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Wednesday, January 16, 2013

WaPo: Kilgore: Nationals trade Morse for Cole in 3-team deal

Man without a position Mike “Michael” Morse goes to Seattle, the place where it all began for him

Oakland’s AJ Cole returns to the Nationals, in a Gio Gonzalez-esque reversal, having left last year in exchange for Gio Gonzalez

2012 Mariners’ best hitter by far, John Jaso, goes to Oakland

Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: January 16, 2013 at 07:59 PM | 167 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: athletics, mariners, nationals

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   1. Austin Posted: January 16, 2013 at 08:21 PM (#4348534)
I can't say I recall ever seeing a three-team trade that involved only three players.
   2. Swedish Chef Posted: January 16, 2013 at 08:23 PM (#4348536)
Not here either, the Nats gets two other prospect from the A's.
   3. Esoteric Posted: January 16, 2013 at 08:34 PM (#4348540)
Wow. The ironies here are quite funny, in that the Mariners are getting Morse, whom they traded to the Nationals a couple years ago, and the Nationals are getting Cole, who they just sent to Oakland. Turns out you can go home again.

Good luck hitting in Safeco, Mikey.
   4. Willie Mayspedes Posted: January 16, 2013 at 08:34 PM (#4348541)
I think the Nats get another "good" prospect from the Marners and a PTBNL from the A's. How is Jaso's defense? His hitting line last year was really good with a 144 OPS+.
   5. Esoteric Posted: January 16, 2013 at 08:37 PM (#4348546)
This is not a good trade for the Mariners, by the way. John Jaso is/was one of the few pieces on the team I would not have traded away for pretty much any reason.
   6. Rafael Bellylard: A failure of the waist. Posted: January 16, 2013 at 08:38 PM (#4348547)
If the Chef is accurate, the A's gave up Cole and two other prospects for Jaso. This seems like a massive overpay for a platoon catcher.

EDIT: Apparently Esoteric and I have differing thoughts on Jaso's worth.
   7. Dave Spiwak Posted: January 16, 2013 at 08:39 PM (#4348548)
So the Nationals turned Cole into Cole and Gonzales, right? And for Seattle, it's Morse - Jaso = Morse + 1/2 season of Ryan Langerhans. And the A's gave up Gonzales and Cole to get Jaso, Tommy Milone, Derek Norris and Brad Peacock. It will be interesting to see the PTBNL(s).
   8. Pleasant Nate (Upgraded from 'Nate') Posted: January 16, 2013 at 08:40 PM (#4348549)
If last year is even 80% of the real Jaso, that's a bad trade for the Mariners. Jack Z continues to disappoint.
   9. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: January 16, 2013 at 08:45 PM (#4348553)
They don't like it at USS Mariner:


This is Jack’s worst trade. This is worse than the Fister deal. This is just a straight up downgrade. The Mariners are worse off for having made this swap.
   10. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: January 16, 2013 at 08:47 PM (#4348554)
Well, this is unexpected. Not sure what to think about this. Jaso really crushes right handed pitching but his defense is meh at best. Kottaras also bats left but isn't as impressive against righties. The jury is still out on Norris but he at least is a right handed hitter. I can't see the A's keeping Kottaras and Jaso. Mariners fans seem to hate this trade.
   11. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 16, 2013 at 08:49 PM (#4348556)
Hate it for Seattle. Washington vs. Oakland is hard to tell. Jaso has real value (no catchers can hit), but who knows what Cole is going to be.
   12. Danny Posted: January 16, 2013 at 08:49 PM (#4348557)
I'd rather have Jaso for three years than Morse for one, but Cole seems like a steep price for the part-time upgrade from Kottaras.
So the Nationals turned Cole into Cole and Gonzales, right?

Not really.
   13. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: January 16, 2013 at 08:51 PM (#4348558)
The picture in TFA is great. Morse looks like he outweighs LaRoche by 180 pounds. Clear implication of "Hey readers, the guy on the right is the one they chose to keep".
   14. Esoteric Posted: January 16, 2013 at 08:57 PM (#4348566)
The picture in TFA is great. Morse looks like he outweighs LaRoche by 180 pounds. Clear implication of "Hey readers, the guy on the right is the one they chose to keep".
I think Nats fandom was pretty much of one united mind in preferring LaRoche over Morse in terms of the guy we wanted playing 1B. Morse is a butcher on defense, LaRoche is a legit gold-glover. And they both have health issues, so that's a draw.
   15. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: January 16, 2013 at 08:59 PM (#4348568)
I'd rather have Jaso for three years than Morse for one, but Cole seems like a steep price for the part-time upgrade from Kottaras.

I'm surprised they would dump a pitching prospect, too. Very un-A's like these days. I really don't get this from the M's POV since they already acquired Morales. Looks like another Sounders summer in Seattle.
   16. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: January 16, 2013 at 09:03 PM (#4348570)
Blake Treinen to DC - sickels rated him a C (not in OAK top 20, some sleeper potential but old for league)
   17. Rennie's Tenet Posted: January 16, 2013 at 09:06 PM (#4348572)
I can't say I recall ever seeing a three-team trade that involved only three players.


