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1. Der Komminsk-sar Posted: March 29, 2010 at 01:28 PM (#3487811)Does anyone here really think OPS+ is all you need to know about a hitter? Or ERA+ pitcher?
I only ever see them used as a rough number to start a conversation...unless the disparity is tremendous.
NewCokeERA# is not a sabermetric advance on ERA+. It is just showing the same information in a different format. Using standard deviations or defense-independent ERA is a sabermetric advance.
Runs Created or OPS or EQA were all advances on batting average and RBI because they used different information and in different ways.
Post 2 is correct. ERA+ isn't a hardcore sabermetric tool, it's just a handy approximation that takes offensive levels and parks into account.
Interestingly, the article shows that ERA+ can actually be used to provide a run ratio that can be plugged into a Pythagorean estimator to get an estimated winning percentage for a pitcher.
I did not know that, and I haven't heard anyone use that as a point in its favor.
Sabermetrics has already moved forward beyond ERA. Tinkering with ERA+ is going backwards.
Yes to defense-independent ERA: if you focus on what it does say (instead of, as most critics do, what it doesn't), it's a tremendously useful tool.
No to standard deviations: this seems to me to be similar to WPA ... oh look, I measured something with fancy math, it must have meaning!
It's not at all like WPA. It actually tells you something meaningful about how difficult it was to amass the stats.
It is not at all clear that an ERA or an OPS 50% better than league average in 2010 is the same relative performance as that stat in 1950. But, to the extent that the underlying stats are normally distributed, an ERA 2 SD's better than league average should be comparable across eras.
I only ever see them used as a rough number to start a conversation...unless the disparity is tremendous.
I somewhat disagree. I think a lot of people do believe OPS+, in combination with playing time, tells you most of what you need to know. Pretty sure there are HOM voters who mostly base ratings on OPS+ (in conjunction with PT and position). And people who do admit that Player X's baserunning, defense, etc add a lot of value will still say something like "that can't possibly overcome 30 points of OPS+!" though I don't think they have any idea what 30 points of OPS+ even means, besides being a big number.
If this is what people think a 150 OPS+ (and a lot of people do - Ken Rosenthal makes this mistake all the time), they really need to be reminded that
OPS+ = OBP/lgOBP + SLG/lgSLG - 1. An OPS 50% above the league average, if the OBP and SLG scale at the same rate as for league average plays, means a 200 OPS+. A 150 OPS+ means ~25% better than league average.
Unfamiliar with the internet, Sean? :D
Like you've never been burned in effigy before.
But I'd like to say that everyone - Harold, Tango, etc. - has been very good at clearly explaining the new formulation to me, and what I didn't understand about the old one, so thanks for that.
(I'm only saying this because I got kind of bent out of shape when it was changed before.)
A 150 OPS+ means that OBP and SLG are each 25% better than league average, or some combination that adds up to 50%. And it so happens that because of the interdependent nature of offensive events, if a team raises OBP and SLG each by 25%, that will add roughly 50% to overall team scoring. Stated very roughly, you put 25% more runners on base, and drive in 25% more of all your runners that reach base. So a 150 OPS+ does represent 50% more runs, both at the team level and for an individual player. Player X with a 150 OPS+ will drive in 25% more of the runners on in front of him, and get himself on base to get driven in by his teammates 25% more often too.
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