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Thursday, October 30, 2008

Whitey Herzog has an idea for weather issue

“To finish the radial arm maze rats might be given particular drugs (like alcohol) to see if these impair or enhance short-term memory.”

Herzog suggested that baseball already should have built a grass-field, retractable-roof stadium in a neutral Central time zone city, such as Nashville, Tenn., which could have plenty of land for such a venture. Herzog would have the whole World Series played at this venue, which ideally would seat 75,000 or 80,000 people, with an off day after Game 4.

“You could call it World Series Week,” he said by telephone Wednesday night before the Philadelphia Phillies and Tampa Bay Rays endeavored to finish in windy, frigid weather a Game 5 that was suspended two nights prior.

Herzog is well aware of the opposition for such a proposal.

“You’ve got the old school people in baseball who say that you’re taking the World Series away from the home fans and all that,” he said. “That’s one of the stupidest things I’ve ever heard. If you’re really going to be honest, the hometown fans (because of high ticket prices) don’t get to see the World Series anyway.”

...“Right now,” said Herzog, “the World Series is only the fourth most sought-after ticket. It’s behind the Super Bowl, the Masters and the Final Four. So, in that respect, you can’t say that it’s the national pastime.

Repoz Posted: October 30, 2008 at 11:23 AM | 35 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: baseball geeks, special topics

Reader Comments and Retorts

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Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. scareduck Posted: October 30, 2008 at 11:50 AM (#2999416)
Whitey Herzog is dumber than ten dogs.
   2. Athletic Supporter wants to move your money around Posted: October 30, 2008 at 12:09 PM (#2999422)
I have a better idea. We should build a giant rainblocker over every city to block out the rain.
   3. Arva Posted: October 30, 2008 at 12:10 PM (#2999424)
No, that's Tommy Lasorda. Herzog is dumber than ten dead rats.
   4. Fly should without a doubt be number !!!!! Posted: October 30, 2008 at 12:10 PM (#2999425)
Or, better yet, we could deal with one rain delay every 4 years or so.
   5. mashimaro Posted: October 30, 2008 at 12:18 PM (#2999428)
I don't like the idea of a fixed city for the WS, but I wish MLB was more open to brainstorming and not just looking for the quick cash.
   6. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: October 30, 2008 at 12:38 PM (#2999433)
“You’ve got the old school people in baseball who say that you’re taking the World Series away from the home fans and all that,” he said. “That’s one of the stupidest things I’ve ever heard. If you’re really going to be honest, the hometown fans (because of high ticket prices) don’t get to see the World Series anyway.”

Is Whitey dumber than ten Lasordas? Okay, that's harsh. But that above paragraph is just not true. Some fans don't because of the cost, but if you looked at the fans, you saw folks from all walks of life.

Really, did the 2 day rain delay really make the WS unspecial? Not here in Philly anyway, it just added to the lore. We don't get much in the way of championships and dadgummit, they don't come easy either.
   7. Jose is El Absurd Bronson Y Pollo Posted: October 30, 2008 at 12:45 PM (#2999436)
If you’re really going to be honest, the hometown fans (because of high ticket prices) don’t get to see the World Series anyway.”

I realize I'm fortunate but I consider myself a "hometown fan" and I've been to four World Series games in the last five years. The people who sat in my section didn't seem to be bandwagonners or anything like that, they seemed like the usual mix of fans.

I REALLY hate the idea of a neutral site series. Football is the only major sport that does it and the Super Bowl is a dud as often as it is any good. The problem right now with baseball is that the last five World Series have been lousy. I think it's fair to ask if the expanded playoffs are a reason for that but no one would be complaining if the Phils and Rays had gone seven games with Evan Longoria hitting a walk-off homer or striking out with the bases loaded in the bottom of the 9th.
   8. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 30, 2008 at 12:47 PM (#2999437)
This is the same garbage that Whitey was dealing out ten years ago in his book. My only surprise is that he didn't ask baseball to build a domed stadium on his pig farm and give him the concession rights.
   9. tribefan Posted: October 30, 2008 at 12:54 PM (#2999441)
Herzog suggested that baseball already should have built a grass-field, retractable-roof stadium in a neutral Central time zone city, such as Nashville, Tenn., which could have plenty of land for such a venture.

This is the silliest thing I've ever heard of. Who will pay for this giant stadium and what will they do with it for the rest of the year? Rent it out to little leagues?

If you’re really going to be honest, the hometown fans (because of high ticket prices) don’t get to see the World Series anyway.

