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Thursday, April 18, 2019

White Sox-Royals benches clear, managers go after each other | The Kansas City Star

Why can’t we all just get along?

Jim Furtado Posted: April 18, 2019 at 08:11 AM | 69 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: royals, tim anderson

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   1. Dolf Lucky Posted: April 18, 2019 at 08:23 AM (#5833224)
Anderson handles this about as well as one could reasonably expect and he still got tossed. Don't get it...
   2. asinwreck Posted: April 18, 2019 at 08:24 AM (#5833225)
Joe West. Shocking.
   3. Jose is Absurdly Unemployed Posted: April 18, 2019 at 08:52 AM (#5833229)
Yeah, I feel like something is left out of that video because there wasn't anything even remotely approaching ejection behavior from Anderson.
   4. . Posted: April 18, 2019 at 09:21 AM (#5833230)
Not sure where I come out on all this but it's pretty clear empirically that the Guild of Major League Base Ball Pitchers is very much not on board with the "Let the Kids Play" campaign. I do know that if something is going to be imposed unwillingly on the Guild, I'd much prefer it be a pitch clock than LTKP.
   5. dejarouehg Posted: April 18, 2019 at 10:01 AM (#5833233)
I thought he deserved to be hit and it was done the right way.............right on the butt. His throwing a missile across the catcher to his dugout crossed a line. Had his dugout been on the first base side, I'd think it was over-the-top but not as offensive. And, I don't think anyone should have been thrown out. The players handled it, no one got hurt and then everyone moves on.....except the idiot crew chief.

I think they should implement a rule that players have to stay in bullpens, dugouts and at their positions, other than catcher, and violators are suspended for 10 games, including pay. I would let each team's 1b coach come out to help break up a skirmish. (They generally don't make a lot so if they do anything fine-worthy, it's more likely to have an impact on them.) The rule has worked well in the NBA.
   6. I am Ted F'ing Williams Posted: April 18, 2019 at 10:02 AM (#5833234)
Everything seemed to calm down with no ejections forthcoming until Renteria started walking toward the KC dugout (probably because somebody yelled something at him). Before that nobody had been ejected. Joe West tried to keep Renteria from going to the KC dugout then Renteria started going nuts and then Anderson started going nuts, Abreu tried holding Anderson back around the first base bag. I thought Joe West handled this very well, obviously anyone being ejected is going to feel otherwise. You have to screw up royally to get me to write anything nice about Joe West.

The Royals know they can get under Tim Anderson's skin. This didn't just start when he hit a two-run homer. The Royals were probably ecstatic when he flipped the bat, that means he's ripe for getting his hot buttons pushed. You have to know when to get fired up and when to let stuff roll off your back. The Royals were jawing at him the moment he flipped his bat, and they laughed at him when he booted the double play grounder the very next inning. He started losing control of his emotions and he wound up hurting his team.
   7. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: April 18, 2019 at 10:20 AM (#5833239)
The Royals know they can get under Tim Anderson's skin. This didn't just start when he hit a two-run homer. The Royals were probably ecstatic when he flipped the bat, that means he's ripe for getting his hot buttons pushed. You have to know when to get fired up and when to let stuff roll off your back. The Royals were jawing at him the moment he flipped his bat, and they laughed at him when he booted the double play grounder the very next inning. He started losing control of his emotions and he wound up hurting his team.

That's a very interesting interpretation considering the history. So it was all part of their plan yesterday to give up a home run to him, so he'd celebrate, so they could then jaw at him and bean him? I also disagree with your categorizing Anderson going nuts, and do think the reason West ejected him had nothing to do with yesterday.

I thought he deserved to be hit and it was done the right way.

There is no right way, period. Pitchers and teams who plunk guys after HRs, regardless of celebrations, are cowards and sore losers. Full stop.
   8. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: April 18, 2019 at 11:17 AM (#5833256)
I think they should implement a rule that players have to stay in bullpens, dugouts and at their positions, other than catcher, and violators are suspended for 10 games, including pay.
"I didn't leave my position, I was just shifting!!"
   9. The elusive Robert Denby Posted: April 18, 2019 at 11:37 AM (#5833263)
There was reporting that Renteria moved toward the Royals players and told them to get off the field. Yost later said something like, "no one tells my players what to do. I'll get them off the field" and that started up the confrontation again, with Yost pushing Renteria back toward the Sox dugout.
   10. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: April 18, 2019 at 12:02 PM (#5833269)
There was reporting that Renteria moved toward the Royals players and told them to get off the field. Yost later said something like, "no one tells my players what to do. I'll get them off the field" and that started up the confrontation again, with Yost pushing Renteria back toward the Sox dugout.
The adults in the room, indeed.
   11. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: April 18, 2019 at 12:11 PM (#5833272)
His throwing a missile across the catcher to his dugout crossed a line.


