Well...

Has Boston groomed a replacement?

Terry Francona wants out of Beantown

Why? Did something bad happen?

If Francora leaves this year, I don't think he manages for the next few seasons.

Has Boston groomed a replacement?

Bobby Valentine's hair always looks very carefully arranged.

Has Boston groomed a replacement?

Guys like Brad Mills and John Farrell came from Francora's coaching tree, but hasn't found success yet. I wouldn't be surprised if the Red Sox decide to pick somebody the opposite of Francora. Like say, Joe Torre.

Terry Francona wants out of Beantown

Why? Did something bad happen?

i must be punchy or something cuz this really made me laugh.

I would too if I were him. Managed the first world championship in 90 years? Followed that up by winning it all again?

One bad collapse and everyone wants to get rid of him. You deserve better than that, Francona.

The only managerial candidate that I'm in intrigued by as a White Sox fan is Dave Martinez. I think Joe Maddon is a good manager, but that perception may be clouded by the Rays' terrific player development system. Either way, as a kid I liked watching Martinez hit, with his choked-up bat & lack of batting gloves.

I wouldn't be opposed to hiring Sandy Alomar or Francona either. The Sox clubhouse seems pretty stable, so whatever manager they bring in won't have to deal with a whole bunch of conflicting personalities or cliques (that I know of). As long as he's able to turn Rios, Dunn, & Beckham back into major league-caliber hitters, I'll be happy.

Guys like Brad Mills and John Farrell came from Francora's coaching tree, but hasn't found success yet. I wouldn't be surprised if the Red Sox decide to pick somebody the opposite of Francora. Like say, Joe Torre.

How is Joe Torre the opposite of Francona? I'd be hard pressed to think of a manager more similar to Francona than Torre.

The airing of dirty laundry begins ...

Ellsbury is a 2007 alum and an MVP candidate, a magnificent player with the brightest future of them all. His teammates like and admire him, but he keeps to himself, confides only in Jed Lowrie.

Can you blame him? His teammate two or three lockers to his left continued, as recently as two months ago, to publicly question Ellsbury's decision to retreat to Arizona last summer for treatment for broken ribs. Kevin Youkilis has always been a hot button. On occasion, his intensity and his honesty were his biggest assets, but not this season. The injured Youkilis showed up every day the way he wanted Ellsbury to, but he turned so sour and cynical that his carping and insistence on inserting himself into other people's affairs turned him into a detriment.

Then we have Ortiz, who had a redemptive season on the diamond. He has long been credited for galvanizing the Latino players and justifiably so, but he didn't seem to grasp how damaging it was to publicly question whether Alfredo Aceves should be a starter instead of a reliever, and how it undermined both the manager and the general manager at a critical time of the year.

Terry Francona acknowledged Thursday that this was not his best season in terms of handling his ballplayers. "At times we didn't put our best foot forward, and that's my responsibility,'' he said.

As someone who hasn't followed the soap opera too closely, why would Francona have decided a month ago, when the Red Sox looked like a lock to make the postseason, that he wanted out?

I want to see Francona throw a change-up, announcing he’s going back to his alma mater and taking over Arizona’s baseball program.

The indication from the press conference today (reading tea leaves/body language/between lines/etc.) is that Francona feels the clubhouse is a mess--something he also partially blamed himself for, I'll add--and I don't think he feels he has it in him to stick around and deal with it next year unless major changes happen... but those major changes may not happen.

I do believe Theo when he said/implied he'd like to retain Francona; I just don't think Francona wants to stick around--either that or he feels there is no really good pathway to getting the situation back to where he feels its tenable.

Maybe Theo changes his mind in the next few days. They have 10 days to exercise the option, but just because the option isn't exercised, it doesn't mean Francona can't come back for 2012--just that it would be on different terms than his existing contract/the options dictate.

Some saw this as a negotiating tactic today--he knows Theo wants him to stay, but he also knows even if just the two options for 2012 and 2013 are picked up he might be seen as weak because he didn't get a new, long-term deal... Maybe there's merit to that (and this "source" could be part of the strategy too).

White Sox certainly makes sense as a landing point, but wouldn't Chicago be even farther from his suburban Philly home than Boston is? I wouldn't be surprised if--mainly for health reasons--Francona just hangs 'em up instead of taking another managing job.

#11--There have been enough rumblings this year in the press about using Youkilis as trade bait that I have to think the FO has soured on him somewhat. Were he not injured, I have no doubts they would have tried to deal him this season if they could have used him as a chip in a F-ing A trade. Youk may be one of those people the FO thinks wasn't in shape enough to get through a full season...

The Ortiz/Aceves thing is interesting... But mainly because I suspect the starting staff took this as a big ol' FU and that was more the problem than anything else. (To be fair, Therapudians gave a big ol' FU to the starting staff for most of the past month too.) Hence, Ortiz isn't pulling the oars in the same direction as his teammates, etc...

Oh, there will be a lot more to come on many fronts... This is going to be the press' wet dream of backstabbing teammates, etc... the one they've waited for for 8+ years now.

I think this is more of a mutual thing than Francona "wanting out" or Theo wanting to get rid of him. It's time for a change, and everyone knows it.

I imagine he'll end up as a consultant or scout either for the Red Sox or Phillies (at least in the short term).

Guillen. Francona. McKeon.

They're clearing the deck of a lot of the 21st century World Series champion managers.

Edes Weighs In

Beckett was an ordinary pitcher this season.

Guh. What Jackie?

From the link in #18:

A veteran Sox player, in the wake of Wednesday's devastating loss in Baltimore, said the Sox clubhouse had "zero" chemistry with too many "me-me-me" guys.