On June 15, 1982, the Phils traded Dick Davis to the Blue Jays for Wayne Nordhagen, who was passed to the Pirates for Bill Robinson. To thicken the plot, I think Nordhagen turned out to be injured, so the Blue Jays sent Davis to Pittsburgh on June 22, and the Pirates completed the deal by sending Nordhagen back to the Blue Jays on the 25th.

Edit: all three players were out of the majors by the middle of 1983.

   18. Rafael Bellylard: A failure of the waist. Posted: January 16, 2013 at 09:08 PM (#4348576)
I think the A's had kind given up on Cole after this horrible half-year at AA.
   19. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 16, 2013 at 09:16 PM (#4348586)
I can't see the A's keeping Kottaras and Jaso.

Kottaras has been DFA'd to make room on the 40-man.

I wonder if the Yankees would have any interest?
   20. Jim Wisinski Posted: January 16, 2013 at 09:26 PM (#4348595)
I believe the Rays/Jays/Rockies swap of Joe Kennedy, Mark Hendrickson, and either Speier or Frasor only involved those three players.

I would expect Morse to outhit Jaso next season, there's little reason to expect Jaso to reach those heights again. As for his defense behind the plate he worked hard and improved it to acceptably below-average in 2010 but seemed to completely lose those gains in 2011 and was crap. I believe that's why the Rays gave up on him.
   21. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: January 16, 2013 at 09:31 PM (#4348597)
18 - I don't, but I'm also pro-cole.
   22. asinwreck Posted: January 16, 2013 at 09:34 PM (#4348598)
Heh. The Sox traded Gio Gonzalez to the Phillies in the Jim Thome trade, got him back for Freddy Garcia, then shipped him out again for Nick Swisher. The Nationals gave up Cole for Gio, then got Cole back for Morse.

Cole's going to the Indians for Swisher next winter. Then the Indians will trade Cole to the Nats for Gio.
   23. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 16, 2013 at 09:35 PM (#4348600)
I would expect Morse to outhit Jaso next season, there's little reason to expect Jaso to reach those heights again.

Jaso has a career 125 wRC+ (116 overall) vs. RHP in 897 PAs. That's really good for a C.

He doesn't need to repeat the 143 wRC+ to be really valuable, especially if you platoon his aggressively.
   24. zachtoma Posted: January 16, 2013 at 09:51 PM (#4348615)
I really think M's fans are overrating Jaso. He isn't really much, and his 2012 season looks more like a fluke season by a 28 year-old playing part-time than a breakout - I mean, isn't that obvious? Morse is a lot more talented of a hitter than Jaso, hopefully Safeco doesn't kill his power entirely.
   25. Mike Emeigh Posted: January 16, 2013 at 10:00 PM (#4348625)
Nats are getting Blake Treinen and a PTBNL. Treinen is a 24-YO RHP drafted in the 7th round in 2011 who had kind of a "meh" first full year at Stockton. Good, not great, fastball, secondary pitches are works in process.

Jaso's underrated, but having watched a lot of him at Durham I think (a) he's quite a bit worse as a catcher than the guys at USS Mariner seem to think and (b) he really can't hit LHP. Kottaras is a worse hitter, though, and a not-much-better catcher, so this works out OK for the A's.

-- MWE
   26. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 16, 2013 at 10:18 PM (#4348631)
I really think M's fans are overrating Jaso. He isn't really much, and his 2012 season looks more like a fluke season by a 28 year-old playing part-time than a breakout - I mean, isn't that obvious? Morse is a lot more talented of a hitter than Jaso, hopefully Safeco doesn't kill his power entirely.

Morse has a career 127 wRC+ vs 116 for Jaso. Comparing a DH (or butcher at 1B or in LF) to a C, that is not a more talented hitter.

Add in that Jaso is Arb 1 (controlled through 2015) and Morse is a FA after 2013, making $7M, and it isn't really close.

Jaso has much, much more value. And, since Seattle isn't a contender, the deal makes no sense.
   27. zachtoma Posted: January 16, 2013 at 10:19 PM (#4348632)
Morse has a career 127 wRC+ vs 116 for Jaso. Comparing a DH (or butcher at 1B or in LF) to a C, that is not a more talented hitter.


Yeah that's exactly what he is. The Mariners can use the DH, or put him at 1st or in the OF. They have Montero to catch.
   28. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 16, 2013 at 10:22 PM (#4348634)
Yeah that's exactly what he is. The Mariners can use the DH, or put him at 1st or in the OF. They have Montero to catch.

They already got Morales to DH, and they don't like Montero at C. A team with Jaso at C and Morales at DH is better than a team with Morse at DH and Montero at C.

And again, Morse is gone after 2013. Jaso is controlled through 2015.
   29. Walt Davis Posted: January 16, 2013 at 10:30 PM (#4348638)
I really think M's fans are overrating Jaso.

Can you blame them? He can actually hit the ball out of the infield. That makes him the greatest Ms hitter of the 2010s.

