Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Sunday, September 08, 2019

What is the greatest collection of talent ever on one roster?

1. The 2005 Yankees, who—at 1,103 WAR—currently stand as the second-greatest collection of baseball greatness ever
The key acquisition: Randy Johnson (acquired the previous offseason)
The key debut: Robinson Cano
The other main stars: Alex Rodriguez, Derek Jeter, Mike Mussina, Kevin Brown, Gary Sheffield, Mariano Rivera
Famous players you’ll never associate with that team: Ruben Sierra, Al Leiter
Total All-Stars (at any point in the players’ careers): 23

They are so close—just 35 behind the 1928 A’s—and, six months ago, I might have let myself dream. Two Yankees from that club are still active, almost 15 years later: Cano and Melky Cabrera. Cano was, as recently as last year, still a very valuable major leaguer, and not long ago he was an MVP candidate. Cabrera was still a league-average hitter and just 34 years old. (He ranks sixth among active players in career hits, if you can believe it.)

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: September 08, 2019 at 11:28 AM | 58 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: yankees

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. cardsfanboy Posted: September 08, 2019 at 01:56 PM (#5877544)
This is a fun way at looking at it.. Obviously we will never know where an active team is going to stand, but it's going to be hard to beat that A's team...
   2. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 08, 2019 at 02:05 PM (#5877547)
I would go with the opposite approach. This way rewards teams with lots of great players who are at the end of the road, so their actual talent probably isn't so hot.

I'd rather see which team had the most future WAR on the roster.
   3. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 08, 2019 at 02:21 PM (#5877550)
The most WAR that season would measure of how good a team is - all the before and after is not of great consequence.
   4. Mefisto Posted: September 08, 2019 at 02:25 PM (#5877552)
I'm pretty sure the best Giants' team by this measure would be 1965, at 849.8.
   5. cardsfanboy Posted: September 08, 2019 at 02:31 PM (#5877554)
I'd rather see which team had the most future WAR on the roster.


That is another way to look at it.. there is no right or wrong way in this respect, both things have some interesting value. I would love to see that list also. I don't think we need to limit our analysis simply based upon one way to look at it or another... a good article could absolutely be written about which team had the best future value on it...especially in this day of free agency.. (The Cardinals last couple of seasons have seen players leave the team that have posted good years etc.) It's a great way to look at teams.. at the same time this article is another way to look at team, as it points out, it's not just about the past performance, but getting future performance etc..
   6. Ziggy is done with Dominican discotheques Posted: September 08, 2019 at 02:43 PM (#5877558)
Lowest total WAR would be also interesting. It probably wouldn't just be a list of the worst teams. The 1962 Mets had Richie Ashburn, Gil Hodges, and Gene Woodling to pull the total up. As well as a bunch of 15ish WAR careers from guys like Vinegar Bend Mizel, Roger Craig, Gus Bell, and Frank Thomas.

Let's look at the 1899 Spiders. Lave Cross and his 46 WAR would get in the way. Chief Zimmer had a good career. Jack Clements would hurt their ranking. Basically all of their starting eight had negative career WAR though.
   7. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 08, 2019 at 03:15 PM (#5877568)
The 1962 Mets had Richie Ashburn, Gil Hodges, and Gene Woodling to pull the total up. As well as a bunch of 15ish WAR careers from guys like Vinegar Bend Mizel, Roger Craig, Gus Bell, and Frank Thomas.


The 1966 Cubs, who lost 103, had about 750 WAR, thanks in large part to washed up or not yet great players like Robin Roberts, Curt Simmons, Bob Buhl, Ernie Banks, Fergie Jenkins, Ken Holtzman, Ernie Broglio, Larry Jackson, and Frank Thomas. It's likely that the 103 win 2016 Cubs will not match them.
   8. Ziggy is done with Dominican discotheques Posted: September 08, 2019 at 03:37 PM (#5877574)
Huh, today was the day that I learned that Robin Roberts played for the Cubs.

