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They'll probably sign Torii Hunter and then Aaron Rowand, just to be safe.
Looks like a win for LAA to me.
So, is this the start of the Wood Era?
Sure hope so.
Same. IIRC.
Have to think the Angels are clearing space for Cabrera or Tejada, although I can't imagine they can get Cabrera without Wood...are they comfortable with Aybar?
Lackey
Escobar
Weaver
Garland
Santana
Saunders
Deepest rotation in the league? I think so. Only Boston has an argument. I wonder if this means one or two of those young arms goes to Florida for Cabrera.
God I hope not. He's got "next Neifi Perez" written all over him.
This is a shock. I didn't even think the Angels would consider dealing Cabrera. Looks like Reagins is going to put his stamp on this franchise, and after seeing this I have to think its just the start.
For 2008 SS the safe choice is Maicer Izturis. Wood is an option if he can show he's improved drastically either in spring or by hitting .330/.400/.650 in Salt Lake. Aybar? Eh. Longshot might be Chone Figgins if they trade for Miggy, but that could be real ugly for a groundballer like Garland.
It does seem like a few of his trades that looked terrible at the time turned out ok. A lot of people freaked out when he traded Jeremy Reed and Mike Morse, but that deal doesn't seem too bad now, and....ok I can't really think of another one. The Rowand for Thome deal didn't turn out as bad as I thought it would?
Sure hope so.
You must hate the Angels. Wood's MLE was something like .210/.270/.400 this year. He's highly overrated, IMO - I think there's a reasonable chance he's never even a ML average SS (or 3B, or wherever he ends up).
Still, you have to like this deal for the Angels. They still won't win anything but the AL West without another hitter, but it never hurts to add a #3 starter at that price.
Unless Uribe gets traded for a league average starting pitcher, it still doesn't look good for the Sox.
Garland's an odd duck in that he keeps getting results despite not striking anyone out. But this isn't a fluke. Kid has done it for several years now. Put him on a pretty solid Angels team with Sciosia working his pitcher "thingie" and Garland may actually get BETTER.
Sure seems like a good deal for the Angels.
Tejada is $12MM per, over the next two years, right?
EDIT: I could live with that package for Tejada.
If the White Sox are paying Cabrera only 6 million in 2008, that's not a bad deal.
That's what I'm thinking/hoping. All in all, Garland replacing Santana and Tejada replacing Cabrera would be a pretty nice move for the Angels. Even in a down year Tejada had 15 points of OPS+ on Cabrera, and Garland is a huge upgrade on Santana.
If he can't, they have a hole at 3B too.
edit: .
agreed.
a couple years in Baltimore would depress anybody.
Put Miguel on a winner and he still has the talent to compete for an MVP.
Cabrera is due 10 million in 2008, 9 million salary, plus 1 million bonus. So he'll be making 10. Garland Makes 12. And Chicago is sending money to the Angels. So the Angels are not likely to be paying any more for Garland than they were going to have to pay Cabrera
EDIT: Oopss..my bad....per ESPN article Chicago also receives cash as part of the trade. Probably less than one million, I would guess.
The Angels' press release said that the team is sending cash to the White Sox: <a href="http://losangeles.angels.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20071119&c>link</a>. I haven't seen any reports on how much.
I would have preferred to see the Sox trade Garland for prospects and try to make a deal for Tejada themselves. (Just keeping the prospects isn't really an option given the contract extensions they gave out over the summer.)
I had forgotten that Bill Stoneman isn't the GM of the Angels any longer.
Maybe not.
EDIT: "Cabrera is due 10 million in 2008, 9 million salary, plus 1 million bonus. So he'll be making 10. Garland Makes 12. And Chicago is sending money to the Angels. So the Angels are not likely to be paying any more for Garland than they were going to have to pay Cabrera"
I think you've got this reversed, Shoewizard. Also, the signing team always pays the signing bonus, no matter how its prorated.
It doesn't matter, unless you value peripherals over results. Garland's been a good pitcher for a good while with those peripherals.
Sure hope so.
Are you an A's fan?
Honestly, I'm just confused by this whole "send a player from your team to another team and get another player back" thing.
That's the question I have. In moving to another role on the team has Stoneman completely relinquished control of personel, or does he still have a heavy hand in setting the overall team mindset? In other words, should we expect things to change for LA?
Yeah, I already corrected the part about the money going from LA to CHI......but not 100% sure about the signing bonus definitely being paid by signing team. Why wouldn't that be negotiable? Or maybe thats the money thats going to Chicago?
It's called a trade.
And yes, it is legal.