This looks a bit worse for Seattle anyway. Morse is a year away from FA and costs $6.5 this year. Jaso has 3 arb years left and given he's never had more than 400 PA, those are gonna be pretty cheap. I can see Morse for Jaso straight up but not 1 kinda expensive year of Morse for 3 years of Jaso. At least this is a "should be DH" for "should be DH" swap which maintains the Ms "should be DH" count at 19.

I've got no idea on the "prospects" but three "prospects" for Jaso still seems too much. Also he's a "big name" A's acquisition which guarantees he'll be hitting 150/180/135 through May.

Meanwhile the Nats don't seem to have gotten anything that will help them this year. Unless he was gonna groan about it, holding onto Morse was probably their best option.

So, finally a trade that everybody loses. :-)
   30. zachtoma Posted: January 16, 2013 at 10:30 PM (#4348639)
Well, the best days of both players lie in the past I suspect, so this deal might not amount to very much in the end. (Or, what #29 said). If I were the Nats I might have sat out on LaRoche and let Morse be the 1B.
   31. BourbonSamurai Is a Lazy Nogoodnik Posted: January 16, 2013 at 10:32 PM (#4348641)
WHo is the PNTBL to the Nats? Why a PNTBL at this point in the year? My only thought is either somebody who got drafted in June, or the PNTBL is Kottaras on the understanding the Nats can flip Suzuki and commit to Ramos (or vice versa)
   32. Guapo Posted: January 16, 2013 at 10:43 PM (#4348647)
And again, Morse is gone after 2013.


Take on me
Take me on
I'll be gone
In a day or two
   33. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: January 16, 2013 at 10:44 PM (#4348648)
So does this mean the Mariners think Jesus Montero can catch? I assume Morales is at 1B, Ibanez is at DH, Morse is in RF and Saunders in LF? Or will the Mariners bat four DHs?
   34. BourbonSamurai Is a Lazy Nogoodnik Posted: January 16, 2013 at 10:49 PM (#4348651)

Take on me
Take me on
I'll be gone
In a day or two


It will make me sad to miss this. One of my favorite moments of the year was going late in the season after having been overseas for a bit and hearing the crowd erupt into that song instead of the little trickles of people you would hear earlier in the year. A real "this fan base has arrived" moment.
   35. Mike Emeigh Posted: January 16, 2013 at 10:53 PM (#4348652)
Kottaras wouldn't be the PTBNL; there'd be no reason for a delay at this time of year. He doesn't have to clear waivers in order to be traded at this time of year, which is the only reason a player on the 40-man would be a PTBNL.

Usually, when a deal is made for a PTBNL at this time of year it's either because the player can't be traded (as in the case of a prior June draftee, as noted) or because you can't quite come to a final agreement on a specific player. Usually in the latter case the team giving up the PTBNL will put together a list and the team receiving the PTBNL has time to evaluate the players on the list (up to six months) before they select one.

-- MWE
   36. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 16, 2013 at 10:53 PM (#4348653)
So does this mean the Mariners think Jesus Montero can catch? I assume Morales is at 1B, Ibanez is at DH, Morse is in RF and Saunders in LF? Or will the Mariners bat four DHs?

Are they completely giving up on Smoak?

Playing Ibanez, Morales and Morse (all of whom are FA after 2013) and burying Smoak seems really short-sighted.
   37. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: January 16, 2013 at 10:57 PM (#4348657)
Didn't the Blue Jays and Phillies once make a trade involving Mickey Morandini where the PTBNL was Mickey Morandini?

EDIT: Looks like it was Rob Ducey and it wasn't exactly Ducey-for-Ducey. His baseball-reference transaction list is still pretty funny:

July 26, 2000: Traded by the Philadelphia Phillies to the Toronto Blue Jays for a player to be named later. The Toronto Blue Jays sent John Sneed (minors) (July 31, 2000) to the Philadelphia Phillies to complete the trade.
August 7, 2000: the Toronto Blue Jays sent Rob Ducey to the Philadelphia Phillies to complete an earlier deal made on August 5, 2000. August 5, 2000: The Toronto Blue Jays sent a player to be named later to the Philadelphia Phillies for Mickey Morandini.
   38. eddieot Posted: January 16, 2013 at 10:57 PM (#4348658)
R.I.P. Justin Smoak. And how he is he not a throw-in in this deal?

edit to add a Coke for Snapper.
   39. boteman digs the circuit clout Posted: January 16, 2013 at 11:03 PM (#4348661)
Unless he was gonna groan about it, holding onto Morse was probably their best option.

Morse was quoted a few days ago as saying he absolutely, positively does NOT want to DH. The only groaning from him was that he wanted to stay in D.C. and looking at his transition in this trade I can't say that I blame him.
   40. Mike Emeigh Posted: January 16, 2013 at 11:08 PM (#4348664)
Didn't the Blue Jays and Phillies once make a trade involving Mickey Morandini where the PTBNL was Mickey Morandini?


No, the PTBNL was Rob Ducey, who had been sent by the Phillies to the Jays two weeks earlier.

In 1982, there was this sequence of deals in a 10-day span in June:

1. Blue Jays trade Wayne Nordhagen to Phillies for Dick Davis.
2. Phillies turn around immediately and trade Nordhagen to Pirates for Bill Robinson (who had been acquired by the Pirates several years earlier from the Phillies).
3. Pirates acquire Dick Davis from Blue Jays for PTBNL. Three days later, the Pirates send Nordhagen to the Blue Jays as the PTBNL.

