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Tuesday, July 23, 2019

White Sox host 1st MLB game with foul pole-to-pole netting

CHICAGO (AP) — The Chicago White Sox have become the first team in the major leagues to extend protective netting from foul pole to foul pole, starting Monday night against the Miami Marlins.

The extra netting at Guaranteed Rate Field was in place for Chicago’s first home game since the All-Star break. The White Sox announced the safety measure last month, a week after a foul ball at the park sent a woman to the hospital with her head bleeding.

On Sunday in Cleveland, another fan was hurt by a foul. Indians star Francisco Lindor said he was told his line drive put a 3-year-old boy in the hospital.

“It’s a great idea,” White Sox pitcher Evan Marshall said. “It’s a shame it wasn’t done sooner and just almost a standard across baseball, I think. Finally the players are speaking out because everybody is tired of seeing people get hit.

The expansion of the nets is not just something in MLB- at my hometown stadium, they substantially increased the size of the netting between last season and this one.

 

QLE Posted: July 23, 2019 at 04:33 AM | 122 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: netting, white sox

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   1. Moeball Posted: July 23, 2019 at 09:21 PM (#5864365)
Having sat by the dugout on a few occasions over the years, I have to admit I've had foul line drives whiz past my head before and I was lucky I didn't get clobbered. I think extended netting is probably a good idea and fans can still get foul ball souvenirs on pop ups.
   2. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 23, 2019 at 09:28 PM (#5864368)
The nets will also presumably prevent fans from going after the visiting base coaches. Bonus!
   3. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: July 23, 2019 at 09:42 PM (#5864377)
Re: post #2

Heh.
   4. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: July 24, 2019 at 02:24 AM (#5864473)
I predict this won't even make a dent in the city's malaria rate.
   5. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 24, 2019 at 10:07 AM (#5864505)
Any idea how high these nets go? Can you avoid them by sitting higher up in the first deck?

This is a really good reason to buy cheaper seats, or stay home and watch the game. I've never liked sitting behind home and watching the game through the net.
   6. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: July 24, 2019 at 11:18 AM (#5864545)
Great to see.
   7. Master of the Horse Posted: July 24, 2019 at 11:28 AM (#5864550)
If you go on Twitter the only people crying about nets at baseball games are old white guys. Everyone else is 'cool' or 'pretty obvious' or 'thank you'. Surprised the prez hasn't tweeted an exec order demanding the nets be removed since he is the leader of that demo
   8. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 24, 2019 at 11:54 AM (#5864566)
If you go on Twitter the only people crying about nets at baseball games are old white guys.

Maybe we're the only ones who actually watch the game. In any case, I'm not sure why someone's age, sex, or race invalidates their opinion.
   9. Master of the Horse Posted: July 24, 2019 at 12:01 PM (#5864569)
8--classic response because the angry crowd 90 percent of the time in tweets include a rant against phones. BAN PHONES AT BASEBALL GAMES AND NOBODY GETS HURT EVER!!!!!!!!
   10. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 24, 2019 at 12:22 PM (#5864582)
If you go on Twitter the only people crying about nets at baseball games are old white guys.
If you go on Twitter the only people talking about baseball are (relatively) old white guys.
   11. Master of the Horse Posted: July 24, 2019 at 12:25 PM (#5864583)
10--Nah, I have a lot of women who tweet about baseball in my feed. I mean I hear you that yes that group is significant. But it's not dominant. Or maybe my baseball feed is the outlier somehow
   12. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 24, 2019 at 12:37 PM (#5864587)
10--Nah, I have a lot of women who tweet about baseball in my feed.
Huh. I'm not as Twitterer (or any social media-er), so I was just being flippant. I'm glad that the discussion is actually more diverse.
   13. SoSH U at work Posted: July 24, 2019 at 12:47 PM (#5864592)
To be fair, I think old white guys talking baseball probably describes us a lot better than it does the hardball conversation on the Twitter.

   14. Jay Z Posted: July 24, 2019 at 12:48 PM (#5864593)
If I had a kid who played Little League ball, high school baseball, I would likely be watching from behind a screen.
   15. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: July 24, 2019 at 12:51 PM (#5864594)
10--Nah, I have a lot of women who tweet about baseball in my feed.
Young woman Dodgers fan Twitter is HUGE. It's quite entertaining to read praise of Matt Beaty's thighs.
   16. SoSH U at work Posted: July 24, 2019 at 12:53 PM (#5864595)

If I had a kid who played Little League ball, high school baseball, I would likely be watching from behind a screen.


The vast majority of my baseball watching is through a screen/fence for that very reason. After a very short time, you don't even think about it.


   17. Topher Posted: July 24, 2019 at 01:08 PM (#5864604)
I'm pro-netting and I definitely support these efforts. If I'm in the lower bowl and buying tickets I do my best to be behind netting.

