Interesting piece from the Chicago community since we needed another Games thread.

Well, at least Bradley's more interesting than Francoeur.

From the comments:

[Bradley's agent] should get the Cubs to enforce their policies and fulfill their obligations under the law.

The poster doesn't say what he refers to by "the law," but it'd be interesting to see a Title VII hostile environment claim raised against a professional sports team (particularly where the source of the hostile environment is not fellow employees, but fans who use racial taunts)--I need to research whether any similar claims have been brought before. The Cub fan in me would hate to see it. The lawyer in me would find it all kinds of fascinating.

The poster doesn't say what he refers to by "the law," but it'd be interesting to see a Title VII hostile environment claim raised against a professional sports team (particularly where the source of the hostile environment is not fellow employees, but fans who use racial taunts)--I need to research whether any similar claims have been brought before. The Cub fan in me would hate to see it. The lawyer in me would find it all kinds of fascinating.

There's absolutely case law on point which says that an employer can be liable under Title VII for creating a hostile work environment, based on the failure of the employer to control the behavior of customers.

Whether it would apply in this case, of course, is a fact-specific question (and I'm not specifically familiar with seventh circuit law). Obviously there's an issue of how much the Cubs can do.

I think the onus is on the fans to speak up.

If some guy in my section was shouting racist slurs, I'd call over an usher immediately. I've got to figure most people would do the same.

My experiences in the Wrigley bleachers have involved plenty of obnoxious drunks, but they were pleasantly obnoxious. I didn't get a racist vibe. Small sample size though.

There's absolutely case law on point which says that an employer can be liable under Title VII for creating a hostile work environment, based on the failure of the employer to control the behavior of customers.

Well, yes. I'm just curious as to whether there's any precedent specifically in the sports context (where the customers are sports fans as opposed to, say, restaurant patrons). [The 3 minutes of research I've done since my last post hasn't turned anything up yet.]

Obviously, the player/fan : server/customer analogy holds; I just think it'd be interesting if, given that, no claims have been brought by players before now.

Whether it would apply in this case, of course, is a fact-specific question (and I'm not specifically familiar with seventh circuit law). Obviously there's an issue of how much the Cubs can do.

Right--the devil would be in the details of what the team was aware of and what they did in response.

That said, they can't hear/respond individually to everything that comes out of every fan's mouth, of course, but they can institute blanket policies aimed at curbing offensive behavior (say, not permitting the bleachers to operate as a free-for-all all-you-can-drink keg party--i.e., put more security personnel in place, set forth AND PUBLICIZE clearly defined standards for what sort of language [i.e., that which could create a hostile environment based on race, sex, national origin, etc.] will result in a crackdown, and limiting alcohol sales [yes, I know--blasphemy]). I can't say whether such measures would be effective at stopping racial taunts, but the Cubs' doing NOTHING once they're on notice could expose them to liability, it seems to me.

EDIT: I agree that the onus is largely on other fans to speak up, but that begs the question to a degree--one can argue that part of the reason WHY that's really the only enforcement mechanism that'd work is because of choices/omissions on the club's part (ill-defined standards, lax enforcement of those standards).

If some guy in my section was shouting racist slurs, I'd call over an usher immediately. I've got to figure most people would do the same.

And to be fair to the club: they've recently instituted a means of responding to offensive behavior that I like. Season ticket holders were emailed a number to which texts of offensive fan conduct can be sent--you send a report, indicate location, etc., and security comes and checks it out. That way, you can report misconduct without having to leave your seat, and without subjecting yourself to reprisal by the offenders. A good first step.

My experiences in the Wrigley bleachers have involved plenty of obnoxious drunks, but they were pleasantly obnoxious. I didn't get a racist vibe. Small sample size though.