Ha!
It doesn't matter, unless you value peripherals over results. Garland's been a good pitcher for a good while with those peripherals.
Unless of course degrading peripherals are a hint that a guy is ready to implode. I know it's not always the case...but I am still scarred by Russ Ortiz.
Nope ... it'll be Garland, Santana, and Figgins to the Yankees for A-Rod in a sign-and-trade (thanks to Steve Goldman's Speaker piece for the idea). Then Adenhart and Wood to the Orioles for Tejada and Jamie Walker.
Man, I will be bummed if Tejada is still on the roster at the opening of next season.
Not as bummed as he'll be, of course.
EDIT: Answering my own question, I see that Cabrera was solidly among the type-As for this season's rankings and -- barring him completely falling off the table -- he should remain type A into next winter. That's probably not a huge concern for the Angels with Garland, on the other hand, as I imagine they'll be attempting to extend Garland.
Plus this frees up six million bucks which will come in handy to address other needs. Sorta like the Lee-for-Podsednik deal a few years ago.
It's based on two years of stats so it's highly dependent on Cabrera's 2008. He did have a good 2007 (192 hits, 35 doubles, good OBP).
i would gamble yes.
i'll even give odds.
Based on stats, he's somewhat similar to Rueter but with an extra 9 points of ERA+ somehow or Jake Westbrook with an extra 5 points of ERA+. A good bet for 1 year of league-average pitching.
Of course add 1.5 runs to that if the Angels go with Cabrera at 3B and Wood at SS. :-)
This trade makes no sense to me from the Sox perspective. Even if Garland's arm falls off and he gives nothing to the Angels, Cabrera's not a huge upgrade over Uribe. And it leaves the Sox with Buehrle and Vazquez and maybe Contreras as reliable starters. They really are looking like a 72-win team these days. And Torii Hunter isn't going to substantially improve that.
2007 Cabrera O LAA 25
2007 Jeter D NYA 24
2007 Young M TEX 23
2007 Peralta J CLE 22
2007 Guillen C DET 19
2007 Betancourt Y SEA 19
2007 Bartlett J MIN 16
2007 Tejada M BAL 15
2007 Harris B TB 13
2007 Uribe J CHA 13
Cabrera was not markedly worse in 2006, coming in 5th in that campaign with 19 WS.
Garland was Chicago's 3rd best WS starter last season:
2007 Lackey J LAA 22
2007 Vazquez J CHA 19
2007 Escobar K LAA 18
2007 Buehrle M CHA 17
2007 Garland J CHA 13
2007 Weaver J LAA 12
2007 Contreras J CHA 5
2007 Saunders J LAA 4
So in addition to this savings, the Sox are also receiving cash considerations? Of how much?
I know...I wasn't trying to make a comp....just trying to be funny.
Still....his K/BB ratio was down quite a bit from the previous 2 seasons, and his GB/FB ratio was down a bit too. I don't see him getting any better than he was last year. He either maintains or gets worse. But for a guy with one year left on his contract, this is a good get for the Angels.
K/BB
05: 2.45
06: 2.73
07: 1.72
Career 1.61
GB/FB
05: 1.44
06: 1.13
07: 1.16
Career 1.27
AROM, you do know that Garland wasn't -- or at least I think he wasn't -- a type-A based on this season's rankings, yes? Of course, you're probably right that a move to LAA will result in Garland becoming type-A, as he'll be in a much better pitcher's park with a much better team in front of (and behind) him.
I doubt Garland will implode, unless the rumors of a knot in his shoulder are true and much more serious than what's being let on. These rumors came about in the middle of 2007 and it's not like he was horrible in the second half of the season. As has been mentioned his control is very good. When he's 'on' he's got a pretty good two-seamer/sinker with a nice complimenting changeup. Any breaking ball that he has is more of a 'show-me' pitch that he'll throw to get ahead in the count, although over the years that pitch has also improved. Again -- barring injury -- I see no reason why Garland won't give the Angels 200+ innings of a 4.00-4.20 ERA.
Thanks for the years, Jon -- especially 2005 -- and best of luck in Anahiem.
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=94763
So where does Uribe go now?
"We're not done yet. We're still trying to land a big fish," Williams said.
I disagree with this...offensively Uribe has represented one of two huge/enormous/gigantic holes in the Sox offense for two seasons. His complete inability to get on base (274 OBP last season) was a problem...while Cabrera may not be a world beater offensively, he represents a pretty clear upgrade.
Or he might be the second baseman.
He had a bad 2006.
We Phillies fans are hoping Kyle Kendrick is the next Jon Garland.