That said, the two photos of Leury Garcia seem really weird to me. I think it is in part because the net is 325 feet away from home plate. But I think it's also because the netting isn't at a 90 degree angle and instead goes over the top of those seats as well.

Maybe the game experience would be different, but I don't think I'd like sitting in those first few rows way down the rightfield line. That's not me arguing that there shouldn't be netting there, just that my gut tells me that I'd want to find different seats.
   18. Srul Itza Posted: July 24, 2019 at 01:37 PM (#5864624)
fans can still get foul ball souvenirs on pop ups


I approve the screens, but does this also mean that reach-in catches (or Jeter-like dive-in catches) of pop flies in the first row or so are now impossible?
   19. RoyalFlush Posted: July 24, 2019 at 01:49 PM (#5864630)
I approve the screens, but does this also mean that reach-in catches (or Jeter-like dive-in catches) of pop flies in the first row or so are now impossible?


Yes. Even the borderline ones where players are just leaning in are much more unlikely. I believe it does sort of shrink the foul territory.
   20. PreservedFish Posted: July 24, 2019 at 01:54 PM (#5864633)
Yes. Even the borderline ones where players are just leaning in are much more unlikely. I believe it does sort of shrink the foul territory.


That's unfortunate. Perhaps they should be working on a missile defense system to eventually replace the screens.
   21. JAHV Posted: July 24, 2019 at 02:42 PM (#5864660)
That's unfortunate. Perhaps they should be working on a missile defense system to eventually replace the screens.


Some sort of speed inhibitor would work - similar to what happened when a ship went through the portal in season 3 of The Expanse. It's a controlled velocity sector where any object going faster than, say, 50 MPH is slowed to the limit. Sure, this is fictional alien technology, but let's get our brightest minds on it.

In reality, I personally am not the biggest fan of sitting behind the nets. On the admittedly rare occasions when I bought seats in the lower bowl, I'd make sure to get seats past the nets and bring my glove. I never got a foul ball, but I was ready. I also watch every pitch of the entire game (at least while I'm in my seat), so I understand I'm not typical. I think this development is necessary to keep people safe, so I'm in favor. This just means I won't ever spring for those seats again. Outfield bleachers or nosebleeds it is!
   22. SoSH U at work Posted: July 24, 2019 at 02:48 PM (#5864663)
I approve the screens, but does this also mean that reach-in catches (or Jeter-like dive-in catches) of pop flies in the first row or so are now impossible?


It's unavoidable*. Just as you can't go into the stands to catch a pop-up behind home plate.

* Absent eliminating the front row of seats.
   23. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: July 24, 2019 at 03:07 PM (#5864668)
I never got a foul ball, but I was ready. I also watch every pitch of the entire game (at least while I'm in my seat), so I understand I'm not typical. I think this development is necessary to keep people safe, so I'm in favor. This just means I won't ever spring for those seats again. Outfield bleachers or nosebleeds it is!


The nets don't completely cover the lower bowl. You're still much more likely to get a foul ball in the lower bowl than the nosebleeds.

Personally I'm a huge fan of sitting behind the plate. No danger of line drives but there is the opportunity of pop fouls.
   24. Eddo Posted: July 24, 2019 at 03:09 PM (#5864670)
I was at Monday's game, in the tenth row, about halfway between the visitors' dugout and the RF foul pole. I literally did not notice the netting once.

------

In reality, I personally am not the biggest fan of sitting behind the nets. On the admittedly rare occasions when I bought seats in the lower bowl, I'd make sure to get seats past the nets and bring my glove. I never got a foul ball, but I was ready. I also watch every pitch of the entire game (at least while I'm in my seat), so I understand I'm not typical. I think this development is necessary to keep people safe, so I'm in favor. This just means I won't ever spring for those seats again. Outfield bleachers or nosebleeds it is!

The netting is only vertical (just like behind the plate). Foul balls were still plentiful. My uncle, who turns 70 in a month, caught his first ever foul ball in these seats at that game. Then, he happened to catch another one the very next night (but on the LF side). What a weird coincidence.
   25. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: July 24, 2019 at 04:02 PM (#5864695)
My uncle, who turns 70 in a month, caught his first ever foul ball in these seats at that game. Then, he happened to catch another one the very next night (but on the LF side). What a weird coincidence.


