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Friday, March 08, 2013

WBC Day 8 Chatter

Day 7 isn’t all done yet, but, hey, better to be early than late.

Today’s games:
Italy vs. Canada, 2:00 PM
Puerto Rico vs. Spain, 5:30 PM
USA vs. Mexico, 9:00 PM
Cuba vs. loser of Taipei/Japan, 5:00 AM (Saturday) ELIMINATION GAME

Gamingboy Posted: March 08, 2013 at 02:58 AM | 173 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: international, wbc, world baseball classic

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   1. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: March 08, 2013 at 11:47 AM (#4383956)
Honkballers vs. NPB all stars for a trip to the semis!

Taiwan vs. Japan was an absolute classic.
   2. Gamingboy Posted: March 08, 2013 at 12:39 PM (#4384016)
Reminder that Italy-Canada has been moved indoors due to rain storms hitting Arizona. Apparently people who have their Cactus League game rained out can get into a WBC game (which, given the fact that USA-Mexico is close to a sellout, basically means "Italy-Canada") for 5 bucks.
   3. Gamingboy Posted: March 08, 2013 at 03:02 PM (#4384184)
Okay, Canada-Italy.
   4. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: March 08, 2013 at 03:18 PM (#4384201)
Canada-Italy under way. For those wondering, Maestri is a former Cubs prospect who spent last season in Japan.
   5. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: March 08, 2013 at 03:21 PM (#4384206)
Adam Loewen is an outfielder now?!
   6. Gamingboy Posted: March 08, 2013 at 03:21 PM (#4384207)
He did pretty well in Japan, too.
   7. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: March 08, 2013 at 03:29 PM (#4384220)
Italy strikes first again!
   8. Mess with the Meat, you get the Wad! Posted: March 08, 2013 at 03:31 PM (#4384223)
backed there way into that run!
   9. Gamingboy Posted: March 08, 2013 at 03:36 PM (#4384236)
And number 4.... Orr!
   10. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: March 08, 2013 at 03:39 PM (#4384242)
Honestly, Canada's lineup doesn't look that much better than Italy's. Votto and Morneau obviously are the difference makers. But otherwise it's minor league and marginal major league talent. And Italy has got a mix of major league and minor league talent as well.
   11. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: March 08, 2013 at 03:43 PM (#4384247)
"Mike Costanzo grounds out, pitcher Shawn Hill to second baseman Pete Orr to first baseman Justin Morneau."

For not being a double play attempt, this sounds strange.

Edit: ground ball tipped by Hill, fielded by Orr?
   12. Gamingboy Posted: March 08, 2013 at 03:43 PM (#4384249)
I was thinking earlier today what it'd be like if Team USA had a travelling posse like national soccer teams or the Japanese have. Like, we could rewrite the lyrics to patriotic songs to be more baseball related or something and sing them, or something.
   13. Gamingboy Posted: March 08, 2013 at 03:45 PM (#4384251)
Oh, screw it, I'll give it a shot:



Yes we'll rally round the plate, boys, we'll rally once again,
Shouting the battle cry of victory,
We will rally from the cities, we'll gather from the plain,
Shouting the battle cry of victory!

The pastime forever! Hurrah, boys, hurrah!
Down with the pitcher, hit the ball far;
While we rally round the plate, boys, rally once again,
Shouting the battle cry of victory!
   14. Yardape Posted: March 08, 2013 at 03:57 PM (#4384265)
Honestly, Canada's lineup doesn't look that much better than Italy's. Votto and Morneau obviously are the difference makers. But otherwise it's minor league and marginal major league talent. And Italy has got a mix of major league and minor league talent as well.


I agree. Without Lawrie, Martin and any major-league pitchers, Canada isn't that loaded. It seems like the 2009 edition was stronger. And then lost to Italy.
   15. Gamingboy Posted: March 08, 2013 at 03:58 PM (#4384267)


I agree. Without Lawrie, Martin and any major-league pitchers, Canada isn't that loaded. It seems like the 2009 edition was stronger. And then lost to Italy.


If memory serves, the Canadians greatly underestimated Italy, and didn't start Scott Richmond (who was the best MLB starter they had at the time), hoping to save him for a game against the loser of USA-Venezuela.
   16. Good cripple hitter Posted: March 08, 2013 at 04:00 PM (#4384270)
Adam Loewen is an outfielder now?!


He has been since 2009. The Jays signed him and tried to rehab him as a batter. Spent a year in high A (.236/.340/.355) a year in AA (.246/.351/.412), and 2011 in AAA (.306/.377/.508 in Las Vegas) and a brief stint in Toronto as a September callup (.188/.297/.313 in 32 ABs over 14 games). Last year he played with the Mets AAA team (.227/.328/.391, primarily at 1B), and now he's back in the Jays organization.