Eh? Anderson was on the plate, and the catcher was in the normal catcher's spot behind the plate. How was the bat 'a missile across the catcher'? So the reliever was "sticking up" for Anderson showing the catcher up? Or are you suggesting Anderson *almost* hit the catcher with the bat (but in reality the bat was no where close to the catcher), which could have injured him, and to get even? the Royals should hit Anderson, an action much more likely to cause injury?
   12. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: April 18, 2019 at 01:25 PM (#5833286)

CC Sabathia was on ESPN this morning and basically said he loved the celebrating, baseball is supposed to be fun, "Let the Kids Play", and if you don't want a batter showing you up, get him out.
   13. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: April 18, 2019 at 01:33 PM (#5833290)
CC Sabathia was on ESPN this morning and basically said he loved the celebrating,
I dunno, it seems kind of disingenuous to me that all of this stuff is getting framed as people being either for or against "celebrating." That conflates a lot of different behaviors under one somewhat loaded term. When I think of "celebrating," I think of something like Joe Carter's reaction to his World Series-winning home run. Jumping for joy and whatnot. This is something...quite different than that, in terms of both the action(s) and the situation.
   14. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 18, 2019 at 01:40 PM (#5833292)
CC Sabathia was on ESPN this morning and basically said he loved the celebrating, baseball is supposed to be fun, "Let the Kids Play", and if you don't want a batter showing you up, get him out.

Didn't he famously nail a batter in his last start last year, and put at risk an IP bonus? I believe the Yankees paid it anyway.
   15. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: April 18, 2019 at 01:42 PM (#5833294)

I dunno, it seems kind of disingenuous to me that all of this stuff is getting framed as people being either for or against "celebrating."

Well, he was asked about this specific situation and said he had no problem with what Anderson did. The host pressed him a little bit and he seemed to acknowledge that there's a limit to how far players should go, but his overall view was that people need to lighten up. This was after Sabathia admitted that he was the one who brought the fog machine to the Yankees clubhouse (and Aaron Judge brought the strobe light) to celebrate their win over the Red Sox last night.
   16. SoSH U at work Posted: April 18, 2019 at 01:42 PM (#5833295)
I dunno, it seems kind of disingenuous to me that all of this stuff is getting framed as people being either for or against "celebrating." That conflates a lot of different behaviors under one somewhat loaded term. When I think of "celebrating," I think of something like Joe Carter's reaction to his World Series-winning home run. Jumping for joy and whatnot. This is something...quite different than that, in terms of both the action(s) and the situation.


Agreed. Love or hate Jose Bautista's bat throw against the Rangers, it sure as hell wasn't a celebratory gesture.

I've long said, I like reactions that are inclusive, spontaneous and joyful. I don't like ones that are narcissistic, angry or choreographed. I wouldn't throw at a guy under either circumstance, but I'm also not going to pretend that Joey Bats' toss of (misdirected) anger was a thing to venerate.

The homer itself, on the other hand, was pretty badass.

   17. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: April 18, 2019 at 01:51 PM (#5833299)
Didn't he famously nail a batter in his last start last year, and put at risk an IP bonus? I believe the Yankees paid it anyway.

Yes, but that was in retaliation for the Rays almost hitting someone on the Yankees, not for celebrating.

