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Monday, May 28, 2012

WaPo: Nationals humiliate Braves in three-game sweep of collapsing club

Paging Sam Hutcheson, Sam Hutcheson to the white courtesy phone….

ATLANTA — Sunday night, when the Washington Nationals needed runs to break a tied score, a relic from their past lumbered in from left field. Livan Hernandez, the man who threw the first pitch in Nationals history, the soft-tosser who started opening day last year and became obsolete this year, emerged from the Atlanta Braves’ bullpen. The carnage that followed felt like a rally wrapped inside some kind of ritual, the Nationals at once pounding the Braves and further smashing their own history into dust.

The Nationals’ lambasting of Hernandez lifted them to a 7-2 victory at Turner Field and a resounding sweep of the Braves, their first this season after nine chances. Gio Gonzalez silenced the Braves with seven electric innings, striking out 10 while allowing one lonely hit. Gonzalez bettered Brandon Beachy, the major league ERA leader, who received little help from the collapsing team around him. [...]

[Gio] Gonzalez has staked an early claim to the top tier of the National League. He has a 2.04 ERA, a 7-1 record and leads the National League with 79 strikeouts. Gonzalez has allowed five or fewer hits in each of his last nine starts. In 612 / 3 innings, Gonzalez has yielded only 33 hits.

“Hopefully,” Harper said, “he can get a Cy Young this year.

Esoteric Posted: May 28, 2012 at 11:05 AM | 270 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: atlanta, washington

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   101. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: May 28, 2012 at 11:14 PM (#4141938)
Heyward will be a star someday, but he'll need to get away from the Braves hitting coaches first. He was fine until he got to the major league level and they got on him for being too patient. Once he escapes to an organization with some idea what they are talking about, he'll blossom.
   102. toratoratora Posted: May 28, 2012 at 11:27 PM (#4141941)
1-Fred Lynn was the best rookie I ever saw. The kid could do anything. I had visions of Willie Mays dancing in my head (In my defense, I was 8, so I didn't really know better.)

2-I'm shocked that Bryce would be considered over Mantle. I mean, Mantle's the gold standard when it comes to talented kids. But I do like the idea of 8 tools-I can see the point against the Mick there.

3-If I'm picking under 25'er's, I might be going with Stanton first. The kid is 23, has already hit 67 homers, is coming off 118 and 143 OPS years, has hit 11 homers this month and just tears the cover off the ball-real moon shots.He can even field a bit. What more could you want?
In order as of right now...
Stanton
Harper
Trout (Who, aiding his case,just launched one)

4-That said, Gawd, I love watching Harper play. I hate to sound all MSM and blither, but it seems as if every time I turn the TV on he's taking an extra base or making a phenomenal play in the OF or stealing home against Hamels (Probably gonna be my favorite moment of the season and it's only May)-the kid is a blast and has no only the complete package talent wise, but seems to have the smarts and the aggressiveness too.
   103. Walt Davis Posted: May 29, 2012 at 12:00 AM (#4141948)
If his stock has fallen that far, I would gladly salvage.

Who wouldn't? He's still a damn good ballplayer but, surprisingly, it's mostly because of defense. He had 2.4 WAR last year despite all the missed time and crappy hitting and is on a 3.5 WAR pace this year.

But, just about 15 months ago, I was heavily criticized by some here for daring to suggest his career would likely be somewhere just a bit short of Reggie or Stargell (which is about where ZiPS put him). Also he'll be arb eligible at the end of this year so his cheapness will begin wearing off.

Stanton is well above him at this point. Stanton's even got his K-rate down below 1 per 4 AB.
   104. baudib Posted: May 29, 2012 at 12:36 AM (#4141956)
I think Andy is correct and Harper is the most impressive rookie in baseball history.

Ignoring Doc Gooden, the most impressive 19-year-olds in baseball history are probably Mickey Mantle, Mel Ott, Ty Cobb and Ken Griffey Jr. Harper's outperforming those guys so far.
   105. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: May 29, 2012 at 12:49 AM (#4141960)
God, Josh Reddick is already too old to be in this conversation?
I hate everything.
   106. TerpNats Posted: May 29, 2012 at 12:57 AM (#4141963)
The Phillies mini-dynasty that is aging out of competitiveness these days was a truly talented team. The Nats of 2012 are not.
You might have said the same thing about the 2007 Phillies when their window was opening; that roster had some holes. So far, this year's Nats are doing what people foresaw from the 2013 edition of the team, despite an array of injuries that in previous years would have sent this team down the chute to oblivion. It's that "arriving ahead of schedule" that has people talking.
   107. boteman digs the circuit clout Posted: May 29, 2012 at 01:06 AM (#4141966)
Harper is exciting to watch run the bases and force defensive errors while doing it, but somebody has got to tell the kid that it's OK to hit his cutoff man. It seems that every time there's a runner on base--ANY base--he automatically throws home, often allowing other runners to advance farther than they otherwise would have. That cost the Nats yesterday, in particular.