I have his 1962 Topps baseball card, which I like because it says that he's on the Yankees (despite the picture clearly being of him in a Phillies uniform). It seems that the Yankees bought him from the Phillies after the 1961 season, and released him in May before he got into a game for NYY. He'd go on to post a 133 ERA+ for the Orioles in 1962, and, apparently, play for the Cubs a few years later.
   9. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 08, 2019 at 05:20 PM (#5877601)
Obviously we will never know where an active team is going to stand, but it's going to be hard to beat that [1928] A's team...

Well, other than the 1928 Yankees, who beat them in real time.....
   10. DavidFoss Posted: September 08, 2019 at 06:21 PM (#5877605)
Let's look at the 1899 Spiders.

I’ve done this before. If I recall correctly, the answer wasn’t interesting. It was a UA team, a team that only played a few weeks and folded, or maybe both. My laptop is packed away. I can try to look later.
   11. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 08, 2019 at 06:54 PM (#5877610)
I’ve done this before. If I recall correctly, the answer wasn’t interesting. It was a UA team, a team that only played a few weeks and folded, or maybe both. My laptop is packed away. I can try to look later.


Well, among teams that played full seasons in real leagues, the 1969 Pilots are pretty nondescript. Best player was Tommy Harper at 25 WAR. Several others with 18-22 range. No washed up superstars to pull them up. They probably don't have more than about 200-250.
   12. Baseballs Most Beloved Figure Posted: September 08, 2019 at 07:39 PM (#5877613)
The 1969 Royals were led by Dick Drago's 20.4 WAR and he was followed by Jim Rooker 17 and Lou Piniella 12.5.
   13. Mefisto Posted: September 08, 2019 at 07:44 PM (#5877614)
Early bad teams are likely to have less WAR simply because the roster limits were smaller and fewer players got used during a season.
   14. cardsfanboy Posted: September 08, 2019 at 08:15 PM (#5877616)
I get the concept of looking for the worst team... I just don't find it interesting... I think the original article concept is interesting.. I think the point put out by Snapper in post 2 is also interesting... and heck there are other interesting ways to look at it such as centering a team on a five year average war (or any other number of years) or some other way of looking at it... but the concept of worst just doesn't seem that appealing. You would almost have to do a three year average or something just to make it interesting.
   15. Howie Menckel Posted: September 08, 2019 at 08:31 PM (#5877617)
speaking of 1969, the Miracle Mets used only 15 pitchers.

but their top 6 produced 1118 wins

Ryan 324
Seaver 311
Koosman 222

Cardwell 102
McGraw 96
AJackson 67

the rest (mainly Koonce/Gentry/Taylor/McAndrew with 175) combined for close to 200 more wins to add to the tally
   16. Walt Davis Posted: September 08, 2019 at 08:32 PM (#5877618)
By the way, are we counting negative WAR?
   17. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 08, 2019 at 08:54 PM (#5877624)
speaking of 1969, the Miracle Mets used only 15 pitchers.

but their top 6 produced 1118 wins

Ryan 324
Seaver 311
Koosman 222

Cardwell 102
McGraw 96
AJackson 67


The 1987 Cubs used only 15 as well. Their top 6 produced 1156 wins:

Maddux - 355
Moyer - 269
Sutcliffe - 171
Sanderson - 163
Tewksbury - 110
Trout - 83

The rest of the staff produced 284, plus 684 saves.
   18. Walt Davis Posted: September 08, 2019 at 09:04 PM (#5877625)
On the worst, you probably want to disqualify the war-time teams too. 17-year-old Granny Hamner and 39-year-old Chuck Klein and their 88 combined PAs should be enough to keep the 44 Phils off the bottom (and Jimmie Foxx arrived in 45) but any team that couldn't find a legend to warm the bench would have been scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Non-sequitur but in checking out expansion teams (they seem to be off the hook probably), I stumbled across pitcher Al Cicotte who was indeed the great-nephew of Eddie. But because he seemed to be wearing a Cubs hat (maybe a 60s Cleveland?) I was curious -- but he never played for the Cubs. So I looked at the transactions where I found:

October 11, 1960: Traded by Toronto (International) to the St. Louis Cardinals for a player to be named later, Cal Browning, Leon Wagner and cash. The St. Louis Cardinals sent Ellis Burton (January 26, 1961) to Toronto (International) to complete the trade.