I've been to hundreds of games at Wrigley, but none of them in the bleachers, so I can't speak to what goes on there, but I frankly don't think there's much in the way of ############# and worse (including outright racist conduct) that's beneath a lot of the core bleacher crowd. I can't recall ever hearing a racial slur from fans in my section. Then again, I'm far enough away that slurs from my section probably wouldn't, by themselves, create a hostile work environment for players anyway(since they couldn't be heard from the field).

EDIT: So "d-baggery" is nannied. If I weren't concerned with creating a hostile work environment for the nanny based on sex, I'd tell her what I really think.

I can't speak to the Chicago experience, but I've never heard anyone yell a racist slur at a Jays game, and I've sat all over the stadium.

Derogatory terms based around sexual orientation, on the other hand, make the occasional unexpected appearance.

I can't speak to the Chicago experience, but I've never heard anyone yell a racist slur at a Jays game, and I've sat all over the stadium.

Which raises the interesting wrinkle of whether a US club would have any obligation to stop a hostile environment resulting from conduct that occurs in Toronto. Heh. Hypos are fun.

Ushers from the Tri-Lam national office should solve this problem.

I've not heard a racial slur in a fair number of games at Fenway and Yankee Stadium -- and I've sat all over. Of course, I can't speak to Chicago. It's disappointing that this apparently goes on there.

Maybe winning might help?

I've heard the taunts at Chicago and Shea............and it was minimal - not like the entire crowd joined in, but still crosses the line.

As for asking ushers, I haven't been to Wrigley in a long time but I remember thinking the ushers there were old enough to have witnessed the last Cubs championship.

I wouldn't speak to an usher about anything at Yankee Stadium. They are the nastiest gestapo-like sob's I've ever encountered at a (24 so far) ballpark.

Which raises the interesting wrinkle of whether a US club would have any obligation to stop a hostile environment resulting from conduct that occurs in Toronto.

Companies ask their employees to work in foreign countries all the time. I would think this scenario would have arisen already, although I would have no idea how to handle this.

I've been to hundreds of games at Wrigley Field. While I've never heard a racial slur shouted at a player, or do I ever expect to, there is certainly a racial undercurrent to the fans attitudes about certain players. Always under one's breath, "knowhaddimean" kind of stuff. An older guy who used to sit next to my boss's seats in the club boxes was like that. I was sitting there one day when Jacques Jones was on the team. Jones made one of his many bonehead plays, and the guy says, "I call him a DFN. That's just what I used to call Dunston." He didn't mean "darling friendly neighbor", and certainly no players could have heard him, but it wouldn't surprise me if a guy like Bradley, whose radar seems tuned to stuff like that, might pick up a bit of a vibe.

EDIT: So "douchebaggery" is nannied.

It is? Not if you write with a pure heart. And haven't the Cubs set up a confession booth next to the Vienna Sausage stand?

Get rid of clubhouse cancers like Milton Bradley who destroy team chemistry and don't bother to live up to their potential. There's a reason why this guy has been on seven teams in nine years: teams think they can change this guy but find out they can't.
Let's also remember in this era of Obama/Sotomayor/Frank era of paranoia and demonizing of anyone who points out their stupidity, that Ernie Banks is "Mr Cub".

You must all ways write with a pure heart Al and that is why the Nanny lets me call people Cox Uecker also Admiral Numnutz and Sofa King Stupid and Douchebag and Steve Garvey.

Of course, I can't speak to Chicago. It's disappointing that this apparently goes on there.

Concur, especially since it's completely inconsistent with the Chicagoans I know and deal with daily.

Companies ask their employees to work in foreign countries all the time. I would think this scenario would have arisen already, although I would have no idea how to handle this.

Well, as a practical matter, a guy getting called a racist name in Toronto during the course of a few games out of a 162-game schedule probably wouldn't be enough to make the harassment sufficiently "severe and pervasive," given the context of his entire employment, to create a hostile work environment, but it's interesting to speculate about.

You must all ways write with a pure heart Al and that is why the Nanny lets me call people Cox Uecker also Admiral Numnutz and Sofa King Stupid and Douchebaggery and Steve Garvey.