I don't agree with this, but even if it were true, can't rich people be home town fans too?
   10. Fly should without a doubt be number !!!!! Posted: October 30, 2008 at 01:00 PM (#2999443)
Hometown fans don't get to see the World Series? I know at least 4 non-season-ticket-holders that have seen playoff games (at Fenway, even) for face value in the last couple of years. And I know a lot more die hard season ticket holders that have also seen WS and playoff games. I'm not some high-powered rich person, either.
   11. BDC Posted: October 30, 2008 at 01:04 PM (#2999446)
a grass-field, retractable-roof stadium in a neutral Central time zone city

We built it. Bring it on. And believe me, as long as the Rangers play in Arlington, this will be a neutral site for the World Series.
   12. J.C. Bradbury Posted: October 30, 2008 at 01:08 PM (#2999453)
$800 million for a stadium to host 4-7 games are year versus waiting for the weather to pass. Is this really a tough choice?
   13. Babe Adams Posted: October 30, 2008 at 01:09 PM (#2999457)
Whitey may have some eccentric views, but three years after he's dead he'll be able to out-manage anyone who posts on any board. Out-GM them, too. There's a reason why we post about him, instead of vice versa.

Game 5 was actually what the future of the World Series should be: play five innings one night, four innings plus extras the next. Including pregames, you'd have about 2 hours per night for 14 nights.
   14. jnr98 Posted: October 30, 2008 at 01:11 PM (#2999460)
It's not just taking the game from the local fans, it's the essential stealing of money from the local economies that participate in the game. Remember, it IS about the money, stupid. Why reward a neutral site city, one that doesn't have its own team and little chance of landing one?

We can cry about the fans who won't get to go see the games in person, but we all know that most of the tickets are snapped up by the corporates or are priced out of reach for mere mortals. Besides, the games start so damn late that the kids aren't there anyways. But the real reason this can't (and won't) happen is CASH.


So, what do we have to do to "fix" this? In short: nothing major.

* Stop the over-reaction. Weather happens.
* To be precise, what we need Bud to do is work with his network partners to wrest control of the start times and build in some flexibility. If rain is in the forecast, start the game earlier. It would be a hardship for the fans going to the game but that's the chance we have to take.
* Games do not have to start at 8:37pm EST when both teams are East Coast-based. Start the games at 7:05pm just like in the regular season. That puts the game end around 11pm, much more reasonable than the midnight (or later) trajectories we've been on.
* If the teams are on different coasts, then the later start could be in play to be fair to those West Coasters. But when the game is in the West, the start time should be 4:05pm LOCAL time, or 7:05 Eastern (assuming the team is in the East; adjust for Midwest as needed).
* Lastly: Stop the All-Star Game winner determines Home Field Advantage. That gimmick sucks.
   15. I am Ted F'ing Williams Posted: October 30, 2008 at 01:16 PM (#2999467)
Being from Chicago I've only experienced one local WS in my life, but every full-season ticket holder (and I think half-season ticket holders too) was presented with an offer to purchase WS tickets. But not one Bears fan I know of was contacted by the team for Super Bowl tickets - if they wanted those they were on their own.

And let's not forget that the Super Bowl and Final Four are primarily gambling events.

The fact that a makeshift 3-inning game was played in front a packed house should be looked at as a testament to what's right about baseball rather than worrying about some foreseeable minor inconvenience as major problem.

If late-season weather is that much of a problem, 4 days could be shaved off the MLB schedule by cancelling the All-Star game that nobody cares about anymore, or making it an exhibition 2 days before opening day if it's that much of a money-maker.
   16. Harris Posted: October 30, 2008 at 01:17 PM (#2999469)
* To be precise, what we need Bud to do is work with his network partners to wrest control of the start times and build in some flexibility. If rain is in the forecast, start the game earlier. It would be a hardship for the fans going to the game but that's the chance we have to take.


This is spot on. Fix this, and weather isn't an issue.
   17. Tricky Dick Posted: October 30, 2008 at 01:20 PM (#2999471)
No. 15...all of those suggestions sound reasonable to me.
   18. tribefan Posted: October 30, 2008 at 01:21 PM (#2999472)
And let's not forget that the Super Bowl and Final Four are primarily gambling events.