I'm wondering if this might have been the last trade between majors and an independent minors team? I mean Leon Wagner was about to become a very good player (Toronto totally ripped off the Cards). OK, obviously not the last trade as in April Wagner was traded from Toronto to the Angels ... for Lou Johnson, another pretty good player. In Nov 61, based on Lou Johnson's transactions, the Braves came to a working agreement with Toronto, thereby acquiring Johnson (and I assume anybody else they had).

Teammates the 1961 Toronto Maple Leafs were Sparky Anderson and Chuck Tanner! Steve Demeter is the only other name I recognize. And they had Marvelous Marv's brother Faye.

So was Lou Johnson the last player traded from the majors to the minors? (I suppose there must be some Mexican League transactions, etc.)
   19. DavidFoss Posted: September 08, 2019 at 09:05 PM (#5877626)
I got my laptop, and reran the scripts which reproduced the 'best teams' list. I scrolled to the bottom to see who was there.

For academic purposes, here are the silly short-season 19th century teams with negative cumulative player-career WAR:

1884,WS7,AA,-0.03
1872,WS3,NA,-2.9
1875,BR2,NA,-7.38
1873,BL4,NA,-8.61
1875,WS6,NA,-13.86

The worst 20th century team is a Federal League team:

1914,KCF,FL,53.68

Dropping FL teams and sticking to the 20th century, I get the following:

1906,BRO,NL,121.72
1972,SDN,NL,118.59
1948,SLA,AL,117.71
2019,TOR,AL,115.98
1908,BRO,NL,104.2
2019,BAL,AL,75.03
1902,SLN,NL,54.51

The two teams this year won't stay long, but its fun to see them.
   20. DavidFoss Posted: September 08, 2019 at 09:17 PM (#5877628)
I'd rather see which team had the most future WAR on the roster.

While I was at it, I did a few filters on the career value split which might be interesting.

Looking at only this-year-plus-future-WAR, it is still the second A's dynasty, but understandably moves to an earlier year:

yearID,teamID,lgID,WAR
1925
,PHA,AL,537.28
1989
,TEX,AL,533.95
1915
,BOS,AL,528.87
1900
,PIT,NL,527.49
1962
,SFN,NL,510.96
1901
,PIT,NL,507.83
1909
,PHA,AL,504.34
1954
,ML1,NL,503.14
1926
,PHA,AL,500.51 


The 1989 Rangers? Didn't expect that.

Doing the opposite... this-year-plus-past-WAR, it is mostly modern Yankee teams:

yearID,teamID,lgID,WAR
2005
,NYA,AL,864.3
2012
,NYA,AL,851.34
2004
,NYA,AL,779.55
2013
,NYA,AL,779.49
2006
,NYA,AL,768.15
1979
,NYA,AL,762.15
1928
,PHA,AL,757.54
2008
,NYA,AL,749.14
2007
,NYA,AL,746.19 


For kicks, I did a five-year-window, including only WAR from the current year and the two years before and the two years after and got this list:

yearID,teamID,lgID,WAR
2004
,BOS,AL,314.89
2009
,BOS,AL,297.33
2005
,BOS,AL,295.1
2009
,NYA,AL,289.55
1997
,NYA,AL,288.63
2003
,BOS,AL,283.9
2002
,NYA,AL,283.21
2004
,NYA,AL,282.73
2005
,NYA,AL,281.26 
   21. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: September 08, 2019 at 10:25 PM (#5877635)

The 1989 Rangers? Didn't expect that.


In John Schuerholz's book he says that there were only two jobs he would have left the Royals for around that time because he felt they were loaded with young talent, the Braves and the Rangers.
   22. Jose is Absurdly Unemployed Posted: September 08, 2019 at 10:36 PM (#5877636)
I get the concept of looking for the worst team... I just don't find it interesting... I think the original article concept is interesting.. I think the point put out by Snapper in post 2 is also interesting... and heck there are other interesting ways to look at it such as centering a team on a five year average war (or any other number of years) or some other way of looking at it


I agree with this. I think it is an interesting question and depending on how you want to ask it can get you to different answers. I’m no numbers whiz but I suspect there is some kind of mix along the lines of the old power/speed number that Bill James rolled out where you balance current year WAR and career WAR. The calculation should be such that the ‘21 Yankees get more credit for Babe Ruth than the ‘35 Braves.