Jack, between you and me I think we could whip out a health care bill that even Hitler and Junior de Mint couldn't derail. They wouldn't dare.

Season ticket holders were emailed a number to which texts of offensive fan conduct can be sent

They use this in the NFL and in one town, I think Cleveland, they had an issue because so many fans were texting in complaints about the teams GM.

I have been to hundreds and hundreds of games at the major league level and have only once heard racist remarks-directed towards Rennie Stennett when he was a Giant. I have heard them several times in minor league games. The last time was in Bakersfield and the people that did it, there were several in the group, spent the rest of their time discussing which of their friends/relatives were in jail due to being caught selling meth, beating their spouse, and in one case, assaulting a police officer. Probably the wort park, and night at a park, I have ever spent.

What the hell were you doing in Bakersfield, AKA The Colony?

I was doing a partial tour of Calif minor league parks. My favorite was Visalia, where if you bought the VIP seats, (for about $5 at the time) and ordered a hamburger they brought the Weber over next to you and cooked it to your specifications. Plus the cheap motel we stayed at had an attached Chinese restaurant that turned into a country western dance hall at night. How could you beat that?

How could you beat that?

You mean this rhetorically, right?

Was Salinas still in the California League then? You could have seen the giant Claes Oldenberg sculpture and had a burger at Roy's. That's about it, though.

I've never been to Bakersfield, but it seems to be almost a euphemism for "hellhole." Care to give me the quick-n-dirty assessment of the place?

My favorite was Visalia, where if you bought the VIP seats, (for about $5 at the time) and ordered a hamburger they brought the Weber over next to you and cooked it to your specifications. Plus the cheap motel we stayed at had an attached Chinese restaurant that turned into a country western dance hall at night. How could you beat that?

After reading this description, I already know that my wife is going to hate what I suggest for our next anniversary.

I've never been to Bakersfield, but it seems to be almost a euphemism for "hellhole." Care to give me the quick-n-dirty assessment of the place?

Dusty, hot, strip malls, the kind of bars Eddie Murphy would have to smooth talk his way out of unless he wanted to be beaten to death with a tire iron...

the kind of bars Eddie Murphy would have to smooth talk his way out of unless he wanted to be beaten to death with a tire iron...

Sounds a lot like The Sports Bistro, which was a bar in my area which I hope is gone. Fluorescent lighting, card tables and folding chairs, and four extremely burly drunks huddled around the bar - one of whom was nice enough to come over to our table in order to loudly announce his bathroom-oriented intentions.

Bakersfield is a cow town and smells like it. Huge Country dance halls and a big Evangelical population. It was 107 at 7 pm at opening pitch in a park not fit for a high school team. I believe that they have fixed up the park now, however. Then it still had the names of a buch of Dodgers that had played there in the minors, but was I believe a Giants farm team that year. I don't think Salinas had a team at the time but a buddy of mine saw them once play the SJ Bees and get in a fight with themselves during the game. Apparently there was a lot of inter-team rivalry going on (I think that they had an exchange program with a Japanese team) and something triggered it during the game. He said that it was the funniest thing he had ever seen as the SJ players had no idea what to do.

Apparently there was a lot of inter-team rivalry going on (I think that they had an exchange program with a Japanese team)

Ah yes! That was when Salinas was an indy team and they were trying to serve as a minor league team for the Japanese. They had 6 or 7 Japanese minor league players that year.

edit: I think it was Salinas or San Jose that one year had a few ex-major leaguers famous for their drug problems. Ken Reitz was one of the players. My memory is hazy on this.

My experiences in the Wrigley bleachers have involved plenty of obnoxious drunks, but they were pleasantly obnoxious.

Because it doesn't happen. Would someone turn to his buddy and maybe whisper some racist slur? Yeah, I'm sure that happens all the time. WOuld someone ever yell a racist taunt at a black player on the field? Never. It doesn't happen at Wrigley, it doesn't happen at the Cell, it doesn't happen anywhere. Not anymore.