World's biggest fan of baseball netting?
   26. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 24, 2019 at 04:30 PM (#5864703)
At this point it feels inevitable that all MLB parks will soon have full netting, and that it will be used for some sort of Spider-Man promo.
   27. A triple short of the cycle Posted: July 24, 2019 at 05:06 PM (#5864712)
Personally I'm a huge fan of sitting behind the plate. No danger of line drives but there is the opportunity of pop fouls.
Same here. I love to sit in the second deck in Oakland, behind the plate (Section 217). You're right below the press box there. Great view of the game.
   28. Master of the Horse Posted: July 24, 2019 at 05:07 PM (#5864713)
27--Those are great seats. Good call.
   29. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: July 24, 2019 at 05:53 PM (#5864723)
iirc, in japan netting goes pole to pole and one team sells "excitement seats", tix by the pole that come with, like, gloves and a helmet or something.

sidenote: 538 had an article on fall balls recently that was interesting, on where hard fouls go.
We Watched 906 Foul Balls To Find Out Where The Most Dangerous Ones Land
   30. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 25, 2019 at 07:52 AM (#5864802)
Hey, I have an idea: people could get hurt traveling to the game, so why not just eliminate all seats and force everyone to watch on tv at home? Sure, the view might not be as good, but that's not as important as eliminating any possible risk from the world.
   31. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: July 25, 2019 at 09:41 AM (#5864806)
At this point it feels inevitable that all MLB parks will soon have full netting, and that it will be used for some sort of Spider-Man promo.

Spider-Man far from Home: Just like our netting!
   32. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: July 25, 2019 at 09:43 AM (#5864807)
Hey, I have an idea: people could get hurt traveling to the game, so why not just eliminate all seats and force everyone to watch on tv at home? Sure, the view might not be as good, but that's not as important as eliminating any possible risk from the world.

David, The Market has spoken. And The Market demands more netting.

You live by The Market, you die by The Market. Suck it up.
   33. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 25, 2019 at 09:53 AM (#5864809)
David, The Market has spoken. And The Market demands more netting.

You live by The Market, you die by The Market. Suck it up.


I'm confused. Did this happen because teams all of a sudden couldn't sell seats down the 1B and 3B line, or because a bunch of people were complaining?

The first one is the market, the second isn't.
   34. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: July 25, 2019 at 10:24 AM (#5864813)
I'm confused. Did this happen because teams all of a sudden couldn't sell seats down the 1B and 3B line, or because a bunch of people were complaining?

The first one is the market, the second isn't.

Teams are putting these up, because they think it will increase their bottom line. That's pretty much what businesses do. And that is pretty much the essence of free market behaviour.
   35. Zonk would like to buy all your Greenlands Posted: July 25, 2019 at 10:26 AM (#5864814)
Old(er) white guy opinion...

I generally tend to try for seats further down the lines to avoid watching through netting.

I'm fine with - I suppose even moderately support - things like this, but I do find that when I'm seated behind the netting, it takes an inning or so to get over the annoyance of the view.

So, I want it both ways.
   36. Zonk would like to buy all your Greenlands Posted: July 25, 2019 at 10:29 AM (#5864817)
Maybe create some kind of antigravity field that reacts to the velocity of batted balls and slows them down enough to avoid injury to fans.

That seems like the optimal solution to me.
   37. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: July 25, 2019 at 10:33 AM (#5864819)
sample size one but there have been a few times where I did not go to games with my kids because I couldn't find a set of three contiguous seats not behind nets. (but there were plenty of seats available on the lines).
i don't think it's a huge impact on demand, but i'm pretty sure it's non zero.
   38. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 25, 2019 at 10:40 AM (#5864822)
Teams are putting these up, because they think it will increase their bottom line. That's pretty much what businesses do. And that is pretty much the essence of free market behaviour.

Not when the concern for the bottom line is based upon fear of ridiculous lawsuits and hyperventilating bad press.

There were already plenty of seats that had zero foul ball risk. That was the market answer. If you don't want to pay attention all the time, or have a small child you're worried about, pick those seats.

Unfortunately, our society has adopted the mantra that whenever anything bad happens to someone it's the fault of somebody else with deep pockets.
   39. Zonk would like to buy all your Greenlands Posted: July 25, 2019 at 10:44 AM (#5864823)
Unfortunately, our society has adopted the mantra that whenever anything bad happens to someone it's the fault of somebody else with deep pockets.


My analysis of media, society, and politics reveals a quite different set of someones who always seem to be at fault.
   40. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 25, 2019 at 10:54 AM (#5864825)
My analysis of media, society, and politics reveals a quite different set of someones who always seem to be at fault.

Really? You don't think we're the most litigious society on earth, by a large margin?
   41. Zonk would like to buy all your Greenlands Posted: July 25, 2019 at 10:59 AM (#5864827)
Really? You don't think we're the most litigious society on earth, by a large margin?


No, actually I don't....

In fact, the data suggests that forget "by a large margin" -- we're not even the most litigious country period.

When you think about the 10 most litigious countries in the world, many people would immediately think of the United States of America (US). However, the Land of the Free only comes in at number 5. Germany is the top nation in the world for litigious behaviour. Sweden comes in at number 2, Israel is at number 3, and Austria number 4. The field is rounded out in this order: The United Kingdom (UK) at number 6; Denmark at number 7; Hungary number 8; Portugal at number 9; and France at number 10.
   42. Howie Menckel Posted: July 25, 2019 at 10:59 AM (#5864828)
multiple efforts at OTP here
#sigh
   43. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 25, 2019 at 11:12 AM (#5864833)
Hey, I have an idea: people could get hurt traveling to the game, so why not just eliminate all seats and force everyone to watch on tv at home? Sure, the view might not be as good, but that's not as important as eliminating any possible risk from the world.
Remember that thing we were talking about over in the other thread where making ridiculous statements undermines the credibility of your position?
   44. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 25, 2019 at 11:22 AM (#5864839)

David, The Market has spoken. And The Market demands more netting.