Toronto would have loved for that 2011 to be anything other than a desert mirage, but right now it looks like he's stalled out and there's certainly no space for him with the big league team.
   17. JJ1986 Posted: March 08, 2013 at 04:01 PM (#4384272)
They also could have had Oscar Taveras.
   18. Good cripple hitter Posted: March 08, 2013 at 04:02 PM (#4384274)
If memory serves, the Canadians greatly underestimated Italy, and didn't start Scott Richmond (who was the best MLB starter they had at the time), hoping to save him for a game against the loser of USA-Venezuela.


They didn't even get a single inning out of Richmond. Whitt got blasted for his managing that year, but he's still got his job.
   19. Mess with the Meat, you get the Wad! Posted: March 08, 2013 at 04:03 PM (#4384278)
huge double play there with rizzo up to bat now with 2 outs
   20. Gamingboy Posted: March 08, 2013 at 04:10 PM (#4384286)
I welcome our new Italian overlords.
   21. Mess with the Meat, you get the Wad! Posted: March 08, 2013 at 04:10 PM (#4384287)
another run for italy
   22. Mess with the Meat, you get the Wad! Posted: March 08, 2013 at 04:11 PM (#4384288)
it would be odd to see them and the Netherlands in the semi's
   23. Good cripple hitter Posted: March 08, 2013 at 04:11 PM (#4384289)
I'm not sure if Italy advancing to the next round would be worth watching Canada lose to them twice... Probably.
   24. Mess with the Meat, you get the Wad! Posted: March 08, 2013 at 04:12 PM (#4384291)
wow the double play is even bigger now....home run to make it 5-1
   25. Good cripple hitter Posted: March 08, 2013 at 04:14 PM (#4384293)
I want Ernie Whitt to put on a pair of gloves and have a mound visit. Something needs to be done to stop the Italians.
   26. Gamingboy Posted: March 08, 2013 at 04:15 PM (#4384295)
I want Ernie Whitt to put on a pair of gloves and have a mound visit.


Victor Mesa FTW.
   27. Good cripple hitter Posted: March 08, 2013 at 04:19 PM (#4384296)
I'm not going to lie, I'm tempted to stay up until / wake up at 5 AM just to see if Mesa's still wearing gloves for the game vs Chinese Taipei.
   28. Gamingboy Posted: March 08, 2013 at 04:22 PM (#4384299)
I think I heard somewhere that if you were to remove the ringers, Italy would probably be a little better than Brazil: competitive, but not much depth, and mainly made up of guys who either sucked at soccer or who have some type of connection to a baseball country (the hubs of Italian baseball are around places that have history with American troops, for example).

But with the ringers... and, well, look at what's going on.
   29. Good cripple hitter Posted: March 08, 2013 at 04:23 PM (#4384301)
I like the ringers. Makes things interesting. Had "Team Israel" advanced to this round it could've been a fun team to watch.
   30. Gamingboy Posted: March 08, 2013 at 04:28 PM (#4384308)

I like the ringers. Makes things interesting. Had "Team Israel" advanced to this round it could've been a fun team to watch.


I feel like in the future, though, as some of these countries get better and better, they either remove or limit them. It'd be a good sign if in the 2033 WBC the Italian national team was mostly made up of people who were actually Italian or were at the very least very close to it (like having a parent from Italy, instead of somebody three or four generations ago who was Italian).
   31. Gamingboy Posted: March 08, 2013 at 04:31 PM (#4384312)
I wonder: Would guys like Adam Loewen and Rick Ankiel be able to be super-emergency pitchers if an MLB team was in, like, the 18th inning? And would they be even slightly as good as they might have been back when they were just pitchers?
   32. Good cripple hitter Posted: March 08, 2013 at 04:34 PM (#4384316)
In Ankiel's case, I'm sure he wouldn't be a super-emergency pitcher. They'd use anybody else first.

IIRC, Loewen's got chronic injuries, I'm not sure he'd be better than a random OFer.

In both cases, teams would likely prefer to use a utility infielder who just threw the ball over the middle over them.
   33. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: March 08, 2013 at 04:34 PM (#4384317)
I'd like to see Europe do well in the abstract but am rooting against Italy - these ringers are just silly ('my great grandfather was born in Palermo in 1892').
   34. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: March 08, 2013 at 04:40 PM (#4384324)
Teams like Italy and Spain are a farce. Enough already. Team Italy? Team Gabagool more like.(said as an Italian American)
   35. Gamingboy Posted: March 08, 2013 at 04:46 PM (#4384330)
Now, Weekly Journalist, at least give Alex Liddi and Alessandro Maestri some respect. They are real Italians.


