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Monday, February 18, 2013

Which sport reigns supreme in each major league city? - Hardball Talk

Three of the more interesting cases:

Philadelphia: I really don’t know. All sports, to be sure. But it may very well be a baseball town more. There are no shortage of Philly people here, so you tell me. Gun to my head I say the Phillies and Eagels are close, but I don’t know if that’s been the case for all that long a time.

...

Minneapolis: I assume the Vikings. Gleeman should weigh in, though. Youth hockey may trump it all.

Milwaukee: It’s over 100 miles to Green Bay, but I bet it’s still more Packers than Brewers. If you disqualify the Packers for distance it’s the Brewers by default. Still a great baseball town, though. It’s not the Brewers fault that people go Packers crazy.

still hunting for a halo-red october (in Delphi) Posted: February 18, 2013 at 09:07 PM | 176 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   101. WillYoung Posted: February 19, 2013 at 03:03 PM (#4371969)
Oh, and for D.C. cuisine -- the half-smoke, of course, direct from Ben's Chili Bowl (U Street and Nationals Park).


Two weeks ago, for the first time since 2007, I had my favorite meal in the world: chili cheese halfsmoke, chili cheese fries and a banana milkshake.
   102. Flynn Posted: February 19, 2013 at 03:16 PM (#4371980)
If Montreal still had a team, their dish of choice would unquestionably be a smoked meat sandwich.
   103. Flynn Posted: February 19, 2013 at 03:20 PM (#4371984)
Baseball's pretty lucky. There's not many markets where baseball isn't number one or with a realistic chance to be number one with a successful run - the exceptions are places like Toronto, where the 2nd place Jays drew 4 million for 3 years in a row in the early 90s, or places like Miami which have a horribly mismanaged franchise.

By comparison, there's several hockey teams that could win 3-4 Cups in a row and never be more than an afterthought in their local area, or basketball teams that are two losing seasons away from thousands of empty seats in their arena.
   104. SoSH U at work Posted: February 19, 2013 at 03:27 PM (#4371989)
Baseball's pretty lucky. There's not many markets where baseball isn't number one or with a realistic chance to be number one with a successful run - the exceptions are places like Toronto, where the 2nd place Jays drew 4 million for 3 years in a row in the early 90s, or places like Miami which have a horribly mismanaged franchise.


And basebal is the only sport that doesn't have a single market to itself. Every other sport has at least two cities it doesn't share with another member of the Big 4.
   105. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 19, 2013 at 03:34 PM (#4371992)
Every other sport has at least two cities it doesn't share with another member of the Big 4.


I'm blanking on the NFL. Jacksonville and.....? I don't think I'd count Green Bay.
   106. Answer Guy Posted: February 19, 2013 at 03:34 PM (#4371993)
Miami...what a farce. Part of it is a relatively small native population. But still, it's something like the 12th biggest media market in the country. And populated by: Cubans, who love baseball; New York/New England retirees, who tend to love baseball; and large numbers of other Caribbean-area types, many of whom also love baseball.

Apart from Loria, another big problem is that South Florida isn't a great place to spend lots of time outdoors during the summer, unless perhaps you're right next to the ocean.
   107. JJ1986 Posted: February 19, 2013 at 03:39 PM (#4371996)
I'm blanking on the NFL. Jacksonville and.....? I don't think I'd count Green Bay.


Charlotte? They sort of have a basketball team, but no one cares about them.
   108. SoSH U at work Posted: February 19, 2013 at 03:40 PM (#4371998)
I'm blanking on the NFL. Jacksonville and.....? I don't think I'd count Green Bay.


If you don't count Green Bay, it's one. But is there any definition of market that would place Green Bay in Milwaukee's?
   109. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: February 19, 2013 at 03:50 PM (#4372002)
But the rest of your posts just illustrates the weakness of Atlanta food. Chili dogs; sure, the Varsity is famous, but half a dozen mid-tier US cities think of chili dogs / coneys as their local speciality. Is there any special feature of the Varsity dog compared to, say, a Detroit coney?


