started his team off in a hole?

Sure he scored 357 first inning runs, but that's just because he's selfish.
   31. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 10, 2013 at 02:25 PM (#4409967)
Two actually. One came with Montreal.

Only two?!?! F*** him them. No number retirement.
   32. Sonic Youk Posted: April 10, 2013 at 02:43 PM (#4409991)
He gets 1/2 credit each for the other two Cys he should have won.
   33. alilisd Posted: April 10, 2013 at 02:48 PM (#4410006)
The Yankees retired Maris' #9, even though Greg Nettles (a better player) wore it for many years.


So did Graig Nettles, and he was the best of them all!
   34. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 10, 2013 at 02:59 PM (#4410017)
So did Graig Nettles, and he was the best of them all!

I take no responsibility for learning misspelled first names. I'll make the effort to learn Pierzynski, McGwire and Saltalamacchia, b/c, hey your stuck with it.

But if your parents couldn't spell, I'm not adjusting.
   35. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: April 10, 2013 at 03:01 PM (#4410022)
But is it a misspelled "Greg", or a misspelled "Craig"?
   36. Nasty Nate Posted: April 10, 2013 at 03:03 PM (#4410028)
up until this moment I thought his name was Craig Nettles
   37. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 10, 2013 at 03:11 PM (#4410038)
up until this moment I thought his name was Craig Nettles

Lots of people do. There was a famous misprint baseball card when he was with the Yanks.
   38. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 10, 2013 at 04:40 PM (#4410118)
Hall of Fame membership shouldn't be the exclusive consideration for retired number status, IMHO. Sure Boggs deserves it, but he does have the Hall, and will also get cheered on Old Timers Day at Yankee Stadium. But length of service (Pesky) is a perfectly appropriate consideration, as would be a tragic career shortening (Munson). I always thought the Red Sox should have retired numbers for Tony Conigliaro & Harry Agganis.
   39. Booey Posted: April 10, 2013 at 09:24 PM (#4410302)
I take no responsibility for learning misspelled first names.


Agreed. I remember rooting against Geoff Jenkins, Andruw Jones, and Jayson Werth when they first came up mainly cuz of the stupid way they spelled their first names.
   40. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: April 10, 2013 at 09:38 PM (#4410320)
Boggs:

(1) Should have his number retired.
(2) Is a weird #######.
(3) Had a radical moustache.
(4) Is my favorite kind of player.
   41. Mirabelli Dictu (Chris McClinch) Posted: April 10, 2013 at 09:47 PM (#4410333)
40,

Honestly, points 2 and 3 pretty much ensure point 4. Weird ####### + radical mustache = wildly entertaining player, even before you consider that he's a first-ballot HOFer on merit.
   42. Yastrzemski in left. Posted: April 10, 2013 at 10:53 PM (#4410389)
"...at least 10 years with the team, finished their career with the team, Hall of Fame."

Big Papi?
   43. puck Posted: April 11, 2013 at 01:13 AM (#4410464)

Agreed. I remember rooting against Geoff Jenkins, Andruw Jones, and Jayson Werth when they first came up mainly cuz of the stupid way they spelled their first names.

"Geoffrey" is a weird spelling? Did you not grow up with a Toys R Us nearby?
   44. Booey Posted: April 11, 2013 at 02:34 AM (#4410480)
"Geoffrey" is a weird spelling? Did you not grow up with a Toys R Us nearby?


It's fine for cartoon giraffes. It looks stupid with people. I used to work with a guy named Geoff and everyone pronounced it Gee-off just to irk him. Wouldn't have happened if his parents just had the sense to name him "Jeff".
   45. Jack Carter, calling Beleaguered Castle Posted: April 11, 2013 at 05:07 AM (#4410487)
I've seen Jayson, Jasen, Jazin, Chasen (pronounced with a "J"), and Jasson.
Gotta be original, I guess. All I can think of when I see those is the thousands of times the poor kid will have to spell it out by the time he's 21.
   46. Jack Carter, calling Beleaguered Castle Posted: April 11, 2013 at 06:01 AM (#4410491)
I thought when I wore a Boston hat in the Hall of Fame I’d be up there.

Didn't he have a deal with the Rays to wear their hat, but the Hall nixed it? That wouldn't exactly be a mark in his favor.

Doesn't get much more disingenuous than that. "I offered to sell the hat for a cool million to the Rays, but when the Hall slapped that down and made them put a Boston hat on my plaque I thought sure the Red Sox would retire my number."

After that little farce, unless there's a big push from fans, why would Boston do that?