You live by The Market, you die by The Market. Suck it up.
I don't think you even understand the concept of the market. Nor is this in any way responsive to what I said; even if "the market" actually had spoken, that in no way means I can't criticize it. If a ballot initiative passes that you don't like, you're not required to stop criticizing it because "You're a fan of democracy and the people have spoken."
   45. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: July 25, 2019 at 11:24 AM (#5864840)
Unfortunately, our society has adopted the mantra that whenever anything bad happens to someone it's the fault of somebody else with deep pockets.


Fortunately, our society has decided our reaction to 2 year olds with skull fractures should be something other than "hey, you should pay attention, kid."
   46. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 25, 2019 at 11:25 AM (#5864843)

In fact, the data suggests that forget "by a large margin" -- we're not even the most litigious country period.
Uh, that's not "the data." That's not even any data. That's a random google result.
   47. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 25, 2019 at 11:28 AM (#5864846)

Fortunately, our society has decided our reaction to 2 year olds with skull fractures should be something other than "hey, you should pay attention, kid."
I'd probably go with, "You should pay attention, parents of kid."
   48. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 25, 2019 at 11:32 AM (#5864848)
Fortunately, our society has decided our reaction to 2 year olds with skull fractures should be something other than "hey, you should pay attention, kid."


I'd probably go with, "You should pay attention, parents of kid."

Exactly.
   49. PreservedFish Posted: July 25, 2019 at 11:32 AM (#5864849)
I suspect that there's some random 3rd world country that is a veritable hellhole of frivolous litigation.
   50. Zonk would like to buy all your Greenlands Posted: July 25, 2019 at 11:34 AM (#5864851)
Uh, that's not "the data." That's not even any data. That's a random google result.


It's referencing this --

There is a common misconception that the U.S. is the most litigious nation in the World. This is simply untrue. While it’s true that the U.S. has a large number of lawsuits crowding its courts each year, it barely cracks the Top 5 of most litigious countries in the world. In his book, “Exploring Global Landscapes of Litigation,” Christian Wollschlager notes that the litigation rates per 1,000 people shows that European nations top the list of the world’s most litigious countries. Here is a list of the top 5 most litigious countries by capita: 1. Germany: 123.2/1,000 2. Sweden: 111.2/1,000 3. Israel: 96.8/1,000 4. Austria: 95.9/1,000 5. U.S.: 74.5/1,000. The Top 10 also includes the UK (64.4); Denmark (62.5); Hungary (52.4); Portugal (40.7); and France (40.3).
   51. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 25, 2019 at 11:35 AM (#5864852)
Since 3rd world countries tend not to be all that big on the rule of law (which is part of what keeps them 3rd world), I would doubt it.
   52. PreservedFish Posted: July 25, 2019 at 11:42 AM (#5864853)
Since 3rd world countries tend not to be all that big on the rule of law (which is part of what keeps them 3rd world), I would doubt it.


3rd world countries can be strange - some are obsessed with red tape and bureaucracy.
   53. Master of the Horse Posted: July 25, 2019 at 11:42 AM (#5864854)
US has a long history of litigation. Did a research paper on land use which required researching litigation on property and the amount of suits in the 18th and 19th century was incredible. That was because the US had a working court system I guess because every person who could file a suit on whatever happened. There were guys then who had multiple suits in action pretty much their entire lives trying to just get property lines defined. Insane.
   54. PreservedFish Posted: July 25, 2019 at 11:49 AM (#5864857)
There were guys then who had multiple suits in action pretty much their entire lives trying to just get property lines defined. Insane.


There was a New Yorker article more than a decade ago about professional litigants - not lawyers, but regular people that sue other people as their primary form of income. It focused on people that troll around California looking for minor ADA noncompliances - like a toilet paper roll being a few inches to high or low in a restaurant bathroom - finding one of these things is an easy $4,000 or so, and some of these people had dozens (or hundreds?) of ongoing lawsuits. It's so bad that it said many motels in California simply do not rent out their designated ADA compliant rooms, they just sit unoccupied 365 days per year, for fear of such lawsuits. (Seems like you should be able to spend a few bucks on a consultant to bring the room up to snuff pretty quick, but what do I know)
   55. JAHV Posted: July 25, 2019 at 11:54 AM (#5864860)
I'm generally of the opinion that if you're going to sit in those seats with your kid, you have a responsibility to make sure the kid is safe. And I've never had a problem with that.

