Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Wednesday, January 16, 2013

Will Billy Hamilton be Drew Stubbs V2.0

Hamilton struck out 113 times in 132 games in 2012 in the minor leagues. That number isn’t quite as alarming as Stubb’s 166 strikeouts in 136 games in 2012, but if you consider that Hamilton is striking out that often against minor league pitching, it’s hard to see those numbers improving when he gets to the next level. If Hamilton kept those numbers consistent in the majors as a full-time player, he would end up second on the team in strikeouts per game (Jay Bruce would be the leader based on his averages).

If you have a few minutes you can never get back and enjoy getting angry a bad writing.

Vida Blew Over the Legal Limit Posted: January 16, 2013 at 01:29 PM | 12 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: billy hamilton, reds

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. filihok Posted: January 16, 2013 at 11:04 PM (#4348715)
Bill James projections for Hamilton
.372/.375 (OBP/SLG), 105 stolen bases

A little high, no?
   2. akrasian Posted: January 16, 2013 at 11:42 PM (#4348751)
The Reds would be ecstatic if he hit that projection. I doubt he's close to it, though. With his lack of power and lack of contact, he will have to improve a lot to put up a decent OBP. Now, with his off the charts baserunning, a poor projection might still leave him as an above average offensive player.
   3. Dr. House Posted: January 17, 2013 at 12:04 AM (#4348769)
Yeah, a little.

The Bill James Handbook projections that are built primarily from minor league track records are basically useless. In comparison to projections from in-depth systems (Zips, Steamer, Cairo, Oliver, Pecota, etc), it's obvious that they assume very little penalty in the MiLB to MLB transition. The other systems, while having their variations, have a decent level of agreement with each other showing significantly lower performances for minor leaguers. They simply have much more severe MLE factors.
   4. Walt Davis Posted: January 17, 2013 at 12:32 AM (#4348790)
Bill James projections for Hamilton
.372/.375 (OBP/SLG), 105 stolen bases


Bill James projections for filihok:

242/315/378 with 37 steals

so what are you doing here son? :-)
   5. Rants Mulliniks Posted: January 17, 2013 at 08:30 AM (#4348863)
If you have a few minutes you can never get back and enjoy getting angry a bad writing.


The sentences were longer than what most sportswriters put out, but I don't see what was wrong with that article.
   6. Mike Emeigh Posted: January 17, 2013 at 08:41 AM (#4348868)
Hamilton struck out 113 times in 132 games in 2012 in the minor leagues.


That sounds like a lot of strikeouts for a non-power hitter, but it's really not that bad. Hamilton averaged a K every 4.5 ABs (or if you prefer he made contact in 77.9% of ABs); my rough rule of thumb is that as long as the K rate is better than 1/4 (or contact in at least 75% of ABs) it's acceptable. And while the rate deteriorated in AA, it was still tolerable (1 K/4.09 AB, contact rate of 75.5%). Stubbs, by contrast, had 123 Ks in 470 ABs at three levels in 2008 (one per 3.82 ABs, contact rate of 73.8%) and he was below 75% throughout his minor league career.

I think Hamilton's inability to drive the ball is a more serious concern.

-- MWE
   7. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: January 17, 2013 at 10:17 AM (#4348937)
Hamilton's numbers as a 21 year old are very similar to Vince Coleman's (with a little more power). Coleman was a mediocre hitter and fielder, but was a useful player because of his speed. If Hamilton can turn himself into an average to above average CF and hit like Coleman (90ish OPS+), he'll be a valuable player.
   8. Ron J2 Posted: January 17, 2013 at 04:49 PM (#4349406)
#3 "useless" is an overbid. The specific issue that he used to have is that the competition quality adjustment for AA was a bit too low. Not sure now. Honestly, since good projections have been freely available online I haven't spent a great deal of time looking at the James/STATS projections.

The last time I checked in any great detail was early days of BP. And the James/STATS projections had a noticeably smaller standard error (which prompted BP to change their methodology)

It'd be interesting to track the standard error of the various systems when it comes specifically to rookies. I don't know that anybody's ever looked at that.