   47. Super Creepy Derek Lowe (GGC) Posted: April 11, 2013 at 06:27 AM (#4410494)
Mike Salk was ralking about this all yesterday afternoon. I like him so far on his new drivetime show with Michael Holley, but he was anti=retirement. Salk's argument was that Boggs wasn't beloved by the Sox fans. Also, he thought that it was tacky that Boggs wanted to be a Peskyesque ambassador for the team but the Sox didn't offer enough money. I was kind of annoyed that they were talking about this instead of current events, but they did have an interview with John Farrell that I didn't catch while I was preoccupied with work.

I'm pro. For a while Boggs was my favorite player. I knoq it ended badly with Boston, but that's the way it usually goes. I might unretire Doerr's number to make room for Boggs.
   48. Bug Selig Posted: April 11, 2013 at 07:24 AM (#4410506)
Wade Boggs thinks that people think about Wade Boggs way more than people who aren't Wade Boggs actually think about Wade Boggs.
   49. TomH Posted: April 11, 2013 at 07:29 AM (#4410507)
Speaker did not have a #, either, did he?

I don't why teams, as they honor uniform numbers with icons around their stadium, wouldn't "retire" a jersey with the player's name stuck on the back, for those like Cy Young who did not wear a number.

What did the Tigers do with Cobb, or Pirates with Wagner?
   50. SOLockwood Posted: April 11, 2013 at 09:35 AM (#4410578)
Wagner eventually got a number when he was a coach with the Pirates -- the Pirates retired that number.

What the Giants did with McGraw and Mathewson was put up an NY logo where the number went on the other icons (for Mays, McCovey, etc.).
   51. Moeball Posted: April 11, 2013 at 03:38 PM (#4411009)
What did the Tigers do with Cobb, or Pirates with Wagner?


I don't know what the Tigers are doing nowadays but at Tiger Stadium I believe they just had the names of the honored players who were "retired" (Cobb, Greenberg, Gehringer, Kaline, etc.).

Question about Boggs - wasn't he a rather old rookie when he came up in 1982 and hit .349? I think he was 24 at the time - any Bosox fans out there old enough to have backstory on how he didn't make the team in '81 or '80? I gotta think someone who can hit .349 at age 24 was probably already capable of adequately hitting major league pitching when he was 23 or maybe even 22. Was there politics at play in keeping him down? Do his minor league equivalencies indicate he was already previously capable of hitting major league pitching? Or was he really just a freak late bloomer?

Wouldn't be the first time I've heard of that sort of thing happening. There was the Ted Williams legend where he came to spring training in 1938 at the age of 19 - the Sox had purchased his contract from the PCL Padres - and the story goes that teammates told Ted "Wait until you see Jimmie Foxx hit!" (Foxx would go on to have one of his best seasons in '38, so he clearly was still in his prime). To which Williams supposedly replied "Wait until Foxx sees me hit!" The stories I've always heard are that Ted was sent to AAA Minneapolis for the 1938 season, not because he hadn't shown in the spring that he could hit major league pitching, but to gain "maturity" (i.e., his ego had pissed people off and he was sent down as punishment). Given that he easily won the Triple Crown with Minneapolis at the age of 19 I have no doubt whatsoever that he could have been at least an average major leaguer at that point in his career.
   52. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: April 11, 2013 at 03:49 PM (#4411023)
any Bosox fans out there old enough to have backstory on how he didn't make the team in '81 or '80?


The Sox had traded for Carney Lansford who went on to win the batting title in 1981 and in 1980 they went into the season with Butch Hobson who had been a good player but fell apart.

I was young then but I seem to recall that there were concerns that Boggs didn't have the power to be an MLB 3rd baseman nor was he good enough defensively. Basically it was "all he can do is hit" which look ridiculous now of course. Looking at his track record he had just nine minor league home runs in almost 2300 at bats so it's not like concerns about his power were unfounded.
   53. Nasty Nate Posted: April 11, 2013 at 03:56 PM (#4411039)
If they didn't leave him in the minors, the 33-inning game might not have happened. That's a chance we can't take - I'll destroy the time machine.
   54. TomH Posted: April 11, 2013 at 03:59 PM (#4411043)
In short, the sotry is that Boggs hit VERY well in the minors, but the Sox failed to realize how poor a hitting park they had at AAA; their hitters would actually hit for BETTER stats in the majors (half of the games at Fenway)! Plus they didn't account well for the value of his good eye. Also, Boggs was limited to 3rd base, and Lansford hit .336 in 1981. Tony Perez was at 1B, Yaz at DH, so not much other place to put them. Dave Stapleton was a good-hitting poor-fielding 2Bman, who when moved over to 1B got credit for being a world-class defender. Unfortunately, his bat was slipping to stinko, faster than the team would admit, and it took until 1/3 of the way thru 1982 to get Boggs into the lineup everyday as a 1b-3b-dh, until they realized that Lansford could be dealt wihtout suffering.
   55. Moeball Posted: April 11, 2013 at 05:39 PM (#4411143)
In short, the sotry is that Boggs hit VERY well in the minors, but the Sox failed to realize how poor a hitting park they had at AAA; their hitters would actually hit for BETTER stats in the majors (half of the games at Fenway)! Plus they didn't account well for the value of his good eye.