But it’s a fun question and an interesting article. There is no “right” answer it’s just going to be how you choose to evaluate it.
   23. Nasty Nate Posted: September 08, 2019 at 10:57 PM (#5877638)
2019,TOR,AL,115.98
1908,BRO,NL,104.2
2019,BAL,AL,75.03
1902,SLN,NL,54.51

The two teams this year won't stay long, but its fun to see them.
Well, one of them won't stay long.
   24. Kurt Posted: September 08, 2019 at 11:18 PM (#5877639)
In John Schuerholz's book he says that there were only two jobs he would have left the Royals for around that time because he felt they were loaded with young talent, the Braves and the Rangers.


I was curious so I looked them up; having a 19 year old Sammy Sosa and a 20 year old Juan Gonzalez will certainly boost you up a "future WAR" list. Plus Palmeiro (24), Kevin Brown (24), Ruben Sierra (23)...it's a pretty awesome collection of young talent. Even Dean Palmer played another 13 years. Pete Incaviglia was 25, I would have guessed he was 10 years older than Palmeiro or Sierra.
   25. Walt Davis Posted: September 08, 2019 at 11:25 PM (#5877641)
Well, one of them won't stay long.

Yeah, while the O's have nowhere to go but up, I'm not sure they'll be going very far up. Their offensive roster is both pretty pathetic and pretty old. Mancini will add a few more WAR, maybe Hanser Alberto is for real and will add a good number of WAR ... Cs have weird career arcs so maybe Chance Sisco will turn into something. But, as is, it doesn't look like much potential to add there. On the pitching side, Means is the main hope and presumably Bundy has some WAR left. Add it all up and I'm not convinced this roster has more than 25 WAR left in them and I might enter "shocked" territory somewhere around 35-40. In the olden days, this is the team that would have given 50 PA to Hanley.
   26. SoSH U at work Posted: September 08, 2019 at 11:27 PM (#5877642)
The 1987 Cubs used only 15 as well. Their top 6 produced 1156 wins:

Maddux - 355
Moyer - 269
Sutcliffe - 171
Sanderson - 163
Tewksbury - 110
Trout - 83

The rest of the staff produced 284, plus 684 saves.


The six most-frequent starters of the 1998 Atlanta Braves produced 1,411 wins.

Maddux - 355
Glavine - 305
Neagle - 124
Millwood - 169
Smoltz - 213
D. Martinez - 245

The rest of the staff (they used 19 total) tacked on another 514 wins for 1,925 total.

Paul Byrd led the field with 109, followed by Bruce Chen with 82.

   27. Itchy Row Posted: September 09, 2019 at 12:32 AM (#5877646)
I remember thinking something like this would be interesting with career home runs when I looked at the roster of the 1975 Red Sox in an old Baseball Encyclopedia.
   28. Walt Davis Posted: September 09, 2019 at 12:46 AM (#5877648)
That Braves sextet also combined for 14,709 Ks (even Millwood topped 2000). Chen, Perez and Byrd combine for just short of 3,000. I'll let somebody else check the rest.

I know, we're just a few years away from teams averaging 14,000 Ks a season but until then, this will be mighty impressive.

(yes, that would be a LOT of passed balls or a LOT of extra inning games.)
   29. DavidFoss Posted: September 09, 2019 at 08:17 AM (#5877660)
I remember thinking something like this would be interesting with career home runs when I looked at the roster of the 1975 Red Sox in an old Baseball Encyclopedia.

The 1975 Red Sox were the top team before the 1989 Rangers. Now they are 26th. The 1996 Indians are still #1 with 4217 and the 2013 Yankees in second place with 4148. The 2013 team still has a handful of active players (Cano, Gardner, Nunez, Reynolds, Romine) so they have a shot of catching them.