A rough gem being polished in the bigs, but still a bit rough. It's pretty fun to watch the process unfold.
   108. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: May 29, 2012 at 01:26 AM (#4141967)
I've never really seen much of Jones play. I don't watch AL baseball.

See now, that's just some f*cked up sh*t. Why? Why don't you watch AL baseball. Hell, I like all baseball. I caught a bit of that Nats/Braves 3rd game on reply yesterday and it was great...and my favourite team is an AL team. I don't mind anyone being passionate and homer for their team, but this stance is just belligerent and ridiculous. If you are really a fan of baseball, it doesn't matter who is playing as long as the game played is played well.
   109. zachtoma Posted: May 29, 2012 at 03:29 AM (#4141969)
Heyward will be a star someday, but he'll need to get away from the Braves hitting coaches first. He was fine until he got to the major league level and they got on him for being too patient. Once he escapes to an organization with some idea what they are talking about, he'll blossom.


Yikes, I think there is more truth in this than I would like to admit.
   110. Walt Davis Posted: May 29, 2012 at 05:54 AM (#4141980)
Yikes, I think there is more truth in this than I would like to admit.

I wouldn't, at least not for the reason cited. I've seen no evidence they've gotten on him about being patient. His K-rate has been steady and his BB rate remains excellent.* I think they did get on him about Ks but they probably should have to some extent. What has concerned me about him up to now was his GB/FB rate which is much, much better this year. He's not a GB machine this year.

Anyway, I can't say the Braves haven't messed him up but, if they did, it doesn't seem related to patience.

*His walk rate has been lower 2011-12 than in 2010 but his rookie year walk rate was already about as good as it gets and nearly certain to come down.
   111. Rickey! In a van on 95 south... Posted: May 29, 2012 at 07:56 AM (#4141998)
See now, that's just some f*cked up sh*t. Why? Why don't you watch AL baseball.


Because I don't like AL baseball?
   112. Rickey! In a van on 95 south... Posted: May 29, 2012 at 07:58 AM (#4141999)
Heyward will be a star someday, but he'll need to get away from the Braves hitting coaches first.


This is vapid and devoid of merit to the point of being a vacuum.
   113. Rickey! In a van on 95 south... Posted: May 29, 2012 at 08:02 AM (#4142000)
Anyway, I can't say the Braves haven't messed him up but, if they did, it doesn't seem related to patience.


Let me explain what has "messed him up."

1. Injuries.
2. Big league pitching.

Heyward's biggest problem has been his inability to stay healthy. His second biggest problem has been the gaping hole in his swing that MLB pitchers found sometime around the 2010 NLDS, which he never closed in 2011, and which he spent the entire off-season attempting to rebuild his mechanics around in order to close in 2012. The idea that it's a problem of the organization telling him he was "too patient" is so wrongheaded as to be pathetic. Heyward didn't lose his game because the Braves told him to hit worse. He lost his game because he found a level of competition that is at least as good, if not better than him, for the first time in his life, and he hasn't adjusted to how they're getting him out yet.
   114. Esoteric Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:27 AM (#4142028)
Actually, what messed Jason Heyward up was discovering that Sam Hutcheson was a fan of his. The guilt he's had to live with ever since that day has just been crushing his spirit.
I don't mind anyone being passionate and homer for their team, but this stance is just belligerent and ridiculous.
...and now you understand Sam, BBTF's new Kevin.

Don't worry, just realize that it's all an act: he's not even a Braves fan actually, he's a fan of the Minnesota Twins playing a "funny role" on this site.
   115. Rickey! In a van on 95 south... Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:42 AM (#4142030)
Actually, what messed Jason Heyward up was discovering that Sam Hutcheson was a fan of his.


I'm starting to think you have a little shrine set up to me in your bedroom closet. It's cute, if a bit disturbing.

EDIT: I also love that I'm the "new Kevin," as if I don't actually predate Kevin at Primer.
   116. Joey B. is being stalked by a (Gonfa) loon Posted: May 29, 2012 at 10:12 AM (#4142039)
I didn't know that Joey B. was writing headlines for WaPo now.

Bwa-ha-ha-ha. Yep, we're a good now team now chumps, and you'd better get used to it, because we're going to be for the next few years.

Oh, and I'm afraid I've got even more bad news for the haters: Michael Morse is coming back in about a week and a half.
   117. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: May 29, 2012 at 10:21 AM (#4142043)
i htought morse was back this friday?
   118. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: May 29, 2012 at 10:24 AM (#4142045)
Yep, we're a good now team now chumps, and you'd better get used to it, because we're going to be for the next few years.

Oh, and I'm afraid I've got even more bad news for the haters: Michael Morse is coming back in about a week and a half.


In spite of being a Phillies fan, the overall baseball fan in me wants to root for the Nationals to be good. However, the one man gang of Joey B. might move me into his "haters" group, which I don't think existed before Joey B started his gloatfest. Any NL East follower saw the Nats as a real threat. We'll see how the young arms hold up down the stretch and Strasburg disappears sometime in August. It's going to be quite an interesting year, especially if the Mets continue to surprise.