Style and flare from the order? Is there anything structurally special about a NYC bagel? Not really. Just the idea that NYC does bagels better than elsewhere.
   110. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: February 19, 2013 at 03:51 PM (#4372004)
But is there any definition of market that would place Green Bay in Milwaukee's?


All of Wisconsin looks the same to us.
   111. Flynn Posted: February 19, 2013 at 04:03 PM (#4372013)
But is there any definition of market that would place Green Bay in Milwaukee's?


The Packers played three or four regular season games a year in Milwaukee for years and those fans are still season ticket holders through the Packers Gold package.

I'd guess that Green Bay people are inclined to root for the Brewers and maybe the Bucks if they care about hoops. Milwaukee's definitely inclined to root for the Packers - IMO they function as the de facto Milwaukee market team. I'm not sure the Packers are still in Green Bay if they had to compete with a Milwaukee Barons NFL team.
   112. Flynn Posted: February 19, 2013 at 04:06 PM (#4372019)

Style and flare from the order? Is there anything structurally special about a NYC bagel? Not really. Just the idea that NYC does bagels better than elsewhere.


They're enormous. Much bigger than Montreal or London bagels. Take that for what you will.
   113. SoSH U at work Posted: February 19, 2013 at 04:15 PM (#4372036)
The Packers played three or four regular season games a year in Milwaukee for years and those fans are still season ticket holders through the Packers Gold package.

I'd guess that Green Bay people are inclined to root for the Brewers and maybe the Bucks if they care about hoops. Milwaukee's definitely inclined to root for the Packers - IMO they function as the de facto Milwaukee market team. I'm not sure the Packers are still in Green Bay if they had to compete with a Milwaukee Barons NFL team.


I wouldn't deny any of that. But the same can be said of poeple from Portland, Maine about the Red Sox or Salt Lake City and the Broncos. Just because a particular area identifies with a sports team doesn't place that city in that market.

But if it helps, how about this: Baseball is the only sport that doesn't have a Metropolitan Statistical Area all to itself. All the other leagues have at least two teams that fit that profile.

   114. jmurph Posted: February 19, 2013 at 04:22 PM (#4372044)
I realize LA is known for many other things (food trucks, various Asian delicacies, etc.), but I find the mom & pop doughnut shops at every corner strip mall to be an awesome part of LA. Seattle has a bit of that, too.
   115. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: February 19, 2013 at 04:30 PM (#4372050)
The NFL considers Milwaukee a Green Bay home market (for purposes of TV blackout rules), which makes sense particularly given the decades long run as a home venue for 3 regular season games. Milwaukee frequently finishes extremely high in NFL metered markets for Nielsen. The flagship AM broadcast for the Packers is a Milwaukee radio station (WTMJ), it is by any sensible definition, in the Green Bay Packers market, even if not part of the 'MSA' as defined by U.S. OMB. When there are conflicts between Packers and Brewers games on WTMJ, I can assure you it is the Brewers that get shoved down the dial to another station, not the Packers.
   116. SoSH U at work Posted: February 19, 2013 at 04:35 PM (#4372061)
The NFL considers Milwaukee a Green Bay home market (for purposes of TV blackout rules), which makes sense particularly given the decades long run as a home venue for 3 regular season games. Milwaukee frequently finishes extremely high in NFL metered markets for Nielsen. The flagship AM broadcast for the Packers is a Milwaukee radio station (WTMJ), it is by any sensible definition, in the Green Bay Packers market, even if not part of the 'MSA' as defined by U.S. OMB. When there are conflicts between Packers and Brewers games on WTMJ, I can assure you it is the Brewers that get shoved down the dial to another station, not the Packers.