That said, even paying attention you're going to have balls screaming at you, and we fans are not major league caliber fielders. People are still going to get hurt. I can also see the point that with current hitting strategies, we're probably seeing foul balls headed into the stands faster than at any previous point in history. I don't like sitting behind the netting, but if it's not so intrusive that people will gladly still sit there, this makes sense.
   56. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: July 25, 2019 at 11:56 AM (#5864861)
47/48 - not a cure all.
- literal parent of a kid who got a skull fracture at a game
   57. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 25, 2019 at 11:59 AM (#5864864)

Okay, the website linked to is by an advocacy group that says things that are just not true, like, "Second, all courts have rules that greatly discourage the filing of frivolous or baseless lawsuits. Plaintiffs who file such lawsuits, and sometimes even their lawyers, can be subject to serious sanctions and penalties including monetary fines and damages." But the data isn't from that website; it's from something called "Exploring Global Landscapes of Litigation,” by Christian Wollschlager.

I don't have access to said article — it's not a book, despite what the website says — but googling reveals that it was published 20 years ago and reporting on data that is 20-30 years old. And it's not even clear what it's measuring. Is it raw number of lawsuits filed? Is it throwing together small claims, divorce, tort, commercial litigation all in one basket? Does a class action suit — which is nearly unique to the US — count as one lawsuit even though it may involve scores, hundreds, thousands, or even millions of plaintiffs? How is ADR factored in? And how was the data collected in the first place?

I don't know enough about (read: almost nothing) the German legal system to know how much litigation there is or of what type, so many there is more, or a lot more, in Germany, but that isolated datum is not really helpful. And other sources give very different results.
   58. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 25, 2019 at 12:02 PM (#5864867)
@56: I'm sorry to hear that, and I hope the outcome was okay, but of course it's not a cure all; nothing is a cure all. My whole point in my original comment on this thread was that I don't think the goal should be to cure all.
   59. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 25, 2019 at 12:18 PM (#5864871)
@56: I'm sorry to hear that
Kinda rings hollow when it's followed by "but I'm against businesses voluntarily taking steps to prevent it, because liberty!"
   60. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 25, 2019 at 12:38 PM (#5864877)
Kinda rings hollow when it's followed by "but I'm against businesses voluntarily taking steps to prevent it, because liberty!"
Remember that thing we were talking about over in the other thread where making ridiculous statements undermines the credibility of your position?

I'm not against taking steps to prevent it. I'm against taking these steps to prevent it.
   61. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 25, 2019 at 12:42 PM (#5864880)
Remember that thing we were talking about over in the other thread where making ridiculous statements undermines the credibility of your position?
Heh. I bet myself $20 that that would be your exact response.

I'm not against taking steps to prevent it. I'm against taking these steps to prevent it.
OK, so what steps would you support?
   62. Tom Nawrocki Posted: July 25, 2019 at 12:53 PM (#5864888)
Not when the concern for the bottom line is based upon fear of ridiculous lawsuits and hyperventilating bad press.


I hope I never get this cynical in my old age. It seems to me that the teams' concern is that they don't want anyone to get killed, and that that concern is driven by a notion that killing people is a bad thing. In that case, the libertarian response of "Nyah nyah, it's your own stupid fault for putting your kid in a spot where he or she could have gotten killed" doesn't really register.

   63. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: July 25, 2019 at 12:56 PM (#5864893)
My whole point in my original comment on this thread was that I don't think the goal should be to cure all.

I think it's a reasonable point! That said, my cost benefit analysis lands me on the pro netting side, irrespective of my personal experience.
   64. PreservedFish Posted: July 25, 2019 at 01:26 PM (#5864901)
DN's cost-benefit:

Benefit: Might save some kid some day
Cost: My freedom!!!!!
   65. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: July 25, 2019 at 01:33 PM (#5864903)
We could come up with expensive, convoluted solutions that help relatively few people and make the game less enjoyable for many - I'd be against this. We all need to be thoughtful about our acceptance of risk.

I just don't think this is an instance of that.

Also, players have gotten increasingly more vocal about wanting increased netting - they don't want to see this stuff in their workplace. (As I've related before, the nearest player to me during my kid's accident looked worried and horrified.)
   66. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 25, 2019 at 01:36 PM (#5864906)
In that case, the libertarian response of "Nyah nyah, it's your own stupid fault for putting your kid in a spot where he or she could have gotten killed" doesn't really register.
Uh, you're responding to Snapper, not me. "Libertarian" is somewhere around #5,716 on the list of adjectives to describe him.

Also, if they were driven by opposition to people being killed, they'd have done this decades ago and it would be MLB-wide.
   67. Tom Nawrocki Posted: July 25, 2019 at 01:58 PM (#5864914)
Uh, you're responding to Snapper, not me. "Libertarian" is somewhere around #5,716 on the list of adjectives to describe him.


I was responding to what I perceive as the libertarian take on this.