The 1975 Red Sox had 13 more than the 1959 Braves.
   30. DavidFoss Posted: September 09, 2019 at 08:25 AM (#5877662)
For pitcher Wins, the runaway upset winner is the 1966 Cubs who went 59-103 knocking the Mets out of 10th place for the first time in their history.

yearID,teamID,lgID,W,SO
1966
,CHN,NL,2117
2005
,NYA,AL,1954
2003
,NYA,AL,1929
1998
,ATL,NL,1925
1980
,NYA,AL,1900
1978
,LAN,NL,1888
1976
,BAL,AL,1877
1992
,TOR,AL,1870
1987
,NYA,AL,1866
1979
,NYA,AL,1857
1966
,PHI,NL,1843
2000
,NYA,AL,1826
1955
,CLE,AL,1802 

   31. DavidFoss Posted: September 09, 2019 at 09:25 AM (#5877679)
The team strikeout list is a bunch of modern Yankees teams with the aforementioned 1966 Cubs just getting bumped out of the top ten

yearID,teamID,lgID,SO
2005
,NYA,AL,24422
2003
,NYA,AL,23455
2000
,NYA,AL,22411
2007
,NYA,AL,22082
1998
,ATL,NL,21953
2003
,BOS,AL,21753
2009
,PHI,NL,21696
2010
,NYA,AL,21610
2004
,BOS,AL,21111
1992
,TOR,AL,21090
1966
,CHN,NL,21083 
   32. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 09, 2019 at 09:34 AM (#5877682)
Looking at only this-year-plus-future-WAR, it is still the second A's dynasty, but understandably moves to an earlier year:

yearID,teamID,lgID,WAR
1925,PHA,AL,537.28
1989,TEX,AL,533.95
1915,BOS,AL,528.87
1900,PIT,NL,527.49
1962,SFN,NL,510.96
1901,PIT,NL,507.83
1909,PHA,AL,504.34
1954,ML1,NL,503.14
1926,PHA,AL,500.51 


Thanks David.

Interesting that only one Ruth team makes the list, and no Bonds teams. In general it looks like the 100 WAR club is not well represented here.
   33. DavidFoss Posted: September 09, 2019 at 09:36 AM (#5877684)
I agree with the above opinion that the this-year-and-future split is much more interesting.

HR:

yearID,teamID,lgID,HR
1989
,TEX,AL,3009
1996
,CLE,AL,2695
1995
,CLE,AL,2632
1998
,LAN,NL,2605
1996
,ATL,NL,2560
1998
,FLO,NL,2495
1997
,CLE,AL,2489
1991
,TEX,AL,2430
1994
,SEA,AL,2373
1998
,CLE,AL,2361 


Wins:

yearID,teamID,lgID,W
1978
,LAN,NL,1277
1970
,SLN,NL,1264
1969
,SLN,NL,1163
1976
,BAL,AL,1156
1964
,CLE,AL,1149
1992
,TOR,AL,1117
1967
,CHN,NL,1115
1974
,LAN,NL,1098
1991
,TOR,AL,1098 


Strikeouts:

yearID,teamID,lgID,SO
1969
,NYN,NL,14449
1971
,NYN,NL,14404
1970
,NYN,NL,13830
1968
,NYN,NL,13784
1992
,TOR,AL,12854
1970
,SLN,NL,12758
1996
,FLO,NL,12599
1991
,TOR,AL,12474
1998
,ATL,NL,12382
1964
,CLE,AL,12328
1989
,MON,NL,12257
1978
,LAN,NL,12242
1990
,ATL,NL,11885 

   34. Blastin Posted: September 09, 2019 at 10:02 AM (#5877693)
1989,TEX,AL,3009


What was that, Sosa, Gonzalez, Palmeiro, Sierra primarily? I guess that's a lot.

Edit: I looked it up, forgot about Hall of Famer Baines.

But Sosa and Gonzalez baaaarely played, so, the opposite of what Snapper said, this rewards teams that don't even really use future great hitters, right? Or else their future total wouldn't be as high.
   35. Tom Nawrocki Posted: September 09, 2019 at 10:30 AM (#5877709)
Wins:

yearID,teamID,lgID,W
1978,LAN,NL,1277
1970,SLN,NL,1264
1969,SLN,NL,1163


Wouldn't have guessed those Cardinals teams ranked so high. Gibson was already in mid-career, but you had a young Steve Carlton and Jerry Reuss...

