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Monday, March 29, 2010

Walk Like a Sabermetrician: Esoteric Ramblings About +

Yerps! I don’t have time (filtering new Slow Animal hooky-dooky product is eating it all up!) to take this all in right now.

My own personal preference is for aERA, since I’m not bothered by lower being better and because, when possible, I prefer statistics that offer both ratio and differential comparability. However, if the adjusted ERA standard must display above-average as >100, then I prefer ERA#.

What bothers me most about the debate I’ve seen is not that people can’t express what ERA+ really means or that fuzzy terminology is used, but the impression I get that some people have placed certain statistics on a pedestal and never want to see them change, even if the changes are sound. When sabermetric formulas are treated as inviolable constants, the entire purpose of sabermetrics goes out the window.

I don’t mean to suggest that any alteration to a sabermetric statistic, no matter how marginal the benefit, should be implemented immediately and without discussion. That too would go against the spirit of the field. But it’s important to remember that sabermetrics is always moving forward (or at least striving to move forward), and from time-to-time new and better methods will be developed. If and when there is a backlash to those newer methods simply because they are new, then ERA+ and OPS+ and the other statistics have simply become a new-age version of BA, HR, RBI, Wins—numbers celebrated for their own sake, rather than for what they tell us about the game.

Repoz Posted: March 29, 2010 at 12:15 PM | 14 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: history, sabermetrics, site news

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   1. Der Komminsk-sar Posted: March 29, 2010 at 01:28 PM (#3487811)
Without having read TFA (as I can't), the author (in the excerpt) seems to miss the point of those resistant to change. It's not that the stat is sacrosanct, rather that sabremetrics can be held as both the search for and disemmination of objective truths wrt baseball.
   2. Greg (U)K Posted: March 29, 2010 at 01:54 PM (#3487832)
I've seen a lot of discussion about the holiness of ERA+ and OPS+ lately, but I don't think that's accurate at all.
Does anyone here really think OPS+ is all you need to know about a hitter? Or ERA+ pitcher?

I only ever see them used as a rough number to start a conversation...unless the disparity is tremendous.
   3. Astros Offensive Juggernaut Posted: March 29, 2010 at 05:10 PM (#3487957)
"But it’s important to remember that sabermetrics is always moving forward (or at least striving to move forward), and from time-to-time new and better methods will be developed. If and when there is a backlash to those newer methods simply because they are new, then ERA+ and OPS+ and the other statistics have simply become a new-age version of BA, HR, RBI, Wins--numbers celebrated for their own sake, rather than for what they tell us about the game."

NewCokeERA# is not a sabermetric advance on ERA+. It is just showing the same information in a different format. Using standard deviations or defense-independent ERA is a sabermetric advance.

Runs Created or OPS or EQA were all advances on batting average and RBI because they used different information and in different ways.

Post 2 is correct. ERA+ isn't a hardcore sabermetric tool, it's just a handy approximation that takes offensive levels and parks into account.

Interestingly, the article shows that ERA+ can actually be used to provide a run ratio that can be plugged into a Pythagorean estimator to get an estimated winning percentage for a pitcher.

I did not know that, and I haven't heard anyone use that as a point in its favor.

Sabermetrics has already moved forward beyond ERA. Tinkering with ERA+ is going backwards.
   4. DCA Posted: March 29, 2010 at 05:21 PM (#3487971)
Using standard deviations or defense-independent ERA is a sabermetric advance.

Yes to defense-independent ERA: if you focus on what it does say (instead of, as most critics do, what it doesn't), it's a tremendously useful tool.

No to standard deviations: this seems to me to be similar to WPA ... oh look, I measured something with fancy math, it must have meaning!
   5. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: March 29, 2010 at 05:29 PM (#3487989)
No to standard deviations: this seems to me to be similar to WPA ... oh look, I measured something with fancy math, it must have meaning!

It's not at all like WPA. It actually tells you something meaningful about how difficult it was to amass the stats.

