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Thursday, November 02, 2017

Who belongs on the Houston Astros All-Time Team?

From 1962 to now: these are the greatest Astros of all-time. (Colt .45s too)

This team has very strong starting pitching, excellent speed in the lineup, and a logjam at second base (where do you play Biggio?). The Astros still haven’t had a great catcher or third baseman.

No longer interested in this website Posted: November 02, 2017 at 07:11 PM | 34 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: craig biggio, houston astros, jeff bagwell, jose altuve, nolan ryan, roy oswalt

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   1. stevegamer Posted: November 03, 2017 at 01:48 AM (#5570356)
Hmm, team needs a catcher, Biggio has 428 games caught. Seems like a solution.
   2. Jay Z Posted: November 03, 2017 at 02:28 AM (#5570359)
Hmm, team needs a catcher, Biggio has 428 games caught. Seems like a solution.


No love for Skip Jutze? How about Luis Pujols?
   3. RMc Has Bizarre Ideas to Fix Baseball Posted: November 03, 2017 at 06:45 AM (#5570370)
Don't forget Jay Dahl.
   4. bunyon Posted: November 03, 2017 at 08:28 AM (#5570379)
I'm shocked to find no current relievers on this list.
   5. Morty Causa Posted: November 03, 2017 at 08:30 AM (#5570381)
Nice that they give Dickie Thon a little love. Playing in an awful hitter's park, he was just entering his own and more when he suffered the career-shattering beaning.
   6. stanmvp48 Posted: November 03, 2017 at 08:46 AM (#5570385)
If I remember correctly, Thon had a year where he hit 16 out of 20 home runs on the road. I believe Cruz had a year where he hit 12 of 12 on the road.
   7. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: November 03, 2017 at 09:29 AM (#5570404)
Hmm, team needs a catcher, Biggio has 428 games caught. Seems like a solution.

No love for Skip Jutze? How about Luis Pujols?


I lean toward Tony Eusebio, just because I had him on a couple of fantasy teams.
   8. stanmvp48 Posted: November 03, 2017 at 09:34 AM (#5570408)
Dave Adlesh, John Bateman.
   9. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 03, 2017 at 11:02 AM (#5570485)
He didn't play with Houston long enough to make this roster, but if there were a "26th man" equivalent to a basketball lineup's "6th man", I'd like to see it awarded to Le Grand Orange. I skipped my freshman orientation in 1962 to see the Durham Bulls play Kinston in the final game of the 1962 Carolina League playoffs, and the 18-year old Rusty Staub was by far the best player on that year's Bulls' team, on a straight line to the Colt .45s the very next year.
   10. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: November 03, 2017 at 11:14 AM (#5570500)
One of the Strat projects I'd like to run eventually is an alternate version history of the Astros franchise where they don't trade Joe Morgan et al. in that fateful deal with the Reds.
   11. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: November 03, 2017 at 11:29 AM (#5570519)
I haven't read TFA, but here would be my team, off the top of my head, as a vicarious Astro-watcher...

C Alan Ashby
1B Jeff Bagwell
2B Craig Biggio
SS Carlos Correia
3B Doug Rader
OF Cesar Cedeno
OF Jimmy Wynn
OF Rusty Staub
SP Nolan Ryan
SP J.R. Richard
SP Larry Dierker
SP Don Wilson
SP Mike Scott
CL Dave Smith
Bench Joe Morgan
Bench Enos Cabell
Bench Jose Altuve
Bench Jose Cruz
Bench George Springer
Bench 1B Bob Watson

and of course, Jim Bouton & Charlie Kerfeld out of the 'pen ;)
   12. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: November 03, 2017 at 11:47 AM (#5570542)
CL Dave Smith


Not Wagner? Oswalt probably deserves some recognition somewhere, too.

Trivia Time: who is the Astros all-time leader in Wins? It's someone who has not yet been named on this page.
   13. Hysterical & Useless Posted: November 03, 2017 at 11:54 AM (#5570552)
Oh come on, catcher has gotta be Brad Ausmus, hands down. For Lisa. It's the least they can do.
   14. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: November 03, 2017 at 11:58 AM (#5570557)
Trivia Time: who is the Astros all-time leader in Wins? It's someone who has not yet been named on this page.

I thought it was Dierker, but..Shane Reynolds?
   15. SoSH U at work Posted: November 03, 2017 at 12:04 PM (#5570563)
Joe Niekro?
   16. DavidFoss Posted: November 03, 2017 at 12:06 PM (#5570568)

Joe Niekro?


Yup.

Niekro, Oswalt, Dierker, Scott, Richard, Ryan, Wilson, Reynolds, Knepper, W-Rod.
   17. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: November 03, 2017 at 12:13 PM (#5570574)
Huh. I didn't remember Niekro pitched that long for the Astros. Probably not coincidentally, he was traded to the Yankees right before I started following baseball.
   18. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: November 03, 2017 at 12:15 PM (#5570578)
Not Wagner? Oswalt probably deserves some recognition somewhere, too.


Oh, yeah. Good point on Wagner.
   19. SoSH U at work Posted: November 03, 2017 at 12:43 PM (#5570596)
Oh, yeah. Good point on Wagner.


Berkman's got to have a place on there somewhere.
   20. Tony S Posted: November 03, 2017 at 04:19 PM (#5570758)

It's true that the Astros have never been particularly strong at catcher -- the best you can do is a hybrid of Alan Ashby's offense and Brad Ausmus' defense. They did have Joe Ferguson for a couple of years, who could at least hit. But they've had some good third basemen -- Doug Rader, Ken Caminiti, Morgan Ensberg. Enos Cabell was overrated, but still a solid player at his best. They had Ray Knight for a few seasons, and he wasn't bad. And Alex Bregman might eclipse them all.