After Rays pitcher Andrew Kittridge threw a pitch that nearly hit Yankees catcher Austin Romine in the head in the top of the sixth, Sabathia hit Rays catcher Jesus Sucre in the leg in the bottom of the frame.
   18. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: April 18, 2019 at 01:56 PM (#5833300)
I've long said, I like reactions that are inclusive, spontaneous and joyful. I don't like ones that are narcissistic, angry or choreographed. I wouldn't throw at a guy under either circumstance, but I'm also not going to pretend that Joey Bats' toss of (misdirected) anger was a thing to venerate.
Yeah, I think I'll co-sign this. And also add "appropriate to the situation." There's really nothing much to "celebrate" on a routine early-inning homer.
   19. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: April 18, 2019 at 02:00 PM (#5833303)
This was after Sabathia admitted that he was the one who brought the fog machine to the Yankees clubhouse (and Aaron Judge brought the strobe light) to celebrate their win over the Red Sox last night.
With the caveat that anything done by anyone associated with the Yankees in inherently execrable, this is awesome. It's stupid and ridiculous and jovial and therefore beautiful.
   20. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 18, 2019 at 02:01 PM (#5833304)
Didn't he famously nail a batter in his last start last year, and put at risk an IP bonus?


It's not inconsistent with a "baseball should be fun" message if he enjoyed drilling the guy.
   21. Howie Menckel Posted: April 18, 2019 at 02:02 PM (#5833306)
that was in retaliation for the Rays almost hitting someone on the Yankees, not for celebrating.

which was in retaliation for the Yankees ACTUALLY hitting two batters, including one a day earlier, "when Kevin Kiermaier suffered a hairline fracture when a slider from Yankees starter Masahiro Tanaka hit his right foot."

(ok, throwing at someone's foot would be a new one on me.)

CC had "fun" with this, too, demonstrating proper technique for the youngsters watching, per espn.com:

"As he was walking off the mound following the ejection, Sabathia turned toward the Rays dugout, pointed and shouted: "That was for you, b----." It was unclear toward whom specifically he was directing his anger. Then, feet from the Yankees' dugout, Sabathia made a motion toward his crotch as he glanced back at the Rays dugout.

Cameras caught some surprised Tampa Bay players. Rays pitcher Blake Snell was seen motioning with his hands and saying: "It's 11-0. Why?"
   22. Rusty Priske Posted: April 18, 2019 at 02:11 PM (#5833308)
This looked pretty typical to me.

The batter did nothing wrong. The pitcher tried to 'save face' over nothing. Other people made it into a bigger deal than it needed to be (including two managers, which is the only thing that made this incident a little more unique).
   23. jmurph Posted: April 18, 2019 at 02:28 PM (#5833311)
(including two managers, which is the only thing that made this incident a little more unique).

I don't like the "both sides" framing on the managers; one of them was mad his player was thrown at for hitting a homerun. His reaction seems fair!
   24. RoyalFlush Posted: April 18, 2019 at 02:32 PM (#5833313)
There is no right way, period. Pitchers and teams who plunk guys after HRs, regardless of celebrations, are cowards and sore losers. Full stop.


I find this kind of "outrage" and name calling the worst part of any of these situations. No one playing pro ball is above any of this garbage - these are only the most recent actors. To act as if there is some sort of inherent character flaw in some, while not in others, ignores reality.
   25. jmurph Posted: April 18, 2019 at 02:42 PM (#5833315)
I find this kind of "outrage" and name calling the worst part of any of these situations. No one playing pro ball is above any of this garbage - these are only the most recent actors. To act as if there is some sort of inherent character flaw in some, while not in others, ignores reality.

So the worst part of a sore loser throwing a baseball at a guy who hit a bomb off of him is calling the sore loser a sore loser? Not the throwing of the baseball at the guy who hit the bomb?

Just clarifying.
   26. RoyalFlush Posted: April 18, 2019 at 02:48 PM (#5833320)
So the worst part of a sore loser throwing a baseball at a guy who hit a bomb off of him is calling the sore loser a sore loser? Not the throwing of the baseball at the guy who hit the bomb?

Just clarifying.


Yes. Ballplayers are all the same. They all do the same things. And then when fans chime in to say "not my guy - we have the moral high ground" - it's absolutely the worst part. 100%.
   27. Howie Menckel Posted: April 18, 2019 at 02:57 PM (#5833322)
There is no right way, period. Pitchers and teams who plunk guys after HRs, regardless of celebrations, are cowards and sore losers. Full stop.

sometimes there really IS a slippery slope.

it's not that difficult to say that THIS celebration didn't deserve a plunking.

it's also just as easy for us to agree - I assume - that there is a line somewhere that a batter shouldn't cross while celebrating.

and unless one is prepared to offer an opinion on that, all that bluster is... just that.

unless, I suppose, there IS no line. which would be interesting.
   28. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: April 18, 2019 at 02:59 PM (#5833324)
The worst part? Really? Ok.