   119. Guapo Posted: May 29, 2012 at 10:31 AM (#4142048)
Yeah, as a Nats fan this thread displeases me. It's only been two months, guys.
   120. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: May 29, 2012 at 10:39 AM (#4142054)
I hate everything.


Ideas, newsletter, subscribe, etc.
   121. Joey B. is being stalked by a (Gonfa) loon Posted: May 29, 2012 at 10:43 AM (#4142056)
That's some Grade A concern trolling there, Edmundo. I don't think that any team has had to put up with more crap in this place over the last several years than the Nats have. Hell, it started pretty much from the day the team moved to Washington.

And that's fine, I certainly don't expect the team to be liked by everyone; no team is.

But did they honestly believe that all the grief wouldn't be rebounding right back in the other direction when the tide finally turned? Well, get real; that's not how these things work.
   122. Rickey! In a van on 95 south... Posted: May 29, 2012 at 10:44 AM (#4142058)
In spite of being a Phillies fan, the overall baseball fan in me wants to root for the Nationals to be good.


I can't imagine a scenario where a right thinking person roots for the Nationals. It's not like rooting for the Mets - sort of the baseball equivalent of being hooked on kiddie porn - but it's right up there with being that guy that wants his lover to poop in his mouth.
   123. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: May 29, 2012 at 10:48 AM (#4142060)
it's right up there with being that guy that wants his lover to poop in his mouth.


Let him who is without ...

Oh, never mind.
   124. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: May 29, 2012 at 10:54 AM (#4142064)
That's some Grade A concern trolling there, Edmundo. I don't think that any team has had to put up with more crap in this place over the last several years than the Nats have.

How am I trolling? I'm simply calling you an annoying poster with regards to the Nats start this year.
   125. Rickey! In a van on 95 south... Posted: May 29, 2012 at 10:56 AM (#4142067)
Hell, it started pretty much from the day the team moved to Washington.


That'll happen when you steal another city's team.
   126. Rickey! In a van on 95 south... Posted: May 29, 2012 at 10:57 AM (#4142068)
How am I trolling? I'm simply calling you an annoying poster with regards to the Nats start this year.


Those last eight words were superfluous.
   127. Joey B. is being stalked by a (Gonfa) loon Posted: May 29, 2012 at 10:58 AM (#4142069)
#125 obviously said with nary an ounce of history, or irony.
   128. Rickey! In a van on 95 south... Posted: May 29, 2012 at 11:04 AM (#4142073)
#125 obviously said with nary an ounce of history, or irony.


Well stolen long before I was born, and stolen from another thief at that. Many things happened in the 1960s that I had no control or input into.
   129. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: May 29, 2012 at 11:05 AM (#4142074)

I enjoyed this sequence of posts:

93. Sam Hutcheson is the Rickey Henderson of... Posted: May 28, 2012 at 10:02 PM (#4141897)

How on earth does Adam Jones get in that conversation?


94. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: May 28, 2012 at 10:05 PM (#4141899)

sam

you don't think adam jones is fun to watch?


97. Sam Hutcheson is the Rickey Henderson of... Posted: May 28, 2012 at 10:17 PM (#4141904)

I've never really seen much of Jones play. I don't watch AL baseball.
   130. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: May 29, 2012 at 11:09 AM (#4142077)
That'll happen when you steal another city's team.


Joey is Bud Selig? Things are actually starting to make a certain amount of sense now ...
   131. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: May 29, 2012 at 11:13 AM (#4142078)
gef

bud has an admin handle his email

the notion that he enters into an interactive chat forum is absurd

you might as well ask a lemur to to make an image of itself with a balloon
   132. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: May 29, 2012 at 11:13 AM (#4142079)
Well stolen long before I was born, and stolen from another thief at that. Many things happened in the 1960s that I had no control or input into.

Well, then what's your excuse for not halting the thievery in 2005? Presumably you were around then. Why weren't you crying "PENSER AUX ENFANTS!!!"
   133. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 29, 2012 at 11:13 AM (#4142080)
the overall baseball fan in me wants to root for the Nationals to be good. However, the one man gang of Joey B. might move me into his "haters" group, which I don't think existed before Joey B started his gloatfest. Any NL East follower saw the Nats as a real threat. We'll see how the young arms hold up down the stretch and Strasburg disappears sometime in August. It's going to be quite an interesting year, especially if the Mets continue to surprise.


Yeah, this is how I feel too. Joey is going after a lot a pretty serious strawman here, I think everyone agreed the Nats had a chance to be good. I don't know what they have as far as pitching depth so how they hold up as the season goes on feels like a very fair question.