The Astros have enjoyed Joe Morgan, Billy Doran, Craig Biggio and Jose Altuve at second. That's a pretty impressive Mount Rushmore there.

You've got to wonder how different the Astros' history would look like if not for the sudden and unfortunate endings of the careers of J.R. Richard and (effectively) Dickie Thon. It's like having Randy Johnson and Robin Yount stricken down in their primes.

And Joe Niekro didn't make this site's roster, but he deserves recognition for, as mentioned, being the franchise's all-time wins leader, his brilliant post-season performances, and pulling the NL West title out of the fire in the tiebreaker game in 1980 at LA.

I'd work Ken Forsch in there somewhere. He gave the Astros almost a decade of quality relief, and then moved into the rotation and became an effective starter.
   21. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: November 03, 2017 at 05:07 PM (#5570779)
Berkman can be the team chaplain.
   22. Tom Nawrocki Posted: November 03, 2017 at 05:07 PM (#5570780)

You've got to wonder how different the Astros' history would look like if not for the sudden and unfortunate endings of the careers of J.R. Richard and (effectively) Dickie Thon.


Don Wilson, too. The Astros have had their share of tragedy.
   23. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: November 03, 2017 at 05:10 PM (#5570781)
oops
   24. Morty Causa Posted: November 03, 2017 at 07:43 PM (#5570841)
If I remember correctly, Thon had a year where he hit 16 out of 20 home runs on the road. I believe Cruz had a year where he hit 12 of 12 on the road.

I remember in one of the annual abstracts Bill James did a comparison of Cruz's hitting on the road that of Jim Rice and Dale Murphy on the road and found that they were basically equal. But Cruz went home to the Astrodome.
   25. puck Posted: November 03, 2017 at 11:10 PM (#5570877)
Nice that they give Dickie Thon a little love. Playing in an awful hitter's park, he was just entering his own and more when he suffered the career-shattering beaning.


Correa will surpass him if he can avoid the career altering injury. But for now, looks like 1st and 3rd best single season WAR totals are by Thon.

Jose Cruz was quite a good player for them. He always seemed like a key guy. He looks even better by the stats than I thought he would--51.2 WAR in 13 years with the Astros.
   26. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: November 04, 2017 at 12:01 AM (#5570884)
Who's their manager?

Bill Virdon?
Larry Dierker?
A. J. Hinch?
   27. The Yankee Clapper Posted: November 04, 2017 at 12:30 AM (#5570887)
Hmm, team needs a catcher, Biggio has 428 games caught. Seems like a solution

You leave Brad Ausmus off at your own peril, depending on who shows up here.
   28. No longer interested in this website Posted: November 04, 2017 at 03:10 AM (#5570894)
The last players cut were Joe Niekro, Larry Dierker, and Rusty Staub. Jor Morgan could be on the bench too, but I felt Altuve and Biggio had second covered, and they are more beloved in Houston than Little Joe was.
   29. Tony S Posted: November 04, 2017 at 08:51 AM (#5570909)
I would go with Dierker as manager. He won four divisions in five years, and presided over the still-record 102-win season in 1998. His postseason luck was lousy, especially in 1999 (darn Walt Weiss), but as an outstanding Astro pitcher who didn't quite make this roster in that capacity, this would be a great way to work him in.

Never understood why Dierker never got another shot to manage somewhere else.
   30. ajnrules Posted: November 04, 2017 at 11:28 AM (#5570948)
Don Wilson, too. The Astros have had their share of tragedy.

I may be mistaken, but I believe 1996 Astros were the most recent team to have four deceased members.
Andujar Cedeno (1969-2000)
Darryl Kile (1968-2002)
Mark Small (1967-2013)
Anthony Young (1966-2017)
   31. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 04, 2017 at 02:14 PM (#5570985)
Correa will surpass him if he can avoid the career altering injury. But for now, looks like 1st and 3rd best single season WAR totals are by Thon.


Correa is 2, 4, and 5. Correa has 11 WAA, Thon 9.2
   32. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: November 06, 2017 at 03:31 PM (#5571751)
Who's their manager?


Leo Durocher
   33. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: November 06, 2017 at 03:56 PM (#5571773)
I may be mistaken, but I believe 1996 Astros were the most recent team to have four deceased members.

1997 Cubs had three: Frank Castillo, Kevin Foster and Geremi Gonzalez. Anthony Young pitched for the Cubs in 1995, and Rod Beck was acquired in 1998.
   34. Jay Z Posted: November 07, 2017 at 05:44 PM (#5572546)
Re 10:
If you reset all of the trades in baseball before 1972 it is interesting. Because most of the trades were very lopsided in the short term!

Astros also traded away John Mayberry, who could have played 1B instead of May. Astros already led the League in runs, with Morgan the lineup is dynamite. Meanie, Geronimo and Derrell Thomas make for a good bench. Billingham and Scipio Spinks were better than Reuss and Dave Roberts. Only downside is Bill Grief would have to pitch some. But on paper I think they make up the 10 games on the Reds.

Dodgers also get to keep Dick Allen, and the Giants Gaylord, so they are better too. Red Sox probably win AL easy with Lyle. Maybe the Orioles if you let them cut Buford for F Robby.

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