Nevermind. It was just an observation that every MLB team actually shares a city with another major pro sports franchise (something that isn't true of the other three leagues), not the absurd idea that Milwaukee didn't have an NFL team to root for.
   117. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: February 19, 2013 at 04:36 PM (#4372066)
I realize LA is known for many other things


Take it to the McCready/Celebrity Rehab thread.
   118. vortex of dissipation Posted: February 19, 2013 at 04:44 PM (#4372078)
Baltimore - crab cakes, Boston - chowdah, New York - bagels, Tampa Bay - the Early Bird special, Toronto - moose, Chicago - wind, Cleveland - regret, Detroit - bullets, Kansas City - barbecue, Minneapolis - lutefisk, Dallas - beef, Houston - more beef, Los Angeles - self-satisfaction, Oakland - can't afford food, Seattle - coffee, Atlanta - grits, Miami - mojitos, Philly - cheesesteak, Washington - pork, Cincinnati - chili, Milwaukee - cheese, Pittsburgh - steel, St. Louis - bad beer, Denver - weed, Phoenix - dust, San Diego - not a real place, San Francisco - Rice-a-Roni


Coffee is a beverage, though, not a food. If you want a local food for Seattle, it would probably be salmon, although if you live in Seattle, you'd be hard pressed not to name teriyaki.
   119. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: February 19, 2013 at 04:47 PM (#4372082)
Oh man, Montreal smoked meat.

You know, the Varsity chili dog isn't even all that good.
As for Taqueria del Sol, that's a chain, albeit one started in Atlanta... one opened not that far from me (that I plan on trying soon - I hear it's okay, but I'm spoiled by pretty good Mexican options). What, is LA's food In N' Out Burger?

All the food stories I've heard about Oakland seem to involve bean pies, but I doubt that's representative. Locavorism as an East Bay thing works, I guess (says the guy who has never been there).
   120. phredbird Posted: February 19, 2013 at 04:55 PM (#4372087)
I realize LA is known for many other things (food trucks, various Asian delicacies, etc.), but I find the mom & pop doughnut shops at every corner strip mall to be an awesome part of LA. Seattle has a bit of that, too.


its weird, its like every asian that came over to L.A. thought a doughnut shop would be a good idea, and then they all hang on. some of them serve other food, which can get interesting.
   121. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: February 19, 2013 at 05:02 PM (#4372101)
Nevermind. It was just an observation that every MLB team actually shares a city with another major pro sports franchise (something that isn't true of the other three leagues).


gotcha and I think it has been that way for some time.

You know, the Varsity chili dog isn't even all that good.


Varsity itself isn't all that good. What popped in my head was my memory of Ed Debevic's (Chicago) and wondering out loud how the place was still in business. When the draw is the shtick of the employees, its a sign the place has got nothin'.
   122. SandyRiver Posted: February 19, 2013 at 05:06 PM (#4372106)
I'm blanking on the NFL. Jacksonville and.....? I don't think I'd count Green Bay.

Nashville? Don't ask about the NBA/NHL sole-source teams; I can't (or don't care enough to) keep up with franchise moves in those leagues.
   123. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: February 19, 2013 at 05:07 PM (#4372109)
You know, the Varsity chili dog isn't even all that good.


Not really, no. But then again, Philly cheesesteaks and that shaved beef thing from Chicago aren't that good either.
   124. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: February 19, 2013 at 05:08 PM (#4372113)
Nashville? Don't ask about the NBA/NHL sole-source teams; I can't (or don't care enough to) keep up with franchise moves in those leagues.


Nashville has an NHL team, the Predators.
   125. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 19, 2013 at 05:10 PM (#4372115)

Coffee is a beverage, though, not a food.


Beverage associated with each MLB city:

New York - Manhattan
Boston - Samuel Adams
Chicago - Goose Island?
St. Louis - Budweiser
Milwuakee - Old Milwaukee
Minnesota - Leinenkugel
Denver - Coors
Seattle - Starbucks coffee
Washington - lobbyist-paid martinis
Miami - mojito
Atlanta - Coca Cola
Kansas City - Boulevard Beer
San Francisco - Fernet
Los Angeles - Soju
San Diego - tequila
Detroit - Faygo
Toronto - Labatt's
Cleveland - Great Lakes Beer
Pittsburgh - Rolling Rock
Philadelphia - Yuengling
   126. Every Inge Counts Posted: February 19, 2013 at 05:13 PM (#4372119)
I'm blanking on the NFL. Jacksonville and.....? I don't think I'd count Green Bay.