Nordhagen got into exactly one game with the Pirates. Davis made three appearances with the Jays.

-- MWE
   41. Mike Emeigh Posted: January 16, 2013 at 11:15 PM (#4348672)
There have been times where a player has been traded for a PTBNL, then sent back to the original team as the PTBNL. Back in the early half of the century, teams would often trade for players on what was then called a "conditional deal"; if the acquiring team liked what they saw they'd keep the player and pay the trading team, otherwise they'd send the player back to his original team. These weren't always cast as PTBNL deals but would frequently end up that way.

Harry Chiti was traded by the Mets to the Indians in April 1962. When the Tribe and Mets couldn't agree on appropriate compensation, Chiti was returned to New York. This deal has been variously reported as a case where a player was "traded for himself", but that actually wasn't the intent.

-- MWE
   42. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 16, 2013 at 11:17 PM (#4348673)
Back in the early half of the century, teams would often trade for players on what was then called a "conditional deal"

Didn't they also engage in "loan" trades of minor leaguers, to get them more PT?
   43. boteman digs the circuit clout Posted: January 16, 2013 at 11:20 PM (#4348676)
From Adam Kilgore's interview with Morse in the Washington Post:

I’m going to a great organization, an organization that I know. I’m going back as a different player than I was before. I played shortstop there. I don’t know if they still want me there, but I can still play it. I might have put on a couple pounds since I played there then.


Ya think???

edit: Michael Morse as Mariners shortstop. Discuss.
   44. snowles Posted: January 16, 2013 at 11:27 PM (#4348683)
41, From Wiki, re: John McDonald:

He was traded to the Detroit Tigers on July 22 for future considerations... On November 10, 2005, the Tigers sent him back to the Toronto Blue Jays for cash considerations, in effect completing the earlier trade by trading John McDonald for himself. The only other player to be traded for "himself" in this manner was Harry Chiti in 1962.
   45. PS is probably going to survive his vacation Posted: January 16, 2013 at 11:52 PM (#4348705)
Morse as SS:
Over the last 3 years, his BR WAR has him being -14 runs and -18 position modifier in 346 games. That's about -14 runs/150 G. Since SS is about +7.5 runs, a quick estimate puts him at about -21 runs at SS. Factor in some unfamilarity, and more opportunities, and -25 to -30 is a better (and conservative) estimate.

So, worse than any real SS, but not Frank Thomas bad.
   46. The Ghost fouled out, but stays in the game Posted: January 17, 2013 at 12:00 AM (#4348711)
Hoping there's another Seattle move coming that will turn this into something that makes sense.
   47. base ball chick Posted: January 17, 2013 at 12:18 AM (#4348724)
seems to me that jack z hasn't done that well for the mariners

then again, everyone's bat gets Pedro Cerrano Disease the minnit they get to seattle don't ask me why
   48. Lassus Posted: January 17, 2013 at 12:20 AM (#4348725)
It will make me sad to miss this. One of my favorite moments of the year was going late in the season after having been overseas for a bit and hearing the crowd erupt into that song instead of the little trickles of people you would hear earlier in the year. A real "this fan base has arrived" moment.

Can someone explain this to me? A-ha is a thing in some MLB stadium?

I was at a Mets game in the LF bleachers when Morse was in LF a few years ago. Dude is as big as an oak tree.
   49. asinwreck Posted: January 17, 2013 at 12:31 AM (#4348736)

In 1982, there was this sequence of deals in a 10-day span in June:

1. Blue Jays trade Wayne Nordhagen to Phillies for Dick Davis.
2. Phillies turn around immediately and trade Nordhagen to Pirates for Bill Robinson (who had been acquired by the Pirates several years earlier from the Phillies).
3. Pirates acquire Dick Davis from Blue Jays for PTBNL. Three days later, the Pirates send Nordhagen to the Blue Jays as the PTBNL.

Nordhagen got into exactly one game with the Pirates. Davis made three appearances with the Jays.


Wayne Nordhagen had a back injury (which would end his career the following year), so the last leg of the trade was returning damaged goods.

He was well-traveled in '82-'83. The Jays got him from the Sox at the end of March '82 for Aurelio Rodriguez, and after he finished the season with the Jays, he signed on with the Cubs.
   50. zachtoma Posted: January 17, 2013 at 12:39 AM (#4348747)
seems to me that jack z hasn't done that well for the mariners

then again, everyone's bat gets Pedro Cerrano Disease the minnit they get to seattle don't ask me why


It's taken them a bit longer than expected to figure out that "next great innovation" in player evaluation, hasn't it? Then again, "players should be good at defense" was a major breakthrough - hard to say where the game would be today without Jack Z.
   51. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: January 17, 2013 at 12:41 AM (#4348750)
Can someone explain this to me? A-ha is a thing in some MLB stadium?