Also, if they were driven by opposition to people being killed, they'd have done this decades ago and it would be MLB-wide.


There have been a spate of stories recently about people getting hit by foul balls. It's possible that this is merely driven by greater media access - if you got hit by a foul ball in 1979, it wasn't going to be shared on Facebook and featured on ESPN.

But it's also possible that the instances of people getting hit have been increasing - the newer parks are constructed with seats closer to the field, and there are a lot more people attending games now than in 1979. Given the fact that every player is now a power hitter, it's also possible that there are more screaming line drives being hit. Nobody was ever scared of a foul ball off the bat of Mario Mendoza.

If you can find examples of people like Francisco Lindor calling for more netting "decades ago," knock yourself out.
   68. BrianBrianson Posted: July 25, 2019 at 02:03 PM (#5864917)
I feel like there's got to be some solution with magnets that both eliminates the need for unsightly netting, and the risk of being his by fast foul balls. Like, a conducting copper wire core in the ball, and really strong vertical magnetic fields along the front row, so that if balls move too fast into the seats, they generate a massive amount of current and explode.
   69. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: July 25, 2019 at 02:15 PM (#5864928)
There have been a spate of stories recently about people getting hit by foul balls. It's possible that this is merely driven by greater media access - if you got hit by a foul ball in 1979, it wasn't going to be shared on Facebook and featured on ESPN.

But it's also possible that the instances of people getting hit have been increasing - the newer parks are constructed with seats closer to the field, and there are a lot more people attending games now than in 1979. Given the fact that every player is now a power hitter, it's also possible that there are more screaming line drives being hit. Nobody was ever scared of a foul ball off the bat of Mario Mendoza.


Totally think both are true. Add to the second point more distracted fans (which you can blame them for, but teams are still in a position to respond or not to it). As to the former, this is exactly the sort of thing (relatively unlikely, visually evocative negative outcome) that people overreact to and new media is good at feeding fears about. (Again, I'm pro- more netting.)
   70. JAHV Posted: July 25, 2019 at 02:18 PM (#5864930)
Also, if they were driven by opposition to people being killed, they'd have done this decades ago and it would be MLB-wide.


It's possible that the way hitters and pitchers (and fans) are now is causing this to be a much greater risk than it was decades ago: More foul balls, quicker bat speeds leading to higher exit velocity, more in-game distractions (namely phones). I find it likely that baseball had your viewpoint: the goal shouldn't be to try to completely eliminate ALL of the risks associated with getting hit by a foul ball since it's impossible. But now that the risk of injury and death is greater due to the factors mentioned above, it changes the calculation. They're still not eliminating all risk, but it's worth it to eliminate most of it. That seems reasonable to me.
   71. RoyalFlush Posted: July 25, 2019 at 02:38 PM (#5864941)
I feel like there's got to be some solution with magnets that both eliminates the need for unsightly netting, and the risk of being his by fast foul balls. Like, a conducting copper wire core in the ball, and really strong vertical magnetic fields along the front row, so that if balls move too fast into the seats, they generate a massive amount of current and explode.


Not that I don't love the idea of seeing this (because I really, really, do), but I'm leaning towards an advancement in technology that would make the netting less unsightly.

I don't really find the netting distracting at all when I sit behind it, but it doesn't seem like we should be far away from netting that is less obtrusive (thinner/stronger).
   72. PreservedFish Posted: July 25, 2019 at 02:56 PM (#5864950)
a conducting copper wire core in the ball


This has real potential ... we deaden the ball, but we sell the idea with a sanctimonious "won't someone think of the children" plea.
   73. Zonk would like to buy all your Greenlands Posted: July 25, 2019 at 03:30 PM (#5864960)
I already told you.

Anti-gravity fields triggered by baseball velocity.

   74. Eddo Posted: July 25, 2019 at 03:54 PM (#5864969)
I don't really find the netting distracting at all when I sit behind it, but it doesn't seem like we should be far away from netting that is less obtrusive (thinner/stronger).

Yeah, I mean, I'm sympathetic towards the "let's not do anything drastic, life is inherently dangerous" argument, but... this netting is so far from "drastic". The only reason I even noticed it when I was at Monday's game was because I knew they had installed it, and I wanted to make sure I noted it. Once the game started and I was watching the action on the other side of the netting, I never noticed it once.
   75. base ball chick Posted: July 25, 2019 at 03:55 PM (#5864970)
i personally despise netting and have a very hard time ignoring the netting - to me it is like having smears on your sunglasses and you can't see right and you can't ignore the smears.

fortunately i couldn't afford a couple hunnert bux for a seat so this would not be an issue for me cuz i'd sit in the $30 a pop "cheap" seats

i disremember people getting hit by foul balls all the time like this even 10 years ago and got no idea why it is happening so much but since it is and since the ballplayers get very upset about what they do (not intentionally) injuring other people, nets it is

so david
if not netting, what do YOU think the teams should do?
   76. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: July 25, 2019 at 04:03 PM (#5864974)
Its hilarious that human bean bags like DMN think "pay attention" is the solution. That fat pile of #### would be absolutely worthless when a 106 mph foul ball came his way.