Nashville? Don't ask about the NBA/NHL sole-source teams; I can't (or don't care enough to) keep up with franchise moves in those leagues.


Jacksonville and Green Bay in the NFL

NBA has: Memphis, Oklahoma City, Portland, Orlando, Sacramento, Salt Lake City, and San Antonio

NHL has: Raleigh, San Jose, Columbus, and then the Canadian teams (Ottawa, Winnipeg, Calgary, Vancouver, Edmonton, and Montreal).
   127. Mike A Posted: February 19, 2013 at 05:15 PM (#4372123)
I've eaten at the Varsity once in my 25 years in Atlanta, and that was...25 years ago. Never felt a desire to go back. But, it's an icon...something you do when visiting ATL, taking in the atmosphere and enjoying the experience. If you want actual *good* food, there are a few hundred better choices.
   128. SoSH U at work Posted: February 19, 2013 at 05:20 PM (#4372130)
gotcha and I think it has been that way for some time.


Baltimore, from the time of the Colts exodus through the Ravens arrival, is the only exception that comes to mind.
   129. Flynn Posted: February 19, 2013 at 05:22 PM (#4372133)
San Francisco - Fernet


I love my Fernet, but...dude, Anchor Steam?

Also Iron City for Pittsburgh and Old Style for Chicago.
   130. SoSH U at work Posted: February 19, 2013 at 05:24 PM (#4372136)
Milwuakee - Old Milwaukee

I believe that would be one of the Miller products before Ol' Mil.
   131. CrosbyBird Posted: February 19, 2013 at 05:25 PM (#4372137)
But then again, Philly cheesesteaks and that shaved beef thing from Chicago aren't that good either.

The best cheesesteak I've ever had was at The White House in Atlantic City. I suppose it's pretty close to Philly, though.

I eat more crappy food now that I live in Manhattan than ever before. There are so many places to try and a good number of them are terrible, but there's always the chance that you find a real gem. I don't even have a consistently great pizza place in my neighborhood. I mean, it's NYC pizza so compared to most other places, the "crappy" pizza is still really good, but it seems like the really great stuff is in Brooklyn and Queens.
   132. Flynn Posted: February 19, 2013 at 05:25 PM (#4372139)
It's interesting that there are several US cities with only an MLB and NFL team. Baltimore, Cincinnati, Kansas City, Seattle (for the time being) and San Diego. You would think they would be the two most difficult leagues to support two teams in if you're a small or medium-sized city.
   133. Into the Void Posted: February 19, 2013 at 05:28 PM (#4372142)
I love my Fernet, but...dude, Anchor Steam?


Yeah, I was going to say...especially considering this:

http://www.sfgate.com/business/bottomline/article/Anchor-Brewing-plant-on-S-F-waterfront-4288394.php

Oakland has to be PBR.
   134. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: February 19, 2013 at 05:29 PM (#4372147)
Milwuakee - Old Milwaukee

I believe that would be one of the Miller products before Ol' Mil.


no doubt, Old Mud was even owned for a period by Stroh in Detroit. PBR would be a better ID beer for Milwaukee, if not High Life.

and for Minneapolis, I'd say Grain Belt, by a mile. Leine's distribution is controlled by Miller and they are based in WI.
   135. chris p Posted: February 19, 2013 at 05:39 PM (#4372154)
Kansas City - Boulevard Beer

they win.
   136. cardsfanboy Posted: February 19, 2013 at 05:40 PM (#4372157)
It's interesting that there are several US cities with only an MLB and NFL team. Baltimore, Cincinnati, Kansas City, Seattle (for the time being) and San Diego. You would think they would be the two most difficult leagues to support two teams in if you're a small or medium-sized city.


I think the lap of overlap helps tremendously.
   137. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 19, 2013 at 05:49 PM (#4372163)

It's interesting that there are several US cities with only an MLB and NFL team. Baltimore, Cincinnati, Kansas City, Seattle (for the time being) and San Diego. You would think they would be the two most difficult leagues to support two teams in if you're a small or medium-sized city.


The NFL only has 10 home dates a year. You could put a team in Terre Haute, IN (or say Green Bay, WI) and it would sell out.