But, yeah, I highly dislike Spain's way of it. They didn't even pretend to try and find Spanish players (I think they only have one). And, unlike the Italians, I highly doubt the Spanish ringers have even the slightest appreciation of the culture they are representing. At least the Italians and the Israelis were probably being harangued by grandparents and such, and may well have even visited the countries they were representing.

What's really sad is that apparently Spain actually once had a pretty robust Baseball culture, but they got so frustrated getting their asses whipped by the Netherlands and Italy that they basically have been trying to use as many ringers as possible since then, at the expense of actually giving the actual Spaniards experience.
   36. Jarrod HypnerotomachiaPoliphili(Teddy F. Ballgame) Posted: March 08, 2013 at 05:02 PM (#4384345)
I have a Real Madrid cap from a baseball squad sponsored by the soccer giant in the 1930s. They do have a baseball tradition of sorts. And yes, Italy uses ringers to some extent, but they also have one of the best national leagues in Europe.
   37. Gamingboy Posted: March 08, 2013 at 05:07 PM (#4384348)
Canada needs a big inning.... now.
   38. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: March 08, 2013 at 05:08 PM (#4384351)
Oh, I root for Liddi and friends in the States - and am cool w/, say, Granato - but this is just comical.
As for Spain, some of the Cubans now have real a connection to the country, right? Also, the Braves have an academy in Tenerife, iirc ... the infrastructure is making baby steps.
   39. Gamingboy Posted: March 08, 2013 at 05:10 PM (#4384353)
As for Spain, some of the Cubans now have real a connection to the country, right?


Yeah, some of the Cubans- usually the ones who aren't good enough to go to the majors- move to Spain or play in the semi-pro league there or in other countries.
   40. Gamingboy Posted: March 08, 2013 at 05:19 PM (#4384362)
That was not the big inning.
   41. Yardape Posted: March 08, 2013 at 05:28 PM (#4384370)
Whitt's (non)use of Richmond in '09 was questionable, but really Canada should score more than 2 runs against Italy. In either year.
   42. Good cripple hitter Posted: March 08, 2013 at 05:33 PM (#4384377)
Yes, bunt for a hit down 4 in the 7th. That's a great idea.
   43. Yardape Posted: March 08, 2013 at 05:33 PM (#4384378)
Yes, bunt for a hit down 4 in the 7th. That's a great idea.


Still better than the sac bat earlier in the game.
   44. Good cripple hitter Posted: March 08, 2013 at 05:41 PM (#4384384)
That didn't look like it hit Morneau at all.
   45. Gamingboy Posted: March 08, 2013 at 05:42 PM (#4384385)
Do not go gently into that good night, eh?
   46. Yardape Posted: March 08, 2013 at 05:43 PM (#4384386)
At least it's not 6-2 anymore. I was getting sick of that score.
   47. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: March 08, 2013 at 05:45 PM (#4384389)
I didn't know Canada lost Lawrie. That's a huge blow.
   48. Gamingboy Posted: March 08, 2013 at 05:49 PM (#4384396)
Big thing here though is that Italy's bullpen doesn't have Grilli. This is a whole new game.
   49. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: March 08, 2013 at 05:50 PM (#4384400)
Now a guy named Sweeney is pitching for Italy...
   50. JJ1986 Posted: March 08, 2013 at 05:51 PM (#4384403)
Brian Sweeney relieving Dan Serafini sounds like an Atlantic League game. From 2010.
   51. Devin has a deep burning passion for fuzzy socks Posted: March 08, 2013 at 05:59 PM (#4384420)
Almost. Serafini was there in 2010 and 2012. Sweeney was only in 2011.
   52. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: March 08, 2013 at 06:02 PM (#4384425)
Ah crap...
   53. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: March 08, 2013 at 06:03 PM (#4384426)
Embarrassing
   54. Good cripple hitter Posted: March 08, 2013 at 06:04 PM (#4384428)
Well, when someone like Drew Butera beats you, you just have to tip your hat.
   55. Bourbon Samurai in Asia Posted: March 08, 2013 at 06:04 PM (#4384429)
Dang, look at Italy
   56. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: March 08, 2013 at 06:05 PM (#4384430)
As much as I love the WBC, #### like a team of fourth generation Italian Americans advancing makes it seem stupid.
   57. Gamingboy Posted: March 08, 2013 at 06:06 PM (#4384431)
Italy is better than everybody gave them credit, but THEY ARE NOT as good as Canada is making them look.
   58. Yardape Posted: March 08, 2013 at 06:06 PM (#4384432)
How have we allowed Italy to score 9 runs? Arrgghh.
   59. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: March 08, 2013 at 06:06 PM (#4384433)
Two outs and nobody on too.
   60. Yardape Posted: March 08, 2013 at 06:14 PM (#4384440)
Come on, score a bunch of runs.
   61. Yardape Posted: March 08, 2013 at 06:15 PM (#4384442)
That wasn't it.
   62. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: March 08, 2013 at 06:16 PM (#4384444)
[56] Well, it's baseball, which can get really crazy in a sample size of three games. And to be fair, in 2006, the top 8 teams all got out of the first round. And in 2009, 7 of the 8 did again with the Netherlands knocking out the DR being the exception. So, yeah, this year has been kind of crazy, but we were overdue for some crazy.
   63. staring out the window and waiting for fenderbelly Posted: March 08, 2013 at 06:16 PM (#4384445)
The six-fingered glove is kind of cool. Isn't switching your pitching hand on the mound illegal in MLB? I'm not sure why I think that though.
   64. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: March 08, 2013 at 06:16 PM (#4384447)
So Italy's game with Team USA will be meaningless for them. That's awesome.
   65. staring out the window and waiting for fenderbelly Posted: March 08, 2013 at 06:17 PM (#4384448)
The six-fingered glove is kind of cool. Isn't switching your pitching hand on the mound illegal in MLB? I'm not sure why I think that though.
   66. Gamingboy Posted: March 08, 2013 at 06:17 PM (#4384449)
The six-fingered glove is kind of cool. Isn't switching your pitching hand on the mound illegal in MLB? I'm not sure why I think that though.