   77. base ball chick Posted: July 25, 2019 at 04:29 PM (#5864987)
well

even if small children have 100% of their attention on the game, they STILL don't have the ability to catch screaming liners. i've seen grownups with GLOVES ducking or trying to duck foulballs. how many ADULTS actually manage to catch the foul balls???? ive never seen ANY kid catch one of those fouls into the lower decks, even a kid TRYING to catch a foul going 100+ MPH. Now i know that the fielders catch that kind of ball going that speed but they do it PROFESSIONALLY and they have really good quality gloves, too
   78. Dog on the sidewalk has an ugly bracelet Posted: July 25, 2019 at 04:41 PM (#5864989)
Pretty sure I'm at least as fat and bean-baggy as Nieporent, and while I'm not the world's greatest athlete, my reaction time is generally very good. Can hit a 90 mph fastball, catch any line drive hit within my limited range. Being fat surely doesn't help, but I don't think it's that much of an impediment. I'm confident I could at least get a hand on a hard line drive into the stands.

More importantly, what could possibly make you think your comment was appropriate? There are plenty of good ways to mock Nieporent's position here without resorting to cheap, mean-spirited ad-hominems.
   79. Dog on the sidewalk has an ugly bracelet Posted: July 25, 2019 at 04:46 PM (#5864991)
Maybe don't put small children in seats where they're at risk of being struck by a hard line drive? I'm all for netting, but in lieu of it, common sense would be be helpful.
   80. base ball chick Posted: July 25, 2019 at 05:02 PM (#5864999)

it is not only children/babies who get hit

not real too many people of any age can hit or catch a 90 MPH baseball and adults get hit too. like i said, i hardly eve see anyone actually catch a foul ball in the lower deck with either glove or hands
   81. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 25, 2019 at 05:08 PM (#5865001)
it is not only children/babies who get hit

not real too many people of any age can hit or catch a 90 MPH baseball and adults get hit too. like i said, i hardly eve see anyone actually catch a foul ball in the lower deck with either glove or hands
Exactly. And even setting aside reaction times, your spatial mobility is extremely limited when you're sitting in a seat with people on either side of you. You don't really have anywhere to go to get out of the way.
   82. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 25, 2019 at 05:16 PM (#5865006)

it is not only children/babies who get hit
Yeah, but they're the ones who cry about it.

Anyway, I've been sitting in those seats for years and have never managed to get a foul ball anywhere close to me. Including at minor league games where there is much less competition for foul balls. And I don't like watching games through netting. But I'm not wedded to the foul ball thing; if there were netting that were actually unobtrusive, I wouldn't have an objection. I've just yet to see any that isn't distracting.
   83. Dog on the sidewalk has an ugly bracelet Posted: July 25, 2019 at 05:24 PM (#5865008)
80/81:

Points taken, though I think most adults, if paying attention to what's going on, could at least duck a d/or partially block their head/chest from an incoming ball. Not ideal, but a lot less dangerous than doing nothing. Also, most adults can appreciate the risk they're subjecting themselves to, while most children cannot.

If unclear, none of the above is intended as an argument against netting.
   84. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 25, 2019 at 05:26 PM (#5865011)
Anyway, I've been sitting in those seats for years and have never managed to get a foul ball anywhere close to me.
This is really part of your argument?

But more importantly, what safety measures would/do you support? Both BBC and I have asked.
   85. Dog on the sidewalk has an ugly bracelet Posted: July 25, 2019 at 05:32 PM (#5865013)
Hockey-style plexiglass boards would presumably be less intrusive, but far more expensive.
   86. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 25, 2019 at 05:44 PM (#5865020)
I'm very skeptical that they would be less intrusive - (a) In an outdoor setting, unlike a hockey arena, wouldn't it be damn near impossible to keep them clean and smudge-free enough so that no one would notice them? And (b) the noise from foul balls smacking into them would be pretty intrusive.
   87. Eddo Posted: July 25, 2019 at 05:56 PM (#5865025)
Hockey-style plexiglass is already more obtrusive inside; like ElRoy said, outside - with more dirt and the sun's glare - I can't see how it's better outside.

Maybe the White Sox are using special, cutting-edge netting, but like I've said, I was in the tenth row, probably 150 feet from home plate - fairly close to the netting and positioned so that I had to look through the netting at far from a 90 degree angle when watching the batter - and I wouldn't have known the netting was there. This is a photo I took from my seats.

To those of you implying that people should just "deal with it" when it comes to the fact that foul balls will occasionally injure fans... why can't you "deal with it" when it comes to an extremely minimal amount of obstruction that the nets bring?
   88. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 25, 2019 at 06:17 PM (#5865029)
why can't you "deal with it" when it comes to an extremely minimal amount of obstruction that the nets bring?