Call it a character flaw if you want, but it's premeditated and it's done knowing that it never ends anything, it only escalates. I also disagree that no one is above this, I think there are plenty of people who are and have spoken out about it. I think it's a problem that it's generally accepted and basically condoned by MLB; if they didn't want it to happen any more, punishments would be a lot more punitive.

EDIT: I'm not a White Sox fan, so there is no fandom involved. It's stupid and cowardly when anyone does it.
   29. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: April 18, 2019 at 03:02 PM (#5833328)
The worst part is the guy who says the worst part is the fans who claim the high moral ground when their guy threw at the other guy who threw at their guy. 110%
   30. jmurph Posted: April 18, 2019 at 03:10 PM (#5833330)
Yes. Ballplayers are all the same. They all do the same things. And then when fans chime in to say "not my guy - we have the moral high ground" - it's absolutely the worst part. 100%.

Has a single White Sox fan commented in this thread? I'm not seeing any, but might be missing someone.
   31. jmurph Posted: April 18, 2019 at 03:11 PM (#5833332)
Yes. Ballplayers are all the same. They all do the same things.

Also you appear to be very confused on the facts, as in this particular example, one guy hit a homerun, and the other guy threw a baseball at him in retaliation for said homerun. Very different things! Not the same.
   32. RoyalFlush Posted: April 18, 2019 at 03:15 PM (#5833333)
I could have phrased that better than "my guy" and "we".

Obviously I'm a Royals fan. I'm not defending what Keller did. And I've certainly had problems with what some Royals have done in the past (may Ventura RIP). I just don't understand the "coward"/"loser" arguments that seem to riddle this debate. All players are - or have been - part of garbage like this. To assign a character flaw to some guys, while understanding that every player acts like this, just seems like virtue signalling, for lack of a better term.
   33. RoyalFlush Posted: April 18, 2019 at 03:19 PM (#5833337)
Also you appear to be very confused on the facts, as in this particular example, one guy hit a homerun, and the other guy threw a baseball at him in retaliation for said homerun. Very different things! Not the same.


Thank you for proving me correct. Call me stupid; call Keller a coward - you seem to have everyone figured out.
   34. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: April 18, 2019 at 03:20 PM (#5833339)
CountOnAG @Amir_Garrett 19h19 hours ago

My take. He batflips cool. You take it to the chin and wear it. But next time you face him. Strike him out, and do whatever you gotta do. Fist pump, moonwalk, cartwheel. Do whatever. I’m all for it. Both ways. lol

CountOnAG @Amir_Garrett 19h19 hours ago

So last tweet on that. So anyone who faces me and hits a bomb. I expect you to admire your work lol.. but just remember when I get you back I will admire mine as well... ok I’m done.. lol


Obviously I'm a Royals fan.

Got it. You're biased, therefore so is everyone else.

Virtue signaling implies a lack of conviction or the idea that someone is only saying something to score some sort of imaginary point. You disagree with what I think, so clearly I'm not sincere in my thinking. If it'll make you feel better, I'll change my coward and sore loser comments to say the acts are "cowardly" and "sore loserly", but somehow I don't think you really care about that difference.
   35. jmurph Posted: April 18, 2019 at 03:23 PM (#5833341)
Thank you for proving me correct. Call me stupid; call Keller a coward - you seem to have everyone figured out.

Yeah I didn't say either of those things.
   36. RoyalFlush Posted: April 18, 2019 at 03:26 PM (#5833343)
Yeah I didn't say either of those things.


You seem to be confused.
   37. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: April 18, 2019 at 04:52 PM (#5833375)

(including two managers, which is the only thing that made this incident a little more unique).

I don't like the "both sides" framing on the managers; one of them was mad his player was thrown at for hitting a homerun. His reaction seems fair!


I believe Renteria was actually more concerned that Anderson was surrounded by Royals who came out of the dugout, so he was yelling at them to get back in the dugout, and Yost confronted him, basically saying "don't you yell at my players."