   138. 'zop sympathizes with the wrong ####### people Posted: February 19, 2013 at 06:04 PM (#4372169)
Yeah, I was going to say...especially considering this:

http://www.sfgate.com/business/bottomline/article/Anchor-Brewing-plant-on-S-F-waterfront-4288394.php

Oakland has to be PBR.


Um, the beverage for San Francisco and/or Oakland is wine.
   139. 'zop sympathizes with the wrong ####### people Posted: February 19, 2013 at 06:05 PM (#4372170)
Style and flare from the order? Is there anything structurally special about a NYC bagel? Not really. Just the idea that NYC does bagels better than elsewhere.


If you dont understand or aren't knowledgable about food, that doesn't mean you should loudly proclaim the brilliance of your local cuisine. It means you should be happy you haven't noticed the shadows in the cave and step aside.
   140. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: February 19, 2013 at 06:36 PM (#4372188)
Are we doing just beverages, or alcohol. Because Atlanta has a ton of fantastic micros up and running, but if you're going "something you drink from Atlanta," yeah, that's Coke.
   141. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: February 19, 2013 at 06:37 PM (#4372189)
If you dont understand or aren't knowledgable about food, that doesn't mean you should loudly proclaim the brilliance of your local cuisine.


I'm sorry, I'll make sure to ask and only eat with an outstretched pinky finger from now own, sir.
   142. 'zop sympathizes with the wrong ####### people Posted: February 19, 2013 at 06:40 PM (#4372190)
I'm sorry, I'll make sure to ask and only eat with an outstretched pinky finger from now own, sir.


Oh yeah, because italian beef and cincinatti chili and milwaukee fish fry, thats the food of the elites.
   143. Into the Void Posted: February 19, 2013 at 07:04 PM (#4372202)
Oh yeah, because italian beef and cincinatti chili and milwaukee fish fry, thats the food of the elites.


That's what I don't get about the people complaining that there is no good Italian beef outside of Chicago. My first thought was "Who cares?" That's something most people eat once every two or three months at the most.
   144. Into the Void Posted: February 19, 2013 at 07:05 PM (#4372203)
Oh yeah, because italian beef and cincinatti chili and milwaukee fish fry, thats the food of the elites.


That's what I don't get about the people complaining that there is no good Italian beef outside of Chicago. My first thought was "Who cares?" That's something most people eat once every two or three months at the most.
   145. The Fallen Reputation of Billy Jo Robidoux Posted: February 19, 2013 at 07:11 PM (#4372205)
Leine's distribution is controlled by Miller


Miller owns them, even if you wouldn't know it from the brewery tour.

As for Milwaukee, I'd say Miller High Life or Miller Lite. Pabst brands (including Old Milwaukee) aren't even brewed there anymore.
   146. smileyy Posted: February 19, 2013 at 07:14 PM (#4372207)
Does DePaul still play in Rosemont Horizon? If so, ick.
   147. flournoy Posted: February 19, 2013 at 07:24 PM (#4372216)
I've eaten at the Varsity once in my 25 years in Atlanta, and that was...25 years ago. Never felt a desire to go back. But, it's an icon...something you do when visiting ATL, taking in the atmosphere and enjoying the experience. If you want actual *good* food, there are a few hundred better choices.


This is The Varsity in a nutshell. It's a tourist trap. The food is very greasy and fatty, and nothing special taste-wise. The reason to go there is because it's famous (and maybe to experience the rudeness of the staff). Once you've been there, there's no reason to go back.

I am by no means a foodie, but I can't come up with an iconic "Atlanta food." Certainly nothing like oysters or shrimp & grits are to Charleston.
   148. zonk Posted: February 19, 2013 at 07:25 PM (#4372217)
That's what I don't get about the people complaining that there is no good Italian beef outside of Chicago. My first thought was "Who cares?" That's something most people eat once every two or three months at the most.


Such people have no souls... I probably have a good dipped beef from either portillos, murphy's, Al's, Nemos, or about a dozen other places once a week.


Chicago - Goose Island?