Some of those folks are a little off the deep end, there. One guy says Seattle pwns Garland, which isn't exactly true if you look at the actual record instead of wishcasting.
I'm not saying the consensus view is wrong here, but I'm somewhat surprised that Jon Garland with a $12 million contract is being lauded as a great pick-up here. It's funny how perceptions can change.
While this is obviously being said at least partly tongue-in-cheek, I do see some similarity. I think this deal can't necessarily be fairly judged until we see what follows it - probably for both teams.
This is true. I overreacted with my initial comment. The Sox very well could flip Cabrera somewhere else or plug Uribe at second. I really think the Angels have something else cooking, though. The problem for the Angels is going to be that perception that Aybar, Wood and Santana aren't as good as they were though to be last year. It's weird what a calendar year will do to the prospects of prospects.
You could do worse than a Richar/Uribe platoon. Not much worse, but it's livable. Looking at Uribe's career month to month splits, I wonder if he's a white guy:
Apr .294 .342 .453
May .231 .277 .348
Jun .246 .283 .408
July .205 .256 .351
Aug .249 .282 .417
Sep .295 .332 .560
p'05 .286 .362 .476
April includes any March stats, September includes any October regular season stats, and p'05 is the postseason. He's a cold-weather player, it appears.
Like many other folks, I guess, I want to see how the rest of the dominoes fall before evaluating this trade. As a straight-up deal, I think the White Sox got the better of it, but if it clears the decks for the Angels to add a power bat on the left side of the infield, then I think they'll come out of it OK.
-- MWE
O.C. to Chicago
Alex Gonzalez to Minnesota
Pokey Reese to Kansas City
So basically, even if they don't make another deal, they lose almost nothing, and gain Garland. I like OC, and he was a great guy to have on the team, but without question, as David says, this deal makes the Angels better right now.
But...but...Dusty said...
I just fear Aybar being the starter.
I gotta say, I'm not sure if this makes the team better or worse. I think it's going to be have to be evaluated in the context of moves that are likely to come. But no matter what else we do, I'm still not going to have any clue of what to expect from Garland.
Arbitrary data points, etc. but it sure speaks to the depth of their staff.
2007 IP / ERA+
Angels
Lackey - 224 / 151
Escobar - 196 / 134
Weaver - 161 / 117
Garland - 208 / 112
Saunders - 107 / 103
Jays
Halladay- 225 / 120
McGowan - 170 / 109
Burnett - 166 / 119
Marcum - 159 / 108
Litsch - 111 / 117
Cubs
Lilly - 207 / 122
Zambrano - 216 / 118
Marquis - 192 / 101
Hill - 195 / 119
Marshall - 103 / 119
Giants - just missed
Zito - 197 / 98
Cain - 200 / 122
Lowry - 156 / 113
Lincecum - 146 / 111
Morris - 137 / 102
Despite his reputation, Garland is just a generic #4 starter.
On the Angels perhaps, but am I wrong in thinking Garland would be the second best pitcher in Seattle's rotation? I think a lot of fans have a very distorted perception as to what a fourth starter is.
Unless of course degrading peripherals are a hint that a guy is ready to implode.
His peripherals aren't degrading. His K-rate remains low. His walk rate remains very good. He gives up lots of homers, but that peripheral has actually improved in recent years.
Ortiz had bad all-around peripherals. Garland at least has very good control, and gets a lot of groundballs. His homerun rate should be very good once he's out of Comiskey II.
Looking at the last couple years though, he rally hasn't allowed that many more homers in Chicago than on the road.
DIPS. That appears to be the reason that people on the Mariners and A's blogs who like this deal, and who are making this argument, base their arguments on.
Scutaro gets traded (to make room for Murphy/Hannahan, which probably makes the team better, but remember, we're talking fun here), the Angels get better, and now that lovely Dominican funball Miguel Tejada may become an Angel. Ewwwwwww.
Some of those folks are a little off the deep end, there. One guy says Seattle pwns Garland, which isn't exactly true if you look at the actual record instead of wishcasting.
His one start against them in 2007 was a disaster (2.2 IP, 10 R, 5 ER), but he pitched well against them in 2004, 2005, and 2006.
If Kenny could somehow spin some kind of deal that involves Juan Uribe going to Tampa and Carl Crawford coming to the South Side of Chicago that could be a heck of a deal for Chicago. If this deal is the precursor to something like that, I think it'd look a LOT better. Although I can't imagine that Crawford's going to be cheap to acquire and Uribe sure as hell wouldn't be the centerpiece of that deal.
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