I never heard about it until a couple months ago when people started bemoaning the possibility that the Nats wouldn't bring him back, but apparently "Take On Me" is Morse's at-bat music.
   52. Esoteric Posted: January 17, 2013 at 12:45 AM (#4348756)
I never heard about it until a couple months ago when people started bemoaning the possibility that the Nats wouldn't bring him back, but apparently "Take On Me" is Morse's at-bat music.
It's not just that, it's that the entire stadium would join in with singing the chorus, until everyone jumped into their best falsetto for the "I'll be gooooone...in a day or twoooooooooooooo..." part. It actually sounded quite remarkable (imagine 30,000 haunting yet surprisingly tuneful banshees, all wailing at once) and was a delightfully eccentric variation on the typical uber-macho stuff that plays for batters during their walk-ups.


The rule at Nats Park was that "Take On Me" was only played when Morse came to bat in the 6th inning or later.
   53. Lassus Posted: January 17, 2013 at 12:53 AM (#4348762)
Hmmmm... thanks guys. I feel like I should have known that.
   54. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: January 17, 2013 at 12:54 AM (#4348763)
That sounds pretty cool.

I haven't been this upset about the end of a sports fan tradition that I had never heard of when it existed since Doris From Rego Park died.
   55. bookbook Posted: January 17, 2013 at 01:17 AM (#4348776)
Jaso may suck defensively at catcher, but we M's fans are comparing him to Rob Johnson, Miguel Olivo, Montero, Chris Gimenez, etc,

We think he's a gold glover.

Of course, arguing a trade fir Mike Morse is a winner because of defense... It's a stretch. (but Morse can play short!)
   56. Walt Davis Posted: January 17, 2013 at 01:30 AM (#4348788)
Are they completely giving up on Smoak?

Not to mention Jason Bay.

I know, Ms fans wish I hadn't mentioned Jason Bay but it's just too much fun.
   57. Gaelan Posted: January 17, 2013 at 02:24 AM (#4348805)
So how did Morse go from being a minor league shortstop to a butcher at 1B? That doesn't compute.

That said, Morse is a really big guy. How was he ever a shortstop in the first place?
   58. Random Transaction Generator Posted: January 17, 2013 at 02:35 AM (#4348808)
I just came here to say that the music video for "Take On Me", even after 28 years, is still the best music video ever made.
   59. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: January 17, 2013 at 04:41 AM (#4348826)
I'd rather have Jaso for three years than Morse for one, but Cole seems like a steep price for the part-time upgrade from Kottaras.

Ya I'm with you. When I heard they traded Cole, I was cautiously excited that they were getting someone really good. Jaso is a bit of a letdown. I assume Jaso will start 2/3 of the time, but still....I was OK with Norris and Kottaras. They've now traded Gio for a catching platoon, a 2 WAR starter and Brad Peacock who may or may not ever do anything in the majors and if he does it probably won't be much. Taken as one deal it's trading a 4 WAR starter for complementary parts. I'm underwhelmed.
   60. zachtoma Posted: January 17, 2013 at 05:07 AM (#4348827)
Are they completely giving up on Smoak?


Why wouldn't they at this point? Although, hilariously, his hideous .227/.304/.382 line as a Mariner translates to a 96 OPS+. It's like 1968 at that stadium.
   61. eddieot Posted: January 17, 2013 at 09:26 AM (#4348858)
I haven't been this upset about the end of a sports fan tradition that I had never heard of when it existed since Doris From Rego Park died.

Joe Benigno's finest on-air moment.
   62. JJ1986 Posted: January 17, 2013 at 09:27 AM (#4348860)
How many ####### DHs does a team need? Are they going to play Ibanez, Morales and Montero in the field?
   63. Rants Mulliniks Posted: January 17, 2013 at 09:36 AM (#4348866)
Morse has to be the hugest man ever to play short regularly. He is a beast.
   64. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: January 17, 2013 at 09:45 AM (#4348871)
Another novelty is a 3-team trade that leaves all 3 teams' fans unhappy.

Mariners fans: Jaso was the first Mariners player to hit better than expected since Raul Ibanez. And we traded him for someone who's only under contract for one year? WTF

Oakland fans: I thought Cole was the centerpiece of our previous big trade where we sent away the staff ace. Now we traded him for an upgrade of half of our catching platoon, which we had just upgraded in July. WTF

Nationals fans: We don't get to sing the classic hits of the 80s anymore! :-(
   65. Chris Needham Posted: January 17, 2013 at 10:22 AM (#4348886)
[63] Who said HGH doesn't work!

___

It's a good enough return for Morse. But I still hate the idea of trading him, as I've whined about on other threads. With all the left-handed bats (and their positional versatility) there's a chance to get 400 solid ABs for him. Now, the team's top RH pinch-hitter is Tyler Moore (slugged in the minors, but I'm not sold) or slap-hitting Steve Lombardozzi.
   66. JE (Jason Epstein) Posted: January 17, 2013 at 10:49 AM (#4348899)
It's not just that, it's that the entire stadium would join in with singing the chorus, until everyone jumped into their best falsetto for the "I'll be gooooone...in a day or twoooooooooooooo..." part. It actually sounded quite remarkable (imagine 30,000 haunting yet surprisingly tuneful banshees, all wailing at once) and was a delightfully eccentric variation on the typical uber-macho stuff that plays for batters during their walk-ups.