Well it continues to try like the Dickens to overcompensate -- I would say that ever since Goose Island got bought out (Annheiser Busch, I think?) -- it's really been more 'marketing driven' to call them a Chicago beer.... I just toured the brewery a few months back and while they do still brew and do creations locally - I really do get the sense that an awful lot of what you can find now is more a 'branding' operation, i.e., "312" or "Green Line" is sort of 'Chicago' in the sense that hey, we slapped a clever Chicago name on it.

The local craft beer of choice nowadays is probably coming out of Half Acre....
   149. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: February 19, 2013 at 07:36 PM (#4372222)
Well it continues to try like the Dickens to overcompensate -- I would say that ever since Goose Island got bought out (Annheiser Busch, I think?) -- it's really been more 'marketing driven' to call them a Chicago beer.... I just toured the brewery a few months back and while they do still brew and do creations locally - I really do get the sense that an awful lot of what you can find now is more a 'branding' operation, i.e., "312" or "Green Line" is sort of 'Chicago' in the sense that hey, we slapped a clever Chicago name on it.


312 was introduced in (IIRC) 2004 and so long predates the Anheuser-Busch takeover. That said, it's now produced in upstate New York.
   150. zonk Posted: February 19, 2013 at 07:36 PM (#4372223)

The best cheesesteak I've ever had was at The White House in Atlantic City. I suppose it's pretty close to Philly, though.


I won't claim it's on par with what you'd find in Philly proper -- but Philly's Best in Chicago is pretty good... I know they get their meat from the same place that either Pats or Genos in Philly proper does and they do use Amoroso rolls.
   151. Into the Void Posted: February 19, 2013 at 07:38 PM (#4372224)
Such people have no souls... I probably have a good dipped beef from either portillos, murphy's, Al's, Nemos, or about a dozen other places once a week.


Sorry, I wasn't intending to be a snob. I lived in Chicago for eight years and once I moved I just never once found myself wanting some sort of Italian sausage or meat specialized to the area. It tastes great but it was always like junk food to me. Though I do miss torta's with ground beef, which apparently don't exist on the West coast.
   152. Srul Itza Posted: February 19, 2013 at 07:43 PM (#4372227)
Is there anything structurally special about a NYC bagel?


Yes, if you buy them from a kosher outlet. They are made the right way, by boiling the dough. In other cities, bagels are just round rolls with holes in them.
   153. 'zop sympathizes with the wrong ####### people Posted: February 19, 2013 at 07:46 PM (#4372228)
Yes, if you buy them from a kosher outlet. They are made the right way, by boiling the dough. In other cities, bagels are just round rolls with holes in them.


FWIW, almost none of the extant bagel joints in NYC are kosher, but all but the worst still boil their bagels.
   154. thok Posted: February 19, 2013 at 07:46 PM (#4372230)
Baltimore-crab


Needs more Old Bay seasoning to properly represent Maryland. Even if you've already added the Old Bay seasoning.
   155. CrosbyBird Posted: February 19, 2013 at 07:49 PM (#4372231)
That's what I don't get about the people complaining that there is no good Italian beef outside of Chicago. My first thought was "Who cares?" That's something most people eat once every two or three months at the most.

Really? If it's as good as it sounds, I would probably eat something like that pretty regularly.
   156. Into the Void Posted: February 19, 2013 at 08:07 PM (#4372240)
Really? If it's as good as it sounds, I would probably eat something like that pretty regularly.


Well, 1) It's really, really unhealthy to eat regularly, and 2) it's one of those things that become less appealing the more you indulge, for me anyway. It tastes GREAT, just like pasta, but that doesn't mean I want to eat it more than once or twice a month.
   157. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: February 19, 2013 at 08:12 PM (#4372244)
Certainly nothing like oysters or shrimp & grits are to Charleston.


I am by no means a foodie, but I can't come up with an iconic "Atlanta food."

Is that significantly more Charleston than Savannah? It's all the low country, right?

Part of this is that "identity" is not what Atlanta does. Atlanta does dispersion of identity. Atlanta is the city in the center of the Old South that was "too busy to hate." That probably doesn't lend itself to ethnic identity food choices.
   158. flournoy Posted: February 19, 2013 at 08:21 PM (#4372252)
Is that significantly more Charleston than Savannah? It's all the low country, right?


