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Tuesday, December 05, 2017

Where The Former Braves Prospects Are Signing | BaseballAmerica.com

Maitan signs with the Angels.

Kevin Maitan, ss – Angels, $2.2 million (Braves bonus: $4.25 million)

 

Jim Furtado Posted: December 05, 2017 at 03:06 PM | 25 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: braves, prospects

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   1. asinwreck Posted: December 05, 2017 at 05:52 PM (#5586830)
Jerry Crasnick feature on Coppolella's apology includes this passage:
Coppolella's inclusion was particularly shocking because of the lines he didn't cross. He's never been accused of taking kickbacks, betting on the game or taking part in financial malfeasance for personal gain. It appears to be more a case of chronic rules violations -- a pattern of misbehavior that sent up alarm bells and prompted complaints from industry competitors....

When MLB investigators began their probe, Coppolella compounded his sins by clamming up or denying the accusations. Manfred made his personal displeasure clear when he told Mike Golic, "While the Braves were completely cooperative in the investigative process, I can't say the same for John."
   2. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: December 05, 2017 at 08:13 PM (#5586898)
Coppolella took the fall for MLB's general lawlessness down there.
   3. madvillain Posted: December 05, 2017 at 08:16 PM (#5586901)
Coppolella took the fall for MLB's general lawlessness down there.


Obviously MLB can do whatever it wants to police its sport but it seems like their goal in this case wasn't to clean up the Latin operations in any meaningful way but to embarrass the Braves -- and Coppolella specifically. I bet Coppolella has a story to tell and I can't wait to hear it.
   4. dlf Posted: December 05, 2017 at 08:36 PM (#5586912)
Obviously MLB can do whatever it wants to police its sport but it seems like their goal in this case wasn't to clean up the Latin operations in any meaningful way but to embarrass the Braves -- and Coppolella specifically.


I think they want to keep making a point of, to use Rickey's phrase the "general lawlessness down there" as a further piece of leverage to get the various Latin American countries to be included in the draft so as to keep more money in owner pockets and less in players (and in the case of "down there" the various middle men who also pocket coin). The Braves may have been most egregious violators (I have no idea and neither do any of you) but to a large degree they are pawns between MLB and MLBPA.
   5. madvillain Posted: December 05, 2017 at 08:40 PM (#5586915)
Good point dlf.
   6. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: December 05, 2017 at 08:49 PM (#5586918)
Yes. MLB's end game here is instituting a draft for international players. The current system has already reduced that "Japanese Babe Ruth" kid's immediate earnings by 30 million dollars or more, due to the "signing bonus cap." But they want a draft. They want to treat 14 year olds from El Salvador the same way they treat high school kids from Florida. Free labor so the billionaires keep all the money, all the time.

The Braves saga is entirely about slapping an organization around hard to show other people that MLB is serious about not giving the players money.
   7. cardsfanboy Posted: December 05, 2017 at 10:34 PM (#5586970)
They want to treat 14 year olds from El Salvador the same way they treat high school kids from Florida. Free labor so the billionaires keep all the money, all the time.


I'm not seeing a problem with any of that. Not a fan of the billionaires, but don't see any reason to give a 14 year old enough money to retire on, while not actually having them prove themselves actually capable of being a major league player. I can get behind arguments against arbitration or other crap once the player had proven themselves at the major league level, but this silliness that basically says we should give a Harvard Graduate 700k a year because he graduated Harvard is just stupid. (using a college analogy as a draft analogy)

Considering the failure rate of drafted players, I just don't get people getting all up in arms about signing bonus's, when they should be more focused on the actual money for actual major leaguers...
   8. Khrushin it bro Posted: December 05, 2017 at 11:16 PM (#5586995)
I've always thought that if you want to help young players then give incentives for MLB playing time.
   9. . . . . . . . . . . Posted: December 05, 2017 at 11:38 PM (#5587007)
I’ll tell you what, I’d rather pay a random Harvard graduate $700K than an random flagship state school grad $70K.
   10. madvillain Posted: December 05, 2017 at 11:58 PM (#5587010)
but don't see any reason to give a 14 year old enough money to retire on, while not actually having them prove themselves actually capable of being a major league player.