Milton Bradley is, quite simply, making #### up.

Yep, that was San Jose and not only was Ken Reitz one of them, he was living at the Stadium for part of the time. I once saw he beat out a infield chopper in SF and thought that he was the slowest ball player I had ever seen.

WOuld someone ever yell a racist taunt at a black player on the field? Never. It doesn't happen at Wrigley, it doesn't happen at the Cell, it doesn't happen anywhere. Not anymore.

It's very possible Milton thinks "You suck!" is a racial taunt. I mean, he's not going to find a more tolerant venue than Oakland to play and even that didn't work out for him.

Because it doesn't happen. Would someone turn to his buddy and maybe whisper some racist slur? Yeah, I'm sure that happens all the time. WOuld someone ever yell a racist taunt at a black player on the field? Never. It doesn't happen at Wrigley, it doesn't happen at the Cell, it doesn't happen anywhere. Not anymore.

Milton Bradley is, quite simply, making #### up.

At the last Jays game I was at, a guy sitting two seats down from me screamed "Homo!" at JD Drew. This was in the middle of an afternoon game, in the $40 seats, and early enough that he didn't yet have time to get himself hammered.

I have no doubt that there are people who attend baseball games (and not restricted to Chicago) who have no problem at all with heaving out racist rhetoric in public places.

EDIT: Additionally, Bradley is not the first player to complain about hearing that sort of thing in Chicago. Jaques Jones made similar statements, and I believe that Hawkins implied something similar.

This was from zonk (no Bradley fan) from last week's thread. Seems from this that Milton wasn't just imagining racially tinged remarks.


But I've been to 11 games this year, 4 of them with seats either down the RF line or in the RF bleachers, including the last of the Minny series (i.e., 2 games after Milton tossed a ball into the stands after the second out).

I think 'Milton the monkey' constitutes a racial taunt - this was one charming little chant an inebriated fellow came up with at the Minny game (silenced by security after I and others in the section complained to an usher... though a touchy-feely liberal by trade, I would have much preferred watching him be dragged out by his heels, his head banging on each step as he was exited).

At a late July game against the Astros, sitting pretty far up the RF bleachers, I'm fairly sure I heard ####### - prefaced the usual adjectives - being hurled onto the field from further down the bleachers. I'm by no means certain, given the noise of the crowd, but it was close enough for me and a guy sitting in the row behind me to ask each other if we both thought we heard the same thing.

#34. Yeah, those would probably get my goat, too. And Milton is on the home team!

At the last Jays game I was at, a guy sitting two seats down from me screamed "Homo!" at JD Drew. This was in the middle of an afternoon game, in the $40 seats, and early enough that he didn't yet have time to get himself hammered.

Homo isn't a racial slur. Unfortunately, it's still not a big deal in society to use homophobic slurs.

This was from zonk (no Bradley fan) from last week's thread. Seems from this that Milton wasn't just imagining racially tinged remarks.

That's the first I've heard. I've never personally heard it and I've heard from dozens of people who have never heard it. When asked about it, Cubs security said they have had no complaints about racial slurs.

Derogatory terms based around sexual orientation, on the other hand, make the occasional unexpected appearance.

I can't help it, I know that that deep down Prince Fielder is a phagophile.

When asked about it, Cubs security said they have had no complaints about racial slurs.

And if you were a Cubs employee, how would you answer?

And if you were a Cubs employee, how would you answer?

Knowing Milton Bradley's history, are you surprised that he's making allegations? And truthfully, I don't think he's ever actually SAID there were racial taunts directed against him, and when asked to clarify, he gave a sarcastic response about racism.

I don't think Bradley is a victim of anything other than Milton Bradley.

The real lunatic here is Jim Hendry, who brought the most sensitive player in the league into an already heated situation and expected nothing to happen.

