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Friday, August 17, 2012

WaPo (Steinberg): Rob Dibble slams Stephen Strasburg and Mike Rizzo

Dibble goes diabolical!

On the Lerners

“Then again, they’ve got an owner that is more like Arthur than George Steinbrenner.”

On Strasburg’s father talking to Mike Rizzo

“Do you need your dad to talk to the general manager? You know, that’s sad to me. Is Scott Boras gonna come out? If he talks about Stephen Strasburg, so help me God, I’m gonna go bananas tomorrow night, because this kid is a man. He’s 23 years old, he’s married, he’s making $4 million a year. Speak up for yourself….Nobody’s dad gets involved in their Major League kid’s career. It just doesn’t happen. But it shows you, Tony Gwynn pitched him once a week, every Friday at San Diego State. He goes to Washington, the PR people walk him to the bullpen, almost hold his hand to walk him out there. I mean, it’s just been one thing after another.”

On Strasburg not speaking up

“The one thing that is the resonating idea here is you only get one shot at that ring. And you either want to take it, or you just say, you know what, I’ll do what somebody tells me to do.”

On the J-Zimm comparisons

“What the Nationals are doing, they’re doing it on their own, and they don’t have any kind of data to back it up. And to keep on bringing up Jordan Zimmermann, I’ll bring up [this]: Jordan Zimmermann was rushed to the Major Leagues. Strasburg, rushed to the Major Leagues. Even Drew Storen, rushed to the Major Leagues. All three of them got hurt. So don’t tell me you were protecting them before they got hurt and needed Tommy John surgery. Now after the fact, oh, now we’re gonna hold them back and we’re gonna bring them along cautiously. It doesn’t hold water, the whole argument.”

JE (Jason Epstein) Posted: August 17, 2012 at 10:36 AM | 118 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: media, medical, nationals

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   101. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: August 18, 2012 at 11:36 AM (#4211299)
In his JFK interview, Dibble says that guys like Strasburg, Zimmermann, and Storen were rushed to the majors to early, unlike a guy like Jim Palmer who built up arm strength over time.

Strasburg's age at MLB debut: 21
Zimmermmann's age at MLB debut: 23
Storen's age at MLB debut: 22
Palmer's age at MLB debut: 19


Palmer's age at time of first serious arm injury, which sidelined him for nearly two years: 21
   102. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: August 18, 2012 at 02:36 PM (#4211430)
Palmer's career did almost end before it really got started, but he didn't miss anywhere near two years. He missed a couple of months of 1967, but came back to throw 34 minor league innings and make two September starts for the big club. He didn't pitch in the majors in 1968, but did throw 37 minor league innings (presumably late-season rehab). He was back in the O's rotation at the beginning of 1969, but pitched out of the pen some in June and sat out July. Early innings limit? ;-)

At any rate, he's a terrible example of how to keep a young pitcher healthy by bringing him along slowly. On both counts.
   103. Esoteric Posted: August 18, 2012 at 07:11 PM (#4211593)
HOLY CRAP, the radio interview with Dibble link in #88 is AMAAAAAAAAAZING.

It really is truly a "meltdown." Not an oversell of the term. The hosts (LaVar and Dukes) start out perfectly respectful and just want to talk about the issues, and Dibble just starts out INSAAAANE right out of the gate. Literally from one minute into the clip, Dibble's already flipping his sh*t. It's actually fun after Dibble hangs up on them, because the hosts just bash on him relentlessly (and fairly) for the next 8 minutes. Really gotta listen!

Here's the link again.
   104. OsunaSakata Posted: August 18, 2012 at 07:32 PM (#4211605)
He was back in the O's rotation at the beginning of 1969, but pitched out of the pen some in June and sat out July. Early innings limit? ;-)


Weaver's philosophy was that the best place for a young pitcher is long relief. In that day that meant bailing out a veteran starter who got rocked early or a 3-4 inning save. The currently philosophy doesn't have room for this position. It used to be pitchers were taken out after four runs, it takes maybe eight runs before a starter is taken out before the fifth inning. Instead of an apprentice starter, he's replaced with a failed starter who probably goes only two innings. And the only chance for a 3-inning save is in a blowout. So young starters are kept in the minors in regular work and brought to the majors only when there are actual starting opportunities. We can debate endlessly whether the current pitching staff roles are better than that in the 1960s and 1970s.
   105. Shock Posted: August 18, 2012 at 07:38 PM (#4211609)
HOLY CRAP, the radio interview with Dibble link in #88 is AMAAAAAAAAAZING.

It really is truly a "meltdown." Not an oversell of the term. The hosts (LaVar and Dukes) start out perfectly respectful and just want to talk about the issues, and Dibble just starts out INSAAAANE right out of the gate. Literally from one minute into the clip, Dibble's already flipping his sh*t. It's actually fun after Dibble hangs up on them, because the hosts just bash on him relentlessly (and fairly) for the next 8 minutes. Really gotta listen!

Here's the link again.


Dreadful.

That people pay this man to talk publicly is disturbing to me.