One of the problems in projecting Hamilton is that a high portion of his value lies in his walk rate and walk rate is the least stable part of any minor to major transition.
   9. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 17, 2013 at 05:02 PM (#4349417)
That sounds like a lot of strikeouts for a non-power hitter, but it's really not that bad. Hamilton averaged a K every 4.5 ABs (or if you prefer he made contact in 77.9% of ABs); my rough rule of thumb is that as long as the K rate is better than 1/4 (or contact in at least 75% of ABs) it's acceptable. And while the rate deteriorated in AA, it was still tolerable (1 K/4.09 AB, contact rate of 75.5%). Stubbs, by contrast, had 123 Ks in 470 ABs at three levels in 2008 (one per 3.82 ABs, contact rate of 73.8%) and he was below 75% throughout his minor league career.

I think Hamilton's inability to drive the ball is a more serious concern.


Well, those two problems kind of compund each other, don't they? I mean if you can drive the ball, then swing hard, even if you K. But if you can't, you should be adjusting your hitting style to optimize your speed.

Hamilton should be choking up and pounding the ball into the ground and legging them out, or bunting. He should be watching video of Phil Rizzuto and adjusting accordingly.
   10. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 17, 2013 at 05:03 PM (#4349418)
#3 "useless" is an overbid. The specific issue that he used to have is that the competition quality adjustment for AA was a bit too low. Not sure now. Honestly, since good projections have been freely available online I haven't spent a great deal of time looking at the James/STATS projections.

Maybe an overbid, but not by much. IIRC correctly, they have different run environments for offense and defense, i.e. they project MLB to collectively score far more runs than it allows. That kind of basic error moves you pretty close to useless in my book.
   11. . . . . . . . . . . Posted: January 17, 2013 at 05:12 PM (#4349426)
Hamilton should be choking up and pounding the ball into the ground and legging them out, or bunting


"Every time I see you hit one in the air, you owe me twenty pushups."

   12. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 17, 2013 at 05:27 PM (#4349436)
"Every time I see you hit one in the air, you owe me twenty pushups."

I was thinking of Willie Mays Hayes when I wrote that :-) As an added bonus, enough pushups and he might gain the strenght to actually drive the ball.

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
rr
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogOTP 16 Jan. 2017: The ‘honor’ Trumps politics in scheduling Cubs’ White House visit
(2008 - 1:27pm, Jan 22)
Last: BDC

NewsblogChris Russo thinks the latest selections have ruined Hall of Fame
(94 - 1:27pm, Jan 22)
Last: SoSHially Unacceptable

NewsblogGary Sheffield and the war on WAR - Beyond the Box Score
(16 - 1:20pm, Jan 22)
Last: Jose is El Absurd Pollo

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 1-20-2017
(24 - 1:12pm, Jan 22)
Last: GGIAS (aka Poster Nutbag)

NewsblogScott Simkus plays Strat-o-Matic with Negro Leaguers for Slate
(35 - 12:37pm, Jan 22)
Last: Betts, Bogaerts, and D Price(GGC)

NewsblogDave Engle reflects on Ted Williams memories | MLB.com
(1 - 12:16pm, Jan 22)
Last: puck

Sox TherapyThe Kids Are or Are Not Alright
(19 - 12:09pm, Jan 22)
Last: covelli chris p

NewsblogMets' Jay Bruce problem: Ex-GMs weigh in on what team should do - NY Daily News
(2 - 11:02am, Jan 22)
Last: 'Spos

NewsblogHall of Fame's Rule of 10 should be changed | MLB.com
(77 - 9:29am, Jan 22)
Last: DanG

NewsblogMLB Tonight: Jorge Posada | MLB.com
(31 - 9:19am, Jan 22)
Last: Adam Starblind

Hall of Merit2018 Hall of Merit Ballot Discussion
(114 - 9:14am, Jan 22)
Last: Dr. Chaleeko

Newsblog2017 Baseball Hall of Fame election results | MLB.com
(202 - 6:25am, Jan 22)
Last: Fancy Pants with a clinging marmoset on his Handle

NewsblogJayson Stark: Casting my 2018 Hall of Fame ballot ... today
(85 - 4:43am, Jan 22)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogEx-Astro Luis Valbuena reportedly agrees to deal with Angels - Houston Chronicle
(19 - 1:51am, Jan 22)
Last: JAHV

NewsblogOT - December 2016 NBA thread
(1215 - 12:07am, Jan 22)
Last: maccoach57

Page rendered in 0.3617 seconds
47 querie(s) executed