Well, as a practical matter, a guy getting called a racist name in Toronto during the course of a few games out of a 162-game schedule probably wouldn't be enough to make the harassment sufficiently "severe and pervasive," given the context of his entire employment, to create a hostile work environment, but it's interesting to speculate about.

Title VII does apply to U.S. employers overseas, except where doing so would conflict with the local law, but what difference would it make in this case, given that a visiting team has no ability to control Torontonian fans anyway?

Given that racial slurs are directed at Derrek Lee, I have no reason to believe Bradley is making this up.

What should Cubs do to provide hate-free work environment?

Hire angels instead of human beings?

-- MWE

2. Cubs manager Lou Piniella shows he's not supportive of Bradley. He has not pressed the organization to take action.

So, it seems reasonable to infer Piniella has communicated to Bradley he's not going to support Bradley with respect to racial taunting from the bleachers.

Uh, no. Not at all. Not only do I question the premise (what precisely is meant by "he's not supportive of Bradley" what is the basis for it?), but even if the premise is true in some context, it certainly doesn't lead to the inference put forth.

Given that racial slurs are directed at Derrek Lee, I have no reason to believe Bradley is making this up.

Derrek Lee said in an article in the Tribune that he never had any racial taunts directed at him. He said he "heard" of other players who said they had taunts directed at them.

And on that note, I don't think Bradley has said there were racial slurs thrown at him either.

Title VII does apply to U.S. employers overseas, except where doing so would conflict with the local law, but what difference would it make in this case, given that a visiting team has no ability to control Torontonian fans anyway?

No, but they'd have the ability to control other variables (whether the player was in the lineup, e.g.). You're of course correct that the odds of a successful Title VII suit being brought based on this would be vanishingly small.

Dusty, hot, strip malls, the kind of bars Eddie Murphy would have to smooth talk his way out of unless he wanted to be beaten to death with a tire iron...

Bakersfield is essentially Odessa, Texas, with smog, gangs and Valley Fever.

In one of my favorite books of all time, Up and Down California by William Brewer, the state botanist who traveled and explored the state in the 1860s, he describes the desolate, hellish monotony of traveling through the San Joaquin Valley. Reading it, I thought to myself how it hasn't changed a bit. You can read it here.

Chalk me up as someone who has never heard a racial slur in Wrigley Field, and who has some doubt about the pervasiveness of the problem. The worst I've heard is someone call Mike Marshall a "penis leech," which actually made him laugh.

Buck Owen's Crystal Palace is in Bakersfield, which is about the only reason my family would go there when we were younger. Last time I drove to San Francisco from LA, I was amazed that the housing developments stretch all the way to Bakersfield. Who knew everyone wanted to live near Grapevine?

I've sat in the bleachers for a lot of Cubs games the past 2 years, and while there are a ton of huge idiots yelling all sorts of stupid sh*t, I've never heard anything racial. I've been pulling for Bradley for years, but I have to say: it's kind of hard to imagine that it occurs with any sort of frequency.

As for Hendry being foolish for bringing him in: uh, yeah. You could have written these "Bradley Alleges Racism" stories the day he signed.

Hire Angels? Are you suggesting they get rid of Bradley and sign Vlad or Abreu in the offseason?

The solution seems simple. You have fans making loud racist taunts, have security throw them out of the game. I've seen fans in Oriole park thrown outfor obnoxious behavior, which was not racist but offensive nonetheless. It was ridiculous to say the least. While they were heckling me for wearing an Angels cap and my favorite visiting team, they reserved the worst for their own player. Nick Mar-Cake-Ass.

I think it was Salinas or San Jose that one year had a few ex-major leaguers famous for their drug problems.

The San Jose Bad Nose Bees!

Not as good as Neal Karlen's Rolling Stone article, but I can't find that online.

Back on topic, I saw a bunch of guys get booted from Comiskey for yelling "Smoke those Jays!" at this game. They were drunk but certainly not offensive.