Perhaps so. I live in Charleston, so that's my frame of reference, but I'd let someone more familiar with Savannah or Myrtle Beach or wherever make that call. (Though for Myrtle Beach, I think you'd want a food that properly captured the aura of tackiness.)
   159. Lassus Posted: February 19, 2013 at 08:22 PM (#4372254)
312 was introduced in (IIRC) 2004 and so long predates the Anheuser-Busch takeover. That said, it's now produced in upstate New York.

At the same brewery that does most of the Brooklyn Brewery beers, F.X. Matt's in Utica? That would be awesome, but I can't find where it confirms that.


Is there anything structurally special about a NYC bagel? Not really. Just the idea that NYC does bagels better than elsewhere.

I normally agree with stuff like this, but a large large percentage of the places in NYC that make bagels just care more about the quality, I think. I've had bagels elsewhere, all over, and they really just are a better quality in New York. IMO.
   160. Howling John Shade Posted: February 19, 2013 at 08:45 PM (#4372261)
Um, the beverage for San Francisco and/or Oakland is wine.

No way. Unless Sonoma/Napa is suddenly part of San Francisco. San Francisco and Oakland are both beer obsessed. The wine bars are probably in a close race with the kombucha bars and both are outnumbered by Belgian ale houses.

Although, I'm not sure whether we're talking about what people in these cities actually eat and drink, or what people from other places think is the food and drink associated with that city. If the latter, then wine is probably right.
   161. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 19, 2013 at 08:53 PM (#4372267)
Shredder, for good Mexican in Chicago try La Lagartia on Ashland near the Mexican consulate. My girlfriend grew up in Mexico City and is a fantastic cook, and it's her favorite in the city.
   162. 'zop sympathizes with the wrong ####### people Posted: February 19, 2013 at 08:57 PM (#4372270)
No way. Unless Sonoma/Napa is suddenly part of San Francisco. San Francisco and Oakland are both beer obsessed. The wine bars are probably in a close race with the kombucha bars and both are outnumbered by Belgian ale houses.


Perhaps, but (a) a lot of wine is made in Oakland, with grapes trucked in from the surrounding wine country and (b) the Bay Area isn't any more beer obsessed than half a dozen other US cities, but it is a stone's throw from one of the top 5 places to grow wine grapes in the world.
   163. GregD Posted: February 19, 2013 at 09:39 PM (#4372284)
The best cheesesteak I've ever had was at The White House in Atlantic City. I suppose it's pretty close to Philly, though.
That place is just tremendous.

For Philly people, roast pork with broccoli rabe and sharp provolone is just as much the sandwich as the cheese steak. John's is terrific.
   164. Rafael Bellylard: Built like a Panda. Posted: February 19, 2013 at 09:49 PM (#4372290)
As for food, the burrito, sourdough, cioppino, Joe's Special, crab Louie, crab in general, and the martini are pretty good food items that come from San Francisco. Better than many other cities!


I got this far and you can guess what I made for dinner tonight.

There are two places that my stomach misses since I left San Francisco moved to Florida. Original Joe's and Lucca's Delicatessen. If either ever opened a franchise in Orlando I'd make them wealthy.
   165. SandyRiver Posted: February 19, 2013 at 11:06 PM (#4372326)
For about 15 years there was a kosher bagel place in downtown Bangor, and their product was wa-a-a-ay better than any other bagels I've had in Maine (though one might find good kosher bagels in Portland.) Any time I came thru the city, I'd grab a dozen. The difference was about the same as a good Maine lobster roll compared to any from south of New England. The very best are allegedly found at Red's Eats on Rt 1 in Wiscasset, though I've never braved the line to try one.
   166. Shredder Posted: February 20, 2013 at 12:36 AM (#4372366)
Goose Island is really three breweries these days. There's the AB-InBev Goose that brews their Honkers Ale, IPA, 312, etc., which is pretty much all AB these days, and really was never that great even when John Hall was in charge anyway. Then there's the Goose that does their stouts (Big John, Night Stalker), and their Belgians (Matilda, Sofie, Pepe Nero ,etc.). Then there are the really specialty guys who do their sours (Juliet, Lolita, Madame Rose) and their barrel aging (Bourbon CountyBrand Stout and variants, etc.).