I think the combination of them being legitimately good and Philadelphia and Atlanta looking worse than expected helps their chances a lot. I'm not a big believer in the Mets or the Marlins.
   134. Rickey! In a van on 95 south... Posted: May 29, 2012 at 11:18 AM (#4142083)
@129 - My real question re: Jones and the "new hustling young players" conversation was about including a 27 year old player in the discussion of Trout, Harper, Stanton, Heyward, etc. Seems to be a little old for that group.
   135. Spahn Insane Posted: May 29, 2012 at 11:27 AM (#4142085)
In spite of being a Phillies fan, the overall baseball fan in me wants to root for the Nationals to be good. However, the one man gang of Joey B. might move me into his "haters" group, which I don't think existed before Joey B started his gloatfest.

Seriously--as if Joey weren't annoying enough before he had a good team to root for. I echo the mystification about the "Nats haters" stuff; if anything, before this year there were a lot of "Nats ignorers," but that doesn't strike me as the same thing. Anyway, they're an interesting team with a lot of fun players and my own team blows arse, so I'd be happy to root for the Nats on a bandwagon basis, but any sort of Joey B association's definitely not an incentive.

   136. Joey B. is being stalked by a (Gonfa) loon Posted: May 29, 2012 at 11:30 AM (#4142086)
Joey is going after a lot of pretty serious strawmen here

Strawmen, my behind. Having to hear about how we stole our team (from a guy who roots for a "stolen team" no less) is exactly what I'm talking about and just proves my point.

That's fine; he can keep that up, and we'll just keep kicking the Braves' teeth out of their heads like we just did over the weekend.
   137. Rickey! In a van on 95 south... Posted: May 29, 2012 at 11:31 AM (#4142087)
Anyway, they're an interesting team with a lot of fun players and my own team blows arse, so I'd be happy to root for the Nats on a bandwagon basis, but any sort of Joey B association's definitely not an incentive.


Poop eater.
   138. Spahn Insane Posted: May 29, 2012 at 11:33 AM (#4142088)
But did they honestly believe that all the grief wouldn't be rebounding right back in the other direction when the tide finally turned? Well, get real; that's not how these things work.

At least, not when you're 13. In any event, I love the post-hoc self-justification.
   139. Ben Broussard Ramjet Posted: May 29, 2012 at 11:37 AM (#4142090)
you might as well ask a lemur to to make an image of itself with a balloon


There may be no higher calling than to dedicate my life to seeing this happen.
   140. Tippecanoe Posted: May 29, 2012 at 11:50 AM (#4142103)
Ignoring Doc Gooden, the most impressive 19-year-olds in baseball history are probably Mickey Mantle, Mel Ott, Ty Cobb and Ken Griffey Jr. Harper's outperforming those guys so far.


Also Conigliaro. So far Harper looks like he has a chance to be the best 19-year-old ever, but he's got a long ways to go.
   141. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: May 29, 2012 at 11:50 AM (#4142105)
That's fine; he can keep that up, and we'll just keep kicking the Braves' teeth out of their heads like we just did over the weekend.


What position do you play for the Nats?
   142. Lassus Posted: May 29, 2012 at 12:07 PM (#4142114)
Of all the many reasons to hate sports fans (collectively and indivisulally) - of which I have MANY myself - the use of a collective pronoun in referring to one's favorite team has never bothered me at all for some reason.
   143. Rickey! In a van on 95 south... Posted: May 29, 2012 at 12:10 PM (#4142115)
Of all the many reasons to hate sports fans (collectively and indivisulally)


How does one hate indivisulally? I'd hate to think there was a subcategory of hate that I haven't fully explored yet.
   144. Lassus Posted: May 29, 2012 at 12:13 PM (#4142117)
How does one hate indivisulally?

I see into their sad, tortured, damaged souls.
   145. Rickey! In a van on 95 south... Posted: May 29, 2012 at 12:15 PM (#4142119)
I see into their sad, tortured, damaged souls.


And kill them?
   146. Esoteric Posted: May 29, 2012 at 12:17 PM (#4142121)
Seriously--as if Joey weren't annoying enough before he had a good team to root for. I echo the mystification about the "Nats haters" stuff; if anything, before this year there were a lot of "Nats ignorers," but that doesn't strike me as the same thing. Anyway, they're an interesting team with a lot of fun players and my own team blows arse, so I'd be happy to root for the Nats on a bandwagon basis, but any sort of Joey B association's definitely not an incentive.
I find this to be a fairly selective use of outrage given Sam Hutcheson's constant, vulgar, auto-aggressive trolling behavior over the past several years re: all things Atlanta Braves. Seems to me like people just choose to hate on Joey B. (and blame the Nats in turn) because...big surprise, he's a conservative and Hutcheson is bleeding-heart liberal. So Sam's horrible sins are forgiven or written off with a "oh he's so crazy!" wave of the hands, whereas anything even mildly bothersome Joey B. writes (and nothing he's ever done is even remotely comparable to the atrocities Hutcheson spews out on a daily basis) is labeled the Worst Thing On BBTF and now also attributed like some sort of inherent quality to the Nationals as well.