Didn't Anderson have an incident last year with Marcus Stroman where Anderson said he felt disrespected? I don't think the Royals should have hit him, but he does seem to be a bit of a jerk.
   38. Howie Menckel Posted: April 18, 2019 at 07:08 PM (#5833392)
certified account of a certain Blue Jays OF


Randal Grichuk
‏Verified account @RGrich15
Apr 17

Guys are getting a little excessive on pimping HRs, on meaningless HRs too. Act like you have done it before, one time.
1,969 replies 1,331 retweets 9,686 likes
   39. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 18, 2019 at 07:12 PM (#5833393)
T A 7
Verified account@TimAnderson7

Replying to @RGrich15
Put a name on so we can see who you talking bout bra
   40. Jay Seaver Posted: April 18, 2019 at 08:15 PM (#5833404)
I just don't understand the "coward"/"loser" arguments that seem to riddle this debate. All players are - or have been - part of garbage like this.


How about if we just say its "cowardly", thuggish, etc.? Sure, maybe the pitcher who throws at a hitter is not a full-time coward, but in that moment, the action is worth condemning, and the player isn't being his best self.

And, honestly, I don't see the point of trying to draw a line on where it's supposedly okay. You make an attempt to hurt someone, whether throwing at them or spiking them or whatever, you're being lousy.
   41. Howie Menckel Posted: April 18, 2019 at 10:26 PM (#5833442)
You make an attempt to hurt someone, whether throwing at them or spiking them or whatever, you're being lousy.

there's quite a broad range you're talking about here.

the "beanball" - you throw at a guy's head and don't care if you hit him - is universally despised.

the "hit him in the rear" and "throw way behind his rear to let everyone know that you think the hitter is a dick" are not nearly the same things.

the same goes for the routine bat flips and its accelerated versions.

there can't be a legit debate until the "line" is drawn on what hitters can do before they can expect retaliation.

and if you want to say that a punch in the face is more appropriate than a pitch well beyond a guy's backside, ok, I guess.

but this pretense of "the hitter can do anything and should never face any consequences in any circumstances" is disingenuous.

if you want to say, "at THIS level of taunting, I want the batter immediately ejected and suspended, but no one should throw at the guy" - that's an option, too. and maybe that's where the discussion should go.
   42. Jay Seaver Posted: April 19, 2019 at 01:38 AM (#5833464)
and if you want to say that a punch in the face is more appropriate than a pitch well beyond a guy's backside, ok, I guess.


That is not at all what I said or meant, and I think it would be pretty easy to infer that fighting is obviously worse than the rest. I don't really think anything calculated to cause another player potential injury should more be accepted on the ballfield than it would be in any other environment. Getting annoyed by someone else being demonstrative is no excuse to resort to violence except in the most extreme edge cases, and even then, I think a clear line beats trying to parse just what level of being rude deserves what size bruise.
   43. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: April 19, 2019 at 10:58 AM (#5833487)
Has anyone ever gotten seriously hurt from an intentional plunking? I was thinking there has to be a case, but I can't recall one.
   44. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: April 19, 2019 at 11:12 AM (#5833490)
I can't come up with an example either. There was the time Roger Clemens hit Piazza in the head. Some people figured that Clemens was such a good pitcher that it had to be intentional, but not everyone.

Of course the intentional plunking may then lead to a fight which injures someone else, e.g. Mike Morse after Bryce Harper got hit with a pitch. Or when Zack Greinke hit Carlos Quentin who then ran over and tackled Greinke breaking his collarbone.
   45. Hysterical & Useless Posted: April 19, 2019 at 11:29 AM (#5833500)
Has anyone ever gotten seriously hurt from an intentional plunking?


I believe Carl Mays was generally considered to be not the nicest chap and not at all averse to throwing at hitters. Whether he was in fact throwing at Ray Chapman probably can't be known now. But we are free to speculate.
   46. Dog on the sidewalk has an ugly bracelet Posted: April 19, 2019 at 11:37 AM (#5833505)
Pedro admitted to intentionally hitting Jeter with a pitch that ended up sending him to the hospital. But I presume we can all agree that Pedro can do whatever he wants and that Jeter had it coming.
   47. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: April 19, 2019 at 11:43 AM (#5833508)
Two days later, American League President Gene Budig handed out suspensions to five players; three Yankees and two Orioles. Darryl Strawberry (3 games), Graeme Lloyd (3 games), and Alan Mills (3 games) and Jeff Nelson (2 games). Armando Benitez received the largest suspension: eight games.

Gene Budig released a statement explaining his decision and said this about Benitez hitting Martinez: “The severity of the discipline reflects the gravity of the offenses. Mr. Benitez not only intentionally threw at Martinez, but the location of the pitch was extremely dangerous and could have seriously injured the player.”