It is not at all clear that an ERA or an OPS 50% better than league average in 2010 is the same relative performance as that stat in 1950. But, to the extent that the underlying stats are normally distributed, an ERA 2 SD's better than league average should be comparable across eras.
   6. Best Dressed Chicken in Town Posted: March 29, 2010 at 05:39 PM (#3487999)
Does anyone here really think OPS+ is all you need to know about a hitter? Or ERA+ pitcher?

I only ever see them used as a rough number to start a conversation...unless the disparity is tremendous.


I somewhat disagree. I think a lot of people do believe OPS+, in combination with playing time, tells you most of what you need to know. Pretty sure there are HOM voters who mostly base ratings on OPS+ (in conjunction with PT and position). And people who do admit that Player X's baserunning, defense, etc add a lot of value will still say something like "that can't possibly overcome 30 points of OPS+!" though I don't think they have any idea what 30 points of OPS+ even means, besides being a big number.
   7. The importance of being Ernest Riles Posted: March 29, 2010 at 05:47 PM (#3488020)
an OPS 50% better

If this is what people think a 150 OPS+ (and a lot of people do - Ken Rosenthal makes this mistake all the time), they really need to be reminded that

OPS+ = OBP/lgOBP + SLG/lgSLG - 1. An OPS 50% above the league average, if the OBP and SLG scale at the same rate as for league average plays, means a 200 OPS+. A 150 OPS+ means ~25% better than league average.
   8. Sean Forman Posted: March 29, 2010 at 06:59 PM (#3488111)
I can not ####### believe how much hoopla this two day error caused.
   9. Best Dressed Chicken in Town Posted: March 29, 2010 at 08:22 PM (#3488172)
Take it as a compliment. People see B-R as the source for stats, and really care about it being "right."
   10. Voros McCracken, Human Shield Posted: March 29, 2010 at 08:30 PM (#3488186)
I can not ####### believe how much hoopla this two day error caused.

Unfamiliar with the internet, Sean? :D
   11. Designated Sitter (GGC) Posted: March 29, 2010 at 08:39 PM (#3488194)
Be thankful, Sean. I could write about Jeff Francouer, Roger Clemens, Steve Malkmus, and Tim Lincecum appearing in an off-off-Broadway version of Atlas Shrugged (How far off Broadway? Try Neshoba County.) and no one would notice me.
   12. RJ in TO Posted: March 29, 2010 at 08:45 PM (#3488203)
I can not ####### believe how much hoopla this two day error caused.


Like you've never been burned in effigy before.
   13. Tuque Posted: March 29, 2010 at 09:03 PM (#3488226)
As a relatively intelligent but not super sabermetrically inclined fan, I'd just like to see both ERA+ and aERA listed on Baseball-Reference - at least for a long adjustment period, at least. ERA#'s desire to show higher-as-better seems unnecessary to me. But I'm just a random guy on a baseball board who doesn't even go by his real name, so I don't mind what the final decision is.

But I'd like to say that everyone - Harold, Tango, etc. - has been very good at clearly explaining the new formulation to me, and what I didn't understand about the old one, so thanks for that.

(I'm only saying this because I got kind of bent out of shape when it was changed before.)
   14. Karl from NY Posted: March 29, 2010 at 11:29 PM (#3488349)
OPS+ = OBP/lgOBP + SLG/lgSLG - 1. An OPS 50% above the league average, if the OBP and SLG scale at the same rate as for league average plays, means a 200 OPS+. A 150 OPS+ means ~25% better than league average.


A 150 OPS+ means that OBP and SLG are each 25% better than league average, or some combination that adds up to 50%. And it so happens that because of the interdependent nature of offensive events, if a team raises OBP and SLG each by 25%, that will add roughly 50% to overall team scoring. Stated very roughly, you put 25% more runners on base, and drive in 25% more of all your runners that reach base. So a 150 OPS+ does represent 50% more runs, both at the team level and for an individual player. Player X with a 150 OPS+ will drive in 25% more of the runners on in front of him, and get himself on base to get driven in by his teammates 25% more often too.

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