It's all political tribalism when you drill down, revealingly enough.
   147. Spahn Insane Posted: May 29, 2012 at 12:23 PM (#4142127)
I find this to be a fairly selective use of outrage given Sam Hutcheson's constant, vulgar, auto-aggressive trolling behavior over the past several years re: all things Atlanta Braves. Seems to me like people just choose to hate on Joey B. (and blame the Nats in turn) because...big surprise, he's a conservative and Hutcheson is bleeding-heart liberal. So Sam's horrible sins are forgiven, whereas anything mildly bothersome Joey B. writes (and nothing he's ever done is even remotely comparable to the atrocities Hutcheson spews out on a daily basis) is labeled the Worst Thing On BBTF and now also attributed like some sort of inherent quality to the Nationals as well.

Well, I'm not a Hutcheson apologist either. I do find him occasionally amusing/insightful (at least, on certain topics), even amid the vitriol and bile (which, yes, is frequent and over the top).**

Joey strikes me as a whiny, generally humorless buffoon, on pretty much all subjects, irrespective of his political views or baseball rooting interests.

**And also, I'm convinced, often tongue-in-cheek. Kind of a BBTF lefty version of Ann Coulter.

Also: I hate the damn Braves anyway, so how I feel about Hutcheson doesn't affect my feelings about them one iota.
   148. Lassus Posted: May 29, 2012 at 12:25 PM (#4142130)
It's all political tribalism when you drill down, revealingly enough.

Well, except no one gave the reason they can't root for the Nats was because YOU were a damned conservative. And plenty of people hate Sam and the Braves because of Sam.

If one accepts your conclustion, the tribalism that it's attributal to gets turned around onto the conclusion itself very easily. I disagree with your conclusion regardless.

EDIT: Also, comparing Sam and Joey in tone and content is a pretty terrible read on both of them.
   149. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: May 29, 2012 at 12:33 PM (#4142136)

134 - he's actually only 26 right now, but fair enough.
   150. Rickey! In a van on 95 south... Posted: May 29, 2012 at 12:39 PM (#4142139)
Thoughts:

1. People "hate on Joey B." because he's an asshat in virtually every engagement he enters.
2. What are my "horrible sins" exactly? Should I ever want to confess a bulleted list would be so much easier.
3. The idea that I'm a "bleeding-heart liberal" is ####### fantastic, but not how you think it is.
4. I have "apologists?" God, I'm ####### awesome.
5. People actually hate the Braves as some sort of transference of heat from their white hot hatred of me? God, I am *so ####### awesome!*
   151. Rickey! In a van on 95 south... Posted: May 29, 2012 at 12:40 PM (#4142140)
134 - he's actually only 26 right now, but fair enough.


Noted and nodded.
   152. Joey B. is being stalked by a (Gonfa) loon Posted: May 29, 2012 at 12:40 PM (#4142141)
Retro, the only person here doing any whining is you.
   153. Lassus Posted: May 29, 2012 at 12:42 PM (#4142142)
5. People actually hate the Braves as some sort of transference of heat from their white hot hatred of me? God, I am *so ####### awesome!*

A pimple on the butt of Tom Glavine is still worth hating for its connection to Tom Glavine.
   154. Spahn Insane Posted: May 29, 2012 at 12:43 PM (#4142144)
Retro, the only person here doing any whining is you.

lolwut? Mockery /= whining. Also, this:

Having to hear about how we stole our team (from a guy who roots for a "stolen team" no less) is exactly what I'm talking about and just proves my point.


and

I don't think that any team has had to put up with more crap in this place over the last several years than the Nats have. Hell, it started pretty much from the day the team moved to Washington.


I report, you decide.





   155. Rickey! In a van on 95 south... Posted: May 29, 2012 at 12:56 PM (#4142147)
EDIT: Also, comparing Sam and Joey in tone and content is a pretty terrible read on both of them.


An audience! <removes hat; bows deeply>
   156. Srul Itza Posted: May 29, 2012 at 01:45 PM (#4142181)
1. People "hate on Joey B." because he's an asshat in virtually every engagement he enters.


What I can never understand is the people who don't have him on ignore*. He adds nothing to any conversation but bile and stupidity. There was a time when people assumed he was kevin's sock puppet, but kevin was never so aggressively stupid.

*and for those of us who do, please refrain from quoting him in your responses.

   157. Srul Itza Posted: May 29, 2012 at 01:50 PM (#4142183)
And as for Bryce Harper -- he sure is fun to watch. I remember a lot of negativity toward him when he was drafted, people complaining about the funky eye-black and his attitude. Hard to believe that was only a year ago.
   158. Rickey! In a van on 95 south... Posted: May 29, 2012 at 01:56 PM (#4142186)
And as for Bryce Harper -- he sure is fun to watch. I remember a lot of negativity toward him when he was drafted, people complaining about the funky eye-black and his attitude. Hard to believe that was only a year ago.