OK, cheating and looking them up, you also had a 23-year-old Mike Torrez, plus Reggie Cleveland chipped in 100 wins. But none of those guys other than Gibson did a whole lot in St. Louis.
   36. Davo Posted: September 09, 2019 at 10:31 AM (#5877710)
1998,FLO,NL,2495

Oh that’s an awesome one. Taking full advantage of that big trade! Mike Piazza, Gary Sheffield, Charles Johnson, and Todd Zeile’s partial seasons boost this up! But also, damn, they really did have a deep collection of young talent: Derek Lee, Cliff Floyd, Preston Wilson, Sea Bass, Mark Kotsay, and both Brian Daubach AND Kevin Millar!
   37. Itchy Row Posted: September 09, 2019 at 10:34 AM (#5877711)
That '89 Rangers team hit 122 HR. About ten teams will double that total this year, and every team has passed that number. The Marlins are last with 124.

The Rangers had four players with double-digit HR (Sierra, Incaviglia, Buechele, and Franco). Every 2019 team has at least five already.
   38. DavidFoss Posted: September 09, 2019 at 10:44 AM (#5877717)
this rewards teams that don't even really use future great hitters, right?

Yeah, the caveat is that these aren't the 'best', just historical curiosities of when teams had a stockpile of young talent for one reason or another. It's harder to collect young talent who will play well in the future than it is to collect older talent who have already had great careers.

Of course, sometimes this is a plus on a teams scouting system that they collected all these young players in one year. And sometimes it is a minus if they traded guys away and accumulated all their talent for other teams.
   39. Davo Posted: September 09, 2019 at 10:44 AM (#5877718)
Wins
1976,BAL,AL,1156

This was a weird one!

Jim Palmer of course, but he was already 30. Who’s boosting it? Well....they gave a combined 38 games to:

Dennis Martinez (245 wins to go)
Mike Flanagan (167 wins to go)
Doyle Alexander (156 wins to go)
Scott McGregor (138 wins to go)
   40. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: September 09, 2019 at 11:02 AM (#5877733)
Well, among teams that played full seasons in real leagues, the 1969 Pilots are pretty nondescript.


Aaahhh, but Ball Four, though...
   41. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: September 09, 2019 at 11:12 AM (#5877738)
Strikeouts:

yearID,teamID,lgID,SO
1969,NYN,NL,14449
1971,NYN,NL,14404
1970,NYN,NL,13830
1968,NYN,NL,13784


I still miss Nolan Ryan.
   42. Booey Posted: September 09, 2019 at 11:45 AM (#5877750)
I agree with the above opinion that the this-year-and-future split is much more interesting.

HR:

yearID,teamID,lgID,HR
1989,TEX,AL,3009
1996,CLE,AL,2695
1995,CLE,AL,2632
1998,LAN,NL,2605
1996,ATL,NL,2560
1998,FLO,NL,2495
1997,CLE,AL,2489
1991,TEX,AL,2430
1994,SEA,AL,2373
1998,CLE,AL,2361



So this is the future HR's hit list, right? I'm guessing the 1995 Indians might be #1 for total career homers hit, since they'd get the entirety of Eddie Murray's (504) and Dave Winfield's (465) career totals, in addition to their own in prime superstars like Jim Thome (612), Manny Ramirez (555), and Albert Belle (381), plus the young guys just starting out like Jeromy Burnitz (315) and Brian Giles (287). That's 3119 HR's right there...
   43. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: September 09, 2019 at 12:36 PM (#5877759)

1994,SEA,AL,2373


This does not include two Mariners minor leaguers - Raul Ibanez and David Ortiz - or their 1st round pick that year - Jason Varitek.
   44. DavidFoss Posted: September 09, 2019 at 01:18 PM (#5877770)
So this is the future HR's hit list, right?

1996 was #1. I buried that in the text of post-29 because someone specifically asked about the 70s Red Sox who were down at 26th but were high on the list for their era, I guess I should post the table.