Their Belgians are world class, but their barrel aged stuff is otherworldly. BCBS is the best beer in its class on the planet.
   167. Shredder Posted: February 20, 2013 at 12:43 AM (#4372371)
Shredder, for good Mexican in Chicago try La Lagartia on Ashland near the Mexican consulate. My girlfriend grew up in Mexico City and is a fantastic cook, and it's her favorite in the city.
I'll have to try that. Aside from from Frontera, we have Mixteco at Ashland and Montrose which is terrific. I'd like to try El Barco sometime. For now Papcitos on Lincoln does pretty good Fajitas ad chips/salsa.

Nothing, however, beats the shrimp wrapped in cheese and bacon that I can get at La Neuva Posada on Foothill in Pasadena, which I always hit multiple times when back in California. The owner has become a good family friend. Terrific margaritas and outstanding service.
   168. Kris Posted: February 20, 2013 at 01:31 AM (#4372378)
Wait, can't find good Mexican in Chicago? Do you venture to the South Side? I mean there's phenomenal stuff here. La Chaparrita is basically a top notch DF taqueria except it's on Whipple and 25th, Birrieria Zaragoza has goat as good as anywhere, the Maxwell street market has loads of choices, and, well there are so many fantastic spots it would take way too much time to list. It is easier to get a lot of Mexican ingredients here than in lots of spots much closer to the border. I know this because relatives and friends from Texas and such make a point of grabbing things here when they are in town. An Irish friend of mine was blown away to hear that Mexican ladies in his office regularly mailed things to family in Texas. He didn't get that in a lot of places with large Mexican populations most of the people, and consequently their food, comes from a handful of states so it can be hard to get stuff from other regions. The breadth in Chicago is very impressive, no matter what region of Mexico you're from you can get it here or the ingredients to make it at home.
   169. RMc is a fine piece of cheese Posted: February 20, 2013 at 09:39 AM (#4372445)
Wait, can't find good Mexican in Chicago? Do you venture to the South Side?

The baddest part of town?
   170. TerpNats Posted: February 20, 2013 at 11:25 AM (#4372549)
If Montreal still had a team, their dish of choice would unquestionably be a smoked meat sandwich.
Or Habitant yellow pea soup.
312 was introduced in (IIRC) 2004 and so long predates the Anheuser-Busch takeover. That said, it's now produced in upstate New York.
Then shouldn't it be renamed "315"?
   171. Shredder Posted: February 20, 2013 at 12:14 PM (#4372591)
Then shouldn't it be renamed "315"?
I don't know if it's happened yet, but I thought they were planning on marketing it at some point in each major city with that city's area code. So in LA, they'd sell 213, or 818, or 310 or something. I haven't seen it anywhere else yet though.
   172. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: February 20, 2013 at 12:25 PM (#4372600)
I'm a bit surprised no one referenced Nate Silver's Chicago Burrito Bracket.
   173. Lassus Posted: February 20, 2013 at 12:30 PM (#4372605)
Then shouldn't it be renamed "315"?

-applause-
   174. The District Attorney Posted: February 20, 2013 at 12:39 PM (#4372612)
The Iron Sheik @the_ironsheik

I eat at the #1 Jewish people deli the Canter deli in the Los Angeles I be happy. http://instagr.am/p/V7ZbO4nk4d/
So that settles that.
   175. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: February 20, 2013 at 01:49 PM (#4372693)
People still follow the Sheik? now that he's doing food reviews, I think we can all move on to something else.
   176. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 20, 2013 at 02:14 PM (#4372715)
Agreed, Shredder and Kris - Mixteco is excellent, and the Maxwell Street market has plenty of great options as well. Get the caldo from the furthest food stall north on the west side of the street (can't remember the name, but they have a seating area). Their tacos are excellent too.
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