The furious rebranding from King Douchhat to The Next Mickey Mantle sure has been, um, interesting to watch. Apparently there are some folks in MLB marketing who know what they're doing.
   159. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: May 29, 2012 at 02:03 PM (#4142189)
People "hate on Joey B." because he's an asshat in virtually every engagement he enters.


every now and then he has a worthwhile observation about the Nationals

his domestic policy stuff is no worse than GF's and at least he doesn't have GF's vague intellectual pretensions...
   160. The Good Face Posted: May 29, 2012 at 02:09 PM (#4142193)
his domestic policy stuff is no worse than GF's and at least he doesn't have GF's annoying habit of making arguments I lack the capacity to refute...


Fixed that for you!
   161. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 29, 2012 at 02:16 PM (#4142198)
Joey B's consistent and obnoxiously expressed hatred for Barry Bonds, Manny Ramirez, Pedro Martinez, Roger Clemens, Albert Pujols, Alex Rodriguez, and (recently) Matt Kemp is the main reason I avoid his comments. He clearly doesn't actually enjoy baseball, and spends most of his baseball-commenting time running down great players. And Billy Beane.
   162. alilisd Posted: May 29, 2012 at 02:24 PM (#4142204)
I'd add Justin Upton's name to the list of young position players I'd take over Heyward.
   163. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: May 29, 2012 at 02:45 PM (#4142220)
I find this to be a fairly selective use of outrage given Sam Hutcheson's constant, vulgar, auto-aggressive trolling behavior over the past several years re: all things Atlanta Braves. Seems to me like people just choose to hate on Joey B. (and blame the Nats in turn) because...big surprise, he's a conservative and Hutcheson is bleeding-heart liberal. So Sam's horrible sins are forgiven or written off with a "oh he's so crazy!" wave of the hands, whereas anything even mildly bothersome Joey B. writes (and nothing he's ever done is even remotely comparable to the atrocities Hutcheson spews out on a daily basis) is labeled the Worst Thing On BBTF and now also attributed like some sort of inherent quality to the Nationals as well.


Oh, ########. I don't ever touch the political threads; I hate Joey B (and have him on ignore) because he's the most astoundingly stupid dickwad on the face of the earth, incapable of saying anything interesting or insightful, and generally only interested in starting ludicrous fights about steroids and other issues I don't care about.

Sam annoys the #### out of me most of the time but at least there does appear to be a thinking organ rattling around inside his skull.
   164. Rickey! In a van on 95 south... Posted: May 29, 2012 at 03:21 PM (#4142251)
Sam annoys the #### out of me most of the time but at least there does appear to be a thinking organ rattling around inside his skull.


Who else are you going to turn to for gems like "poop eater?"
   165. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 29, 2012 at 03:34 PM (#4142257)
And as for Bryce Harper -- he sure is fun to watch. I remember a lot of negativity toward him when he was drafted, people complaining about the funky eye-black and his attitude. Hard to believe that was only a year ago.


Well yeah, I think the biggest reason for that is that it was two years ago.

And seriously, I was one of those who was basically saying "hey kid, get over yourself." I love his game though, he hustles, he seems to have respect for those around him and he's saying all the right things. Whether he's changed, I've changed, or the stories have changed I don't know, probably all three, but he's quickly become a player I love to watch play.
   166. Guapo Posted: May 29, 2012 at 03:50 PM (#4142271)
I love both Sam H. and Joey B. I think both of them just need a hug. There is good in them- I sense it. Sam H. is kind of like Darth Vader, while Joey B. is more like Boo Radley.
   167. Esoteric Posted: May 29, 2012 at 04:10 PM (#4142284)
And seriously, I was one of those who was basically saying "hey kid, get over yourself." I love his game though, he hustles, he seems to have respect for those around him and he's saying all the right things. Whether he's changed, I've changed, or the stories have changed I don't know, probably all three, but he's quickly become a player I love to watch play.
As has been sometimes known to happen, sixteen-year-old boys grow up.
   168. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: May 29, 2012 at 04:10 PM (#4142285)
Seems to me like people just choose to hate on Joey B. (and blame the Nats in turn) because...big surprise, he's a conservative and Hutcheson is bleeding-heart liberal. So Sam's horrible sins are forgiven or written off with a "oh he's so crazy!" wave of the hands, whereas anything even mildly bothersome Joey B. writes (and nothing he's ever done is even remotely comparable to the atrocities Hutcheson spews out on a daily basis) is labeled the Worst Thing On BBTF and now also attributed like some sort of inherent quality to the Nationals as well.


FWIW, this is news to me. Also, I feel like Sam goes a few rounds with at least a couple of posters in any thread he posts in, so I wouldn't say people are "forgiving his sins."
   169. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: May 29, 2012 at 04:10 PM (#4142286)
What I can never understand is the people who don't have him on ignore*. He adds nothing to any conversation but bile and stupidity. There was a time when people assumed he was kevin's sock puppet, but kevin was never so aggressively stupid.

*and for those of us who do, please refrain from quoting him in your responses.