CAREER HR on roster (before *and* after)

yearID,teamID,lgID,HR
1996
,CLE,AL,4217
2013
,NYA,AL,4148
2005
,NYA,AL,4141
1995
,CLE,AL,4107
2012
,NYA,AL,4081
2008
,NYA,AL,4065
2006
,NYA,AL,4039
1997
,CLE,AL,3964
1998
,LAN,NL,3957
2004
,NYA,AL,3953 

   45. PreservedFish Posted: September 09, 2019 at 01:39 PM (#5877783)
1996,CLE,AL,4217
2013,NYA,AL,4148


This could come down to the wire. It's guys like Gardner, Cervelli, Nunez, Cano.
   46. Booey Posted: September 09, 2019 at 01:47 PM (#5877787)
#44 - D'oh! Missed that, sorry. That surprises me a little though, cuz the 1996 team loses Winfield's 465. They gain Jeff Kent's 377, but at a glance I can't see any other major acquisitions. Julio Franco (173), maybe?
   47. Booey Posted: September 09, 2019 at 01:56 PM (#5877789)
1996,CLE,AL,4217
2013,NYA,AL,4148


This could come down to the wire. It's guys like Gardner, Cervelli, Nunez, Cano.


The Yankees are already well ahead if you count all the homers Ichiro could have hit if he wanted to...

The Indians have more high end talent, with 3 of the top 4 (1996) or 4 of the top 5 (1995) homer guys between them (obviously A-Rod is 1st), but the Yankees have solid power up and down:

696 - Alex Rodriguez
412 - Alfonso Soriano
409 - Mark Teixeira
343 - Curtis Granderson
323 - Robinson Cano
298 - Mark Reynolds
270 - Vernon Wells
260 - Derek Jeter
213 - Travis Hafner
   48. Davo Posted: September 09, 2019 at 02:11 PM (#5877794)
1996,CLE,AL,4217
2013,NYA,AL,4148

This could come down to the wire. It's guys like Gardner, Cervelli, Nunez, Cano.

I was checking their transaction log that year. And two days before Opening Day the Yankees released Juan Rivera and his 132 career homers. If they’d just kept him a few days longer and given him an at bat, they’d have the record!
   49. Davo Posted: September 09, 2019 at 02:23 PM (#5877795)
Looking at modern teams, it strikes me that some recent iterations of the Angels are well-positioned to break these marks. With Pujols-Trout-Upton it’s pretty easy to see them at like 1800 right out the gate.

The 2018 team gets an extra 450 from Chris Young and Ian Kinsler....bah, they shoulda been more active on Jose Bautista and Matt Holliday, those guys we’re just SITTING there!

Oh well, just need Ohtani and Calhoun and some random rookie to all hit 400 a piece and they’ll be good.
   50. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: September 09, 2019 at 03:40 PM (#5877825)
I was curious so I looked them up; having a 19 year old Sammy Sosa and a 20 year old Juan Gonzalez will certainly boost you up a "future WAR" list. Plus Palmeiro (24), Kevin Brown (24), Ruben Sierra (23)...it's a pretty awesome collection of young talent.

There's a lot of depth there. Kenny Rogers (24) put up 51 WAR, Jamie Moyer (26) put up another 45, Wilson Alvarez (19) put up 25.

Heck, even 41-yo Charlie Hough and 42-yo Nolan Ryan combined for another 21 WAR!
   51. Ziggy is done with Dominican discotheques Posted: September 09, 2019 at 03:42 PM (#5877826)
If they’d just kept him a few days longer and given him an at bat, they’d have the record!


Oh, what is life but a series of regrets.
   52. GregD Posted: September 09, 2019 at 03:52 PM (#5877831)
There's a lot of depth there. Kenny Rogers (24) put up 51 WAR
I never remember that he got over 50 WAR!
   53. Rally Posted: September 09, 2019 at 04:50 PM (#5877855)
No Pudge on that team, he would be up 2 years later. He was in their system, age 17, in 1989.
   54. Cooper Nielson Posted: September 09, 2019 at 10:56 PM (#5877946)
I was curious so I looked them up; having a 19 year old Sammy Sosa and a 20 year old Juan Gonzalez will certainly boost you up a "future WAR" list. Plus Palmeiro (24), Kevin Brown (24), Ruben Sierra (23)...it's a pretty awesome collection of young talent. Even Dean Palmer played another 13 years. Pete Incaviglia was 25, I would have guessed he was 10 years older than Palmeiro or Sierra.