Yes, and thank god for that.
   19. GGC for Sale Posted: October 30, 2008 at 01:26 PM (#2999475)
Does scareduck ever say anything positive?
   20. Jose is El Absurd Bronson Y Pollo Posted: October 30, 2008 at 01:27 PM (#2999477)
I think the idea that shortening the season would have a substantial effect on the weather are misguided. Remember the northeast got POUNDED with rain the last weekend of the regular season this year (Sox/Yanks rained out for two days, Phils, Mets, squeezing games in). Living in New England my whole life the difference in the weather between late September and late October tends to be one of temperature, not precipitation. Unless we're going to play 120 game season and wrap the WS up in early-September these issues may happen once every 4 or 5 years. It's horrible for the media that have to stay in a cold city rather than a warm one for 24-48 extra hours but it really isn't that big a deal.
   21. BringBackTimTeufel Posted: October 30, 2008 at 01:37 PM (#2999483)
* To be precise, what we need Bud to do is work with his network partners to wrest control of the start times and build in some flexibility. If rain is in the forecast, start the game earlier. It would be a hardship for the fans going to the game but that's the chance we have to take.


Harder than those ticketholders (I had fans but changed it) in Tampa not knowing when a potential game 6 or 7 could be?

(I don't disagree, just pointing out the assininity of part of MLB's plan this week.)
   22. Posada Posse Posted: October 30, 2008 at 01:41 PM (#2999490)
This is the silliest thing I've ever heard of. Who will pay for this giant stadium and what will they do with it for the rest of the year? Rent it out to little leagues?


I read Whitey's book "You're Missing a Great Game" where he makes a similar neutral park proposal - if I remember correctly he said that maybe you could do a bingo parlor or something ridiculous like that with the park for the rest of the year. I stopped reading right there and have never picked up the book again.

It's also obvious from the book that Whitey was still sore about losing the 1987 World Series against Minnesota partly because the white roof of the Metrodome bothered the Cardinal players, hence the proposal for a neutral park in the World Series.
   23. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: October 30, 2008 at 01:50 PM (#2999497)
"...and what will they do with it for the rest of the year? Rent it out to little leagues?"

Two men enter, one man leaves!
   24. Cabbage Posted: October 30, 2008 at 02:19 PM (#2999506)
Is Whitey dumber than ten Lasordas?


Who you callin Whitey, Honkey?
   25. tribefan Posted: October 30, 2008 at 02:22 PM (#2999511)
#23 that's the best idea I've heard all day
   26. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: October 30, 2008 at 02:23 PM (#2999512)
Obviously the World Series site should be that ridiculous Pyramid thing in Memphis.
   27. bunyon Posted: October 30, 2008 at 02:31 PM (#2999527)
Two men enter, one man leaves!

Take it to the gay marriage thread.
   28. TerpNats Posted: October 30, 2008 at 02:39 PM (#2999535)
Obviously the World Series site should be that ridiculous Pyramid thing in Memphis.
A venue I believe is no longer used by either the Griz or the U. of Memphis.
   29. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: October 30, 2008 at 02:43 PM (#2999540)
There was an article about it in the...USA Today? I think it has been turned into a Bass Pro Shop.
   30. Justin T drives a crooked hoss Posted: October 30, 2008 at 03:37 PM (#2999613)
Does scareduck ever say anything positive?

If you're claiming he's some sort of curmudgeon who thinks the glass is always half-empty, then I'm here to tell you you're wrong mister. He was stoked that Tim Russert died.
   31. OsunaSakata Posted: October 30, 2008 at 04:51 PM (#2999709)
* Lastly: Stop the All-Star Game winner determines Home Field Advantage. That gimmick sucks.


But who were the losing and winning pitchers of the All-Star Game this year? Scott Kazmir and Brad Lidge.
   32. Gaelan Posted: October 30, 2008 at 05:12 PM (#2999748)
I don't get the handwringing. This world series was pretty good primarily because of the rain and the drama. Nothing needs to be changed except I need to be hired as an umpire.
   33. Shooty is obsessed with the latest hoodie Posted: October 30, 2008 at 05:17 PM (#2999752)
Whitey is great, but I hate the neutral WS site idea. His book was a lot of fun to read, BTW.
   34. phredbird Posted: October 30, 2008 at 05:28 PM (#2999773)
his book is a fun read, but his ideas are dumb. and he is starting to get bob feller syndrome.
   35. cardsfanboy Posted: November 01, 2008 at 07:14 PM (#3001031)
I liked a few of his ideas from his book, but this was not one of them. As mentioned it was obvious he was bitter about the Twins stadium (and in other suggestions about the Denkinger call)

13. Arnold Rothstein Posted: October 30, 2008 at 09:09 AM (#2999457)

Whitey may have some eccentric views, but three years after he's dead he'll be able to out-manage anyone who posts on any board. Out-GM them, too. There's a reason why we post about him, instead of vice versa.


probably, and he'll still be inferior dead versions to Bobby Cox, TLR, Sparky Anderson, among a host of others, and he'll still blame every failure on someone else.


I have to agree that people are making a bigger deal out of this than it ever was.

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