Thank you. It amazes me that there are people who don't have him on ignore. He's the most hateful person I've ever encountered on the web -- quite an accomplishment.
   170. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: May 29, 2012 at 04:20 PM (#4142293)
Joey B's consistent and obnoxiously expressed hatred for Barry Bonds, Manny Ramirez, Pedro Martinez, Roger Clemens, Albert Pujols, Alex Rodriguez, and (recently) Matt Kemp is the main reason I avoid his comments. He clearly doesn't actually enjoy baseball, and spends most of his baseball-commenting time running down great players. And Billy Beane.

And Peter Angelos. (Mostly earned, of course. But it's one thing to criticize his management of the Orioles. Quite another to reference the fact that he's Greek constantly and call him a shyster.)
   171. Rickey! In a van on 95 south... Posted: May 29, 2012 at 04:22 PM (#4142294)
Thank you. It amazes me that there are people who don't have him on ignore.


I have taken your advice to heart, gentlemen.
   172. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: May 29, 2012 at 04:27 PM (#4142302)
Who else are you going to turn to for gems like "poop eater?"

I have a 9 year old and a 5 year old, so I'm pretty set for poop-related humor.
   173. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: May 29, 2012 at 04:35 PM (#4142308)
Seems to me like people just choose to hate on Joey B. (and blame the Nats in turn) because...big surprise, he's a conservative and Hutcheson is bleeding-heart liberal. So Sam's horrible sins are forgiven or written off with a "oh he's so crazy!" wave of the hands, whereas anything even mildly bothersome Joey B. writes (and nothing he's ever done is even remotely comparable to the atrocities Hutcheson spews out on a daily basis) is labeled the Worst Thing On BBTF and now also attributed like some sort of inherent quality to the Nationals as well.
I'm on the same side of the aisle as Sam on most issues, and even I object to style of argument sometimes, but at least he'll stick around and defend a point. Joey's a hit-and-run specialist, and aside from either crying about something or putting it down, has never contributed anything to anything.

And having read Sam's posts on the Braves, Hawks, and Falcons, I can honestly say that no series of Internet postings brought me more joy than him agonizing over having the Nationals/Celtics/Giants destroy his hometown teams this year. His hysterical rantings over how the fix is always in against Atlanta... so delicious! Just thinking about them makes me so happy!
   174. Rickey! In a van on 95 south... Posted: May 29, 2012 at 04:53 PM (#4142340)
And having read Sam's posts on the Braves, Hawks, and Falcons, I can honestly say that no series of Internet postings brought me more joy than him agonizing over having the Nationals/Celtics/Giants destroy his hometown teams this year. His hysterical rantings over how the fix is always in against Atlanta... so delicious! Just thinking about them makes me so happy!


I know where you live.
   175. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: May 29, 2012 at 04:54 PM (#4142341)
Will you come to my house and complain in person? Because that would be AWESOME.
   176. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 29, 2012 at 05:04 PM (#4142347)
Will you come to my house and complain in person? Because that would be AWESOME.


I watched Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back on Sunday night. The scene at the end where they go to the homes of people who badmouthed them on the internet and beat the crap out of them gets me everytime. I love the concept of doing that and I love the idea of a Law and Order type show using that as the crime they have to solve.
   177. Rickey! In a van on 95 south... Posted: May 29, 2012 at 05:07 PM (#4142352)
Credit. Begrudgingly given where due. Touche, good sir.
   178. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: May 29, 2012 at 06:08 PM (#4142389)
you might as well ask a lemur to to make an image of itself with a balloon


Way to to remind me, Harveys, of all the hours I wasted expectantly watching Lemur Island at the Phoenix Zoo while I was in grad school.
   179. bunyon Posted: May 29, 2012 at 06:10 PM (#4142392)
I haven't read the whole thread (and probably won't have time) but, much better, I say, to collapse in May and be done with it than what we had last year.

So, kudos.
   180. Petunia inquires about ponies Posted: May 29, 2012 at 06:11 PM (#4142394)
I don't think that any team has had to put up with more crap in this place over the last several years than the Nats have.

Looks even stupider posted a second time.
   181. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: May 29, 2012 at 06:28 PM (#4142411)
Quite another to reference the fact that he's Greek constantly


If he were Greek only sporadically, I'm not sure it would be any better, to be honest.
   182. Rickey! In a van on 95 south... Posted: May 29, 2012 at 06:31 PM (#4142413)
Looks even stupider posted a second time.


Seriously. The Mets get crapped on. No one even cares about the Nats.
   183. zenbitz Posted: May 29, 2012 at 06:41 PM (#4142418)
Ah, the sweet, sweet tears of a Braves fan.
   184. Rickey! In a van on 95 south... Posted: May 29, 2012 at 06:59 PM (#4142424)
I'm honestly confused as to why so many people seem to harbor ill will toward the Braves. They've never been anything but a class 1 grade A franchise, have they?
   185. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: May 29, 2012 at 07:51 PM (#4142475)

Sam annoys the #### out of me most of the time but at least there does appear to be a thinking organ rattling around inside his skull.


It might be in there but it's not getting much use.


Will you come to my house and complain in person? Because that would be AWESOME.