I was young then but I seem to recall that there were concerns that Boggs didn't have the power to be an MLB 3rd baseman nor was he good enough defensively. Basically it was "all he can do is hit" which look ridiculous now of course.


The Sox had traded for Carney Lansford who went on to win the batting title in 1981 and in 1980 they went into the season with Butch Hobson who had been a good player but fell apart.


Thanks for the info. I suspected as much. Wasn't Yawkey still the owner back then? It's just another example of how a historic franchise was just so abysmally mismanaged for so long that it's no wonder it took them so long to win a WS. Didn't want to embrace the changes in the game that led to black and hispanic players entering the fold, so the Sox were the very last team to get on that bandwagon. National League teams in the '50s were signing incredible talents such as Willie Mays...and Hank Aaron...and Ernie Banks...and Frank Robinson...and Roberto Clemente...and the Sox finally signed...Pumpsie Green. Yeesh.

So it sounds like the Sox didn't see the value in Boggs because they couldn't a) do a proper minor league equivalency evaluation or b) recognize the importance of on-base %. How could a team that had Ted Williams not recognize the importance of players with good batting eyes? Oh, wait, that's right - they didn't see Williams' walks as a positive, either, they saw them as a negative because he was too stubborn to swing at bad pitches with runners on base that he could have (supposedly) driven in...I'm so glad this is the 21st century because I think (perhaps naively?) that all the slow, stupid owners that plagued the game for decades have finally been weeded out?
   56. Super Creepy Derek Lowe (GGC) Posted: April 11, 2013 at 08:19 PM (#4411249)
Yawkey was dead by then. Boggs came up during the Haywood Sullivan - Buddy LeRoux era.

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
BFFB
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogOT: NFL/NHL thread
(9248 - 10:21pm, Dec 21)
Last: Ray (RDP)

NewsblogOT: Politics - December 2014: Baseball & Politics Collide in New Thriller
(5208 - 10:15pm, Dec 21)
Last: Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip

NewsblogThe Yankees’ plan in case A-Rod can’t play at all
(25 - 10:12pm, Dec 21)
Last: Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site

NewsblogMarty Noble's HOF Ballot
(44 - 10:10pm, Dec 21)
Last: greenback calls it soccer

NewsblogDetermining Hall vote is no easy task | New York Post
(26 - 10:02pm, Dec 21)
Last: SoSHially Unacceptable

NewsblogOT: Monthly NBA Thread - December 2014
(771 - 9:52pm, Dec 21)
Last: Booey

NewsblogThe 2015 HOF Ballot Collecting Gizmo!
(174 - 9:50pm, Dec 21)
Last: Bob from Indiana

NewsblogOT: Soccer December 2014
(344 - 9:50pm, Dec 21)
Last: Mefisto

Hall of MeritHerman Long
(11 - 9:22pm, Dec 21)
Last: Joey Numbaz (Scruff)

NewsblogThe Jeff Jacobs HOF Ballot: Keep The Voting Serious And Fair
(55 - 9:14pm, Dec 21)
Last: Ron J

NewsblogRuben Amaro Jr. says it would be best if Phillies move on from Ryan Howard
(46 - 9:11pm, Dec 21)
Last: Mom makes botox doctors furious

Hall of Merit2015 Hall of Merit Ballot Discussion
(107 - 9:08pm, Dec 21)
Last: Joey Numbaz (Scruff)

Hall of Merit2015 Hall of Merit Ballot
(94 - 9:04pm, Dec 21)
Last: lieiam

NewsblogAngels, Red Sox discontinue pension plans for non-uniformed personnel - LA Times
(26 - 7:13pm, Dec 21)
Last: PreservedFish

NewsblogGetting ready to gamble on Jung-Ho Kang | FOX Sports
(7 - 6:01pm, Dec 21)
Last: Steve Parris, Je t'aime

Page rendered in 0.4282 seconds
48 querie(s) executed