When Venditte was drafted, they had to come up with a rule that he could not switch during an at-bat... mainly because he and a switch-hitter kept switching from side to side.
   67. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: March 08, 2013 at 06:18 PM (#4384452)
I have zero problem with crazy. If a bunch of guys named Tomaso and Andrea and Niccolo had flukily knocked out these teams, it would be great. I just don't care for the ringer thing. I loves me some Honkballers and Taiwan.
   68. staring out the window and waiting for fenderbelly Posted: March 08, 2013 at 06:25 PM (#4384463)
Laggy double post.

Thanks GB.
   69. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: March 08, 2013 at 06:26 PM (#4384469)
[64] Italy will have clinched advancement if before playing USA if either USA beats Mexico and then Mexico beats Canada or if Mexico beats USA, then Canada beats Mexico.
   70. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: March 08, 2013 at 06:29 PM (#4384480)
Canada really really sucks.
   71. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: March 08, 2013 at 06:30 PM (#4384481)
And Italy has the mercy run on base in the 8th
   72. Yardape Posted: March 08, 2013 at 06:31 PM (#4384483)
This may be my most embarrassing moment as a Canadian.
   73. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: March 08, 2013 at 06:31 PM (#4384485)
OH MERCY!!

Edit: too soon, call overturned
   74. Good cripple hitter Posted: March 08, 2013 at 06:31 PM (#4384486)
You know, I was going to say something else, but "Canada really really sucks." sums things up nicely.
   75. Good cripple hitter Posted: March 08, 2013 at 06:32 PM (#4384489)
I wouldn't even bother reviewing this. Either you get mercy ruled now or two batters later. Who cares?
   76. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: March 08, 2013 at 06:32 PM (#4384491)
As Ned Martin would say...Mercy!
   77. Gamingboy Posted: March 08, 2013 at 06:33 PM (#4384494)
Canada get a stay of execution.
   78. Good cripple hitter Posted: March 08, 2013 at 06:34 PM (#4384497)
Canada has the infield in down 9 in the 8th. I'm not sure if that's funny or sad.
   79. Gamingboy Posted: March 08, 2013 at 06:35 PM (#4384498)
This really shows how important depth is in this tournament. Team USA can have a bunch of no-shows and still put out a team that has very few weakspots. Canada has a small group of their players not show up and this happens.
   80. Good cripple hitter Posted: March 08, 2013 at 06:36 PM (#4384501)
Over.
   81. Yardape Posted: March 08, 2013 at 06:42 PM (#4384513)
This really shows how important depth is in this tournament. Team USA can have a bunch of no-shows and still put out a team that has very few weakspots. Canada has a small group of their players not show up and this happens.


Especially with pitching, I think.

And maybe I'm just a bitter Canadian fan, but I agree with WJ. Cinderellas are fine, but that's not really what Italy is.
   82. Jarrod HypnerotomachiaPoliphili(Teddy F. Ballgame) Posted: March 08, 2013 at 06:45 PM (#4384517)
Holy cats. Or santo gatti.