I remember Ruben Sierra being the biggest star on that team (2nd in AL MVP voting), but for the rest of his rather long career, he only compiled 6.1 more WAR (5.1 of that was in 1991). So he didn't contribute as much to this total as I expected.
   55. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: September 09, 2019 at 11:31 PM (#5877951)
And somehow Sierra managed to play into 2006 despite putting up like -3 WAR total from 1993 on.
   56. PreservedFish Posted: September 10, 2019 at 08:10 AM (#5877992)
Was Ruben Sierra the last hitter to lead a league in both RBI and Triples?
   57. Sweatpants Posted: September 10, 2019 at 09:20 AM (#5878014)
I didn't check every leader since Sierra, but I think you're right. Mike Trout and Curtis Granderson each came one triple short of accomplishing this, and last year Javier Baez led the NL in RBI and was second in triples.
   58. DavidFoss Posted: September 11, 2019 at 08:26 AM (#5878334)
Was Ruben Sierra the last hitter to lead a league in both RBI and Triples?

Yes

(a little late with the response)

name_common,yearID,lgID,3B,RBI
Deacon White
,1877,NL,11,49
Dan Brouthers
,1883,NL,17,97
Tip ONeill
,1887,AA,19,123
Sam Thompson
,1887,NL,23,166
Cy Seymour
,1905,NL,21,121
Ty Cobb
,1908,AL,20,108
Honus Wagner
,1908,NL,19,109
Sam Crawford
,1910,AL,19,120
Ty Cobb
,1911,AL,24,127
Sam Crawford
,1914,AL,26,104
Sam Crawford
,1915,AL,19,112
Hi Myers
,1919,NL,14,73
Rogers Hornsby
,1921,NL,18,126
Paul Waner
,1927,NL,18,131
Jim Bottomley
,1928,NL,20,136
Stan Musial
,1948,NL,18,131
Jim Rice
,1978,AL,15,139
Ruben Sierra
,1989,AL,14,119 


Baez-2018, Parker-1978, Santo-1964, Banks-1958, Mays-1955, Vernon-1953, Thomson-1952 are the guys who led in one and were runner-up in the other since 1950.

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogTwo injured MVPs is a major bummer for baseball
(3 - 2:31am, Sep 18)
Last: Lest we forget

NewsblogOT Soccer Thread - A New Season is Upon Baldrick
(811 - 2:26am, Sep 18)
Last: Jose is Absurdly Unemployed

NewsblogCarl Yastrzemski's Grandson Mike to Make Fenway Park Debut
(21 - 2:11am, Sep 18)
Last: Jose is Absurdly Unemployed

NewsblogThe bizarre brilliance of Derek Dietrich’s 2019 season
(6 - 1:38am, Sep 18)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogOMNICHATTER is full of great ideas!, for September 17, 2019
(107 - 1:06am, Sep 18)
Last: Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim

NewsblogOT - NBA thread (Playoffs through off-season)
(6742 - 1:05am, Sep 18)
Last: Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim

Gonfalon CubsApproaching the Finish Line
(44 - 12:49am, Sep 18)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogFelipe Vazquez Arrested
(28 - 12:34am, Sep 18)
Last: Jose is Absurdly Unemployed

NewsblogWhy the waterfront site is ideal for new Oakland A’s ballpark - SFChronicle.com
(3 - 11:47pm, Sep 17)
Last: A triple short of the cycle

NewsblogTigers lose 104th game, move closer to first overall pick
(46 - 11:38pm, Sep 17)
Last: A triple short of the cycle

NewsblogHail and farewell to football games played on baseball dirt
(79 - 11:37pm, Sep 17)
Last: Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams)

NewsblogNew bowl game at Fenway Park to match teams from ACC, AAC
(9 - 11:29pm, Sep 17)
Last: Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams)

NewsblogIchiro wins Seattle's heart again with moving speech ahead of walk-off win
(12 - 11:22pm, Sep 17)
Last: cardsfanboy

NewsblogMike Trout will undergo season-ending foot surgery this week | LA Times
(26 - 9:53pm, Sep 17)
Last: Rally

NewsblogMLB Power Rankings: Just how good are the Twins?
(13 - 9:04pm, Sep 17)
Last: ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick

Page rendered in 0.5894 seconds
46 querie(s) executed