The rule at Nats Park was that "Take On Me" was only played when Morse came to bat in the 6th inning or later.

His walk-up music selections in the earlier innings were also popular, at least to the younger fan base (e.g., Ivan Gough ("My Mind"), Calvin Harris ("You Used to Hold Me"), and Guru Josh Project ("Infinity")).
   67. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: January 17, 2013 at 11:23 AM (#4348940)
The timing of this deal and the Soriano deal seem to demonstrate that Rizzo is working with a strict salary cap for 2013.

Morse is due $6.75M this season. Soriano's contract was structured so that the Nats only owe him $7M this season, with the other half of the money deferred until after 2017. So with the Soriano signing and the Morse trade, projected 2013 contract outlays by the Nationals remain static.

I am not sure that this was a good use of resources. It is Soriano + minor leaguers to be weighed against Morse. I'd probably rather have depth at 1B/LF than in the bullpen, but relievers are hard to project.
   68. BourbonSamurai Is a Lazy Nogoodnik Posted: January 17, 2013 at 11:44 AM (#4348972)
It's not just that, it's that the entire stadium would join in with singing the chorus, until everyone jumped into their best falsetto for the "I'll be gooooone...in a day or twoooooooooooooo..." part. It actually sounded quite remarkable (imagine 30,000 haunting yet surprisingly tuneful banshees, all wailing at once) and was a delightfully eccentric variation on the typical uber-macho stuff that plays for batters during their walk-ups.


It was great, and I really enjoyed watching it grow from a few people doing it (there were one or two games where it was just me and my friends and people looking at us like we were insane) to massive, massive crowds.

Someone else needs to pick a ridiculous 80's song to come up to.

I am suggesting Bryce Harper and "everybody wants to rule the world".
   69. Joey B. is being stalked by a (Gonfa) loon Posted: January 17, 2013 at 11:49 AM (#4348977)
The timing of this deal and the Soriano deal seem to demonstrate that Rizzo is working with a strict salary cap for 2013...
So with the Soriano signing and the Morse trade, projected 2013 contract outlays by the Nationals remain static.


I don't know where you're getting your numbers from, but this isn't even close to being true.

Even with a bunch of Soriano's money being deferred, the team payroll this year is going to be somewhere in the neighborhood of $110-$115 million, a lot higher than the approximately $81 million of last season. That's going to end up as one of the biggest year-to-year increases in MLB this season.

Once they signed Span, it was always a foregone conclusion that one or the other of Morse and LaRoche wouldn't be on the roster this season. Morse's quite reasonable salary didn't have anything at all to do with it.
   70. Chokeland Bill Posted: January 17, 2013 at 11:59 AM (#4348984)
Isn't this basically a "win soon" trade for Oakland? While they can expect some regression from 2012 at a few spots, they also had lots of room to improve at 2b, SS, C, and pre-August 3b. Between Nakajima, Jaso, Donaldson maintaining a hint of his late season production, and the return of Sizemore/bounce-back from Weeks, they might have upgraded at all of those spots.
   71. bookbook Posted: January 17, 2013 at 11:59 AM (#4348985)
Howz about "Forever Young" by Alphaville? My freshman room mate played that song 5 times a day. He was probably Bryce's age ( and half his weight).
   72. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: January 17, 2013 at 12:09 PM (#4349005)
Someone else needs to pick a ridiculous 80's song to come up to.

I am suggesting Bryce Harper and "everybody wants to rule the world".


Andy LaRoche is available. He used "You're the best. Around! Nothing's ever gonna keep ya down!" with the Pirates.

As for the current roster I would suggest a Denard-DeBarge combo.
   73. Ron J2 Posted: January 17, 2013 at 12:17 PM (#4349014)
So how did Morse go from being a minor league shortstop to a butcher at 1B?


Steroids. Seriously, he's got two positive tests (second probably being for stuff that hadn't cleared his system from the first positive)
   74. McCoy Posted: January 17, 2013 at 12:22 PM (#4349026)
According to Cot's the Nationals' payroll last year was 92.5 million. Now 1.8 million of that went to Anthony Rendon but besides that it looks legit. Right now Cot's has them at 90 million. Well, they have them at 94.8 million but they are using Soriano's AAV instead of what they are actually paying him. Factor in arbitration players and so forth and the payroll is projected at somewhere around 110 million dollars for this year. An increase to be sure but mostly because their players have aged one year more than anything else.
   75. ColonelTom Posted: January 17, 2013 at 12:22 PM (#4349028)
I'm still bullish on Derek Norris, so I'm surprised Oakland is relegating him (presumably) to the short side of a platoon. Norris has hit RHP better than LHP over the last couple of years, which makes it stranger. Jaso's a good ballplayer, though.

As for the Mariners, did they move to a slow-pitch softball league when the Astros joined the AL West? I have no idea what they're doing with their "all your DHs are belong to us" strategy.
   76. Dan Posted: January 17, 2013 at 12:29 PM (#4349042)
Someone else needs to pick a ridiculous 80's song to come up to.