I stepped away for a bit. Did Italy really just mercy rule Canada?
   83. RMc's desperate, often sordid world Posted: March 08, 2013 at 06:49 PM (#4384524)
So Italy's game with Team USA will be meaningless for them. That's awesome.

Not quite. It's still possible that Italy and two other teams could finish 2-1, with the fourth team 0-3. Tie-breakers are based on "Team Quality Balance" (basically net runs per inning, explained here), so if they get blown out by the USA, they could be in danger. But, yeah, they're almost assured a spot in the second round now. Forza Italia!
   84. Yardape Posted: March 08, 2013 at 06:53 PM (#4384534)
Puerto Rico shows how to jump on an overmatched European team. Canada should take notes.
   85. Gamingboy Posted: March 08, 2013 at 06:58 PM (#4384541)

Puerto Rico shows how to jump on an overmatched European team. Canada should take notes.

To be fair, Spain's ringers (with maybe three or four exceptions) are nowhere near as good as Italy's.
   86. Dale Sams Posted: March 08, 2013 at 07:23 PM (#4384561)
If i recall, a player has to have a grandparent born in the 'ringer country' and documentation of course. Not 3-4 generations removed...etc...I think the World Cup has the same standards.
   87. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: March 08, 2013 at 07:29 PM (#4384565)
Pretty sure it's an Olymoic standard they are using which is probably consistent with the World Cup.
   88. Gamingboy Posted: March 08, 2013 at 07:37 PM (#4384573)
If i recall, a player has to have a grandparent born in the 'ringer country' and documentation of course. Not 3-4 generations removed...etc...I think the World Cup has the same standards.


However, there is also a rule where it can depend on the country's rule for example, where if you'd be able to be a citizen of that country OR your parents or grandparents could have been able to be citizens of that country, it counts. So, for example, basically any Jewish person could play for Team Israel.
   89. Gamingboy Posted: March 08, 2013 at 07:39 PM (#4384574)
Team America. Still not sure about Mauer in clean-up and Stanton so far down, although I guess the rationale is that if Rollins or Phillips gets into scoring position even a single could bring them home.
   90. Gamingboy Posted: March 08, 2013 at 08:08 PM (#4384594)
Mexico:
Arredondo CF
Pena 2B
Cruz 3B
A. Gonzalez 1B
Cantu DH
K. Garcia RF
E. Gonzalez
LF Felix C
Velazquez SS
Starting Pitcher: Yovani Gallardo
   91. JJ1986 Posted: March 08, 2013 at 08:15 PM (#4384599)
I'd quibble with Rollins leading off, but every manager would do that. What I absolutely do not understand is Hosmer hitting ahead of Stanton.

I'd guess Tex was going to hit 6th and they're too lazy to change it.
   92. Gamingboy Posted: March 08, 2013 at 08:30 PM (#4384609)
It'll probably be weird for Milwaukee fans to see Gallardo against Braun.
   93. Gamingboy Posted: March 08, 2013 at 08:37 PM (#4384612)
I have to say that this game tonight is the biggest worry I have for Team USA in this round. So much can go wrong with a knuckler on the mound, the Mexicans are probably pissed after yesterday, this will be the first game for Team USA and it'll be a divided crowd.
   94. Good cripple hitter Posted: March 08, 2013 at 08:38 PM (#4384613)
I'd guess Tex was going to hit 6th and they're too lazy to change it.


I'm pretty sure that's why Taylor Green was hitting second for Canada today.
   95. Gamingboy Posted: March 08, 2013 at 09:02 PM (#4384626)
Spain is threatening!
   96. Gamingboy Posted: March 08, 2013 at 09:03 PM (#4384627)
Nope, nevermind, Puerto Rico had a Dutch special.
   97. RollingWave Posted: March 08, 2013 at 09:25 PM (#4384630)
This may be my most embarrassing moment as a Canadian.


Well, you could lose to the Yanks in Hockey... oh wait.

   98. Gamingboy Posted: March 08, 2013 at 09:41 PM (#4384637)
Presented without comment:

John Blundell ?@JBMLBPR

Playing in the Team USA locker room right now "Real American" by Rick Derringer.

   99. Gamingboy Posted: March 08, 2013 at 09:57 PM (#4384646)
Okay, a few minutes away from USA-Mexico.
   100. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: March 08, 2013 at 10:02 PM (#4384649)
I'm going out tonight. Hopefully, the place I'm going is actually going to show the WBC and not just basketball.
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