I can and will, by 1) buying cheaper seats, and 2) going to fewer games. Not exactly what MLB was going for. The people most interested in watching the action generally pay for the better seats. If you're going to stare at your phone anyway, sit in the upper deck.

But overall, this is minor compared MLB's other efforts to make going to the park unappealing.
   89. JAHV Posted: July 25, 2019 at 06:39 PM (#5865033)
This is a photo I took from my seats.


All I see is netting. Is there an actual baseball field behind it?
   90. I Helped Patrick McGoohan Escape Posted: July 25, 2019 at 06:57 PM (#5865038)
#27 / 28 - these are my favorite seats in Oakland as well. By far the best seat in the house. It's in large part because of the expansive foul territory. Even sitting close on the first deck, you feel further away than 216 - 218
   91. PreservedFish Posted: July 25, 2019 at 07:43 PM (#5865050)
All I see is netting. Is there an actual baseball field behind it?


Looked like a nice day at least, judging from the blue triangle in the upper corner.
   92. bobm Posted: July 25, 2019 at 10:19 PM (#5865095)
I was really hoping this was a story about a team responding to the home run craziness by putting up netting between the LF foul pole and RF foul pole across fair territory.
   93. Jay Z Posted: July 26, 2019 at 12:23 AM (#5865118)
Snapper sure loves his 1950s. In research I have done, one meme, yes meme that runs through the newspapers are the virtually daily stories about some kid dying playing in an abandoned house, with firecrackers, and so on. It's not just that these things were occurring, it was that they were being reported on deliberately. Then there are all of the bloody drivers' ed films. And the bomb shelters. It's almost as if... people were interested in making their world safer.

Now I'm sure Snapper thinks the world was made safe enough by 1959 and their work was done. But someone who genuinely wanted to emulate his forebearers would be trying to make his world safer as well. If prior generations have taken the low hanging fruit, get a ladder.

I never sat behind the screen in a big league park. The seats do not exactly go wanting. I have seen them in smaller parks, and frankly, unless you're doing photography, there are more important factors as far as visuals. Yeah, if I want to photograph the sunset, I'll stop my car and get out, but I can still appreciate the sunset looking through my windshield.

The screens are going to go in, so ready your tears of rage. No team is going to want to get sued if someone gets hurt and your team is a holdout. It's going to be an easy call for them.
   94. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: July 26, 2019 at 04:54 AM (#5865135)
I can and will, by 1) buying cheaper seats, and 2) going to fewer games. Not exactly what MLB was going for.

And for every one of you, there will be 5 people going 'hey, I now have a much less stressful time when I go to the game with the kids, we'll go more often"'
   95. PreservedFish Posted: July 26, 2019 at 07:49 AM (#5865139)
And probably 1,000 that don't notice or care.
   96. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 26, 2019 at 09:14 AM (#5865154)
And for every one of you, there will be 5 people going 'hey, I now have a much less stressful time when I go to the game with the kids, we'll go more often"'

The Yankees at least have an announcement every game that if you feel unsafe in your seats they will move you. So, even if you screwed up your initial purchase, there's hasn't been a need to feel "stressed".

Who are these who are unable to select seats that aren't exposed to line drive fouls? It's like 70% of the ballpark.
   97. jmurph Posted: July 26, 2019 at 09:26 AM (#5865156)
I can and will, by 1) buying cheaper seats, and 2) going to fewer games. Not exactly what MLB was going for. The people most interested in watching the action generally pay for the better seats. If you're going to stare at your phone anyway, sit in the upper deck.

But overall, this is minor compared MLB's other efforts to make going to the park unappealing.

snapper there's like 100 threads in the last year alone in which you describe in endless detail how little you like going to baseball games. Let's not pretend anything has changed here because of some netting.
   98. jmurph Posted: July 26, 2019 at 09:28 AM (#5865157)
Its hilarious that human bean bags like DMN think "pay attention" is the solution. That fat pile of #### would be absolutely worthless when a 106 mph foul ball came his way.

I mean I would have worded this a bit less aggressively but yes, this is absolutely the best parts of these threads. Get off yer phone and catch the screaming liner in your mouth like a man would!
   99. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 26, 2019 at 09:44 AM (#5865161)
snapper there's like 100 threads in the last year alone in which you describe in endless detail how little you like going to baseball games. Let's not pretend anything has changed here because of some netting.

I go to a couple of games a year for my nephews. I won't sit behind netting. So, the the extent the Yankees make all the lower deck netted, they're going to sell cheaper seats to me for those 2 games.
   100. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 26, 2019 at 09:45 AM (#5865162)

More importantly, what could possibly make you think your comment was appropriate? There are plenty of good ways to mock Nieporent's position here without resorting to cheap, mean-spirited ad-hominems.


co-signed

Barry's comments are way out of line.
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