Dan Johnson used to use "Safety Dance" when he was on the Rays.
   77. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 17, 2013 at 12:33 PM (#4349044)
Norris has hit RHP better than LHP over the last couple of years

Given the SSS, you should probably just assume the standard splits for Norris.
   78. Esoteric Posted: January 17, 2013 at 12:34 PM (#4349046)
Suggestion for a great goofy '80s music walk-up song: "Bizarre Love Triangle."

Bonus points if the player uses the "Shep Pettibone Extended Dance Remix" version with all those cheesy orchestra hits and break-beats.
   79. JE (Jason Epstein) Posted: January 17, 2013 at 12:57 PM (#4349096)
Two words, folks: Kon Kan.
   80. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: January 17, 2013 at 01:28 PM (#4349136)
While [Oakland] can expect some regression from 2012 at a few spots, they also had lots of room to improve at 2b, SS, C, and pre-August 3b.

I must say, Chokeland Bill is displaying an impressive gift for understatement here.
   81. Ron J2 Posted: January 17, 2013 at 01:49 PM (#4349164)
#44 I recall that Dickie Noles to the Tigers in 1987 was reported as a "future considerations" deal at the time. I see it's now reported as a loan. (which is probably the truth. I recall it because it gave rise to a joke about trades of "future considerations" for "a player to be named later")
   82. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: January 17, 2013 at 01:49 PM (#4349166)
The 80's were such a terrible, terrible decade. Really the only good bands to start then were the Beastie Boys and Guns N' Roses. Just a wasteland of bad decisions.
   83. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 17, 2013 at 01:56 PM (#4349174)
The 80's were such a terrible, terrible decade. Really the only good bands to start then were the Beastie Boys and Guns N' Roses. Just a wasteland of bad decisions.

The '80s were great. A whole lot better than the last decade, that's for sure.
   84. esseff Posted: January 17, 2013 at 02:03 PM (#4349182)
June 1983: Orioles trade Floyd Rayford to the Cardinals for PTBNL, who two months later turns out to be Tito Landrum.
March 1984: Orioles trade Tito Landrum to Cardinals for minor leaguer. Cardinals sell Floyd Rayford to Orioles.

In between, Landrum hit an ALCS-winning homer for the O's.
   85. jobu Posted: January 17, 2013 at 02:04 PM (#4349183)
I just came here to say that the music video for "Take On Me", even after 28 years, is still the best music video ever made


Albeit one that is ridiculous and easily parodied.

I nominate "Total Eclipse of the Heart" as inappropriate '80s walk-up music.
   86. The Chronicles of Reddick Posted: January 17, 2013 at 02:21 PM (#4349196)

The '80s were great. A whole lot better than the last decade, that's for sure.


Snapper I assume you don't have Bieber fever?
   87. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: January 17, 2013 at 02:39 PM (#4349211)
The 80's were such a terrible, terrible decade. Really the only good bands to start then were the Beastie Boys and Guns N' Roses. Just a wasteland of bad decisions.

Not a fan of Nirvana, Public Enemy, Afrika Bambaataa, Bad Brains, Big Daddy Kane, Biz Markie, Bjork, Black Uhuru, Boogie Down Productions, De La Soul, Dwight Yoakam, Eric B and Rakim, Flaming Lips, Fugazi, Garth Brooks, Grandmaster Flash, Judds, Kurtis Blow, Lucinda Williams, Meat Puppets, Metallica, Minor Threat, Misfits, Minutemen, Motorhead, NWA, Oingo Boingo, Pastels, Randy Travis, Reba McIntyre, REM, Run-DMC, Salt-N-Pepa, Slayer, Smiths, Soft Boys, Sonic Youth, Steve Earle, Vaselines, Violent Femmes, Wham, Whitney Houston, or X it take it?
   88. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: January 17, 2013 at 02:43 PM (#4349219)
Why not an entire lineup of 80s at-bat music? Let's see what my iPod comes up with...

Span - Howard Jones, "Like To Get To Know You Well"
Harper - Jermaine Stewart, "Jody"
Zimmerman - Depeche Mode, "Personal Jesus"
LaRoche - Tom Tom Club, "Wordy Rappinghood"
Werth - Shalamar, "Just One Of The Guys" (theme song to the classic film)
Desmond - Haircut 100, "Love Plus One"
Espinosa - The System, "Don't Disturb This Groove"
Suzuki - Debbie Harry, "French Kissin' in the U.S.A."
Strasburg - Chaka Khan, "This Is My Night"
   89. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: January 17, 2013 at 02:44 PM (#4349221)
I can't think of a recent decade that doesn't feature twenty artists and a hundred songs I adore. All this generational oneupsmanship is dumb.
   90. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: January 17, 2013 at 02:52 PM (#4349231)
I can't think of a recent decade that doesn't feature twenty artists and a hundred songs I adore. All this generational oneupsmanship is dumb.