"Why do I need to defend my opinion which I'm paid to give, about everything from football to the Olympics?" The height of arrogance. What a ####.
   106. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 18, 2012 at 07:49 PM (#4211614)
Say what you want about Dibble, but he could flat out pitch.
   107. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 18, 2012 at 07:54 PM (#4211617)
HOLY CRAP, the radio interview with Dibble link in #88 is AMAAAAAAAAAZING.

It really is truly a "meltdown." Not an oversell of the term. The hosts (LaVar and Dukes) start out perfectly respectful and just want to talk about the issues, and Dibble just starts out INSAAAANE right out of the gate. Literally from one minute into the clip, Dibble's already flipping his sh*t. It's actually fun after Dibble hangs up on them, because the hosts just bash on him relentlessly (and fairly) for the next 8 minutes. Really gotta listen!


Dibble was an ass, but amazingly his asshattery was outdone by the two hosts after he hung up on them.
   108. Shock Posted: August 18, 2012 at 08:13 PM (#4211625)
Dibble was an ass, but amazingly his asshattery was outdone by the two hosts after he hung up on them.


I actually agree with that. When the one guy kept saying "get 'im" I stopped listening.

Radio shows really are a scourge.
   109. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 18, 2012 at 08:17 PM (#4211628)
It feels like the hosts had bashed him at some point before the interview, and he knew about it.

And they come off looking bad because they did this whole "Who, us?" act during the interview -- but then proceeded to act like jackasses after he hung up on them, which kind of validates the tone he took with them.
   110. Spivey Posted: August 18, 2012 at 08:41 PM (#4211643)
Listening to that was awesome, but it was obnoxious to the point where I don't think there was a winner in the argument. Everyone covered themselves in shame.
   111. Esoteric Posted: August 18, 2012 at 08:45 PM (#4211645)
I have no idea whether is any prior bad blood between Dibble and the hosts, but I really feel like Ray is projecting his own contrarian sensibilities onto the situation here. I actually relistened to it before posting that link to make sure that there wasn't any baiting by the hosts that I had missed.

There really wasn't. Dibble started the call loaded for bear, and their questions weren't leading or weighted. After he flipped out on them and hung up though? Why SHOULDN'T they unload on him? And who cares if it's a bit juvenile? Um...it's an afternoon sportstalk radio show. You've heard me complaining about these guys before, in other threads -- it's the expectation, pretty much.

I will agree that LaVar Arrington says "get 'em!" near the end is pretty stupid, though. I think their actual criticisms are totally fair and within bounds, though.
   112. SoSH U at work Posted: August 18, 2012 at 08:55 PM (#4211651)
I have no idea whether is any prior bad blood between Dibble and the hosts, but I really feel like Ray is projecting his own contrarian sensibilities onto the situation here. I actually relistened to it before posting that link to make sure that there wasn't any baiting by the hosts that I had missed.

There really wasn't.


I didn't think so either. And, of course, if Dibble genuinely thought he was walking into some trap with guys he had a history with, he had the option of not appearing on the show.
   113. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 18, 2012 at 08:59 PM (#4211654)
I was with them until they started acting like jackasses.
   114. Shock Posted: August 18, 2012 at 09:04 PM (#4211658)
Yes. After Dibble hung up was the perfect time to take the high road, or dismiss him as a loud-mouthed idiot. Instead they stooped to his level and lower, in my opinion. Yelling "get 'im" while taunting him after he'd left. Rob Dibble did himself in; they would have done well to just leave him to hang himself instead of behaving themselves like jackasses.

Nobody came off well in that clip.
   115. Mayor Blomberg Posted: August 18, 2012 at 09:08 PM (#4211662)
Say what you want about Dibble, but he could flat out pitch.


For three years, anyway.
   116. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: August 18, 2012 at 09:14 PM (#4211665)
Weaver's philosophy was that the best place for a young pitcher is long relief. In that day that meant bailing out a veteran starter who got rocked early or a 3-4 inning save...


I am aware, and also a big proponent, of Weaver's approach. And I cannot for the life of me understand why there seems to be no room for long men in modern bullpens and why that is no longer considered a viable way to develop major league starting pitchers. But for the sake of accuracy I want to point out that this was not Palmer's role in 1969. He started 23 games and made 3 relief appearances. All of the relief stints came in the month of June, when he made only two starts. As I said, he then missed all of July. When he returned in August, he was in the starting rotation for the rest of the season (even made a few starts on three days rest).

Palmer's long reliever apprenticeship came in 1965, when Hank Bauer was the manager.
   117. Shock Posted: August 18, 2012 at 09:26 PM (#4211671)
I vaguely recall the Twins doing that with Johan Santana.
   118. OsunaSakata Posted: August 18, 2012 at 09:57 PM (#4211680)
I am aware, and also a big proponent, of Weaver's approach. And I cannot for the life of me understand why there seems to be no room for long men in modern bullpens and why that is no longer considered a viable way to develop major league starting pitchers


There is an obsession with getting the correct handedness match-up. A bullpen is required to have three LHPs, even if all three of them are crap. I seem to remember Bill James pointing out in the Managers book that the 1994 Expos did just fine with five RHP in the bullpen because they were all good.
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