Tino Martinez didn't go on the DL after this "extremely dangerous" incident but missed 8 of the next 9 games with a "large bone bruise".
   48. SoSH U at work Posted: April 19, 2019 at 12:03 PM (#5833512)
I'm sure it's happened on the intentional type, but most of the HBPs that led to major injuries that I recall were on ones that were perceived as unintentional (Bagwell, Stanton, Heyward).

   49. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: April 19, 2019 at 12:20 PM (#5833515)
Intentional ones are always supposed to hit in the thigh, hip or lower back, am I right?

I swear there was an incident where some guy like Joe Crede who had constant back problems anyway twisted his back getting intentionally plunked and was out for a long time. No idea who it was.
   50. . Posted: April 19, 2019 at 12:56 PM (#5833526)
Technically and perhaps pedantically, it's illegal and tortuous to intentionally throw a baseball at another human with the intent to hit said human with it -- even in a baseball game. It's beyond the scope of the consent given to physical contact by MLB players (see, e.g., the Dale Hackbart case in which spearing another pro football player after a play was held to be tortuous conduct and the handful/myriad of hockey prosecutions/lawsuits based on excessive stickwork). For essentially this reason, I could never affirmatively support intentionally hitting another human, even an elite hitter, with a baseball at 90 MPH-plus.
   51. Howie Menckel Posted: April 19, 2019 at 02:02 PM (#5833537)
I'm fine with that - but wouldn't ejection in the most extreme 'celebration taunts' be the way to go, then? you can't throw at a guy that day if he's not even playing anymore.

even if you don't think you've ever seen a case worthy of ejection, we seem to be headed in that direction. batters aren't getting any 'tamer.'
   52. Jay Seaver Posted: April 19, 2019 at 02:04 PM (#5833538)
Pedro admitted to intentionally hitting Jeter with a pitch that ended up sending him to the hospital. But I presume we can all agree that Pedro can do whatever he wants and that Jeter had it coming.


I don't recall Pedro saying it was intentional at the time, but wasn't Jeter (and Alfonso Soriano in the same game) being sent to the hospital pretty much grandstanding on the part of Steinbrenner as well? Doesn't make it okay, of course, just illustrates what sort of stupidity grows around this stuff.

I suspect that the relatively low numbers of serious injuries on intentional HBPs is tied from them often being clear enough for someone to get out of the way, like how New York sports radio types would ask why David Ortiz wasn't plunked more often without noticing that for a big guy, he's pretty good at getting out of the way because he really doesn't like getting hit. That doesn't make it any more reckless and somehow less unsportsmanlike than tossing a bat.
   53. jmurph Posted: April 19, 2019 at 02:16 PM (#5833539)
extreme 'celebration taunts'

What does this even mean? And you're seriously proposing tossing people for celebrating?
   54. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: April 19, 2019 at 02:20 PM (#5833540)
What does this even mean? And you're seriously proposing tossing people for celebrating?
See 13. "Celebration taunts" are not the same thing as celebrating.
   55. . Posted: April 19, 2019 at 03:04 PM (#5833550)
Other sports penalize players for taunting. Taunting is unsportsmanlike and all the other sports penalize unsportsmanlike conduct. Taunting can lead to ejection in other sports. For example, it's a technical foul in basketball and two technical fouls is ejection.
   56. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: April 19, 2019 at 03:06 PM (#5833554)
Keller suspended 5 games. Renteria suspended 1 game for "aggressive" actions. Anderson suspended 1 game for calling Keller a "weak-ass f---ing n-word", according to Jeff Passan. I don't think he actually said "n-word."
   57. . Posted: April 19, 2019 at 03:10 PM (#5833557)
Anderson suspended 1 game for calling Keller a "weak-ass f---ing n-word"


Thus proving definitively the grammatical repurposing of the word. It's always and everywhere an insult and its intent is to insult. Maybe it's only to racially insult in certain circumstances, but it's an insult in virtually all circumstances.
   58. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: April 19, 2019 at 03:11 PM (#5833558)
Thus proving definitively the grammatical repurposing of the word.
Or perhaps explaining Anderson's poor batting eye.
   59. . Posted: April 19, 2019 at 03:22 PM (#5833565)
Has an African-American in sports ever been suspended or even disciplined for calling another player or participant a [n-word]?
   60. . Posted: April 19, 2019 at 03:33 PM (#5833570)
Would Anderson have gotten suspended for saying the same thing to a black guy?
   61. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: April 19, 2019 at 03:50 PM (#5833575)
Yikes
   62. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: April 19, 2019 at 03:55 PM (#5833576)
Other sports penalize players for taunting.