Yep.
I'm getting ready to head for a weekend-long softball tournament & was leaning toward Barbara Lewis' "Puppy Love" as my walk-up music.
NOW maybe I should reconsider. Expose, "Seasons Change"?
   91. asinwreck Posted: January 17, 2013 at 02:56 PM (#4349234)
Harper should come out to Hüsker Dü's "New Day Rising." Nats season-ticket holders would lose the top of their hearing range by Memorial Day.
   92. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: January 17, 2013 at 03:00 PM (#4349239)
Here goes:

Not a fan of Nirvana - 90's, Public Enemy - yes, Afrika Bambaataa - ok, Bad Brains - never heard of, Big Daddy Kane - nho, Biz Markie - yes, Bjork - 90's or 70's really, Black Uhuru - nho, Boogie Down Productions - nho, De La Soul - yes, Dwight Yoakam - no, Eric B and Rakim - yes, Flaming Lips - ok, Fugazi - yes, Garth Brooks - no, Grandmaster Flash - ok, Judds - nho, Kurtis Blow - ok, Lucinda Williams - no, Meat Puppets - ok, Metallica - i guess, Minor Threat - nho, Misfits - ok, Minutemen - nho, Motorhead - 70's, NWA - should definitely have included them, Oingo Boingo - no, Pastels - nho, Randy Travis - no, Reba McIntyre - no, REM - i guess, Run-DMC - ok, Salt-N-Pepa - no, Slayer - ok, Smiths - eh, Soft Boys - nho, Sonic Youth - ok, Steve Earle - nho, Vaselines - nho, Violent Femmes - no, Wham - no, Whitney Houston - no, or X - nho take it?

I will admit to leaving country music out of any consideration, I do realize it is successful and popular and all, but I dislike the style. And I grew up in a small New England town so rap, outside of NWA and Public Enemy, really didn't exist. Most of that 'yes' or 'ok' list I like now is from listening to them in the last 10 years.

I hate REM for no particular reason.
   93. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: January 17, 2013 at 03:05 PM (#4349242)
I'm getting ready to head for a weekend-long softball tournament & was leaning toward Barbara Lewis' "Puppy Love" as my walk-up music.
NOW maybe I should reconsider. Expose, "Seasons Change"?


Pet Shop Boys, "Domino Dancing"
   94. Danny Posted: January 17, 2013 at 03:17 PM (#4349255)
   95. Kurt Posted: January 17, 2013 at 03:33 PM (#4349270)
U2 counts as an 80's band; I don't care if they released an EP in Ireland in 1979.
   96. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: January 17, 2013 at 03:39 PM (#4349276)
I can't think of a recent decade that doesn't feature twenty artists and a hundred songs I adore. All this generational oneupsmanship is dumb.


In my day, music was for sh1t!
   97. Esoteric Posted: January 17, 2013 at 04:14 PM (#4349306)
Some great '80s bands:

New Order
U2
Sonic Youth
Talk Talk
R.E.M.
Husker Du
Minutemen
Echo & The Bunnymen (technically formed in '78, but first album was 1980)
XTC (hard to classify -- had great records in the late '70s, but bloomed in the '80s)
My Bloody Valentine
Tears For Fears
The Smiths
   98. Esoteric Posted: January 17, 2013 at 04:19 PM (#4349312)
Talk Talk, by the way, seems to me to be single most underrated band of the decade, full stop. The Colour Of Spring, Spirit Of Eden and Laughing Stock are quite simply some of the most compelling, transfixingly futuristic music ever made. Those three albums STILL sound 'modern' and relevant. Which is amazing, given how much most everything else from that era is amazingly dated in terms of production. The Colour Of Spring in particular is an unheralded masterpiece (hipsters warmly embrace Spirit Of Eden and Laughing Stock for their formative influence on post-rock like Tortoise and bands like Radiohead). There isn't a single note on that album I would discard, and "I Don't Believe In You" and "Time It's Time" simply flatten me.
   99. Dan Lee prefers good shortstops to great paintings Posted: January 17, 2013 at 04:26 PM (#4349316)
New Order
U2
Sonic Youth
Talk Talk
R.E.M.
Husker Du
Minutemen
Echo & The Bunnymen (technically formed in '78, but first album was 1980)
XTC (hard to classify -- had great records in the late '70s, but bloomed in the '80s)
My Bloody Valentine
Tears For Fears
The Smiths
Other great bands formed in the 80s: Fugazi, Nirvana (Bleach was released in 1989), Replacements, Black Flag.

edit to add: Didn't read closely enough. These were already mentioned.
   100. zachtoma Posted: January 17, 2013 at 04:33 PM (#4349324)
Talk Talk, by the way, seems to me to be single most underrated band of the decade, full stop. The Colour Of Spring, Spirit Of Eden and Laughing Stock are quite simply some of the most compelling, transfixingly futuristic music ever made. Those three albums STILL sound 'modern' and relevant. Which is amazing, given how much most everything else from that era is amazingly dated in terms of production. The Colour Of Spring in particular is an unheralded masterpiece (hipsters warmly embrace Spirit Of Eden and Laughing Stock for their formative influence on post-rock like Tortoise and bands like Radiohead). There isn't a single note on that album I would discard, and "I Don't Believe In You" and "Time It's Time" simply flatten me.


I heartily endorse every word of this post. Bark Psychosis, also a remarkable band, formed in the 80's and owes a lot to Talk Talk.
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