Hey, the NCAA is right there with you!
   11. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: December 06, 2017 at 01:20 AM (#5587018)
The Braves saga is entirely about slapping an organization around hard to show other people that MLB is serious about not giving the players money


I tried to want everyone that Budshovism was anti-player and punished success, but I guess you needed to wait until it was your ox being gored. Better late than never I suppose.
   12. flournoy Posted: December 06, 2017 at 04:10 AM (#5587023)
I don't see any reason to give a 14 year old enough money to retire on, while not actually having them prove themselves actually capable of being a major league player. [...] this silliness that basically says we should give a Harvard Graduate 700k a year because he graduated Harvard is just stupid.


Is someone asking you to spend your money on these guys? In both cases, the organizations signing these contracts stand to lose a lot of money if they don't work out, so I think it's safe to say that they have reason to believe their decisions ultimately lead to financial success. If not, then they won't be around much longer to continue making those mistakes. The fact that they continue to operate seems to indicate that it's working.
   13. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 06, 2017 at 09:12 AM (#5587074)
I’ll tell you what, I’d rather pay a random Harvard graduate $700K than an random flagship state school grad $70K.

Well that's insane. You might get $50K worth of work out of the state school grad for $70K, and $100K worth of work from the Harvard grad.

I'd rather overpay an average perfromer by 30%, than ocverpay a star by 700%.
   14. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: December 06, 2017 at 09:24 AM (#5587083)
I don't see any reason to give a 14 year old enough money to retire on


I think the workers who actually create the product that generates the revenue should be paid for their work. I guess I'm a communist or something.
   15. Rally Posted: December 06, 2017 at 09:25 AM (#5587085)
but don't see any reason to give a 14 year old enough money to retire on, while not actually having them prove themselves actually capable of being a major league player.


Well, it's not quite that bad. Players have to be 16 to sign, and 17 to play in minor league games. I would be happy to see that changed to either A) minimum age 18 or B) player has graduated high school and apply that rule to everyone.

Free labor so the billionaires keep all the money, all the time.


I don't know if an international draft would go any further than where we already are in that regard. They have already changed the rules that allowed someone like Moncada to get paid. Right now average draft pool is about 8 million, varying by where a team picks, and average international pool is about 5 million.

If they went to a draft and made the whole pool average 13 million it might help the international players, might hurt them, or be neutral. Just depends on how their talent is perceived relative to the domestic players, and that will fluctuate every year.

Of course MLB would love to make it an international draft and keep the bonus limit at 8 million, we'll see how much the union cares about fighting that.

   16. Rennie's Tenet Posted: December 06, 2017 at 09:54 AM (#5587105)
Korean shortstop Ji-hwan Bae isn't listed in the article. Is he in a different category than these players?
   17. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: December 06, 2017 at 11:17 AM (#5587201)
Pretty sure they lost Bae as well.
   18. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: December 06, 2017 at 11:18 AM (#5587204)
we'll see how much the union cares about fighting that.


I'm going to guess a union of millionaires will not find a lot of concern for poor kids in South America who are hoping to one day take their jobs.
   19. PreservedFish Posted: December 06, 2017 at 01:07 PM (#5587360)
You might get $50K worth of work out of the state school grad for $70K, and $100K worth of work from the Harvard grad.


At least 50% of .......'s comments on this board are, in one way or another, endorsements of the general idea of elitism.
   20. PreservedFish Posted: December 06, 2017 at 01:09 PM (#5587366)
Also, Rickey!'s commentary on this whole thing as it has emerged has been hilarious.
   21. QLE Posted: December 06, 2017 at 01:52 PM (#5587445)
#13- There's another good reason why that's a bad idea:

I'm in a field where there has been a preference for hiring elite university alums at the expense of their public peers. What that field has gotten hasn't been better performance, but the exact opposite- the Ivy alumni, having gotten the safe jobs for life, have a bad tendency to put in as little as they can get away with. As a result, certain performance metrics have gotten far worse now than they were in past generations, when this bias wasn't as severe.