Other sports are stupid, although Manfred is doing his best to catch up to them.
   63. . Posted: April 19, 2019 at 04:08 PM (#5833584)
Other sports are stupid, although Manfred is doing his best to catch up to them.


Maybe, although I'd submit that it's a bad sign from a purely business perspective if you're at the point where you believe you have to actively encourage taunting to win/keep fans. Forget about substance, "Let the Kids Play" very well could be a business canary in the coal mine.

Is there a market for a the arcadish style baseball of dongs, heat, whiffs, bat flips, and "swag" -- the real life baseball equivalent of NBA Jam? Not sure, but for better or worse (*), we're going to see.

(*) Worse, IMHO. No one will ever convince me that the game from around 1975-92, with a lot of speed and balls in play and daring on the basepaths and big name starting pitchers and significant Af-Am participation, updated with continuing general athletic improvement and more appealing physical plant, wouldn't be a significantly bigger seller than what the sport has become.
   64. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: April 19, 2019 at 04:12 PM (#5833587)
there can't be a legit debate until the "line" is drawn on what hitters can do before they can expect retaliation.

This is like really easy, if you step away, and stop acting like a baseball field is a magical place, where rules, laws, and common sense are suspended.

Here is the full list of actions, that justify a violent response:
1. Actual Violence, or a credible threat of actual violence
2. Genuine "Fighting Words"
3. No, that's it, it's literally just 1 and 2

Doing something that "showed someone up" or "taunted" them, or whatever bs, is not grounds for violent retaliation. It would literally not be acceptable behaviour anywhere else. Being pissed off at someone does not entitle you to attempt to physically harm them.
I was pissed off at my sister over something she did yesterday. Guess what I did not do? Throw a 95mph rock at her.

You are entitled to be pissed off, if you think a hitter showed you up, or celebrated too much, or whatever. You aren't entitled to hurt them over it.
   65. . Posted: April 19, 2019 at 04:16 PM (#5833588)
You are entitled to be pissed off, if you think a hitter showed you up, or celebrated too much, or whatever. You aren't entitled to hurt them over it.


True -- but baseball has no penalty for taunting, thus the default to self-help. Doesn't justify the self-help, by any means. And now the sport is actively and explicitly encouraging the taunting. Not remotely a good look. And not really a look the sport's lawyers should be real thrilled about. If I'm hitting right after a "kid" who, as actively encouraged and marketed, "played" a bit too much and the pitcher who didn't take real well to the playing hits me in the face with a pitch and harms my career ... I'm not real happy.
   66. Eddo Posted: April 19, 2019 at 04:37 PM (#5833593)
Other sports penalize players for taunting.

This is true, but taunting is not really what Anderson did.

In the NFL, after you score a touchdown, you can do a little dance or spike the ball vehemently. You can't waggle the ball at a pursuing defender as you cross the line, or run right up to a defender after scoring and say, "You like that, loser?" (For a while the league did penalize both types of action, but more recently came to their senses and allowed celebrations again.)

Anderson's actions were much closer to the former than the latter.

I think punishments for actual taunting would actually go a long way towards getting rid of retaliatory pitches, so I'd be in favor of it.
   67. NJ in NY (Now with Big Girl!) Posted: April 19, 2019 at 04:38 PM (#5833594)
I can’t tell if [57] is sarcasm but suspending Miller for saying nigga is so ####### stupid.
   68. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: April 19, 2019 at 04:57 PM (#5833600)
Anderson isn't appealing his suspension either. I'm curious why not.
   69. Lindor Truffles Posted: April 19, 2019 at 07:44 PM (#5833629)
Has an African-American in sports ever been suspended or even disciplined for calling another player or participant a [n-word]?

Andrew Harrison probably would’ve caught a suspension after dropping the n-bomb on Frank Kaminsky III. He declared for the NBA Draft instead.

Kaminsky probably took it as “game recognize game”. I don’t think Anderson meant it the same way.

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