Yup. The forecast calls for backstabbing quotes, with a 95% chance of anonymous sources.

Man, it started earlier than I thought. I'm sure we'll get the extra back-stabby stuff if/when guys start getting moved.

Tito was a damn good manager for most of his tenure, doing the important things well. At the same time, I doubt he'd be a good manager for the club in future years. Best of luck to him, and thanks for 04 and 07.

The forecast calls for backstabbing quotes, with a 95% chance of anonymous sources.

I'm not anonymous.

And that's 99.4%

It's only a matter of time before the Lackey-Wakefield love triangle comes out.

It's only a matter of time before the beatification of Fran...awww, #### it's already started.

Rosenthal is also reporting roughly the same thing, too, so this appears to have legs.

FOX Sports: Francona expected to leave Red Sox

I watched that press conference and it appeared that Francona wanted to be anywhere else than sitting with Epstein. Funny how the Red Sox always seem to veer into 25 cabs for 25 players territory. Is it the water, those narrow seats at Fenway, or the ghost of Frazee?

I have defended Francona, but this makes some sense. Francona could do media stuff for a year if he wants and then land a good gig.

Some of the BTF Boston guys said they expected some stuff to come out about clubhouse issues. Looks like they may have been right.

The only managerial candidate that I'm in intrigued by as a White Sox fan is Dave Martinez

So, former sub-replacement level Expo players are the new managerial market efficiency?

Sure, Johnny Paredes would listen if the Red Sox called.

Bobby Valentine's hair always looks very carefully arranged.

Please, Santa, please please please.

Man, he's only 52? He looks like a broken-down grandpa.

Man, he's only 52? He looks like a broken-down grandpa.

He's had some very serious health problems - he had a DVT, and somehow the treatment or surgery for the clotting went wrong, and he now has to be on quite strong anti-clotting medication at all times. It's why he wears a sweatshirt in the dugout - his blood is thinned and he catches a chill very easily.

Not sure I'm buying this "I was gonna leave anyway, before the bad September" business.

First reaction: this would be a big mistake. Hope I am mistaken.

Not sure I'm buying this "I was gonna leave anyway, before the bad September" business.

I don't either. I'm sure he was considering it - Francona has health problems and set-for-life money, plus surely many opportunities for a job in baseball that doesn't involve this kind of travel or insane stress. My guess is these things are related - when the clubhouse went to #### in September, his job went from difficult and stressful to simply a terrible job, and his earlier thoughts about leaving hardened into a plan.

I kind of think Tito was just too good a guy to manage for life.

Teddy - you've talked a lot about how real clubhouse stuff is. The 2011 Sox seem like a case study in that, and both Tito and Theo were quite clear at their press conference that they believe clubhouse problems were a central factor in the collapse. What do you think the manager's job is, if not to manage the clubhouse and either prevent those problems or fix them? How do you expect to fix the clubhouse problems without some significant personnel overhaul? It seems to me that moving on from the manager who lost the clubhouse - while finding a way to let a good man and a good manager leave with his dignity intact - is one of the simplest, best ways to get going on that overhaul.

More shots from Ft. Fenway:

According to multiple sources with knowledge of the meeting, Francona was in part annoyed over complaints about the buses to the ballpark and wanted players to focus their energy more positively.

Meanwhile, a number of players put themselves into a position to have their professionalism called into question. According to multiple sources, more than one pitcher drank beer in the clubhouse during games on the days he didn't pitch

Meanwhile, a number of players put themselves into a position to have their professionalism called into question. According to multiple sources, more than one pitcher drank beer in the clubhouse during games on the days he didn't pitch

Terrible. You put whiskey in your coffee dumbasses. Beer's too hard to disguise.

And, BTW, why do the Red Sox provide beer in the clubhouse before/during games? Isn't that odd for a workplace? For the postgame spread, sure. But do they have a stocked fridge the rest of the time? Or are players showing up yo work with coolers?

Wouldn't you be drinking if you had to watch that September?

Dale - link?

Meanwhile, a number of players put themselves into a position to have their professionalism called into question. According to multiple sources, more than one pitcher drank beer in the clubhouse during games on the days he didn't pitch

Beckett and... who?

I think Francona was great and that it is probably time to move on.

Beckett and... who?

I kinda hate myself for indulging in gossip and speculating but....my guess is Lackey. How else would one cope with a shtty two years?

Beckett and... who?

Lackey

Meanwhile, a number of players put themselves into a position to have their professionalism called into question. According to multiple sources, more than one pitcher drank beer in the clubhouse during games on the days he didn't pitch

So? WTF is the problem here? I too enjoy beers while watching baseball games.

I wouldn't mind seeing Tito here in Washington.

Dale - link?

Tomase that bastion of journalism, the Herald.

So? WTF is the problem here? I too enjoy beers while watching baseball games.

Yeah, it's not like they were drinking in the dugout or the bullpen.

This chart from ESPN hits hard:

Highest Combined Payroll Since 2009 + Payroll Since 2009 + Playoff Wins in Span

Yankees $610,471,606 16*
Red Sox $445,955,807 0
Phillies $427,908,804 14*
Cubs $406,465,329 0
Mets $402,644,238 0
Angels $357,216,032 5
Tigers $343,650,304 0*
White Sox $329,387,500 0
Dodgers $299,961,607 4
Giants $299,866,116 11

So? WTF is the problem here? I too enjoy beers while watching baseball games.

this isn't serious, right?

First reaction: this would be a big mistake. Hope I am mistaken.

For the White Sox, Red Sox or both?

#51: Red Sox.