Seriously. I'd break my own 'no Orange County under any circumstances' rule to watch that.
   186. zenbitz Posted: May 29, 2012 at 08:12 PM (#4142494)
1993! Never Forget! Of course, I will always harbor a grudge against the Rockies for being swept. Or the stupid Padres for trading McGriff!

Also fans of a team that win their division 20 years in a row and ##### about it are never welcome.

Also - the tomahawk chop.
   187. Ron J Posted: May 29, 2012 at 08:45 PM (#4142563)
#169 Are you an RSB alum? I ask because Joey B strikes me as an RLM wanna be.
   188. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:03 PM (#4142588)
Are you saying that Joey is not a fan of sport?
   189. zenbitz Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:07 PM (#4142592)
Where is Kneepants to pile on Sam when you need him
   190. Petunia inquires about ponies Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:24 PM (#4142614)
Ah, the sweet, sweet tears of a Braves fan.

If this is in response to [182], it's ad hominem at its worst. [182] (and [184] actually) are, word for word, completely true.

Well, okay, 'no one cares about the Nats' is clearly not literally true, as we're working up to a 3-page thread right now about how much certain people do care about them. But the bizarre persecution complex still perplexes me. When it comes to teams taking crap at BBTF, Yanks/Red Sox, Mets, A's, and Dusty Baker are head and shoulders above the crowd. Nats are on par with M's, O's, Cards, Tommy Lasorda; second-tier at BEST.
   191. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 29, 2012 at 09:26 PM (#4142617)
What are my "horrible sins" exactly?

Directing name-calling, insults and threats toward posters who dare have an opinion that differs from yours. An abundance of uncivil behavior at a website that is supposedly for the benefit of "thinking fans". It's not a schtick, although there are any number of other names for it, none of them flattering.
   192. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: May 29, 2012 at 10:08 PM (#4142675)
I'm honestly confused as to why so many people seem to harbor ill will toward the Braves.

It's not the Braves, it's that plastic city they play in and their zombie chop. Move the team to Athens and torch those tomahawks, and the Braves will be no more despised than the Rockies or the Royals.

They've never been anything but a class 1 grade A franchise, have they?

No, Sam, you're confusing them with the Yankees.
   193. Guapo Posted: May 29, 2012 at 10:10 PM (#4142678)
Nats now 0-2 since this horrible jinx thread was posted.
   194. Rickey! In a van on 95 south... Posted: May 29, 2012 at 11:24 PM (#4142733)
Directing name-calling, insults and threats toward posters who dare have an opinion that differs from yours.


Come on, man. Be fair. I also direct name-calling, insults and threats toward posters who share my opinions too.
   195. Rickey! In a van on 95 south... Posted: May 29, 2012 at 11:25 PM (#4142735)
Where is Kneepants to pile on Sam when you need him.


You must be *this high* to ride. Sorry.
   196. Rickey! In a van on 95 south... Posted: May 29, 2012 at 11:31 PM (#4142739)
Nats now 0-2 since this horrible jinx thread was posted.


And the Braves managed to win a game tonight. I blame Jose Constanza.
   197. Srul Itza Posted: May 29, 2012 at 11:44 PM (#4142741)
#169 Are you an RSB alum? I ask because Joey B strikes me as an RLM wanna be


RLM was insane, but his shtick could be amusing, especially when someone attempted to challenge his logic. And he was not a one shot and run-away kind of guy.

As a troll, Joey could not hold his jock.
   198. Fancy Pants Handle doesn't need no water Posted: May 29, 2012 at 11:57 PM (#4142748)
Bragging about ones classiness is the surest sign of classlessness.
   199. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 30, 2012 at 05:21 AM (#4142781)
2. What are my "horrible sins" exactly? Should I ever want to confess a bulleted list would be so much easier.
Wouldn't it be easier and shorter to list your non-sins?
A. Not a Yankees fan.
B. See A.
3. The idea that I'm a "bleeding-heart liberal" is ####### fantastic, but not how you think it is.
True. Stalinists not known for being "bleeding-heart." Unless they offended Stalin.
   200. Greg K Posted: May 30, 2012 at 06:27 AM (#4142789)
I met a guy at a conference last weekend that studies late 19th century Russian provincial agricultural policy. He said Russian archives are among the funnest places you can visit. No one seems to know what's in half the boxes, he said he was shown one that had a bunch of Soviet committee minutes...and the duelling pistol they think killed Pushkin. Also key for research in a Russian archive is talking to the janitors. They seem to "find" stuff all the time and keep it for themselves rather than toss it into the chaos of the archive.

He also said you have ask for the specific document you want and the specific use you are going to put it to, otherwise the archivist will eye you suspicously and claim to not know how to help you.

With what I have previously heard about how Chinese archives work, I've never been happier that I study English history.

In my mind Sam's greatest sin is that he's actually proud of the Braves and derides other teams. My debilitating worship of self-deprecation spreads even into my baseball fandom. A proper fan thinks his team sucks and openly envies its rivals. Also, he once derided me as a boy stuck in arrested development for not liking to wear suits - I have always considered telling hard truths to be a grievous sin.
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