Fortunately, this isn't as severe an issue with the playing side of baseball- there seems to be a better understanding in the draft that where players come from doesn't necessarily mean anything, and some of the mechanisms that are present in my field (self-replication, basically) are moot, as the players aren't the ones doing the hiring.
   22. Rally Posted: December 06, 2017 at 02:35 PM (#5587499)
I'm going to guess a union of millionaires will not find a lot of concern for poor kids in South America who are hoping to one day take their jobs.


Yeah, the amateurs are not union members so the MLBPA isn't going to go out on a limb for them. But I think they would at least be against the idea of owners cutting costs in an environment of yearly record-setting revenues. I mean, they agreed to the current system but if the owners say let's cut the 8 million draft pool down to 4 million, I have a hard time imagining them just saying OK.
   23. Walt Davis Posted: December 06, 2017 at 03:18 PM (#5587539)
The MLBPA's main concern is that any reduction in amateur spending be matched by an increase in spending on union members. Since the union has no method to enforce such a thing, it's not clear why they've been so amenable in the past.

cfb, those of us who care about the kids, care about them primarily from a fairness standpoint. Obviously MLB teams think it's more than worthwhile to give these kids $1-3 M -- heck, it's pretty clear they'd be willing to give some of them much more in an open market. If MLB thinks it's reasonable to spread $15 M among 50 players under the assumption that enough of them will pay off, why should I care very much about which specific kids get big paydays, when they get their big paydays and why should I be blase when MLB wants to reduce their pay-outs to $10 M? If you wanted to propose a convoluted system where most of that $15 M was held in a trust for 6 years then doled out by an independent arbiter based on how well that year's signees progressed -- OK, that might be a "fairer" system (although the injured kids get screwed).

Beyond that, I have the same problem the union has -- even if I think it is more "fair" that the money end up in the pockets of ML players/union members than unproven kids, I have no way of knowing that's actually happening and strongly suspect most of that money is ending up in the pockets of team owners ... or possibly in the pocket of the assistant quality assurance coach (whom I have nothing against personally but admin bloat is really out of control).

On Harvard vs. state grads, I'm more sympathetic to #21, but I assume the analogy was not about paying a Harvard grad $700,000 per year rather than the state grad $70,000 ... it was paying the Harvard grad a $700 k bonus to retain his rights for several years. So to use Snapper's numbers, it would be more like $700 K + $70 K per year for 6 years = $1.12 M for 6 years of the Harvard grad vs. $420 K for 6 years of the state grad (or perhaps more realistically in this universe, $620 cuz even the best state grad is gonna get some kind of bonus). So you get $600,000 of work out of the Harvard grad for $1.12 M -- not a great deal -- or $300,000 worth of work out of the state grad for $420-620 K -- not a great deal. Now you get 3 years of arb control on the Harvard grad while the state grad probably didn't make the majors or is AAAA bench player. Anyway, at worst, we're talking about the Harvard grad needing to be 2-3 times better than the state grad, not 7.

Or, as does sometimes happen (at least in other countries), "we'll pay for med school if you agree to go work in some remote area of our choosing for the first X years."
   24. Rally Posted: December 06, 2017 at 03:28 PM (#5587551)
Or, as does sometimes happen (at least in other countries), "we'll pay for med school if you agree to go work in some remote area of our choosing for the first X years."


It happens in this country, or at least on TV. That was the whole idea behind the show Northern Exposure.
   25. Der-K: downgraded to lurker Posted: December 08, 2017 at 03:04 PM (#5588928)
twins to get 2b yunior severino for 2.5m. he's the most polished hitter of the guys the braves lost (maitan has a higher ceiling)...

also guillermo zuniga to LAD for 205k, but he's just a guy.

5 of ba's top 6 ex-braves prospects have now been signed (ji-hwan bae, a shortstop, is the other).

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